u.rusty

I thought about what I could use to sign the log, but didn't really have anything handy. I really didn't want to sign with charcoal or blood, although there was a little blood available later in the hike. I scraped my hand on a dried out branch on the way back drawing a little blood, nothing serious though. OK, now I feel really stupid! After reading the creative methods that have been employed to sign cache logs, I just thought of something. There was a cache about a half mile up the trail with a pencil that I could have borrowed. Duh! Oh well. I would have had to finish the hike after sunset if I went back to the other cache to borrow the pencil, but I did have a good flashlight, so it was a possibility. I'll be stocking pencils in my pack from now on. As far as using a photograph, yes it is proof that I found the cache. But it isn't signing the log. Geocaching is a game, all games have rules, one primary rule that I like to follow is that I must sign the log in order to log the find. I'm no Geocaching puritan, it's just how I like to play the game. Heck, there have been times that I enjoyed the hike so much that I completely skipped the Geocaches, and other times that caches brought me to very cool places that I would probably never have gone to otherwise. Like any game, you learn as you go...today's lesson (for me) always bring something to write with!

It was too far for me. About 2.5 miles with a couple stream crossings that required removing your boots if you want to keep them dry. As it was I got back to the trail head right at sunset, so there really wasn't time. But, you live and you learn they say. I'll be sure to bring something to write with next time. It is a beautiful spot, with more caches further down the trail from my turn around point...I'll be back. It was just that feeling when I found the cache, then realized I couldn't sign it!

Found this cache yesterday, but can't log it because I forgot a pen! Darn it! Oh well, I can visit it again later.

...Why does that automatically mean that those who disagree with him are upset? It doesn't. It just seems to me that it upsets some people, judging by their replies. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Perhaps I'm just too sensitive. I'm just surprised by the responses.

Spoken like a true grasshopper. A Shaolin geocacher can walk through walls...looked for, he can not be seen... ;-)

The point is to enjoy finding the final cache. If you don't enjoy multi caches don't look for multi caches. Everyone is different, I have spent 5 to 6 hours hiking to get two caches. I consider those two caches much more enjoyable that the eight caches that I found on the hike the day before. But, that's me, your geocaching mileage may vary. The one multi that I've hunted, I found the first stage, got the coordinates for the second stage, but couldn't find it. Darn! I think the idea is cool though. I enjoyed the multi-cache DNF anyway. [Edit] I see that MR57 has replied as I was typing this. I gotta start typing faster! No battle to lose. I'm glad to see you have a good attitude MR57, may you find every cache that you search for! [End edit]

Wow! I'm really surprised at the negative responses. Different people play the game differently. I can't speak for the original poster, but if he isn't concerned with signing the log, I would be surprised if he is concerned with the cache owner deleting an online log. The enjoyment may simply be the hunt for the cache. I don't understand why this seems to upset some people.

That's one of the cool things about geocaching, you don't have to play the game the way everyone else does. I always open the caches that I find, sign the log and take a photograph of the cache. I log the cache finds in my personal log book rather than online, although I do log DNFs online. I've had a couple times that I was enjoying the hike I was on so much that I didn't even look for the caches as I got near. Sometimes I find that geocaching takes a backseat to the hiking adventure.

By moderators, do you mean the cache reviewers? The way I see it, correct me if I'm wrong, is that we are more or less a self regulating community. The cache owner is responsible for placing and maintaining the cache properly. The cache reviewers are members of the geocaching community, most of which if not all are volunteers, are responsible for checking proposed caches to be sure that they are up to the guidelines. Also, as geocachers it is our responsibility to report caches that are not up to the guidelines. Reporting a geocache might mean sending a email to the cache owner, notifying the cache reviewer, or even calling local law enforcement depending upon the nature of the inappropriate cache. (As an example: If I found a firearm in a cache, I would notify law enforcement.) It seems to me: 1) The cache owner failed to place the cache within guidelines. 2) The cache reviewer failed to notice the cache was near a school. 3) The geocachers that logged a find at the cache failed to take into account that it was too close to a school and take corrective action by reporting the fact. 4) Groundspeak may want to review the guidelines for geocachers that want to become cache reviewers and/or address the situation if there don't seem to be enough cache reviewers. 5) The geocachers that are following this thread should take note. How can this be prevented from happening again. What can we learn from the mistakes here. So, I have to agree that the cache reviewer should not have approved this cache, but the reviewer is not the only one to blame. It appears that the cache owner and the geocachers that logged the cache near a school as a find would also benefit from some geocaching re-education. Don't get me wrong. I think your idea of keeping law enforcement in the loop and informed about geocaching is a good idea. I don't know how much difference that would have made in this situation, but it's still a good idea. I just think that we need to keep in mind that we are a community and that we have to work together to help keep the game fun and safe.

Looking it up on geocaching.com would provide law enforcement with the information, in this case, that it is most probably just a geocache. But, that doesn't change the fact that they will, and should, render what may be a bomb harmless by the safest means avalible to them. Bottom line - Never place a geocache on or near a school!

Wow! I am very pleasantly surprised at the number and quality of the replies to my question. Thank you all for replying! Cache owners go to much more trouble than I thought to obtain accurate coordinates. I, for one, appreciate the work that cache owners go to in order to place a cache well. Those of us that are newbies (myself included) should take note. One of the common complains, it seems to me, involving new geocachers placing their first cache or caches, involves poor coordinates. Hopefully, those of us that are new (me) will learn some good methods here that should help improve our ability to determine good coordinates much the enjoyment of other geocachers. Averaging, by the GPSr or manually, appears to be a common method. Testing the coordinates by finding them yourself a few times after moving a distance away from ground zero appears to be a good way to confirm reasonable accuracy. Playing around with my Garmin GPSmap 60CSx, I seem to get good results just using waypoint averaging over about 30 seconds. But, I am going to try some of the other methods described in this thread to see how I can obtain better results.

I prefer caches that require me to walk. I usually drive to a trailhead and hike along a trail with several caches along it. I've considered moutain biking along some trails that allow it but with the 25 to 30 pounds of gear I like to haul around with me, hiking seems to be the most practical method. I have however searched for a few caches while out on long road bicycle rides.

I am surprised by the number of caches I find that are within arms length of ground zero, as indicated by my GPSr. I am curious what methods are commonly used to determine ground zero for your cache. Here is a list of a few methods that might work: Using waymark averaging, assuming that your GPSr has that feature. Choosing coordinates then finding the spot with your GPSr. (Obviously, this would only work under certain circumstances, such as just off the side of a trail in the field.) Recording the coordinates several times and averaging. What method do you use?

I used a gel pen for a while without any problems. I use a Pelikan 200 series fountain pen with Noodler's Legal Lapis ink these days. Not necessarily the best choice of pen for hauling around when hiking, but once the Noodler's ink drys it won't run or wash off if the log gets wet.

There may be other reasons. Example

It certainly is a shame that so many Geocoins get stolen. I can understand someone wanting to send out a 'copy' of a geocoin so that the real one doesn't get stolen, but at the same time I won't move them along. I personally have no problem with someone placing a proxy coin. They just don't hold any interest for me. Geocoins command a certain amount of respect from me. Partly because the coin owner knows that the coin is at risk. Because of that, I keep GCs and TBs that I have picked up setting in front of my computer monitor to remind me that they belong in a cache and not in my possession. I respect them and try to place them quickly and well. Proxy coins just don't seem worth the trouble, at least for me.

I don't care for micros, in trees or elsewhere, but I ran across one in an oaktree that made me laugh and applaud the CO. Of course, it is the only tree micro cache that I have logged, but I did really enjoy it.

I have been amazed at the number of caches (of the few that I have found) that were in arm's reach of GZ as indicated by my GPSr. If I don't spot the cache right off, I usually mark the spot by placing my trekking poles and work out from there. I found one cache at about 15' from indicated GZ, the rest were closer. Of course, I don't find every cache. If the coordinates are deliberately off, say within a 50' circle, chances are I wouldn't find it and would post a DNF. I think that the coordinates should be as accurate as possible, and the method of concealment or camouflage should be what make the cache hard to find.

The CO hid one cache and quit caching. When I found that cache it looked like this Not only that. The cache was not hidden at the posted coordinates. When it was hidden, it was not all that uncommon to have a traditional cache that was offset somewhat from the posted coordinates. In this case you had to decrypt the encrypted hint to even have a chance of finding the cache. The example you gave is a perfect example for not allowing newbies to hide caches. If the person who hid this had not, someone else would have eventually hid one on the top of that mountain - which is really the only thing special about that cache. And given the two trails to the top now marked with other caches, it really isn't that special of a cache anymore - only old. The ammo can that I hid has been there 6 and 2/3 years (more than twice as long as the crummy tupperware placed by a newbie hider with no experience and no interest in maintaining a cache). And though it might get me a warning - I will say it anyways - you are an idiot to go after that cache today - the hottest day so far this year. I'm glad you made it back ok and didn't need to be rescued. After reading through the log for Gods Eye View, I see your point. While the location was good, the coordinates and maintenance were definately lacking. I appriciate you replacing the cache container, it seems to have held up these past 6 plus years. I have to admit that I was idiotic going for that cache yesterday. (You shouldn't get a warning for saying something that is true.) But, it wasn't like I was totally unprepared I had plenty of water, and plenty of support equipment including a couple forms of communication. I am not unaccustomed to hiking in hot weather, heck two days before finding Gods Eye View I spent six hours hiking eight and a half miles in the heat. In fact, I remember seeing your signature at the Tucked Away cache. I stand corrected. GEV isn't the best example of a great cache placed by someone with few finds. Also, I intend to be less idiotic while caching in the future.

Déjà vu!

I found Gods Eye View today. While logging my find, I discovered that the CO has only found one cache and placed one cache. I can tell you first hand that this is a truly awesome cache. As for me, I'm at 77 finds and still learning...

This is a very interesting thread! As a neocacher, I figured I would wait until I've logged about hundred finds mostly so that I can form a good idea as to the nature of the cache I would like to place. That doesn't mean that I think it should be a requirement. People are different, some people like certain types of caches, other people like other types of caches. That part of what makes geocaching so cool, it has something for almost everyone. One of the first things that I learned was that I didn't want to search for every cache in my area. After I found two lamp post caches, I later walked up to GZ of another nearby cache and found a lamp post. I just set my GPSr for the next cache and left. Since then, I have learned to examine the cache pages and area so that I can choose which caches to look for and which ones I want to skip. I find that I like caches that require a hike, especially if the hike is somewhat difficult, but that's just my preference. I wouldn't want to impose that on others that may really like caching from their car. As I have been developing my geosense and cache preferences I am still forming ideas as to the placement of a cache and it's theme. While I have a pretty good idea at to what type and where I would like to place my first cache, I still don't think that I am ready. But, again, I don't think that waiting like I am should be imposed on other cachers. The way that I see it, I don't have to look for the PQC (poor quality caches), whatever that may be to me. Part of my learning process has been figuring out what caches I enjoy searching for the most. Unless someone has changed the rules and there is a big cash reward for having lots of cache finds, the number of caches that I have found really doesn't mean much to me. I would vote no, not everyone is the same, look at LordBritish he only has one find (as of this posting) but is the CO of four of the most amazing caches.

I heard about a Geo-thief that was caught in Germany with the use of a very small remote camera looking at the cache. (Of course, you would be risking loss of the camera as well as whats in the cache.

Wow! I'm such a neocacher! I finally got my first FTF today. I can't even imagine getting 23 in one day!

That's cool! Bucket&Boomer, mystery is part of geocaching...at least for me! This is one of the most interesting stories I've read on the forum yet!