What is a geocache?

[+tazclimber]

My wife and I (tazclimber) have been caching several years. Today while caching a question arose. We found 3 caches that were well hidden a FTF on one. The hints on all 3 were so detailed we didn't even turn on the GPS. Is this really geocaching? Are these really caches or just hide and seek? We enjoyed all of them and the hike through the forest but really like harder hides.

[+LukeTrocity]

Maybe while they were easy for someone expierenced such as yourself, a noob may find them challenging.

[+StarBrand]

So - don't read the hint until you have looked and need a little more help. Sounds like you had fun anyway. The hike alone was likely worthwhile - any caches are just bonus'.

[+Sol seaker]

So - don't read the hint until you have looked and need a little more help. Sounds like you had fun anyway. The hike alone was likely worthwhile - any caches are just bonus'.

 

+1

 

Just don't read the hints

[+briansnat]

Not a getting started issue. Moving to the general forum.

[+Geoscouts.eu]

+2 Yep, hints are a last resort which is why they are encrypted.

 

If you didn't turn the GPS on then you didn't go geocaching really. You went on a treasure hunt and that's what you got.

[+Chief301]

I concur with the others...if you don't want the hints to give it away, don't use them. As a relative noob, I appreciate the hints.

 

I did find one evil little nano using only the description and hint, didn't use the GPS at all. But in that case, I was glad to have the hint, because it was in the middle of a busy shopping mall (a couple of weeks before Christmas, no less), and it would have been hard to manage a normal navigate-and-search because of all the muggles. Using the hint I was able to have a seat on the bench and oh so nonchalantly grab the cache without stirring the slightest bit of attention. So in that case, I felt pretty slick about using the hint My kids were quite impressed...

Edited February 1, 2011 by Chief301

[+calamitystrange]

i have often wondered that myself. although i agree, if you don't want the hint, just don't read it. there are a LOT of caches in the area i live that the hint tells you precisely where the cache is once you get to the location. for instance: "under bench, left end, magnetic" i prefer caches that are a bit harder to find, and the hint is more like a "clue" than a give-away. i am not passing judgement on how others make their caches, i just choose to make my hints a little less obvious, 'cuz that's the way i like it.

Edited February 1, 2011 by calamitystrange

[GOF and Bacall]

i have often wondered that myself. although i agree, if you don't want the hint, just don't read it. there are a LOT of caches in the area i live that the hint tells you precisely where the cache is once you get to the location. for instance: "under bench, left end, magnetic" i prefer caches that are a bit harder to find, and the hint is more like a "clue" than a give-away. i am not passing judgement on how others make their caches, i just choose to make my hints a little less obvious, 'cuz that's the way i like it.

 

If you make them too much "less obvious" they stop being hints. On caches that I use hints for I like to make them less than a dead give away but obvious enough that the searcher still finds the cache. If they are so vague that they don't help they are pointless.

 

The best hints out there are those that make no sense until you get there and they are suddenly blindingly obvious.

[+kunarion]

Are these really caches or just hide and seek? We enjoyed all of them and the hike through the forest but really like harder hides.

But many people prefer the view, and would rather not have a tough time finding. You've got to check the difficulty rating and even logs, and decide if it's challenging enough for your tastes. As others mentioned, don't read the hint.

 

I concealed my containers for only one reason: to prevent non-cachers from immediately spotting the container if they pass by. My hints are somewhat cryptic, but designed to make it much easier to find.

Edited February 1, 2011 by kunarion

[+the4dirtydogs]

+2 Yep, hints are a last resort which is why they are encrypted.

 

If you didn't turn the GPS on then you didn't go geocaching really. You went on a treasure hunt and that's what you got.

I know someone who uses maps and a compass to geocache. Tell him that he's not geocaching.

 

Like the others have said, don;t read the hints until you think you need them. I'm with GOF on the thought that the hint hits you when you find the cache. I've always liked those hints. We put hints in the title of our caches sometimes. I like reading the logs saying, should have paid more attention to the title to save some time searching.

[RukuTheWolf]

I know what you mean though, some hints are a bit too precise 'Its under the log next to the wall' they should be a hint not a direction to where it is.

[+dfx]

My wife and I (tazclimber) have been caching several years. Today while caching a question arose. We found 3 caches that were well hidden a FTF on one. The hints on all 3 were so detailed we didn't even turn on the GPS. Is this really geocaching? Are these really caches or just hide and seek? We enjoyed all of them and the hike through the forest but really like harder hides.

 

I'd say if it's a container at a known geographic location, then it's a geocache. You don't have to use the coordinates or even GPS to find it, but you could. You could argue that if you're not using the coords, then you're not geocaching, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a geocache.

Edited February 1, 2011 by dfx

[+Avernar]

i just choose to make my hints a little less obvious

On a difficult hide I make my hints more obvious. The reason is to keep finders from ripping apart the area looking for it and it also makes it easier for the finders to determine if it's missing. On an easy hide I make them a little less obvious but still specific. None of the "in a tree" nonsense for a cache hidden in a forest.

 

Like G&B wrote, it'll be 100% obvious once you're there and look at the right thing. Here's a log excerpt from one of my caches: "Hint took a while to sink in, but then I was laughing about it for a while!"

[neduet]

yeah right...

[+dfx]

yeah right...

 

Interesting point you're making there. Not sure if I can agree, but thanks for sharing.

[Clan Riffster]

What is a geocache?

According to my profile, the following are all geocaches:

A bunch of nerds eating hotwings.

A digital camera streaming live to the Internet.

A roadside plaque.

A bunch of geeks picking up litter.

A sinkhole.

 

However, a brass disk set into concrete is not a cache.

[+Happy Humphrey]

The last three I found were by getting to the general area then using the hint. If GPS was required to make the find "geocaching"; then where would you draw the line?

If the description could be used to deduce the exact position, then is it still a geocache? Or would it depend on how clear that is (perhaps it gives it away, but perhaps you never read it).

In any case, I agree that the main point of concealing a cache is to prevent muggle discovery. So it follows that the hint can be as much of a giveaway as you can manage, with the assumption that GPS gets you to within a certain radius of the cache. IMO it should also allow you to be fairly sure that you've actually checked the correct place, so that if you can't find the box after a good search you can warn others that there's a problem.

[+KI4HLW]

I agree with the others, hints are encrypted so you don't read them unless you fully intend to. My general rule is I don't read the hint unless I am ready to walk away, but I like a challenge.

 

I know what you mean though, some hints are a bit too precise 'Its under the log next to the wall' they should be a hint not a direction to where it is.

 

Some days I'd kill for that hint, here is what we tend to get locally:

 

"It's there" = irony dictates that whenever I see this hint it will turn up it is actually missing.

 

"It's a little goat, fake bird, toy truck, etc. etc. etc." = thanks, I had seen that fake bird in the tree 6 times already but never thought it may be the cache.... does this really happen to anyone who has found more then half a dozen caches? I can see if it is a fake rock maybe...

 

"No hint needed, everything you need is out there" = really? So why did I just spend 30 minutes looking and finally decide I needed the hint? (This one I once got on a 5 terrain cache that I had to climb, low crawl, go through mud for over an hour to get to.... old GPS had no descriptions and no way I was bringing cell phone on that expedition so I got the added bonus of having to decode this one by hand on the cache page I had printed.

[+KI4HLW]

I'm with GOF on the thought that the hint hits you when you find the cache. I've always liked those hints.

 

I've always had to ask, is it really a hint if it does not make any sense till after you find the cache? That just sounds like a good joke you are robbing those who don't use the hint from seeing. I include that stuff in my cache description.

[+Avernar]

According to my profile, the following are all geocaches:

A bunch of nerds eating hotwings.

A digital camera streaming live to the Internet.

A roadside plaque.

A bunch of geeks picking up litter.

A sinkhole.

Yes, we all know that you believe that if it doesn't fit the dictionary definition of cache it's not a cache.

 

I'm quite sure that you or someone else can make a greasemonkey script to redraw the table on the profile page to group physical and non-physical listings separately and compute the totals for each group.

 

However, a brass disk set into concrete is not a cache.

They weren't listed by a geocacher but imported from an external database.

[7rxc]

I'm with GOF on the thought that the hint hits you when you find the cache. I've always liked those hints.

 

I've always had to ask, is it really a hint if it does not make any sense till after you find the cache? That just sounds like a good joke you are robbing those who don't use the hint from seeing. I include that stuff in my cache description.

 

It makes more sense if you replace cache with Ground Zero... or posted Coordinates... Just an opinion though.

 

A hint should make sense when you are there, not always when you are somewhere else. Perhaps the nature of the hint should be related to the difficulty rating... explicit for low level, less obvious for higher ratings.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+dfx]

If the description could be used to deduce the exact position, then is it still a geocache?

 

Of course, just look at the "letterbox hybrid" category. A lot of those listings are proper letterboxes, i.e. they contain letterbox-style instructions on how to find the box, totally without GPS. But they also give you the coordinates to the box, which makes the box also a geocache. thus "hybrid".

[+sbell111]

However, a brass disk set into concrete is not a cache.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

[Dj Storm]

For caches placed at the end of a significant hike, I would prefer the hints to be at least helpful. When I spend a couple of hours getting to the cache, I hate leaving without a find because the hint doesn't help. Chances are most people who came to search for it don't live at the trailhead, they had to travel in addition to the hike.

For micro and nano urban caches, hidden in muggle rich areas, I want the cache to have either a clear hint or a high difficulty. If I travel to another town/county/country and have little time to cache, I would hate to spend it looking for a cache I might not be able to find.

Caches hidden in sensitive areas benefit from a good hint, this way cachers wouldn't trash the area during the search.

 

There's nothing wrong in having clues that only provide half a nudge in the right direction, as long as there are easier caches available nearby. A difficult cache with a cryptic clue at the end of a 4 hours hike might ruin someone's day. Same cache on the same trail, with 4-5 other caches along the trail it's OK. Difficult urban hides that require days to find are also OK, as long as they're the exception and not the rule.

[+Avernar]

I've always had to ask, is it really a hint if it does not make any sense till after you find the cache? That just sounds like a good joke you are robbing those who don't use the hint from seeing. I include that stuff in my cache description.

The hint should be valid before you find it. It's kind of like hearing a joke, you're thinking one thing before the punchline and something else after the punchline.

 

With the hint, it doesn't make sense until you're near the cache. Then it becomes obvious. There are other times when you misinterpret the hint and only realize you assumed the wrong thing after you find the cache.

[+sbell111]

If the description could be used to deduce the exact position, then is it still a geocache?

 

Of course, just look at the "letterbox hybrid" category. A lot of those listings are proper letterboxes, i.e. they contain letterbox-style instructions on how to find the box, totally without GPS. But they also give you the coordinates to the box, which makes the box also a geocache. thus "hybrid".

I believe that you are mistaken.

 

From the guidelines:

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt. A letterbox hybrid cannot be designed to be found using only clues.

Edited February 2, 2011 by sbell111

[+TerraViators]

Pet peeve: posting something in the hint field that is not a hint.

 

As far as the cache page, I rarely read them until I log the cache. I just have no interest in reading it until the hunt is complete.