Gargoyles category

[+lumbricus]

Hi,

 

the gargoyles category is declining waymarks with the reason:

 

"I'm sorry but we are getting away from accepting non traditional gargoyles."

 

The category description says nothing about this.

 

There is only one active officer. He sends the waymarks to the officer vote, he is the only one who is voting. So the waymarks will be declined.

 

I wrote him:

 

"Hi,

...The category description is important for reviewing a waymark.

The description in the gargoyles category says nothing about getting away from something.

Sending waymarks to officer votes make no sence if you are the only active officer in this category for years.

Suggestion:

Make me to an officer and we could work on the category description.

Kind regards,

lumbricus"

 

No answer.

 

All the work you put in Gargoyles/Chimeras which are not "traditional" is for nothing. (That bothers me)

 

Regards,

lumbricus

[+Max and 99]

Hi,

 

the gargoyles category is declining waymarks with the reason:

 

"I'm sorry but we are getting away from accepting non traditional gargoyles."

 

The category description says nothing about this.

 

There is only one active officer. He sends the waymarks to the officer vote, he is the only one who is voting. So the waymarks will be declined.

 

I wrote him:

 

"Hi,

...The category description is important for reviewing a waymark.

The description in the gargoyles category says nothing about getting away from something.

Sending waymarks to officer votes make no sence if you are the only active officer in this category for years.

Suggestion:

Make me to an officer and we could work on the category description.

Kind regards,

lumbricus"

 

No answer.

 

All the work you put in Gargoyles/Chimeras which are not "traditional" is for nothing. (That bothers me)

 

Regards,

lumbricus

 

I totally agree with you. We as waymarkers count on the category description to know what will be accepted.

[+mTn_biKer65]

I just realized Chimeras were usable as gargoyles earlier today so I drafted a waymark and am just waiting on a picture before submitting. Looks like I might in line for a decline.

 

mTn_biKer65

[+lumbricus]

It bothers me that i have to wait about another month because the single officer who voted the group vote (alone) doesn't log in again -> That means that my decline pins.

[+fi67]

Just a detail: When you approve a submission, you are listed as a approver in the waymark. But when you deny one, you are doing this in the name of the group, your name will not appear anywhere else than on the Past Activity tab of the group page. This officer has not called any vote. This is why I always sign my denials, so the submitter can contact me for clarification. On the other hand it always bugs me to receive anonymous denials without clear reasons. So I would advice to do the same.

 

And it helps staying polite when your name is associated.

[+Max and 99]

A single waymarker should not be running a category. Period.

[+lumbricus]

The Gargoyles are back in action.

 

Some questions for the future of the category.

 

The officer who reviewed waymarks the last months, declined the following waymarks (and some more):

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMDE59_Residential_Gargoyles_Lewisburg_Ohio

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMC698_University_Auditorium_Grotesques_Gainesville_FL

 

1. Should we create a new category for the "Chimeras" (Neidkopf)

They are totaly different to the Gargoyles.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neidkopf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28architecture%29

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMBHJA_St_Marys_Church_Woughton_on_the_Green_MK_Bucks

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM3VXX_All_Saints_Church_Wing_Bucks_Gargoyle_and_Chimera

 

2. The Gargoyles are "carved stone grotesque, usually made of granite,[1] with a spout designed to convey water from a roof and away from the side of a building thereby preventing rainwater from running down masonry walls and eroding the mortar between." Wikipedia

 

These were aproved in the category the last month. (The typical Gargoyles)

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM8B5X_St_Michaels_Church_Chenies_Bucks

 

3. What are we doing with the statues everyone would call "Gargoyle" like this one:

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMDE59_Residential_Gargoyles_Lewisburg_Ohio

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WME45T_Chimera_Wasserburg_Lk_Rosenheim_Bayern_D

 

They are not the real Gargoyles, they are not Chimeras.

 

Should we split something or should we hold all together?

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

lumbricus

[+prussel]

as this are very similar (fantastic, mythical or grotesque figures) and often had the same function, it would be a good idea to add chimeras

[+DougK]

I think the essence of gargoyles is that they act as a conveyance for water away from a roof or somewhere.

 

The waymarks you show look like they would fit in Figurative Public Sculptures or Epic Beings and Creatures.

[+fi67]

I think the interesing aspect of these gargoyles is their appearance, not the function which is quite simple. From this point of view chimeras fit nicely into the category.

[+lumbricus]

http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMBHJA_St_Marys_Church_Woughton_on_the_Green_MK_Bucks

 

http://www.Waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=c97c8231-8d42-49bc-bf1c-0f97d70cc7f9

 

Very similar? Not really.

[+silverquill]

Gargoyles. Okay, what the category needs is a clear and precise definition. If some types will be accepted and some declined, that is necessary. If the definition is vague or broader, then the criteria for acceptance need to be correspondingly broad. I prefer a more inclusive policy. One of the reasons is that this is a global experience. There are different types of figures that might be called gargoyles in different parts of the world. The mythical animal-like figures in Asia, for instance, might not fit a narrow definition of gargoyle, but are similar.

 

When these types of exclusions are made, the only options available are leaving the waymark homeless or trying to create parallel categories for them. Neither one is a particularly good option. We have examples of categories created to cover something arbitrarily excluded. Some of them work well; some are mere shadows.

 

Sometimes the restrictions are illogical and inconsistent. I'm think of veteran and war memorials. There is a category for about every major, and a few minor, war. Some will accept waymarks for memorials for a particular war that are part of a large memorial, and some exclude these. I can never remember which have these exclusions.

 

In regard to the management of the category, it is unfortunate that a single individual has apparently taken it upon himself to make subjective decisions about the category that seem contrary to the category description. Absolute consistency is difficult, but making these kinds of changes is not good for anyone. This is especially irksome if the actual description and posting instructions are the same. Unfortunately I know of no solution other than trying to reason with the person involved, if you can determine who that is.

[+lumbricus]

Thanks SQ!

I'm now the leader of the category. We could do all changes the community wants to have.

If we know what we want, i will rewrite the description.

I did this in a very short form already.

I'm not sure if we should accept statues which everyone would descripe as a gargoyle, (without function, no water, only statue). Should we decline them with the please to resubmit to the figurative statues category or should we accept them.

[+fi67]

You should include chimeras, or whatever they are called when we extend it to other cultures.

 

Insisting on the narrow definition of a gargoyle does not make much sense, IMHO. Is it the water tube that is the most interesting part and the reason to waymark it? Definitively not.

 

Gargoyle, chimera, babewyn, neidkopf, mascaron and maybe some more; they are all members of one family and belong together.

[+a1elec]

The water tube IMHO would make it a form of a fountain and as such it could be listed in the fountain category. However Gargoyle's and the like also adorn buildings as spiritual or cultural additions to a building and therefore do not have water spurting from them.

 

This is only one opinion

[+silverquill]

I'll try to post some examples from Korea. Maybe Ian has some from SE Asia. I'll be in touch. (I can't see where a water spout should be a requirement).

[+Ianatlarge]

No gargoyles as such in sea, however, there are monsters in abundance. The most common are Naga, giant serpents guarding Buddhist temples. There is a chimeric like creature that has the appearance and attributes of several animals: lion, dog, snake—it varies. These are usually found only in northern Thailand, which has a different cultural background. Plus, lions and elephants, though I don't consider these to be monsters. Of course, many of my ex-pat colleagues would consider their ex-wives to be in this category ho ho ho.

 

I will post some pics tomorrow for everyones edification and delectation.

[+Ianatlarge]

Some monsters from Thailand.

 

A variety of monsters guarding a shrine.

 

A Naga--note the bird sitting serenely atop the giant snake!

 

I am not sure just who this chap it, but I don't want to meet him any time soon.

 

A chimeric snake and elephant, plus a Singha lion.

 

A chimeric lion and chicken.

 

A dragon, everyone likes dragons.

 

The most dangerous creature.

 

A Cambodian Angkor Wat style Naga.

 

Another style of Thai Naga.

 

These chaps also guard Buddhist temples.

[+fi67]

These are all very impressive creatures, but I do not see the relation to gargoyles.

 

Whatever we come up with in the end - chimeras and other beasts included or not - gargoyles are on the outside of buildings, at the wall or the roof; not in front of, not inside and not stand alone sculptures. Some of your examples might qualify, but the view point does not let us see the building.

[+lumbricus]

Great pics Ian!

For the "The most dangerous creature." the girl looks very sweet

 

Fi67 wrote:

"...- chimeras and other beasts included or not - gargoyles are on the outside of buildings, at the wall or the roof; not in front of, not inside and not stand alone sculptures..."

 

Sounds like a good description!

[+Ddraig Ddu]

Its one of those odd things that what almost everyone would call a gargoyle is infact wrong. I had a couple declined originally as id called them gargoyles. When i resent them as grotesques or chimera they were acepted in.

[+Max and 99]

Yes, I'm reviving a 9-year-old category discussion thread. I'm thinking the people who participated in this discussion would be the best people to possibly answer my question. 

According to a news story this is a grotesque owl. Does anybody have any idea what those numbers behind the owl could mean? I suppose it could be related to the building, but I'm more inclined to think there's a reason it's behind the owl. I'm clueless. 

Edit: I was hoping the historical marker might have a number I can match to that but it did not.

https://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/wm8AGG_Monnet_Hall_University_of_Oklahoma_Norman_Oklahoma

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Max and 99

[+ScroogieII]

On 1/10/2022 at 9:36 AM, Max and 99 said:

I'm clueless. 

 

First, one should make every attempt to avoid making such statements in public. They tend to result in people such as myself removing the context and responding with inane replies, such as "Which I'd suspected all along".   

 

Anyhow, 99, is there any chance we could get a better look at those digits? I see, I think, 677, and suspect that there are more.

There wasn't much happening yet in OK in 1677, at least from a non-native paradigm, so that's not not likely to be the answer.

As well, I see what may be the end of a further line of text below the numbers.

Keith

Edit:

It's only about 30 miles south of you, so here's what you could do:

Throw a long ladder in the car, drive down to the U of OK, climb up to that grotesque owl and grab a few pix of its backside.

Heck, it's no further away from you than is Yukon. 

BTW, is the owl at the Oklahoma Weather Lab (OWL)

Edited January 14, 2022 by ScroogieII

[+PISA-caching]

I love those kinds of riddles and although I doubt that I can be very helpful, I wanted to let you know what I found out:

 

Looking for another photo of the owl I used: https://www.google.com/search?q=university+norman+owl+oklahoma&tbm=isch There I found one photo of the owl in question, but the article to which the photo belonged ("Gargoyles dying off in Oklahoma City,...") doesn't exist anymore. Nevertheless I once again used google to search for the article's title (gargoyles dying off in oklahoma city but the university of oklahoma campus-is-crawling-with-them - Google Suche) and I see the following snippet:

 

Gargoyles dying off in Oklahoma City, but the University of Oklahoma campus is crawling with them. It's a gargoyle graveyard. ... "Urban renewal took all that out," said Lynda Ozan, architecture historian with the Oklahoma Historical Society's State Historic Preservation Office.31.10.2015

 

So, maybe you can find that Lynda Ozan. Being an architecture historian, she might have some valueable information.

 

[+Max and 99]

42 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:

but the article to which the photo belonged ("Gargoyles dying off in Oklahoma City,...") doesn't exist anymore.

https://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/wm15GTQ_Gargoyles_dying_off_in_Oklahoma_City_but_the_University_of_Oklahoma_campus_is_crawling_with_them_Norman_OK

 

Yes I've contacted the OU architecture department already but haven't yet heard back. 

[+ScroogieII]

"Gargoyles dying off in Oklahoma City"

I'm surprised that Greenpeace isn't all over this one!

Keith

[+PISA-caching]

Maybe a stupid question, but is it possible, that they are greek letters? The "6" is not completely visible, and could be a Delta and the two "7"s could be Gamma's. I have no idea about fraternities and sororities, but they have those letters as their names, no? So, maybe it was a dare from one of their members? Just another idea.

Just look at the small letters at The Greek alphabet • pickedshares Engineering Tools

Edited January 19, 2022 by PISA-caching

[+ScroogieII]

Well, Andreas, you just keep thinking "outside of the box". I like that. It could lead us to the answer.

Somehow, though, I feel that those "figures" are numbers. Looking at the enlarged pic, the "7"s remain "7"s, the previous character I'm not going to guess at.

Mebbe if we looked at their style, their font, we could at least place a date on them.

 

How does that go? A riddle, inside a mystery, wrapped up in an enigma?

Edited January 19, 2022 by ScroogieII

[+ScroogieII]

OK Andreas, I'll play.

This takes me back to an episode of Corner Gas, the "Grad '68" episode, in which Hank was party to painting their graduation year on the town's water tower. He was dangled upside down from the top of the tower and, while upside down, painted, "89", which, when seen from the ground was  "68".

But that was Hank.

 

Could this be another example of an upside down painter, with the blood rushing to his head and near to passing out, drawing a "7" in place of a "Γ", inadvertently reversing horizontality instead of verticality?

Edited January 19, 2022 by ScroogieII