New COs who have never found a cache

[+L0ne.R]

Recently in our area, a classroom of high school kids started hiding caches - it's a class project. Each kid has no finds. None of the coordinates have been accurate. One was 500m (1600 feet) away. Most are about 50-80 meters (160-260 feet) off. It appears that they are using Google Earth/Google Maps to get their coordinates, and not checking the maps to see where those coords land. The 500m mistake put the coords in a swamp when the cache description said it was in a playground - looking at the geo map made it pretty obvious the coords were off by a long shot.

 

In the last couple of years this is happening on a regular basis....people planting who have signed up, planted a box within a month of signing, no finds, bad coordinates - so bad that it's pretty obvious that they are likely using an online mapping program to get those coords.

 

Honest, constructive feedback in the logs is having little to no effect. Each subsequent new hide follows the same pattern. Is this something that should just be shrugged off, as an unfortunate consequence of the availability of online mapping services?

[+zoltig]

Recently in our area, a classroom of high school kids started hiding caches - it's a class project. Each kid has no finds. None of the coordinates have been accurate. One was 500m (1600 feet) away. Most are about 50-80 meters (160-260 feet) off. It appears that they are using Google Earth/Google Maps to get their coordinates, and not checking the maps to see where those coords land. The 500m mistake put the coords in a swamp when the cache description said it was in a playground - looking at the geo map made it pretty obvious the coords were off by a long shot.

 

In the last couple of years this is happening on a regular basis....people planting who have signed up, planted a box within a month of signing, no finds, bad coordinates - so bad that it's pretty obvious that they are likely using an online mapping program to get those coords.

 

Honest, constructive feedback in the logs is having little to no effect. Each subsequent new hide follows the same pattern. Is this something that should just be shrugged off, as an unfortunate consequence of the availability of online mapping services?

 

From the Hide a Cache guidelines:

 

You as the owner of the cache must visit the site and obtain the coordinates with a GPS. GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

 

 

Apparently they check the 'Read Guidelines' box and didn't really read them.

[+u.rusty]

There may be other reasons.

 

Example

[+wiseye]

Can you contact the school or teacher involved?

[+L0ne.R]

Can you contact the school or teacher involved?

 

I don't know who the teacher is, but from reading the logs, one of the finders has communicated with the teacher. I don't know any details though. I'm guessing the teacher had them use online maps to get the coords.

 

A couple of finders that have sacrificed their time and gas money, have done an exemplary service of providing constructive feedback. But the way the game is currently played there's nothing to prevent this from happening and nothing (except NA I suppose) to do to deal with this sort of thing, after the fact. Would be nice if it was nipped in the bud before these things even got posted.

[knowschad]

I'm sure the listed cache owner would be the teacher. Should be easy to contact. Perhaps you can meet with him/her to discuss your concerns and maybe offer your assistance. The other route would be to discuss the situation and your concerns with your reviewer.

[jholly]

Recently in our area, a classroom of high school kids started hiding caches - it's a class project. Each kid has no finds. None of the coordinates have been accurate. One was 500m (1600 feet) away. Most are about 50-80 meters (160-260 feet) off. It appears that they are using Google Earth/Google Maps to get their coordinates, and not checking the maps to see where those coords land. The 500m mistake put the coords in a swamp when the cache description said it was in a playground - looking at the geo map made it pretty obvious the coords were off by a long shot.

 

In the last couple of years this is happening on a regular basis....people planting who have signed up, planted a box within a month of signing, no finds, bad coordinates - so bad that it's pretty obvious that they are likely using an online mapping program to get those coords.

 

Honest, constructive feedback in the logs is having little to no effect. Each subsequent new hide follows the same pattern. Is this something that should just be shrugged off, as an unfortunate consequence of the availability of online mapping services?

If this happens on a regular basis the best feedback mechanism would probably be the Needs Archive log.

[+Scooter Rider]

Another thing folks seem to forget is Google Earth/Google Maps are some what dated

 

Had a Google sat map show a cache in the middle of a corn field.

When in fact it was a skirt lifter in a parking lot that has been there for two years.

[+briansnat]

If they are all coming from the same account you might want to give the reviewer a heads up.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

If they are coming from the same IP address (the school), see if Groundspeak can block it.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

Another thing folks seem to forget is Google Earth/Google Maps are some what dated

 

Had a Google sat map show a cache in the middle of a corn field.

When in fact it was a skirt lifter in a parking lot that has been there for two years.

 

Heh. My memory is somewhat dated, just like Google satellite view. Saw a cache hidden in what I knew to be a vacant field, and Google satellite view showed to be a vacant field. Someone built a center for consumerism while I was out of the country. Cache was hanging in a newly planted tree at the edge of the parkinglot.

[+hikerT]

All the caches in this area the OP is referring to are accounts with 0 finds, 1 hide, with the account opened the day before the cache was hidden. The teacher has his own account and posts a note after the deluge of DNF's flood in after publication, saying he will notify the CO to the cache issue. I doubt any of these kids will bother to maintain their caches for any length of time. The best thing would have been for the teacher to check placement of each cache before publication, and publish them under his own account.

[+L0ne.R]

I'm sure the listed cache owner would be the teacher. Should be easy to contact. Perhaps you can meet with him/her to discuss your concerns and maybe offer your assistance. The other route would be to discuss the situation and your concerns with your reviewer.

 

The teacher is not the owner. Each kid signs up for their own account and plants a cache under their own trailname. The school and teacher are not named. But there is reliable information from another cacher that this is a class project. The other cacher has been in contact with at least one of the students (coords took people to the kids driveway so the cacher spoke to the parents and kid who escorted the cachers to the cache via their property) and the teacher. I don't know what the conversation was with the teacher but the caches continue to be published, last one (planted Oct 7) was 80m away from published coords.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Lone R

[+L0ne.R]

All the caches in this area the OP is referring to are accounts with 0 finds, 1 hide, with the account opened the day before the cache was hidden. The teacher has his own account and posts a note after the deluge of DNF's flood in after publication, saying he will notify the CO to the cache issue. I doubt any of these kids will bother to maintain their caches for any length of time. The best thing would have been for the teacher to check placement of each cache before publication, and publish them under his own account.

 

Thanks for the extra info Hiker T. Nice to have it confirmed that the teacher is aware of the issue. It's unfortunate that he's taught them wrong and isn't fixing the problem.

[+OldLog]

So this is the quality teaching experience we are providing our students.

[+Coldgears]

Whats worse? This or geocachers-for-a-day?

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

So this is the quality teaching experience we Canadians are providing our their students.

[+Coldgears]

So this is the quality teaching experience we America's Hat are providing our their students.

[GOF and Bacall]

Is this all that big a deal? Just wait for your local FTF hounds to vet any new cache before you waste your energy on it. That's what they are there for.

[+L0ne.R]

Is this all that big a deal? Just wait for your local FTF hounds to vet any new cache before you waste your energy on it. That's what they are there for.

 

FTF hounds are a dying breed around here, especially if the cache is planted by a 0 finds-1 hide planter. I wait for a local cacher who's willing to sacrifice himself for the good of the community. I know he's going to provide some very useful feedback in his logs. But why should he have to be the guinea pig? Anyway, I appreciate his call to duty.

 

The problem, as I see it is:

• the teacher is sending a blight unto the land
  
• this is a recurring problem with teachers and children's group leaders - give the kids an assignment, have them create their own accounts, never check the cache before publication, never check the cache after publication. Let the responsibility for the cache fall solely on the kid.
  
• what are the kids getting out of this assignment? A respect for the environment? Sending people to the wrong area to search extensively for a cache that isn't there may result in degradation of that environment. An understanding of mapping software? They're not even double checking the pointer on Google Maps or they'd see that it's not pointing anywhere close to the right spot. An understanding of gps units? Doesn't even look like they're using a gps unit. A respect for cache finders time and money and well-being? A wild goose chase shows no consideration for the finder.
  
• guidelines are not followed wrt using a dedicated gpsr. But some of the kids blamed bad batteries for their bad coords (can bad batteries really be blamed for an 80m (200 foot) error? And then when they change the coords it's still 50m off. None of the kids actually said in their cache description or in their logs that they used online maps, so how does a reviewer deal with a suspected non-compliance? The reviewer published the one where the coords pointed to a swamp when the description said small playground (cache was over 500m (1800 feet) away and found by searching the small playground - the CO posted the playground's name).
  
• if someone finds a nice spot less than .1 miles from that spot in the swamp they won't be able to plant (at least until the CO updates his coords or his cache gets archived - which could be months). Someone could come along and plant right next to the cache in the small playground because apparently there is no cache planted there.
  
• it makes a reviewers job harder (they must hold their nose while pushing the publish button, a lot)
  
• finders get frustrated, the geocaching past time degrades
  

Edited October 9, 2010 by Lone R

[+t4e]

So this is the quality teaching experience we Canadians are providing our their students.

 

yeah right, as if the american school system is any better

but its irrelevant to the discussion

 

we have the same problem in the area i live

 

one even acknowledges the coordinates are wrong lmao...my question is why do the reviewers publish those caches?

 

It is in the big parking lot it is not very hard to find you need your own pencil

 

It's a small plastic container with black maker on the lid you need your pencil, the map may not be right on but go into the park lot with the brown town houses in the far parking lot

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a1-1c2182218f2a

[Keystone]

my question is why do the reviewers publish those caches?

Reviewers publish caches that meet the listing guidelines. They do not physically check the location prior to publication. Many times, a reviewer will catch a coordinate error because the cache page description does not match up with the location shown on the map and aerial photo links. But, there's a limit to this. A reviewer can't normally tell if the coordinates are off by 100 feet, putting the cache on the wrong side of the parking lot.

 

It's the cache owner's job to provide coordinates that are as accurate as possible, and to correct them if the coords are reported to be inaccurate.

[+Team MacKenzie]

It isn't only students who do this type of shoddy placement though!

 

We had one published here a couple of months ago by a 1 hide cacher. The description was so exact that I knew exactly which corner of the backroads he was talking about.

 

When I pulled up the google mapping, the co-ordinates showed it to be about 4 miles ATCF and a good half mile off the closest road with no trail to it and a swamp between it and civilization.

 

The description had it within 40' of an existing cache. Had the CO's co-ordinates been accurate it would never have been published.

 

The FTF used the description rather than the co-ordinates to find it and did the other cache at the same time...

 

We let a reviewer take care of it.

[+t4e]

my question is why do the reviewers publish those caches?

Reviewers publish caches that meet the listing guidelines. They do not physically check the location prior to publication. Many times, a reviewer will catch a coordinate error because the cache page description does not match up with the location shown on the map and aerial photo links. But, there's a limit to this. A reviewer can't normally tell if the coordinates are off by 100 feet, putting the cache on the wrong side of the parking lot.

 

It's the cache owner's job to provide coordinates that are as accurate as possible, and to correct them if the coords are reported to be inaccurate.

 

this one case is based on the wording i bolded on the cache listing, which to me will be a reason to be suspicious as to the accuracy of the coordinates, as well as a quick glance at the google maps which puts the cache pretty much on a car in a parking spot

 

even people that do not visit the forums and not aware of the many suggestions that hides from new cachers be somehow controlled, are starting to make such suggestions

Edited October 10, 2010 by t4e

[+dfx]

Apparently they check the 'Read Guidelines' box and didn't really read them.

we all know that it's their fault, but that's hardly a solution to the problem for the rest of us.

[+power69]

oh i HATE that.

theres one here doing that so i just put their hides on ignore

[+ZeLonewolf]

Fortunately, the system allows you to see if a hider doesn't have any finds!

[+t4e]

Fortunately, the system allows you to see if a hider doesn't have any finds!

 

how does that solve the problem?

 

its just a band-aid