reasonable expectation for accuracy - GPSMap 62s

[+Team Bonawii]

Can some of the more experienced folks offer some perspective on a reasonable expected accuracy on this GPS? The device is about 4 months old and has been pretty good but sometimes it will bounce around a lot; I can be in an area where I'm 10m from a cache, then if I move closer towards the cache it bounces around tells me now I'm 20m away in a completely different direction. This is out in the woods so it's not like there's buildings around blocking signal (nor am I down in a narrow valley - I can have wide visibility up to the sky).

 

Admittedly, it might be less fun caching if the GPS took me 100% dead on to the cache every time, but on the flip side it's very frustrating sometimes (e.g. looking for a micro in the woods) to see it make such big "180 deg" adjustments sometimes.

 

Thanks

Edited July 26, 2011 by Team Bonawai

[+CacheFreakTim]

In urban areas with a clear view of the sky you can expect to be within 10ft. of the cache almost every time. Under tree cover it gets worse....just how worse depends on the amount of tree cover. Under really heavy tree cover you might see upwards of 30-50ft. Honestly it really depends.

[+BStheTech]

I have the 62st. If I have clear sky and no power lines it's usually 3m (9feet). Add tree cover and it goes up to 6m. I've seen it as high as 10m.

In those cases I just increase my search area. I had hoped the external antennae on the 62 would have helped more. Sometimes I come in from several

directions and average the results.

 

B.

Edited July 26, 2011 by BStheTech

[+humboldt flier]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... got to love the "Drunken Sailor Dance".

 

!8-20 feet is all you should expect ... those days you get better are PURE GRAVY.

 

Be aware that there are many variables entering into the mix.

 

Cache on.

[+luvvinbird]

Can some of the more experienced folks offer some perspective on a reasonable expected accuracy on this GPS? The device is about 4 months old and has been pretty good but sometimes it will bounce around a lot; I can be in an area where I'm 10m from a cache, then if I move closer towards the cache it bounces around tells me now I'm 20m away in a completely different direction. This is out in the woods so it's not like there's buildings around blocking signal (nor am I down in a narrow valley - I can have wide visibility up to the sky).

 

Admittedly, it might be less fun caching if the GPS took me 100% dead on to the cache every time, but on the flip side it's very frustrating sometimes (e.g. looking for a micro in the woods) to see it make such big "180 deg" adjustments sometimes.

 

Thanks

I know exactly what you're talking about, I've experienced it many times. First my 62s tells me it's to my left 20 feet, so I go there. Now, it's behind me 30 feet, so I go there, too. Now, to the right 25 feet, and so on. Usually under a heavier canopy and rarely, if ever, experienced with my 60CSx. I read on this forum that someone had been to a geocaching event and posed this very question to a Garmin representative. The rep said Garmin was aware of the problem and that it would be corrected on the next firmware update. I apologize that I don't recall where and exactly when I read that although it was recently. UPDATE I just found it. It was on the Garmin Wiki website seen here: Garmin Wiki (scroll down once on that page)

Edited July 26, 2011 by luvvinbird

[+Team Bonawii]

Thanks all for the comments. I think it is an issue of precision versus accuracy - it's not like when I take a few steps I'm underdoing any significant change in tree cover. I know accuracy is not always going to be dead on, but the compass headings should be consistent.

 

Thanks for the link luvvinbird. I'm wary of a rep saying "it'll be in the next firmware release" - that can be just a canned answer to get someone to bugger off; additionally, firmware takes a long time to develop and test.

[+BStheTech]

Thanks all for the comments. I think it is an issue of precision versus accuracy - it's not like when I take a few steps I'm underdoing any significant change in tree cover. I know accuracy is not always going to be dead on, but the compass headings should be consistent.

 

Thanks for the link luvvinbird. I'm wary of a rep saying "it'll be in the next firmware release" - that can be just a canned answer to get someone to bugger off; additionally, firmware takes a long time to develop and test.

 

At least he acknowledged the problem (which I am also having). Usually the patent answer to get people to bugger off is "we haven't experienced that".

 

B.

[+michaelnel]

Usually the patent answer to get people to bugger off is "we haven't experienced that".

 

And the second most popular one is "That will be fixed in the next release", but it seldom is.

[+ecanderson]

I know accuracy is not always going to be dead on, but the compass headings should be consistent.

Why? If the GPS thinks your location is in some new position, the bearing the the cache coordinates will change, too. There's no reason at all that a positional error should always be in the same direction relative to the target.

[+Team Bonawii]

I know accuracy is not always going to be dead on, but the compass headings should be consistent.

Why? If the GPS thinks your location is in some new position, the bearing the the cache coordinates will change, too. There's no reason at all that a positional error should always be in the same direction relative to the target.

 

I see your point, but as I slowly move towards the original coordinates, I wouldn't think it would suddenly make as big of changes in direction and distance when I've only walked a few feet away from the last reading.

[+dfx]

I see your point, but as I slowly move towards the original coordinates, I wouldn't think it would suddenly make as big of changes in direction and distance when I've only walked a few feet away from the last reading.

 

If you're close to the coordinates, it might very well do that. The GPS thinks you're 10 feet east of GZ, so points to your west. You walk 10 feet west, but then the GPS thinks you're 10 feet north of GZ, so it's pointing south now.

[+ecanderson]

If you're close to the coordinates, it might very well do that. The GPS thinks you're 10 feet east of GZ, so points to your west. You walk 10 feet west, but then the GPS thinks you're 10 feet north of GZ, so it's pointing south now.

... and chasing that sort of error around has lots of names, but I think the most popular for it in the geocaching lexicon is "the Drunken Bee Dance"

[Grasscatcher]

Instead of just describing, and naming a normal GPS action, why don't you "more experienced types" simply explain to the OP how easy it is to nullify it's effects.......where it no longer is a factor in finding the actual coordinate location?

 

And as has been stated, it is precision that's being discussed, not accuracy. Accuracy can be determined by comparison with an accurately surveyed "known location" like a Benchmark.

[+michaelnel]

When my GPSR is dancing around, I like to back off from GZ 50 feet or so and then sight bearing/distance to GZ from several locations in a circle around it. I usually find that although the indicated distance will vary, it usually points to about the same place from various different angles.

 

Then I have to use geosense to find it.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Can some of the more experienced folks offer some perspective on a reasonable expected accuracy on this GPS? The device is about 4 months old and has been pretty good but sometimes it will bounce around a lot; I can be in an area where I'm 10m from a cache, then if I move closer towards the cache it bounces around tells me now I'm 20m away in a completely different direction. This is out in the woods so it's not like there's buildings around blocking signal (nor am I down in a narrow valley - I can have wide visibility up to the sky).

 

Admittedly, it might be less fun caching if the GPS took me 100% dead on to the cache every time, but on the flip side it's very frustrating sometimes (e.g. looking for a micro in the woods) to see it make such big "180 deg" adjustments sometimes.

 

Thanks

 

The Oregon 450 will bounce and freeze at times as well. Its a shame this is the best Garmin can do with the paperless units. My 60 CSx and Magellan Platinum glide right to the cache everytime...its good to carry a unit like these ( I do ) with you along with your paperless unit.....you'll find the cache faster with less headaches.

[+luvvinbird]

An excellent suggestion I got right here on this forum was to use the actual cache coordinates to locate rather than following an arrow or counting down the distance to cache. When I'm doing "the dance", I'll often check the cache description to get the coordinates, then I'll flip to the satellite screen and leisurely get myself to GZ. I find it does work and I'll be reasonably close to where the CO was when he placed it.

[+dfx]

An excellent suggestion I got right here on this forum was to use the actual cache coordinates to locate rather than following an arrow or counting down the distance to cache. When I'm doing "the dance", I'll often check the cache description to get the coordinates, then I'll flip to the satellite screen and leisurely get myself to GZ. I find it does work and I'll be reasonably close to where the CO was when he placed it.

 

But how do you know where the "actual" cache coordinates are?

[+michaelnel]

But how do you know where the "actual" cache coordinates are?

 

They're right over there, by that rock.

[+luvvinbird]

But how do you know where the "actual" cache coordinates are?

 

They're right over there, by that rock.

Exactly. You don't know. But for sure it's a better way of pin-pointing to one location rather than going all over the place and I've had better luck at locating the cache using that method when all else fails.

[+ecanderson]

When my GPSR is dancing around, I like to back off from GZ 50 feet or so and then sight bearing/distance to GZ from several locations in a circle around it. I usually find that although the indicated distance will vary, it usually points to about the same place from various different angles.

 

I'm with you on that technique. It's one of the reasons I have always appreciated having the compass chip in my GPS units. Being able to back up, stand still, shoot a bearing, and eyeball a line across a target area from a couple of different angles has helped quite a number of times. It's especially useful when GZ is up against a building, canyon wall or whatever and you need to back away anyway just to get decent readings.

[Grasscatcher]

When my GPSR is dancing around, I like to back off from GZ 50 feet or so and then sight bearing/distance to GZ from several locations in a circle around it. I usually find that although the indicated distance will vary, it usually points to about the same place from various different angles.

 

I'm with you on that technique. It's one of the reasons I have always appreciated having the compass chip in my GPS units. Being able to back up, stand still, shoot a bearing, and eyeball a line across a target area from a couple of different angles has helped quite a number of times. It's especially useful when GZ is up against a building, canyon wall or whatever and you need to back away anyway just to get decent readings.

 

Finally!.....but only partially.....

 

ECA, your method only works with a 3 axis compass. With a 2 axis compass the user can't "stand still" because the compass will no longer be accurate with no direction of travel detected.

...and what about all the GPSs without a compass?

 

If you have a compass, TURN IT OFF. Use only the Bearing pointer. Establish a line of travel (moving) to the coordinates (or maybe project a point onto a building wall). Back off and come at it from a different direction/starting point. Do it again....the intersection point of those lines established from different directions is "the point".

 

Really, it's DB simple......works every time.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Grasscatcher

[+ecanderson]

When my GPSR is dancing around, I like to back off from GZ 50 feet or so and then sight bearing/distance to GZ from several locations in a circle around it. I usually find that although the indicated distance will vary, it usually points to about the same place from various different angles.

 

I'm with you on that technique. It's one of the reasons I have always appreciated having the compass chip in my GPS units. Being able to back up, stand still, shoot a bearing, and eyeball a line across a target area from a couple of different angles has helped quite a number of times. It's especially useful when GZ is up against a building, canyon wall or whatever and you need to back away anyway just to get decent readings.

 

Finally!.....but only partially.....

 

ECA, your method only works with a 3 axis compass. With a 2 axis compass the user can't "stand still" because the compass will no longer be accurate with no direction of travel detected.

That's NOT the difference between a 2 axis and 3 axis compass. That's the difference between a unit that uses motion to create the pointer vs. one that has a real electronic compass chip inside.

 

The difference between the older 2 axis compass (as I had on my eTrex Summit HC) and the newer 3 axis model (as I have on my Oregon) is that they are not so particular about vertical orientation. The 2 axis models had to be held relatively flat, not always easy, but usually so, in order to give a proper reading. The newer 3 axis models don't car about a bit of tilt. Both can be used for obtaining a bearing to the cache automatically. You just need to hold a 2 axis unit a bit more carefully.

 

...and what about all the GPSs without a compass?

What about them? If there's no electronic compass chip, you won't using this technique. It's one of the reasons I won't buy a unit without this feature.

 

To all -- also do NOT become confused over the concept of "compass" vs. using the unit to take a bearing to the cache. It's the fact that there IS an internal electronic compass in some units that permits a person to stand and shoot the bearing. The compass allows the unit to know the orientation in which you're holding it in your hand, and create a bearing pointer to the cache from that.

[+dfx]

ECA, your method only works with a 3 axis compass. With a 2 axis compass the user can't "stand still" because the compass will no longer be accurate with no direction of travel detected.

Huh? Of course it does. The only difference is that with a 2-axis compass, you have to hold the unit level. Other than that, it works the same. What you're describing is how it works on units without an electronic compass.

 

...and what about all the GPSs without a compass?

 

If you have a compass, TURN IT OFF. Use only the Bearing pointer. Establish a line of travel (moving) to the coordinates (or maybe project a point onto a building wall). Back off and come at it from a different direction/starting point. Do it again....the intersection point of those lines established from different directions is "the point".

 

Really, it's DB simple......works every time.

Not sure what you're trying to get at here. How to do it on units that don't have a compass screen? Only a map screen? Or do you think it gives you better accuracy that way?

[+michaelnel]

ECA, your method only works with a 3 axis compass. With a 2 axis compass the user can't "stand still" because the compass will no longer be accurate with no direction of travel detected.

 

Many GPSRs such as the older GPSMap 60csx don't have a 3 axis compass, but they do have an electronic compass that works perfectly well while you're standing still... but you have to hold the GPSR level. With a 3 axis compass, you don't have to hold it level.

 

GPSRs with no electronic compass use the GPS track to establish direction, and those do NOT give accurate readings when stopped. That's why they have mostly been replaced by electronic compasses in newer units.

[Grasscatcher]

Yes, I miss-spoke on the 2 axis not working while standing still. (that's the politically correct way of saying I screwed up). Really, that's when it (the compass) works the most accurately..... but then on the 60-76 series with the QH antenna,which needed to be held vertically for GPS accuracy, the 2 axis compass wasn't accurate in that position. Catch 22.....

 

and DFX ...don't guess I remember ever seeing a GPS without a "compass" screen. I've seen lots of GPSs without a compass per se. That's just my personal experience going back to my old Eagle, 12XL, Map76, Map76S, Map76CS, Map76CSx, Oregon550, Map78S.

 

Personal opinion only....yes I do believe it improves accuracy, or at least it's less confusing, with the compass "off". What cardinal "compass" direction it is, is not important. When you are moving, the bearing pointer is pointing the direction to a specific coordinate location. If you are not moving,(stopping to take a compass bearing) then you are not getting any closer to the target anyway. It's just my opinion that the line needs to be established while moving and without any conflict caused by magnetic variation, or other errors.

 

My main point was that with the described procedure, anyone, with any GPS, 2axis compass or 3axis or NO compass can easily establish the true coordinate location.

 

I don't geocache, but hunt a lot of BMs and pins plotted from old plats and legal descriptions. Seldom do I find a pin or marker outside of a 3ft dia circle around a location established that way.

Many are buried and not found since the early 1900s. .....but of course I dont' have to worry about the original cache owners placing errors.

 

Anyway, it works for me.

[+ecanderson]

When you are moving, the bearing pointer is pointing the direction to a specific coordinate location. If you are not moving,(stopping to take a compass bearing) then you are not getting any closer to the target anyway. It's just my opinion that the line needs to be established while moving and without any conflict caused by magnetic variation, or other errors.

If the objective is triangulation, having to move to accomplish it slows down the process a bit. I tend to walk a radius around the suspect area, stopping at a few points, letting the bearing pointer settle, and from those points, draw a series of two or three or four mental lines, noting where they seem to be intersecting.

 

My main point was that with the described procedure, anyone, with any GPS, 2axis compass or 3axis or NO compass can easily establish the true coordinate location.

Depending upon where you are (and in your area, this must happen sometimes), you don't always want to be walking directly towards the objective. At times, I find myself trying to figure out how to even get to the objective! We do have some challenging terrain here.

 

I don't geocache, but hunt a lot of BMs and pins plotted from old plats and legal descriptions. Seldom do I find a pin or marker outside of a 3ft dia circle around a location established that way.

Many are buried and not found since the early 1900s. .....but of course I dont' have to worry about the original cache owners placing errors.

Until they've been re-verified by GPS, and given that they were often only specified to about a 100' level of precision to begin with (another decimal would have been great, but they weren't able to do that back then), the older ones often kill you if you try to use the coordinates. Using legal descriptions is a lot of fun, and does often wind up putting you a heck of a lot closer than the old coordinates.

[+michaelnel]

with the QH antenna,which needed to be held vertically for GPS accuracy

 

That's not true either. You may get the highest sensitivity with the antenna vertical, but certainly not the highest accuracy or precision. The 60 and 62 work great laid out horizontally, that doesn't affect accuracy or precision at all.

 

Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?

Edited July 31, 2011 by michaelnel

[+sofiecat]

I have had that happen. Re-calibrating the compass clears it up. One other thing that most GPS users do not understand is that to get your best accuracy, you must be moving. The second you stop your accuracy suffers. Try this. clear your track log, and then let your unit sit still for a few minuets. you will see it leaving a track log of about 10 meters in all directions, even though its not moving..........jack

[Grasscatcher]

with the QH antenna,which needed to be held vertically for GPS accuracy

 

That's not true either. You may get the highest sensitivity with the antenna vertical, but certainly not the highest accuracy or precision. The 60 and 62 work great laid out horizontally, that doesn't affect accuracy or precision at all.

 

Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?

 

Your reply is so inaccurate that it really doesn't warrant a response.

[Grasscatcher]

ECA,

Replying to your first point.. you should be "drawing" the first of those "mental lines" while you are moving to the target. Then when the bearing line reverses (telling you that you passed the target), do the same thing from a different direction.

 

It's a "concept" not a matter of hard fast rules.

 

moving on to your second point...I agree about the terrain and because of that, would you agree that it would be impossible to walk a circle around a BM on the edge of a cliff or at the base of a vertical wall where one of your steps, while walking in a circle, would have to be 500 ft down or up?

Again....concept,not rule.

 

Third point....I'm talking about BMs with "adjusted" coordinates. Their coordinates are more accurate than the accuracy your (and mine)GPS is capable of. Yes, some of the "scaled" monuments can be "fun", with descriptions referring to fence corners, that are now "long gone", 10" aspen tree (in 1934...what size now!), X ft from the NW corner of the (Family name)house....etc.

X ft from the C/L of the road....NO not the present road, the Old road..... DUH !

[+ecanderson]

ECA,

Replying to your first point.. you should be "drawing" the first of those "mental lines" while you are moving to the target. Then when the bearing line reverses (telling you that you passed the target), do the same thing from a different direction.

Ah - where I use this technique to its best advantage is where there IS NO "passing the target"! Looking back at most common use, it's when the readings are poor for precisely that reason - GZ is up against a cliff face or a bridge wall or something on that order. Triangulation isn't typically necessary if there aren't obstructions of those sorts messing with the GPS readings.

 

moving on to your second point...I agree about the terrain and because of that, would you agree that it would be impossible to walk a circle around a BM on the edge of a cliff or at the base of a vertical wall where one of your steps, while walking in a circle, would have to be 500 ft down or up?

We're passing each other in crossing here. Per above, the times I make use of triangulation are usually in just such circumstances as you describe, but isn't done from 360 degrees. Often, you can shoot bearings from about 180 degrees to the target - sometimes less. If I can do a full 360 of the target area at 30' or so, there's not much chance I'd be using the technique at all.

 

Third point....I'm talking about BMs with "adjusted" coordinates. Their coordinates are more accurate than the accuracy your (and mine)GPS is capable of.

You didn't mention searching markers with adjusted coordinates (which are usually spot on) in your earlier post, but rather, "...plotted from old plats and legal descriptions". The former is a piece of cake, but the latter is a very different (and fun), and can be a real challenge for just the reasons you describe. Sometimes it takes a lot more imagination than I've got to picture where some of the references were at the time of the description. It's why I never throw away old USGS maps that show building locations, etc. You never know when you'll wish you could know where something was that has long since gone to dust.

[+luvvinbird]

Yes, I miss-spoke on the 2 axis not working while standing still. (that's the politically correct way of saying I screwed up). Really, that's when it (the compass) works the most accurately..... but then on the 60-76 series with the QH antenna,which needed to be held vertically for GPS accuracy, the 2 axis compass wasn't accurate in that position. Catch 22.....

 

and DFX ...don't guess I remember ever seeing a GPS without a "compass" screen. I've seen lots of GPSs without a compass per se. That's just my personal experience going back to my old Eagle, 12XL, Map76, Map76S, Map76CS, Map76CSx, Oregon550, Map78S.

 

Personal opinion only....yes I do believe it improves accuracy, or at least it's less confusing, with the compass "off". What cardinal "compass" direction it is, is not important. When you are moving, the bearing pointer is pointing the direction to a specific coordinate location. If you are not moving,(stopping to take a compass bearing) then you are not getting any closer to the target anyway. It's just my opinion that the line needs to be established while moving and without any conflict caused by magnetic variation, or other errors.

 

My main point was that with the described procedure, anyone, with any GPS, 2axis compass or 3axis or NO compass can easily establish the true coordinate location.

 

I don't geocache, but hunt a lot of BMs and pins plotted from old plats and legal descriptions. Seldom do I find a pin or marker outside of a 3ft dia circle around a location established that way.

Many are buried and not found since the early 1900s. .....but of course I dont' have to worry about the original cache owners placing errors.

 

Anyway, it works for me.

I use two 60 series Garmins (60Cx, 60CSx) and the Garmin 62s. I think they all have the QH antenna but I've never held any of them vertically while geocaching. The 60CSx, for example, tells me to "hold level" (horizontal) when on the compass page. Vertical or horizontal, does it really make a difference with reception?

Edited July 31, 2011 by luvvinbird

[+ecanderson]

I have had that happen. Re-calibrating the compass clears it up. One other thing that most GPS users do not understand is that to get your best accuracy, you must be moving. The second you stop your accuracy suffers. Try this. clear your track log, and then let your unit sit still for a few minuets. you will see it leaving a track log of about 10 meters in all directions, even though its not moving..........jack

That's not what's actually happening, Jack. When you stand still, the coordinate drift errors that always exist for a given unit in a given time just become really obvious - although in clear skies with good PDOP, I have a Summit HC unit that can show a drift of no more than 0.001' in one direction in each axis (e.g., 0.000 to 0.001N with 0.000 to 0.001W or whichever way it goes that day) over the course of an hour. And no, they weren't fiddling with averages just to make it look like that on the Summit. It's still my best unit for that after all these years. I don't know why, either. My others certainly don't look THAT good with a track enabled. Anyway - whatever drift you have is immediately apparent when you're not moving.

 

However, when you're moving at a decent speed, the line is relatively smooth because the drift/error isn't instantaneous - it occurs over time as your stationary recorded track will show (plot position vs. time). When in motion, you'll see yourself wandering just a bit off the actual track from time to time in one direction and then another. Moreover, errors that coincide with either your bearing or directly against it won't show up at all except it to give the appearance that you have sped up or slowed down. A bit of trig will demonstrate that any error that isn't 90 degrees to your direction of motion will appear to be lessened by your motion and will be factored into speed vs. position.

 

If you're getting a 10 meter error radius in all directions from a stationary point, that's actually pretty poor for today's equipment if you're in relatively 'clean' GPS terrain. Is this under tree canopy, down in ravines, what?

Edited July 31, 2011 by ecanderson

[+michaelnel]

Vertical or horizontal, does it really make a difference with reception?

 

Very little that I can tell. And it doesn't affect precision or accuracy at all.

Edited July 31, 2011 by michaelnel

[+dfx]

My main point was that with the described procedure, anyone, with any GPS, 2axis compass or 3axis or NO compass can easily establish the true coordinate location.

 

No, you're establishing where the GPS thinks the coordinates are. This has nothing to do with "true coordinate location" and is in no way different than using a distance and bearing method as a geocacher usually does.

[+humboldt flier]

Instead of just describing, and naming a normal GPS action, why don't you "more experienced types" simply explain to the OP how easy it is to nullify it's effects.......where it no longer is a factor in finding the actual coordinate location?

 

And as has been stated, it is precision that's being discussed, not accuracy. Accuracy can be determined by comparison with an accurately surveyed "known location" like a Benchmark.

 

Well the bench mark at 4 corners is multi hundreds of feet off sooooooooooooooooooooooo go figure

[Grasscatcher]

Instead of just describing, and naming a normal GPS action, why don't you "more experienced types" simply explain to the OP how easy it is to nullify it's effects.......where it no longer is a factor in finding the actual coordinate location?

 

And as has been stated, it is precision that's being discussed, not accuracy. Accuracy can be determined by comparison with an accurately surveyed "known location" like a Benchmark.

 

Well the bench mark at 4 corners is multi hundreds of feet off sooooooooooooooooooooooo go figure

 

That's incorrect.......find out for yourself ...Google "Four Corners Monument" and then scroll down to "Why Four Corners Monument is exactly in the right place. www.ngs.noaa.gov/INFO/fourcorners.shtml

Edited August 1, 2011 by Grasscatcher

[Grasscatcher]

My main point was that with the described procedure, anyone, with any GPS, 2axis compass or 3axis or NO compass can easily establish the true coordinate location.

 

No, you're establishing where the GPS thinks the coordinates are. This has nothing to do with "true coordinate location" and is in no way different than using a distance and bearing method as a geocacher usually does.

 

Well, DUH...that's true for navigating to any point with a GPS. However,by "coming at it" from multiple different directions,and with the compass off, you are eliminating several errors and other "possible" errors. In essence, you are helping to clear up it's "thought process".

[Grasscatcher]

Vertical or horizontal, does it really make a difference with reception?

 

Very little that I can tell. And it doesn't affect precision or accuracy at all.

 

Do testing on your own and you will prove yourself to be incorrect.

[+michaelnel]

I have, with a 60csx and a 62s, and it makes a little difference in sensitivity, none in prec/acc. None at all. Zero. Nada.

[Grasscatcher]

I have, with a 60csx and a 62s, and it makes a little difference in sensitivity, none in prec/acc. None at all. Zero. Nada.

 

With information backup from Garmin, I stand by my original statement, but you are free to hold yours however you want.

 

End of subject.