Puzzle Cache Frustration

[+Ry Dawg]

Don't judge me. All these puzzle caches confuse me. How do you even know where to start? It makes no sense. Especially the ones that don't say anything about the cache, just how easy it is to solve, without any information at all? It's really starting to take the fun out of the game when I see them popping up all over. It's making me not even want to go out and cache when I see them everywhere and can't make sense of it. </rant>

Edited October 12, 2011 by shotgun86

[+Team Hugs]

I'm relatively new to this, but am finding puzzle caches to be quite fun.

 

One thing I'm learning: often, the pages for puzzle caches have clues embedded on them. Seemingly innocent things like the name of the cache, or a seemingly unknown symbol or word or phrase in the description itself, are actually valuable clues.

 

I haven't solved every puzzle cache I've tried ... but after you solve a couple, you may start to see the idea.

 

A couple of times, I've gotten so obsessed by a particular puzzle cache that I contacted the cache owner. They were kind enough to offer gentle hints that allowed me to solve the puzzle without givin the whole thing away.

 

Anyways ... hang in there. Good luck.

[+EdrickV]

It helps if you've played online puzzle games like the famous Notpron. (Preferably with the help of friends.) In some cases the use of extra programs may be helpful. Every single thing, from the title, to the text on the page, down to the hint could be a clue in multiple ways. (Even seemingly useless hints might actually be a real hint.) That said, there are caches I've seen where I also have no clue where to start. There have also been puzzle caches where I was able to figure out the puzzle without too much trouble. (One puzzle, to an archived cache I never got to go search for, wasn't that hard to figure out but did require time to get all the info. On that one Wikipedia and tabbed browsing were very helpful.)

[+Ry Dawg]

Thanks for the responses y'all. I wanted to get out my frustrations without offending any cache owners, as they are obviously very thought out and planned puzzles. I just would like to know how to get into them. I don't know what Notpron is. I'm not the most computer savvy person in the world though. If anybody has a minute, I will send GC codes of a few caches that confuse me and others have found easy. Just to get an opinion. I believe once I find a starting point on some, it may be less frustrating for me. But we shall see!

Edited October 12, 2011 by shotgun86

[+CanadianRockies]

All these puzzle caches confuse me. How do you even know where to start?

A good place to begin might be ePeterson2's Puzzle Solving 101 Series. As well, here's a fairly extensive list of puzzle solving resources.

[+Ry Dawg]

All these puzzle caches confuse me. How do you even know where to start?

A good place to begin might be ePeterson2's Puzzle Solving 101 Series. As well, here's a fairly extensive list of puzzle solving resources.

 

Thank you for the links! I will give them a go. I probably won't be in the area to "log" them, but assuming it helps me figure them out, that would be awesome!

[+EdrickV]

I may actually have figured out the puzzle on GC1ENJ5. Way out of my area so logging it is kinda out of the question, at least for now. (Would have been nice if the CO had used a coordinate checker service.) So I will just say this: Do not overlook anything. The one thing you ignore might well be the thing you need to solve the puzzle. Look at every single thing as a possible clue.

[+Ry Dawg]

{{edited to remove any clues to the cache}}

Edited October 12, 2011 by shotgun86

[+WarNinjas]

I'm with the OP however I have not spent a lot of time trying to figure them out. I think it will be a fun new part of the game when I get around to it. I would never let it stop me from wanting to cache though.

- WarNinjas

[+EdrickV]

Some puzzle caches may not be hard to do, but may require doing calculations in the field or doing them at home and making a second trip. Like this one:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC2YM0G

 

I've got an app for my phone that will help with caches like that one. Though I haven't gotten the chance to really test it out yet. The only puzzle cache I've attempted to find, I have the coordinates but DNF'd the container.

[+Ry Dawg]

I'm with the OP however I have not spent a lot of time trying to figure them out. I think it will be a fun new part of the game when I get around to it. I would never let it stop me from wanting to cache though.

- WarNinjas

 

You're right. I would still cache. I worded that poorly; what I meant to explain was when I am going to a new area, and it's flooded with puzzles I cannot start, and maybe only one or two "regulars", it detours me away from that specific area of caching.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I was going to say ask the CO as often CO's will be willing to give you a nudge in the right direction.

 

However, from the ones you listed, these are my issues with the COs:

 

#1 Refuses to give help

#2 Has promised to delete your log if you stumble on his cache by accident

#3 In one of them, own't even tell you the cache size

#4 No geochecker

 

Personally, I would spend a bit of time trying to solve, ask some of the previous finders and if still not able, would put these caches on my ignore list.

 

The only thing that jumps out at me with these puzzles is to look at the titles. If you use your keyboard and/or phone, letters/symbols can equal numbers. Or maybe you have to go to the coordinates and something there will clue you in.

Edited October 12, 2011 by The_Incredibles_

[+Sol seaker]

It's considered bad form to ask about specific puzzles, so I didn't look at the puzzles you offered.

 

I've had a lot of trouble working puzzle caches too.

I've worked some of the caches in that series someone else mentioned, even though I'll never find the caches. The puzzles have been helpful.

 

I've tried to start out with the easy ones. Look at the difficulty rating.

The more of them I work, the more I learn how to work, so start with the easy ones and work your way up.

 

Cache owners usually give clues, especially if you email them with the work you've done in solving it already. If you haven't even tried, some won't give you a clue, but if you tell them everything you've tried already and how much time you've spent on it (if applicable) then they'll usually give a hint.

 

As someone mentioned, look at everything on the cache page.

Right click on the photos. Check out the information you find there.

Look at the cache name.

Look at the name of who placed the cache. Check if it's their real name (by clicking on it).

Look at the attributes, do they make sense? (once I saw a puzzle cache that had "farm animals" and camping, as attributes in the middle of a big city).

Highlight the page looking for hidden (white) text.

Sometimes the place that the coordinates are placed will hold a clue to find the final.

Google anything you see on the page.

 

Work the puzzle series that was mentioned before, no matter where you live. You don't have to find the final.

 

And last but not least...

 

We really don't have to find them all. Ignore the ones you can't do for now. Later as you get better at puzzles you can go back to them. Don't let it ruin your game. Have fun finding what you can. Learn to ignore.

[+Ry Dawg]

Thanks for all the responses. A lot of good advice was given here today, and I am less confused on where to begin. I am new to this genre of caches. I don't really know any local cachers in my area, as I was introduced to geocaching through an out of state cousin. Thanks for the willingness to help.

[+bflentje]

It's considered bad form to ask about specific puzzles, so I didn't look at the puzzles you offered.

 

HUGE STINKING

[+Team Pixos]

Edrickv

 

What app do you have and what phone is it fir?

[+thebruce0]

For iPhone, there's iGCT which does field calculations, but for puzzle solving, any number of apps could provide tools for various types of puzzles.

 

I'm maintaining a web page that lists a whole bunch of puzzle-y/encoding/encrypting tools and references at http://ref.wikibruce.com if that's any help; they're all bookmarks to other websites and tools for now.

 

You could look into the "ARG Tools" app as well, which has a number of in-app conversion and decryption functions for easy cut and paste.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Don't judge me. All these puzzle caches confuse me. How do you even know where to start? It makes no sense.

<snip for brevity>

It's making me not even want to go out and cache when I see them everywhere and can't make sense of it. </rant>

Some people enjoy puzzles. You obviously are not one of those people. The solution is simple: don't do puzzle caches. Go find the kinds of caches that you enjoy, and ignore any puzzles that pop up in your area.

[+niraD]

Here are some general puzzle tips (based in part on a puzzle-solving class event presented by The Rat a while ago):

 

Identify the theme. Check the cache title, the hint, the HTML source, the graphics (including names/URLs), any links (including URLs), whatever is at the posted coordinates, etc. If you can figure out the theme, then you should look for numbering systems that are associated with that theme (zip codes, athletes’ jersey numbers, episode numbers, product codes, etc.).

 

Around here, coordinates will have 15 digits, and will look like "N 37° xx.xxx W 122° xx.xxx". So when I'm solving a nearby puzzle, I look for a group of 15 things, and then I look for ways to get the digits 37xxxxx122xxxxx from them. In general, I look for ways to get the number 37 (or the digits 3 and 7) from something near the beginning of the puzzle, and the number 122 (or the digits 1, 2, and 2) from something near the middle of the puzzle. (Of course, you'll need to adjust this for the coordinates near you.)

 

Other useful resources include:

Puzzle Solving 101 Series (bookmark list)

Puzzle Shortcuts Series (bookmark list)

Solving Puzzle Caches (online article)

How Do I Solve All These $@! Puzzle Caches? (tutorial-style puzzle cache)

Puzzle FUNdamentals (archived event cache) and the Puzzle FUNdamentals resources on the GeocacheAlaska! education page

The GBA's Puzzle Cache FAQ (for puzzle designers, but useful for understanding how puzzle caches work)

[+kunarion]

Don't judge me. All these puzzle caches confuse me. How do you even know where to start? It makes no sense. Especially the ones that don't say anything about the cache, just how easy it is to solve, without any information at all?</rant>

I know what you mean. I'd like to know in advance it's at least an intriguing or elegant puzzle, not merely a whole lot of tedious decoding. I usually wait til a co-cacher writes to ask if I've solved a particular puzzle (which he's solved already) -- he knows even I could probably figure it out . Maybe you could stick with puzzle caches that have lots of Favorites or good comments about the puzzle itself.

 

I get the impression you'd like to try your hand at solving them, but get frustrated. In most cases, the Cache Owners will give a little nudge, or even offer the exact coords. To the guy who made the puzzle, it probably looked a whole lot easier to do.

 

Some COs make puzzle caches to thwart cache thieves. I made one just because it might get visited less (with the intention that it may keep the quality high, and make maintenance less of a problem).

Edited October 12, 2011 by kunarion

[+Team Pixos]

Bruce thanks for the link

 

And all the other information thank you all

 

This is a wealth of information

[+Ry Dawg]

 

I get the impression you'd like to try your hand at solving them, but get frustrated. In most cases, the Cache Owners will give a little nudge, or even offer the exact coords. To the guy who made the puzzle, it probably looked a whole lot easier to do.

 

This is exactly right. I want to try them, but just don't understand. I don't want to ignore my local caches, I want to learn how to do them.

 

I'm glad I've had mostly support in this forum to lead me in the right direction, so I can try to start this.

 

Thanks!

[+EdrickV]

Edrickv

 

What app do you have and what phone is it fir?

 

I've got PGCT which is for Windows Mobile 5.x/6.x devices. (It inspired the iPhone's iGCT app.) I'm sure there are apps for Android too, but don't know anything about them.

[+JL_HSTRE]

All these puzzle caches confuse me. How do you even know where to start? It makes no sense. Especially the ones that don't say anything about the cache, just how easy it is to solve, without any information at all? It's really starting to take the fun out of the game when I see them popping up all over. It's making me not even want to go out and cache when I see them everywhere and can't make sense of it.

 

If you don't like puzzles then just don't try to solve them and ignore those caches. They are really easy to filter out - they're an entire seperate cache type with their own icon.

 

I enjoy some puzzles and some I do not enjoy. If I find a puzzle that not only baffles me about where to begin much less how to solve it then I just put it on my Ignore list and never have to look at it again.

[+Team Pixos]

Thanks, I geocache with my iPhone 4, I surf the net with it too

 

Sounds like if I want to learn puzzles I need to sit at an actual computer to see hidden things

 

I have the igct I just don't know how to use it.

[+Corfman Clan]

Edrickv

 

What app do you have and what phone is it fir?

 

I've got PGCT which is for Windows Mobile 5.x/6.x devices. (It inspired the iPhone's iGCT app.) I'm sure there are apps for Android too, but don't know anything about them.

For Android, there's the GeoCache Calculator or GCC.

[+jellis]

Best way I do them is start with 1 difficulty ratings and work your way up. Play around with some of the ideas mentioned. I was shocked one day when I played with a high difficulty one and it all came together. Went and found the cache (which I was STF)and logged it. Then I was bombarded by experienced cachers asking how I solved it. My answer? I told them that this type of puzzle just happened to involved something I did for a living for 20 years and I just happened to have the program that helped. And pure luck to notice it.

[+popokiiti]

After half an hour of head scratching on my first, I held the left click down and moved the mouse...and the coords appeared! We used paper printouts back then - I printed the cache page...and the coords were there. If only I had printed straight away, I'd have saved some time.

Another one I solved by counting the letters in the words, and the third was to do with airports/their code/runway shown at certain coords on Google Earth. That was a great one for a plane lover...

For me - sometimes the answer comes immediately, but most times it doesn't, sadly. I have to look into this solving business more deeply...Puzzle Solving 101, here I come!

[+WarNinjas]

I'm with the OP however I have not spent a lot of time trying to figure them out. I think it will be a fun new part of the game when I get around to it. I would never let it stop me from wanting to cache though.

- WarNinjas

 

You're right. I would still cache. I worded that poorly; what I meant to explain was when I am going to a new area, and it's flooded with puzzles I cannot start, and maybe only one or two "regulars", it detours me away from that specific area of caching.

I kind of figured that was what you were saying. I know how you feel with this.

When you say you don't know any local cachers, I learned about this from from my phone so I don't know anyone anywhere that caches but have quickly made a few friends just by visiting caches and have ran into some finding my new placements or going for the FTF. I try to pay attention to the cache hiders names and the ones who find my caches. If you are in a area like we are there are ones who will stick out. I once in a while send them a message and have became friends with them. Now some message me to. They are playing the same game and most are willing to help out as well as ask questions if they are having a hard time finding one.

That is the main reason I want to figure out one puzzle. The CO said I should go look for it but I cant even begin to figure it out. I actually think I know the area the final would be in but want to figure it out using the puzzle.

-WarNinjas

[+Gan Dalf]

I think the easiest way to help someone do a puzzle is to provide them with a step by step example on how to do one. since it is bad form to tell someone on the forums how to solve someone elses puzzle I will do so on one of my own. My intent on this particular puzzle was to make it easy anyway so if there are locals that now getto find this cache because I have revealed it's secret, then so be it. It's a cool area anyway...

 

Start by going to this cache page (GC2XRD9), once you look at the page and read the description there are several things I want you to take note of. The first is the title and the second is the background image. As others have said, these can often be vaulable clues on what the puzzle is about or what you might need to solve it. A quick google search of the title will lead you to the Memory Alpha Web site which as I am sure many of the people reading this are aware, is the wiki style data base for everything Star Trek related. You'll also notice that the background image is the same as what is on the Memory Alpha web site and that the image in the lower left hand coordinate is the logo for the United Federation of Planets, the Universe that Star Trek is written about. You can proably assume at this point htat the information you need can be found on this web site.

 

Next take note of the column on the right. You'll notice that there are 15 lines of what appear to be phrases of some sort, maybe you can see that they could be titles. Now googling any one of these might not tell you much but if you google more than one you might start to notice a pattern or if you google a couple in conjunction with the name of the cache you should be able to figure out that each one is the title of a particular Star Trek episode. You might alos notice on the Memory Alpha web site there is a link to the list of the episodes of the various Star Trek shows.

 

The fact that there are 15 of them is not insignificant. That is the number of digits in the coordinates of caches found in my area so you now know that you need to look for something from each title that represents a particular digit of the coordinates. You can also assume that the first two digits are going to be 4 and 7 respectively and that the eigth, ninth and tenth digits are gong to be 1, 2, and 2. The reason you can assume this is because Groundspeak limits the distance away from the posted coords of a puzzle cache to where the actual cache is placed. Since the distance of one minute of latitude or longitude is about a mile, you know that a puzzle cache must be placed within two minutes of the posted coords and so unless you are very close to a change in degree than most puzzle caches will have the same digits of the degrees for both the posted and actual coordinates for the cache. This is a very important thing to learn about aolving puzzles as it helps you narrow things down teremendously.

 

Now that you know that the puzzle is related to the titles of Star Trek episodes and what the digits of the first two eposdes should represent it should be easier to figure out the rest. I admit that some knowledge of what Star Trek is and how I might relate it to the cache is useful but it's not so much of a leap that you can't figure it out. You'll note from the logs on the cache page that at least a couple of the people that solved the puzzle were not huge fans.

 

Take a look a the hint. When you decrypt it you'll see that it says Decimal. This is a clue as well. If you've watched Star Trek before you might remember that most episodes start off with a Captains log, something like "Star Date 22178.9: the Enterpirise is on a routine training mission to..."

 

Even if you don't recognize that, if you look up the epsode lists on the Memory Alpha website, you 'll see that each episode is listed along with a "Star Date" which is always a number. Maybe I used those for the numbers of the digits of the coords for the final...

 

By investigating a little further you notice that the decimal number for each of the star dates for the episodes that are listed go in order, 4, 7, 5... you start to notice a pattern that makes sense. The answer is the Star Dates decimal points; take them all down in order, enter them into the geochecker and BAM! you've got answer.

 

You'll note that I used several different tools to give the cacher clues as to how to solve the puzzle. The Title, The Background, Images in the description, even the font in the text all relate to Star Trek. Each of these either alone or together are common ways for CO's to tell a cacher how to solve puzzles. Start with a couple of easy ones like this, look for commonly used tricks by the CO. Sometimes you will get lucky and know the subject intimately because it realtes to something in your own life. People write puzzles about what they know, if you know it too, it should make it a lot easier.

 

Not all puzzles are going to be that easy. I have a 4.5* Puzzle that didn't get solved for days after publishing. I made it that hard on purpose. Among people that make puzzles there is almost a competition to see how difficult they can make it with everyone trying to one up the last guy, similar to those that like to hide "evil" caches. It's probably best to avoid those at first concentrating on just the ones that are less than 3 stars in difficulty. After a while you'll see that it gets much easier once you start to recognize the common tricks. Also, just like people use PAF's for tricky hides, people use them for solving puzzles too. Don't be afraid to aks CO's either through e-mails or at events how to solve a particular puzzle that has you stumped. Most of the time you will find that puzzle writers are more than willing to help others solve their own puzzles.

 

I hope this helps. Let me know if anything is unclear.

[+thebruce0]

Not all puzzles are going to be that easy. I have a 4.5* Puzzle that didn't get solved for days after publishing.

"Days"? A friend and I drove 6 hours to log a find - a FTF - on a puzzle cache that hadn't been found in 2 years. The owner regularly checked to make sure it was still there. We informed him we solved the puzzle, and he wanted to meet us as we came a great distance for the 2 year FTF.

 

The puzzle required no specialized knowledge or skill.

 

Sometimes solving a puzzle cache can just be a matter of achieving that "click" of realization. We were in disbelief that we got it, and that it was that simple, and no one else had; suffice to say, after staring at it for 4 days, we drove down that weekend, ASAP, to seal the deal.

 

Puzzles can be great fun, and sometimes you never know how easy it really is

(and it was only a 5/1 )

Edited October 14, 2011 by thebruce0

[+EdrickV]

Not all puzzles are going to be that easy. I have a 4.5* Puzzle that didn't get solved for days after publishing.

"Days"? A friend and I drove 6 hours to log a find - a FTF - on a puzzle cache that hadn't been found in 2 years. The owner regularly checked to make sure it was still there. We informed him we solved the puzzle, and he wanted to meet us as we came a great distance for the 2 year FTF.

 

The puzzle required no specialized knowledge or skill.

 

Sometimes solving a puzzle cache can just be a matter of achieving that "click" of realization. We were in disbelief that we got it, and that it was that simple, and no one else had; suffice to say, after staring at it for 4 days, we drove down that weekend, ASAP, to seal the deal.

 

Puzzles can be great fun, and sometimes you never know how easy it really is

(and it was only a 5/1 )

 

OK, I just have to ask, what cache was that? I'm curious if I can solve the puzzle, (and make some guesses as to why nobody else did) even though the cache is probably out of my area. Don't even care if it's archived, as long as the puzzle is still there.

[+Doctroid]

OK, I just have to ask, what cache was that? I'm curious if I can solve the puzzle, (and make some guesses as to why nobody else did) even though the cache is probably out of my area. Don't even care if it's archived, as long as the puzzle is still there.

 

http://coord.info/GC167DV

 

(Finding the log was not so hard a puzzle!)

[+Gan Dalf]

Not all puzzles are going to be that easy. I have a 4.5* Puzzle that didn't get solved for days after publishing.

"Days"? A friend and I drove 6 hours to log a find - a FTF - on a puzzle cache that hadn't been found in 2 years. The owner regularly checked to make sure it was still there. We informed him we solved the puzzle, and he wanted to meet us as we came a great distance for the 2 year FTF.

 

The puzzle required no specialized knowledge or skill.

 

Sometimes solving a puzzle cache can just be a matter of achieving that "click" of realization. We were in disbelief that we got it, and that it was that simple, and no one else had; suffice to say, after staring at it for 4 days, we drove down that weekend, ASAP, to seal the deal.

 

Puzzles can be great fun, and sometimes you never know how easy it really is

(and it was only a 5/1 )

 

Well, yes there are those kinds of caches, like this one. Been 4 years and it still hasn't been solved. My point was that some puzzles are better left alone. Especially if you are just starting out on them...