Geo Hustle

[+Us 4 and Jess]

Anyone know anything about this?

 

http://geohustle.com/

 

Mandy

 

Is that bloke on the photo a Scottish cacher? I think I know who it is but I don't want to name names incase I am wrong..

Edited August 26, 2011 by Us 4 and Jess

[+and off we go]

Wow Sounds like a neat twist to the game. Looks like you have to pay to join though. I hope it comes across the pond for me to try out.

[+Amberel]

Wow Sounds like a neat twist to the game. Looks like you have to pay to join though. I hope it comes across the pond for me to try out.

You pay £2 per person per cache, and of course only the FTF gets the cash.

 

My concern is that people will trash the countryside in their desperation to find the cache.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+CathyLesleyMichael]

Let's hope the caches are better than the web site design. All that flashing text - whoever thought that was a good idea?

[+Happy Humphrey]

It seems to be an updated Quest4Treasure type of thing. Interesting!

Edited August 27, 2011 by Happy Humphrey

[+Delta68]

Let's hope the caches are better than the web site design. All that flashing text - whoever thought that was a good idea?

 

Typos don't impress me either!

[+Deepdiggingmole]

it does sound like it says - a hustle

I would be interested to know if anyone on the forum knows who has set this up - we are being very sceptical about this at the moment - though as soon as the first 'hustle day' has been done it would become known very quickly if this was a con.

How would we know that the FTF'er isnt part of the 'hustle' team

It does sound an interesting twist on caching - but I would hate for people to be conned through it

[+drsolly]

it does sound like it says - a hustle

I would be interested to know if anyone on the forum knows who has set this up - we are being very sceptical about this at the moment - though as soon as the first 'hustle day' has been done it would become known very quickly if this was a con.

How would we know that the FTF'er isnt part of the 'hustle' team

It does sound an interesting twist on caching - but I would hate for people to be conned through it

 

You'd need a bunch of people willing to part with their hard-earned cash, in exchange for a small chance at winning an unknown quantity of money. Anyone who thinks that's going to work, must be living in Camelot.

 

Oh.

[+Sven.]

I can smell plenty of speeding tickets/car crashes/fist fights on these....

Edited August 27, 2011 by Sven&Cup

[+CathyLesleyMichael]

The domain is registered with 123Reg/Webfusion but the owners are using an identity protection service to protect/hide their details. Can't see a mail address or phone number on the site so they aren't giving much away, apart from the money that is!

[+drsolly]

A couple of things I don't understand.

 

Reading it, it sounds like it would be a puzzle-multi, kind of like "Your Mission", Reigate Megaramble", or some of the other great caches I've done where at each stage, you have to solve a puzzle, or something like that, and that's my favourite kind of cache,

 

The web site says that the cash money will be in the container. So, you get it first, it's yours. So I don't see how geohustle can check that the rules are being obeyed, and whereas in geocaching, if you cheat, there's no prize, so I don't care because you didn't cheat me - in geohustle, there is a prize.

 

It costs £2 per team member, so £8 for a family of four. What's to stop a family only paying £2?

 

"if at the end of the day you are the first to find the hidden cache container, and the odds are good" ... if the prize is £100, and the site is making a profit, there must be more than 50 other people going for the container. 50-1 odds don't sound that good to me.

 

"set off walking" ... I prefer to go on a bike, and I don't see a rule against that.

 

It's clear from the fact that the first hustle is 20 days away, and that "we run 2 hustles a week" that this is the first ever. Plus, there's nothing near me yet (he does intend to cover Oxfordshire) so I'll wait a bit before taking part.

 

But having said all that, it does sound like it could be fun, and £2 is nothing compared to what I'd be paying in petrol anyway.

 

If anyone does try this, please let us know how it goes. For me, it wouldn't be important whether I'd win or not, it's more important to know if it's a good day out.

[+drdick&vick]

Having seen the devastation at some geocache sites I have to agree with Amberel.

[+uktim]

It costs £2 per team member, so £8 for a family of four. What's to stop a family only paying £2?

 

"if at the end of the day you are the first to find the hidden cache container, and the odds are good" ... if the prize is £100, and the site is making a profit, there must be more than 50 other people going for the container. 50-1 odds don't sound that good to me.

 

 

£2 at 50:1 seems like a bargain compared to the National Lottery

[WillowMae]

Hi

 

Just spotted this thread, and i thought it would be a good idea to say hello.

 

My name is Matt (the geocaching username 'Willow Mae' is my little girls name).

 

I own Geohustle.com

 

Its nice to see people are talking about it, some of it positive, some negative, i was always ready for the negative comments, its a natural response to a new idea nowadays, especially one which involves giving money away.

 

I tried to answer any questions which may arise on the website but it seems there are a few people who still have concerns.

 

I will just run through a few of the questions you have all brought up.

 

Firstly, and most importantly, this is NOT a con, i am an ex senior outdoor pursuits instructor based on the outskirts of the Lake District, with extensive experience of hiking, climbing and leading groups over the lake district fells, i also have many years experience taking part in canoeing trips in the lakes and rivers of the UK.

 

I set up Geohustle.com as a result of redundancy, it was an idea which i thought would not only be interesting for myself and my family but also for those of you who chose to take part, the hope was that it would also help pay the bills too !!

 

With regards to the website design comment....i designed the website myself, im not a web designer, it took me a long time to design a very basic site, but i think its ok, i will take on board your comments though.....anyone else think the flashing text at the top is annoying ?

 

One of my main concerns when setting this up was for the safety of the countryside, and as someone who has spent most of his life either in the countryside or working alongside it, this was vitally important, i fully appreciate any concern for our surroundings, i take my 5 year old daughter out fellwalking, she accompanies me on canoeing trips and i hope she can do the same with her kids one day, whether she can or not is up to us all.

 

As mentioned on the website, we never hide caches in sensitive areas of countryside, anywhere close to rare plants/flowers or wildlife and always in areas which wont suffer from heavy footfall. We choose the cache sites very carefully and work with countryside wardens, locals and national park rangers whenever possible to make sure we dont have a negative effect on our surroundings.

 

With regards to rules, we have tried to keep the rules to a minimum, 'drsolly' if you want to use your bike....use it.

 

With that said, the routes we map out are specifically chosen so that you simply couldnt cycle the whole way, by the time you have cycled the short distance that is possible and taken a lead, the simple fact that you have to carry your bike for the next 2 miles would slow you down enough for the rest to catch up......thats the hope anyway.

 

With regards to speeding tickets and such (sven∪)...the plan is for all hustle registrants to arrive in the specified hustle location by around 9.30am, all competitors will then receive an e mail at 10.00am giving them all the clues, at this point everyone will be in differnt areas completely so there will be no rush of people in one place at any given point, all will be starting from differnt places, some possibly miles apart, all will work out the clues at different speeds etc

We dont want anyone to go speeding around the place, there will be very little road journey taking place anyway.

 

To answer your question drsolly, whats to stop a family of four only paying £2, when you register on our website you provide us with a team name and pay for the amount of players you wish to take part, you then need to e mail us with the names of all those players, we will then reply with an e mail which allocates an individual player code for each player, each member of your team will be asked for their codes upon arrival at the cache site (if you get there first that is).

I suppose also we have to rely upon a little honesty too !!!

 

Just to explain also about the privacy setting on the domain name register.

 

This was a concern when we did it, that people would think we were trying to hide something, it was simply done due to the fact that i currently work from my home office and didnt want the world having my home address.

 

We have no issues at all with genuine geocachers/geohustlers having our contact details, but there are so many unscrupulous sales people out there, we could really do without their attention.

 

We, as a family are out geocaching at least 3/4 times a week, at weekends and after my little girl finishes school, she loves it, as do we, and we hope that everyone will enjoy Geohustling just as much, this isnt an attempt at replacing geocaching, this works alongside it and as well as, hopefully it will be fun for everyone involved.

 

The photograph on the home page of the website (Us 4 and Jess) is a photo which we simply pulled from the web as we were building the site, just to fill the space out until we had a photograph of our own, the site was never meant to go live and public with that photograph still showing, apologies to the owner of the photo, it has now been removed and replaced with our own image as was originally intended.

 

With regards to the odds of winning, to give you an idea, the odds of winning £1000 on the National Lottery are 1 in 55,000, we are considering capping the amount of Geohustle competitors at a maximum of 1000, so with that in mind, the odds of winning £1000 with Geohustle are 1 in 1000 at the most, 54 times more likely to take home the money than playing the lotto, and on top of that, Geohustle is considerably more fun !!!

 

I hope this post has answered some of your questions, any other questions please feel free to contact us at admin@geohustle.com.

 

HUGE thanks to all those who posted positive comments, and for those who were slightly more cautious, all comments help enormously.

 

Many thanks and very best regards.

 

Matt

Edited August 28, 2011 by WillowMae

[+phil3370]

if its genuine i wish you every success, seems like a good idea unfortunately im crap at working out the clues on normal caches so will see how things develop. There are so many rip off scams in this world at the moment but im ever the optimist (too depressing to be otherwise)and hope this turns out to be quality addition to the geocaching community (which Groundspeak will no doubt copy off you if it is a success lol)

[+sTeamTraen]

I suppose also we have to rely upon a little honesty too !!!

With money involved? Forget it. Seriously: if your game can be broken or hacked by dishonesty, it will be.

 

I don't think that it's very safe to actually put the physical cash in the box. For one thing, the FTF could say "Oi, I found this box and there was no money in it - some toerag must have nicked it", and you have to decide if they're just trying to double their winnings. I'd put a certificate of some kind in there, which says that it's only valid if presented by a registered player of the game. (This also protects you against accusations that you never actually placed the money - you will have a receipt when the FTF collects their winnings.)

 

Pay-to-play games are pretty strictly regulated in the UK. I'd be expecting to see, on your website, as an absolute minimum, the name of the promoting company and its Companies House number.

 

Advertising your odds of winning in comparison to the National Lottery will potentially get you in hot water with the advertising people (Trading Standards &c). Yes, the chance of winning exactly £1000 with the Lotto is probably lower than with Geohustle. But for my lottery ticket, I also get chances to win several million pounds, and lots of other larger and smaller prizes, down to a tenner.

 

There is also the insurance situation. Groundspeak's disclaimer, which is pretty much the legal basis of the game, boils down to "Hey, we just list the caches, nobody says you have to go and find them". That defence probably breaks down when you're encouraging people to compete with each other for cash.

 

Have you taken legal advice about all this?

Edited August 28, 2011 by sTeamTraen

[WillowMae]

Thanks very much for the words of encouragement Phil3370, its been a long, hard job developing Geohustle to this point, we just hope it works out and that everyone enjoys the Hustles, we try not to make the clues too difficult, they can only be as clever as the person creating them, which is me, hence the reason they are not too hard to solve !!!

 

Thanks again and good luck if you decide to take part.

[WillowMae]

In reply to the post by sTeamTraen,

 

I believe there has to be an element of trust in virtually every business of any kind, from geohustle to the local shop or supermarket, precautions are taken but we all at some point have to rely on the trustworthyness of others.

 

We have removed almost all the opportunities that were available for people to be dishonest.

 

Pay to play games in the UK are as you mention strictly regulated but as we have taken advice from the governments gambling commission, we can rest assured that due to the nature of geohustling and the fact that in order to win a player has to use skill rather than rely on luck licences are not required, if the game was based on luck instead of skill and knowledge then licences would have to be obtained.

 

With regard to your comment on the Companies House number, the company will be registered with companies house within the next 10 days or so, and as soon as the company becomes incorporated we will immediately publish the company number on the website.

 

In response to your comment about the fact that if you were to play the lottery, you also have the opportunity to win higher or lower prize amounts, you are absolutely right, but that is simply a personal preference, some people feel that their money is better spent on the lottery, others feel they prefer to spend their cash on something a little more involved and engaging, others prefer to feed fruit machines with pound coins in order to win a £30 jackpot, it is simply personal preference and we are under no impression that geohustling is going to be for everyone.

 

With regards to Groundspeaks disclaimer, we work on the same basis, no one is forcing anybody to play, if you choose to play you accept the terms and conditions, again its a choice an individual makes.

Groundspeak do in fact encourage people to go out and find the caches, if they didnt they wouldnt be where they are today.

Advertising, product sales and marketing is encouragement in itself.

 

At the end of the day, we have spent alot of time working on geohustle, we have taken advice and tried to create a formula which people will enjoy, hopefully it will work, we can only wait and see.

 

Thankyou for your comments, we really do take ALL comments on board, we dont consider any comment negative, simply an opportunity to alter the issues that may or may not need addressing.

 

Many thanks

Edited August 28, 2011 by WillowMae

[+drsolly]

Thanks for your post. Indeed, one of the things I was a bit concerned about was the anonymity, but you've cleared that up now.

 

I think your web site looks fine.

 

I think you've had a good idea here, and I wish you every success. Suggestions:

 

- indicate the total distance to be walked in each hustle, and expected time taken. I don't know how much water to carry otherwise, whether kids would be able to stay the course, or dogs, or whether to take food.

 

- when a hustle is finished, then it would be an idea to leave the cache in place, and register it with one of the usual sites (albeit with no prize, but just the usual swaps).

 

- post your message on the GAGB web site, and/or some other geocaching forums, in case TPTB here deem this as "commercial" and kill the thread.

[WillowMae]

Thanks for the suggestions drsolly, there is some basic information regarding the distances etc on the website and suitability for children, we will most likely fill this information out a little and make it more comprehensive and therefore more useful.

 

The suggestion that we leave the cache in place and create a registered cache from it is an excellent idea.

 

We are currently in touch with the GAGB.

 

Many many thanks for the positive words.

Edited August 28, 2011 by WillowMae

[+martlakes]

Hi Matt - be interesting to know your geocaching account name since you say you're out and about caching a lot.

 

Bit of a shame to pick geohustle as the game name as hustle is fairly pejorative.

Yes, I do find the flashing bit on the site distracting and some of the text is hard to read being grey'ish.

 

Might be fun.

[WillowMae]

Hello martlakes,

 

Our geocaching account name should be at the top of each forum post.

 

We have been fell walkers and outdoor enthusiasts for years, caching with friends and family for 6 months or so, but recently felt the need to register with our own account, we are registered as WillowMae, feel free to check us out.

 

The Hustle name was chosen for numerous reasons...we felt it was catchy, memorable and appropriate.

 

The word Hustle has many synonyms...'apply oneself', 'be concientious', 'hotfoot' and 'race', amongst others, but the definition of Hustle is to 'hurry' or 'work hurriedly'....the definition and the synonyms all seemed to fit the bill, and so the name was born.

 

We are taking on board the comments from yourself and others regarding the website and will make changes if the majority find the flashing text irritating, unfortunately im no web designer, it took me 10 times longer than it should have done but i was quite pleased with the finished product but please remember it is essentially work in progress.

 

As i have mentioned before to others...THANKYOU for your suggestions, they are much appreciated.

[+Amberel]

I think it's not something that would interest me because I go caching for quite different reasons than a competitive race.

 

But if I were to consider doing it, there would be one pre-requisite. I would want the allocation of the prize fund to be completely transparent, i.e. if you allocated half of the received subscriptions to the prize fund and used the other half to cover your costs and profits that would be fine, provided it was clearly stated and rigorously adhered to.

 

I'm in the "no flashing please, we're British" camp . Web sites should be functional, simple, neat and tidy, but never gaudy. Please excuse this, it's not intended to be personal, but only amateurs flash .

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Louis Lovers]

I think the site design looks modern, smart and is really very good; I certainly had no problems reading it either though I admit I haven't explored the site much. I like the name also - the "hustle" label seems very trendy at the moment (though us cachers aren't generally considered trend-setters exactly!). I know bugger all about anything else but good luck with the business! If it takes off - can I have a job please? I'm fed up with the one I have Mybe I could help you with "GeoHustle - St Lucia"?

Edited August 28, 2011 by Louis Lovers

[WillowMae]

Hello 'Amberel' and thanks for the input.

 

In reference to your concern about the prize fund, our intention from the start has always to be as transparent as possible, the cache will contain a minimum of £100, the prize fund will then rise appropriately in relation to the number of players registered.

 

So, for example, if 300 players were to register we would then offer a prize fund of approx £300 - £400, 500 players would result in a £500 - £600 prize fund, if more than 800 players were to register the prize fund would then reach £1000.

 

We have set up Geohustle in the hope that we can continue to live and work within the rural surroundings we love so much, operational costs are quite high, with fuel being currently so expensive, accomodation costs to cover hustles further afield, wages etc but hopefully and with a lot of hard work we can make enough to pay the bills whilst promoting our countryside and its benefits to as many people as possible.

 

The 'no flashing' comments seem to be coming in thick and fast, i have just slowed the flashing speed down, does that help ?

 

All the comments we have been getting from people like yourself have been wonderful and very useful. Thankyou.

 

'Louis Lovers'...HUGE thanks for the fabulously positive comments, take some time to explore the site, let us know what you think. Geohustle St Lucia sounds nice, when we take Geohustle to St Lucia you'll be the first to know !!!

 

Thanks everyone.

Edited August 29, 2011 by WillowMae

[+FFloss]

I don't have any problem with the £2 entry fee - after all it costs far more than this to enter an orienteering or fell race and there I don't have any expectation of getting any money back.

 

However I get the impression that you need a smartphone to take part and so it is a non-starter for a luddite such as myself.

[WillowMae]

Hello FFloss

 

A smart phone would be useful, but essentially all you need is the ability to access an e mail on the morning of the hustle date.

 

For those who live in the area of the hustle, this isnt an issue, they are able to pick up the e mail from home.

 

For those who are travelling to the area to take part, there are a few various options :

 

1 - Obtaining internet access from a local internet cafe, library or similar.

2 - Contacting a friend or family member not joining you on the hustle to pick up the e mail and relay the contents.

3 - Using a smart phone is the perfect way to take part in a Geohustle, but using any of the alternatives above is no disadvantage or in fact any slower, in some respects, it may be quicker, in my experience smart phones have a habit of losing signal strength just when you need it !!!

 

The e mail we send out to all hustle competitors is basic, with each clue being only around 1 line of text.

 

Hopefully this will have helped in your decision as to whether or not to register for a hustle.

 

We tested all the possible ways of retrieving the e mail when we carried out a test hustle locally, all methods seemed to work well and evenly.

 

Thankyou so much for your feedback.

[+Deepdiggingmole]

Many questions now answered - thank you

You mention a hustle in Kent - but this does not come up on the site

do you have an idea when the Kent hustle is planned for

[WillowMae]

Hello Tim,

 

We are planning a hustle in and around Kent, and we have been working on locations and dates over the last few days, we hope to release more confirmed hustle locations either tomorrow (Tuesday) or the following day.

 

My advice is to either keep a close eye on the website 'bulletin' page or the Geohustle 'Calendar', we will publish the newly confirmed hustles on both of these pages as soon as the details have been finalised.

 

If you are registered on Facebook, it would be a good idea to 'Like' us, this way you will receive all the latest information as it happens. You can find our Facebook page by clicking on the link at the foot of every page on our website: www.geohustle.com

 

Many thanks for the interest and we hope to see you on the first Kent hustle.

[+Us 4 and Jess]

Is this right?

 

We pay our money, go to a place we have texted to us for a certain time? Then we are texted clues/puzzles to find the hustle? How many clues/text will we get?

 

What happens when there are dozens of teams taking part in dozens of hustles, Joe Bloggs could get his text 20 minutes before me..

 

Say there are 30 teams playing, we all go to different places, are we all the same distance from the cache?

 

Do we all get the same chance to win?

 

If we are all 3 mile from the cache, does some 18 year old kid not have a much better chance off getting there quicker than I do? The same as I would have a much better chance of getting there quicker than a pensioner?

 

I can see 20 people arriving together and the whole thing ending in a massive fisty cuffs ...

 

Oh well I will wait and see how it goes, see if anyone I know takes part and find out what they thought of it.........because as usual our beautiful piece of the UK has been forgotten

 

BTW That's Durham

 

Mandy

 

Edited cos I can't speel

Edited August 29, 2011 by Us 4 and Jess

[WillowMae]

Hello Mandy

 

As with any sport or contest, it is almost impossible to ensure that all participants have an equal chance of winning.

 

Teams from the top flight take part in the FA cup alongside clubs from the lower divisions, the lower division sides are far less likely to win than the top flight clubs, but they still take part and often defy the odds and take the win.

 

You are correct when you mention that an 18 year old is going to have a greater chance of winning than a 50 year old, but only if the contest was based purely on athletic ability alone.

 

Geohustling is not a contest which is based purely on physical ability, problem solving skills and common sense are just as important.

 

With regard to the amount of clues you will receive, that really differs from hustle to hustle, although as a rough guide, the e mail competitors receive on the morning of the hustle will contain between 10 and 15 clues. We try to keep the clues as basic as possible, one or two line cryptic puzzles which do require a little thought but they're not too difficult.

 

In response to your concern about the timing of the e mail, it is possible that some players may in fact receive the e mail before others, it entirely depends on each individuals email provider and is something which is out of our control, as a general rule though, in the tests we have completed, e mails are received within minutes of each other.

 

Not all players are going to start from the same point, this is the only element of luck in Geohustle.

Players are asked to arrive in the Hustle town by 9.30 am on the morning of the hustle, players will essentially be spread all over town, they could be a few miles apart, so with that in mind, when the e mail comes through at 10am, there are some players that may be closer to the initial start point than others, its the luck of the draw with that one, with that said though, we do design the routes and clues to try and ensure a fair hustle.

 

The hustles are designed this way specifically, so that all those taking part do not end up at the same point at the same time, although, you will come across other competitors at some point, try and take a different route and outsmart them.

 

We will have Geohustle marshalls discreetly wandering round the route, they will be clearly visible in geohustle jackets, and will ensure that there is no unfair activity taking place, you may or may not see one.

 

The cache site itself, will be manned with Geohustle staff, there to not only congratulate the cache finder but also to ensure the safety of all competitors.

 

At the moment, we have to be fairly strategic with regard to our hustle locations and any county that is currently excluded from our list has not been left out for any particular reason, we simply decided to start with 10 counties and chose the current list for geographical purposes only, we are currently due to so many location requests, in the process of adding, changing and increasing the hustle locations and dates, so we may well add a hustle in the North East over the coming days.

 

Thankyou for asking the questions, and thankyou for starting the thread, it has given us at least the opportunity to answer peoples concerns and issues.

 

Many thanks Mandy and we hope to see you at a hustle soon

[+drsolly]

If cachers want the best chance of winning, I'd guess that you should sign up for the first hustle, because so many people will be holding off to see how it goes.

 

Looking at the business plan:

 

I'm guessing that you're aiming for a 50% margin; putting half the revenue from each hustle, into the pot (you need to cover expenses, pay for stuff, cost of your time etc). It means that if you get less than 50 cachers, you're out of pocket on the hustle prize money, as well as the expenses, time etc. That would mean that you'd want 100 cachers minimum, per hustle. I suspect that isn't going to happen much, but I do wish you the best of luck.

 

For me, and I'd guess some other people, the main point of competing would be the fun, not the £100. So if I'm right about numbers of competitors, you might consider reducing the minimum pot.

[WillowMae]

Morning drsolly,

 

I think you're right in many respects, certainly there will be many people who sign up for a hustle simply to take part and have fun, but there will be many of those who are out to find the cache.

 

In reference to your comments regarding the player numbers, thats a bit of a unknown at this stage, and, with respect, i hope you're wrong, we have had so much wonderful feedback from everybody so far, so many e mails requesting us to confirm hustles in other locations than currently listed, its been very positive on the whole, and we're looking forward to what hopefully is the beginning of a long Geohustle future.

 

We really do hope that we can be a positive and exciting addition to the geocaching community for many years to come.

 

Reducing the minimum prize fund was something we thought about long and hard before releasing Geohustle to the world, we'll see how it goes, like in any business, things take time, we are expecting to make a loss on the first 2 or 3 hustles, once people realise that they do in fact have a good chance of winning a useful amount of money alongside having a pleasant day out in the countryside and fresh air, player numbers will hopefully then increase.

 

Once a few hustles have taken place confidence in Geohustle should start to develop and grow.

 

Once again, huge thanks to yourself for all the comments and suggestions, the input from everyone so far will help us to develop bigger and better hustles in the coming months.

 

Thankyou again.

Edited August 30, 2011 by WillowMae

[+perth pathfinders]

Is this right?

 

We pay our money, go to a place we have texted to us for a certain time? Then we are texted clues/puzzles to find the hustle?

 

Mandy

 

Edited cos I can't speel

 

So, If I am reading it correct, You arrive at the designated spot for 9.30 and await further instructions.

 

Are the clues sent by text or email?

 

Not everyone has a smartphone that receives emails?

 

If people are relying on going to an Internet Cafe then smartphone users will have an unfair advantage?

Edited August 30, 2011 by perth pathfinders

[WillowMae]

Hello perth pathfinders,

 

We send the clues all in one go, in one e mail.

 

We have tested the format quite extensively and from our findings, the method of checking the e mail doesnt seem to change the odds of winning a great deal , whether you use a smart phone, call friends or family to relay the e mail contents or check the e mail at an internet cafe or library.

 

The speed at which you check the mail is essentially the same, the only difference is the fact that if you dont have a smart phone you have to print it out, the time it takes to print is very short and the advantage smart phone users have is small to say the least.

 

We hope to see you at a hustle.

 

I hope this has helped clear up any concerns you may have.

 

Many thanks.

[+uktim]

 

If people are relying on going to an Internet Cafe then smartphone users will have an unfair advantage?

 

But we all have an unfair advantage over those who have no GPS

[WillowMae]

GPS wont be of that much use during a Hustle im afraid.

 

A compass could be of some use but it isnt absolutely necessary.

 

We really have made every attempt to produce a very level playing field for all competitors.

 

Nobody really has an unfair advantage over anyone else.

 

Try it out for yourself....many people will be taking part simply for the day out, not all competitors are hustling for the cache find.

 

We are going to leave the cache in place after it has been found, in order for the remaining competitors to sign the log.

 

It'll be fun whether you find the cache or not.

Edited August 30, 2011 by WillowMae

[+Us 4 and Jess]

Hello Mandy

 

As with any sport or contest, it is almost impossible to ensure that all participants have an equal chance of winning.

 

Teams from the top flight take part in the FA cup alongside clubs from the lower divisions, the lower division sides are far less likely to win than the top flight clubs, but they still take part and often defy the odds and take the win.

 

You are correct when you mention that an 18 year old is going to have a greater chance of winning than a 50 year old, but only if the contest was based purely on athletic ability alone.

 

Geohustling is not a contest which is based purely on physical ability, problem solving skills and common sense are just as important.

 

With regard to the amount of clues you will receive, that really differs from hustle to hustle, although as a rough guide, the e mail competitors receive on the morning of the hustle will contain between 10 and 15 clues. We try to keep the clues as basic as possible, one or two line cryptic puzzles which do require a little thought but they're not too difficult.

 

In response to your concern about the timing of the e mail, it is possible that some players may in fact receive the e mail before others, it entirely depends on each individuals email provider and is something which is out of our control, as a general rule though, in the tests we have completed, e mails are received within minutes of each other.

 

Not all players are going to start from the same point, this is the only element of luck in Geohustle.

Players are asked to arrive in the Hustle town by 9.30 am on the morning of the hustle, players will essentially be spread all over town, they could be a few miles apart, so with that in mind, when the e mail comes through at 10am, there are some players that may be closer to the initial start point than others, its the luck of the draw with that one, with that said though, we do design the routes and clues to try and ensure a fair hustle.

 

The hustles are designed this way specifically, so that all those taking part do not end up at the same point at the same time, although, you will come across other competitors at some point, try and take a different route and outsmart them.

 

We will have Geohustle marshalls discreetly wandering round the route, they will be clearly visible in geohustle jackets, and will ensure that there is no unfair activity taking place, you may or may not see one.

 

The cache site itself, will be manned with Geohustle staff, there to not only congratulate the cache finder but also to ensure the safety of all competitors.

 

At the moment, we have to be fairly strategic with regard to our hustle locations and any county that is currently excluded from our list has not been left out for any particular reason, we simply decided to start with 10 counties and chose the current list for geographical purposes only, we are currently due to so many location requests, in the process of adding, changing and increasing the hustle locations and dates, so we may well add a hustle in the North East over the coming days.

 

Thankyou for asking the questions, and thankyou for starting the thread, it has given us at least the opportunity to answer peoples concerns and issues.

 

Many thanks Mandy and we hope to see you at a hustle soon

 

Many thanks for you reply

 

You seem to have a lot of interest..

 

I should get a free go, the clues, or even just the GPSr co rdinates to the final container two days before everyone else, for all the advertising you have gotten from my post

 

I will keep an eye on this in the future and see how it goes

 

One more question how often will the hustles in a certain area be? Will they be weekly, monthly, quaterly?

 

I can not understand why this thread has not been closed down, they close a thread in here if you sneeze!! You can not deny you will be taking business from GC obviously cachers will want to try this out, if they spend a day doing a hustle is is a day they could have spent finding say 20 geocaches.....which leads to the question do you have any kind of relationship with GC and do they know about your new venture? (Well obviously they do now, but before I posted my thread I mean)

 

The new game you are promoting is very similar to theirs and you are asking for money, they don't like that...should we mention I was stopped from advertising my Charity Geocaching Calendars...maybe not

 

BTW I am soooo NOT 50

 

Mandy

Edited August 30, 2011 by Us 4 and Jess

[WillowMae]

Mandy,

 

Firstly, Huge thanks for all the positive comments.

 

Secondly, when I wrote the last post I was in no way hinting that you were 50, apologies if it read that way !!!

 

Keep in touch with us and I hope to see you at a hustle sometime soon.

[+Us 4 and Jess]

I think we were typing at the same time when you replied to my last post as you did not answer the questions I asked, sorry about that the questions came as an after thought

 

One thing I did think a business man running a new venture would have asked me is where I saw your advertising

 

Anyway as it happens I was was playing FarmVille on FaceBook (as you do ) and your advert was one of several on the sidebar, so your new venture is obviously going to millions of people around the country if not around the world courtesy of the Google Bots

 

So going the opposite way of DrSolly, will you be prepared/able to cope if hundreds of people turn up for your hustles? Or in the worst/best case scenario 1000s turn up if you had one at the same time as the Mega in the Lakes next year?

 

Mandy

Edited August 30, 2011 by Us 4 and Jess

[+FFloss]

GPS wont be of that much use during a Hustle im afraid.

 

 

In which case, what has it got to do with geocaching?

[+Us 4 and Jess]

GPS wont be of that much use during a Hustle im afraid.

 

 

In which case, what has it got to do with geocaching?

 

It sounds more like a Treasure Hunt, than Geocaching to me

[WillowMae]

Hello

 

I will try and answer a few of your questions here if possible.

 

Apologies for not answering before 'us 4 and jess', you're right, i think we were typing at the same time.

 

In answer to your question regarding the hustle frequency, the intention initially is to run a hustle in each of the counties listed on the website once a month, it may not always work out that way, but thats the plan.

 

We are going to be adding a few extra locations over the next few days, which will include a hustle over the border in Scotland.

 

Just to clear things up 'Us 4 and Jess', im no business man, we (my family) are outdoor enthusiasts and live for the outdoor life, we thought this was a good idea, hoped it might help get the kids (and some adults) away from the X box and out into the countryside, it was also an opportunity for us to continue working outdoors in the landscape we all grew up in.

 

Geohustle was developed due to having time available following redundancy...hopefully it will help to pay the bills too.....fingers crossed !!!

 

With regards to the comments about the lack of GPS.

 

The format for Geohustle was something we thought about very carefully.

 

After talking to many many people, we found that along with the die hard geocachers who, like us, think geocaching is great, there were also those who thought the whole idea of geocaching using GPS coordinates was ridiculous, preferring the idea of clue based hunts.

 

With that in mind we developed a hybrid, somewhere in between geocaching and a treasure hunt, something which would hopefully appeal to a wider audience.

 

Geohustle does have many similarities to geocaching, in that, geocaching involves walking from one point to another in the hunt for a hidden container or containers, the only difference is, geocaching involves following GPS coordinates and clue based hints, geohustling simply misses out the GPS.

 

That said you do need to know the difference between N.S.E and W, so taking a compass would be useful, but not absolutely essential.

 

Are we ready for 1000s of people turning up, no, not right now, but if, and by the time the hustles are attracting those kinds of figures we hopefully will be, we are working hard to get ready for the first hustle, Geohustle, as with anything else in its infancy, will no doubt have to iron out the creases as we go, development will be an ongoing thing.

 

We do also have a few ideas which may make the game more interesting and attractive, we're working on them right now.

 

I really hope that i am managing to answer all your questions with enough detail and information.

 

If im not, apologies.

 

Hope this clears a few more issues up.

 

As before....many many thanks for ALL the input and support.

 

Sorry 'Us 4 and Jess' as much as i'd love to, i really cant provide you with the co ordinates of the cache location......SORRY !!!

[+sTeamTraen]

In my earlier post, I mentioned this idea, but only by adding it in an edit after you had replied. So in case you missed it: I really, really hope that you don't put the actual physical cash money in the box. When the local toerags find out that there's real money involved, all kinds of stuff can go wrong (and with 100-200 people or more milling around, the local constabulary may already be muttering words like "public order"). Far better to put a token in there which can be exchanged for the money when the FTF, duly registered as a player, claims it.

[+Smurf]

Let's hope the caches are better than the web site design.

 

Unlikely I'd say, the person in question has been a "member" for 3 weeks and has 32 finds

[WillowMae]

Hmm, my first negative post so far...apologies in advance !!!

 

Seems rather strange that you seem to believe that only a long standing member of the geocaching community could ever be capable of hiding a small box in a hole !!!!

 

I dont want to upset the apple cart, as we thoroughly enjoy geocaching and have had nothing but great experiences and meetings with others of a like mind.

 

Unfortunately, it would appear that 'smurf' and so far you alone, seem to think that a 36 year old ex outdoor instructor and fell guide who most likely spends more time in the outdoor 'wilderness' areas of the UK in one week than you manage in a year cannot hide a cache container....very unusual attitude, maybe you should join a hustle so we can all see just how impressive you really are !!!

 

I dont really believe my caching background bears any significance at all, and 32 finds in 3 weeks, is, in my eyes half reasonable for a hard working family man with little time on his hands, we are not all in the fortunate position to be able to spend all day, every day out in the field.

 

To be quite honest, and i hope that this wont upset anybody else, i honesly see no reason why it should, we geocache for fun, as a family, it is not a 'sport' to us and we dont take it that seriously either, we treat it simply as an added extra along the walk.

 

I do find your attitude rather odd.

 

Nevermind, you have your views, you are more than welcome to them, we do in fact enjoy hearing them, 99.9% of the opinions, concerns, advice and suggestions we have seen on this forum so far have been sensible, rational and understandable....im afraid, and with respect.....yours isnt !!!

 

Thanks for the chuckle though 'smurf'

[WillowMae]

Thanks 'sTeamTraen'.....

 

Your suggestions have definitely been taken on board, we have 22 days before the first hustle in Lancashire and we will give the matter some serious thought, we are running a further test hustle in a week or so, we'll test out your suggestion then.

 

Thankyou very much for the advice though.

 

We will think hard about it over the next week and see how we feel.

 

Thanks again sTeamTraen.

[+MBFace]

From what I have read this is not geocaching, just a treasure hunt.

 

I live in Cumbria, one of the ten chosen counties. Given all the adverse publicity associated with the 2008 OMM (Original Mountain Marathon) particularly from the late Mark Weir I would hate to see geocaching getting slated in the press for anything that may go wrong with one of these events - especially after Wetherby.

Edited August 30, 2011 by MBFace

[WillowMae]

MBFace...

 

We totally agree, the last thing we want is any damage to the surrounding area or local nuisance due to any problems with one of our hustles.

 

I spent many years not only living in Keswick but working upon the fells and crags around that surround it, i am fully aware of the consequences of a poorly organized event of any description.

 

It is the aim of many companies, charities and government agencies to promote our countryside and rural areas, not only for the health and wellbeing of our children but for the continuing growth of rural communities, this has to done very carefully though, as higher visitor number mean added wear and tear on the countryside, woodland and fells, it really is a fine line.

 

I think Geocaching has already had its fair share of negative press, and in the relatively short time we have been caching, we have seen some fairly horrific devastation at cache sites, this devastation is totally unneccesary and could be avoided by better cache placement.

 

We are never going to put everyones mind at rest here, but rest assured that we are very aware of what needs to be done to rescue and preserve rural britain.

 

We do fully understand your concerns though.

 

Thanks for the input MBFace.

[+MBFace]

I spent many years not only living in Keswick but working upon the fells and crags around that surround it, i am fully aware of the consequences of a poorly organized event of any description.

To put the record straight - I did NOT say that the 2008 OMM was poorly organised, I was just commenting on the resulting publicity.