Information Order

July 5, 2012

I may be the only person in the world who does this, but I am having trouble importing / exporting information because of how I store the cache information.

When I enter my waypoints, I want to see a descriptive name displayed on my GPS, not a code. If I'm out exploring a new area, I'm much more inclined to go after something identified on my screen as "Duck Duck Duck Elephant", than I am to look for "GCVF3D". I'm sorry, but a cache code number means absolutely nothing to me and gives me absolutely zero incentive to go after it. I want to be able to say I found "First Creek Falls" because it is in the middle of the desert; that's an incentive!

Is there a way to easily translate the information in a GPX or GDB file to facilitate the information ordering? Before it is suggested, I am trying to use GSAK, but this does not look like one of the features it offers. Actually, that's how this all came about: if I save one of my backup files as a GPX so it can be imported into GSAK, the information is not in the order GSAK is looking for. While I'm still under 100 caches, I've been using my ordering convention for a long time now and I like it. I do want to be able to exchange information with others, though, hence the quest to find a way to do this on the fly, rather than enter all my caches all over again.

Edited July 5, 2012 by PghDragonRider

7.8k · July 5, 2012

...if I save one of my backup files as a GPX so it can be imported into GSAK, the information is not in the order GSAK is looking for.

I've got a lot of questions, so bear with me.

What GPS are you using?

How are you originally creating the caches? Are you manually creating plain waypoints in your GPS, then naming them with the cache name?

In the quoted portion above, you mention "if I save one of my backup files". What's the source of this file? Your GPS, or some other program?

When you do try to load it into GSAK, what exactly happens? The order of caches shouldn't make any difference, so there may be some other problem with the file you're using.

If you do manage to get the caches into GSAK, it will do pretty much anything you want, and a lot more. Loading them into your GPS with the cache name is trivial for GSAK.

8.6k · July 5, 2012

...if I save one of my backup files as a GPX so it can be imported into GSAK, the information is not in the order GSAK is looking for.

I've got a lot of questions, so bear with me.

What GPS are you using?

How are you originally creating the caches? Are you manually creating plain waypoints in your GPS, then naming them with the cache name?

In the quoted portion above, you mention "if I save one of my backup files". What's the source of this file? Your GPS, or some other program?

When you do try to load it into GSAK, what exactly happens? The order of caches shouldn't make any difference, so there may be some other problem with the file you're using.

If you do manage to get the caches into GSAK, it will do pretty much anything you want, and a lot more. Loading them into your GPS with the cache name is trivial for GSAK.

The make/model of GPSr is important. Some are incapable of using/displaying the cache name simply because that data field is not large enough.

Most pre-paperless GPSr units fall into this category.

18.9k · July 5, 2012

GSAK is probably capable of generating the correct output - the real question is - can your unit display it?

7.8k · July 5, 2012

The make/model of GPSr is important. Some are incapable of using/displaying the cache name simply because that data field is not large enough.

Most pre-paperless GPSr units fall into this category.

Yes, knowing the make/model of their GPS will make this discussion easier, but I'm pretty sure they do have a newer, likely paperless GPS. The OP said they change the name of the waypoint to the cache name, and gave an example that is 23 characters long.

6k · July 5, 2012

Actually I think the problem is he is a basic member so only gets loc files. My solution would be to upgrade, then use the GSAK API or PQ's and all,will be well. He says GPX but I don't think he is actually getting that and may be unaware of the limitation.

July 6, 2012

I use the GSAK database to load into my Nuvi 1450 and to my husband's Etrex Venture HC. My Nuvi unit only shows the GC code and his unit shows the actual name of the cache.

3.6k · July 7, 2012

I like using the GSAK, but then again I still have a Garmin 60CSX, so I like putting mine in by waypoint #. I use to do it by name but if you have long titles or series that cut off the last # on it, then that makes no sense. I have been doing that for many years and I can't see going back to the names. For those new you can tell by the waypoint# about how old the cache is.

Someone showed me how to drop the GC and use just the rest.

Then add the type/size/terrain/difficulty.

Example 33333 TM1A

course the first numbers are the waypoint. Then in the example the T= Traditional M=Micro

1(1st spot)= 1 difficulty, A (2nd spot)= 1 1/2 terrain. (1,A,2,B,3,C,4,D,5)

In the note section could be a short hint.

I have another friend who said he can get more characters in and I'm hoping to figure that one out.

Edited July 7, 2012 by jellis

3.7k · July 7, 2012

Like jellis, I'm also still using a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx, and I use GSAK and love it. It can slice, dice, and export data any way you like, assuming you have GPX data and your GPSr can support what GSAK sends it. (Your account says Basic Member, which means you wouldn't get GPX files, only LOC, which don't contain all the data.)

- I use Smart Names for the cache name, so I always see some form of the cache name (abbreviated to 12 characters, the limit my GPSr can display). Current names in the cache list on my GPS include CoulonIsland, OldSnags, xNumbers (I use x in the User Data field to indicate solved puzzles and then make that part of the cache name).

- In the Note field on my GPSr (which also has a character limit), I have: GC#, type, size, D/T, and hider. For Coulon Island (mentioned above), the Notes field says: "GC2DN37 T M 3.5/1.5 mc3cats". Hints are often too long, so I use the app on my iPhone if I need to look them up (if I need the hint, I often want to look at the cache page and/or previous logs, anyway).

Hope that helps!

Edited July 7, 2012 by hydnsek

19k · July 7, 2012

Read about GSAK's "Special Tags" on their website. As others have already pointed out, you will need .GPX files and a GPS that can handle the extended information first, however.

9.2k · July 7, 2012

GSAK.

Look at 'Smart Names' under the Special Tags.

2.1k · July 8, 2012

Spinner will give you a file with name abbreviations and it will give you a data file for a PDA if you use one for paperless caching. I use Spinner for cache names for our Nuvi and for when we use the Map60s.

July 8, 2012

I've got a lot of questions, so bear with me.

What GPS are you using?

How are you originally creating the caches? Are you manually creating plain waypoints in your GPS, then naming them with the cache name?

In the quoted portion above, you mention "if I save one of my backup files". What's the source of this file? Your GPS, or some other program?

When you do try to load it into GSAK, what exactly happens? The order of caches shouldn't make any difference, so there may be some other problem with the file you're using.

If you do manage to get the caches into GSAK, it will do pretty much anything you want, and a lot more. Loading them into your GPS with the cache name is trivial for GSAK.

I had no idea this would generate so much interest.

I using a Garmin 60csx.

Yes, I am using Cut 'n' Paste to ensure I get the coords correct, but manual entry pretty much describes the process since I am not importing files.

I backup from the GPS to a drive,

Oh, I have no problem bringing the file into GSAK. It is not the order of the caches, but the order of the fields within the file that I want to change.

I hunt by cache NAME not CODE, so the name is what is displayed on the GPS screen and the name is what shows in GSAK for cache code information.

Edited July 8, 2012 by PghDragonRider

July 8, 2012

Actually I think the problem is he is a basic member so only gets loc files. My solution would be to upgrade, then use the GSAK API or PQ's and all,will be well. He says GPX but I don't think he is actually getting that and may be unaware of the limitation.

Sorry, but membership level is not the issue here, Information field ordering is. I am getting all the information I need.

July 8, 2012

I use the GSAK database to load into my Nuvi 1450 and to my husband's Etrex Venture HC. My Nuvi unit only shows the GC code and his unit shows the actual name of the cache.

Aha! this is more along the lines of issue I'm trying to describe.

When I load the information into the 60csx, I make the cache name visible and the cache code is in the comments field. If I create a GPX from the data stored in my 60csx, the data does not match the field name.

July 8, 2012

Thanks for all the help you are all posting. I am intrigued by the posts talking about "smart tags". I may need to look into that.

Yeah, I have what is now an "old school" gps, the Garmin 60csx. I love it and have no desire to replace it! As for paperless caching, how much more paperless can you get than having a GPS with the coords and nothing else ? Traveling on Dragonback, papers tend to blow around too much, so I don't take paper with me and as for a PDA . . . well, I have enough of a time keeping one eye on the GPS and the other on where I'm heading. Once I get near where the cache is, or as close as I can fly in, I tether my Dragon and let the GPS guide me from there.

Clues? I'll read a full description before heading out. If I don't remember everything, I guess that makes the find all the sweeter when I do find it. Speaking personally, for me it is more about the hunt, not so much the treasure. Geocaching is an excuse to go somewhere I've never been before. I've had so much fun going to a city I've never been to before and exploring something other than the hotel bar . . . but I do tend to work up a thirst caching !

2.1k · July 8, 2012

Yeah, I have what is now an "old school" gps, the Garmin 60csx. I love it and have no desire to replace it! As for paperless caching...

We have a special fondness in our hearts for our "old" 60CS (no X). Hardly seems fair to call it old or old school when it was soooooooo good to us for the six years it was the workhorse. We even bought second one, used, for $40 so we would each have one in hand... and then along came Colorado.

I think I understand your method of caching and I don't want to discourage you from a system that, in itself, is a rewarding part of the game for you. At some future date you might find that you want more cache data at hand for caching farther afield and over a longer period of time than memorized pages are practical. It is a lot of fun to be able to read cache descriptions and especially log entries while at ground zero or before committing to a long side trip.

The Colorado and 62 series are so easy to load cache pages into and you don't have to do anything to get cache names instead of gc numbers. Used and refurbished Colorados must be quite reasonably priced now since the 62 came out. I saw referbs for $187 two years ago. Used ones must be very reasonable.

Anyway, just some thoughts to file away for some future amusement.

July 9, 2012

We have a special fondness in our hearts for our "old" 60CS (no X). Hardly seems fair to call it old or old school when it was soooooooo good to us for the six years it was the workhorse. We even bought second one, used, for $40 so we would each have one in hand... and then along came Colorado.

I think I understand your method of caching and I don't want to discourage you from a system that, in itself, is a rewarding part of the game for you. At some future date you might find that you want more cache data at hand for caching farther afield and over a longer period of time than memorized pages are practical. It is a lot of fun to be able to read cache descriptions and especially log entries while at ground zero or before committing to a long side trip.

The Colorado and 62 series are so easy to load cache pages into and you don't have to do anything to get cache names instead of gc numbers. Used and refurbished Colorados must be quite reasonably priced now since the 62 came out. I saw referbs for $187 two years ago. Used ones must be very reasonable.

Anyway, just some thoughts to file away for some future amusement.

Thanks, Sagefox, for sharing my fondness for the 60cs series. I'm not from New England but I subscribe to that old Yankee maxim: "Buy it new, wear it out, fix it up, make it do". That is one of my reasons for holding onto my 60csx: it works and does everything I ask it to, be it caching, hiking, traveling on Dragonback or whatever. I just returned it to Garmin (first time since I had it) for an out of warranty overhaul. My replacement (guess they could not fix it) should be here today. Can't argue with a 6 year uninterrupted service record! The price for the repair was a quarter of the cost of new 450t and I can't see much difference in the specs that matter between the 450t and the 60csx, so I'd have to say the repair cost was well worth it.

But, I digress . . .

I guess it comes down to caching style and personal preferences. I am no where as good as a lot of other cachers out there (6 years or so and only 90 finds), but I do enjoy the hunt. I prepare myself as best as I can by studying the field where I'm heading, but it all comes down to the accuracy of the GPS for getting you close enough and your skill at spotting the hide. If I can't remember all the details, I guess that's my fault, but it still bound to make a great story, even if I don't find the cache.

Keep caching and keep enjoying the trip!

3.2k · July 9, 2012

I use the GSAK database to load into my Nuvi 1450 and to my husband's Etrex Venture HC. My Nuvi unit only shows the GC code and his unit shows the actual name of the cache.

Aha! this is more along the lines of issue I'm trying to describe.

When I load the information into the 60csx, I make the cache name visible and the cache code is in the comments field. If I create a GPX from the data stored in my 60csx, the data does not match the field name.

I load caches into my 78S and my nüvi 760. Both give me the full cache information. I'm a premium member so I get .GPX files from pocket queries rather than .LOC files which don't contain all the information.

When I drop my pocket query into GSAK I get ALL of the information.

In my opinion .LOC files suck hard.

July 9, 2012

I load caches into my 78S and my nüvi 760. Both give me the full cache information. I'm a premium member so I get .GPX files from pocket queries rather than .LOC files which don't contain all the information.

When I drop my pocket query into GSAK I get ALL of the information.

In my opinion .LOC files suck hard.

I think you missed that I'm not importing from GPX or LOC files. This is an EXPORT problem based on how I choose to store the information in my GPS. I load the information manually, using cut 'n' paste to ensure accurate information input. When I put the information in, I use the Cache Name, not the Cache Code, as the primary reference. I put the Cache Code in the Comments field for retrieval when I log my find on the Geocaching.com website.

I'm putting in all the information I want, (Cache Name, Cache Code and maybe a short description of the cache type). I really don't care who placed the cache nor do I care about any of the other information that comes along with the full download files. I'll update my comments with the find date, but that's about all the information I want to track. Not being a programmer, I'm looking for a simple utility to parse the information I do have and rearrange the data to match the output found in a GPX file for the sake of easy exchange of data with other people since GPX is apparently the format of choice.

It's sort of like I usually store my graphics files in an AI format, because I work a lot with Illustrator. If I'm going to share that graphic with other people, however, I need to put it in a more common format, such as JPG. Same graphic, different format; same GPS data, different data format.

Edited July 9, 2012 by PghDragonRider

July 9, 2012

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you are after, but maybe this will help. I wanted to jam as much info as possible into my 60CSx's limited space, so I made a custom GSAK macro:

http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6315

Much of that may not apply to you, but it's an example of how to use GSAK to do some work for you.

July 12, 2012

Here's a little piece of trivia unrelated to the original post: basic members can download GPX files, one at a time. The cache descriptions all read "If you were a Premium Member, there would be a description here."

14k · July 12, 2012

Here's a little piece of trivia unrelated to the original post: basic members can download GPX files, one at a time. The cache descriptions all read "If you were a Premium Member, there would be a description here."

Interesting. I'm not a basic member so I can't test this but what does it use for all the other elements available in a GPX file that are not included in a .loc (i.e. D/T ratings, size, etc)?

This would probably never fly, but I wonder how much trouble it would be for GS to abandon the .loc format entirely and make waypoints available using GPX files for basic members, but without the Groundspeak extensions....or is that what one gets when a GPX file is downloaded one at a time?

July 12, 2012

Interesting. I'm not a basic member so I can't test this but what does it use for all the other elements available in a GPX file that are not included in a .loc (i.e. D/T ratings, size, etc)?

Name, owner, D/T and size are there. The description and hints are boilerplate (I gave a paraphrase above). Logs are not there. I don't know what else may be missing. I think the big disadvantage is having to download one at a time.

1k · July 12, 2012

I would prefer seeing the name of a cache in the waypoint list as well, but even paperless devices would probably truncate most names to a length too short to be useful. Since I don't have a paperless device, I match the GC code of a waypoint to the one on a printout or on another device.

July 13, 2012

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you are after, but maybe this will help. I wanted to jam as much info as possible into my 60CSx's limited space, so I made a custom GSAK macro:

http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6315

Much of that may not apply to you, but it's an example of how to use GSAK to do some work for you.

Thank you! Yeah, that's close to what I'm talkin' about. I will have to do more research into Smart Tags and GSAK. This is an excellent workaround for what I want to do.

19k · July 13, 2012

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you are after, but maybe this will help. I wanted to jam as much info as possible into my 60CSx's limited space, so I made a custom GSAK macro:

http://mngca.org/for...opic.php?t=6315

Much of that may not apply to you, but it's an example of how to use GSAK to do some work for you.

I wasn't aware of the %macro flag. Sweet!!

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