Notes and GPX

[+tower27]

Hello,

 

is it possible to integrate the new personal notes into my GPX-files, so I can read these (my) notes on my GPSr ?

 

Thomas

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Hello,

 

is it possible to integrate the new personal notes into my GPX-files, so I can read these (my) notes on my GPSr ?

 

Thomas

 

The answer is almost certainly *no* at this point.

 

First, the personal notes field would have be included in one of the elements or as an attribute of an element in a the GPX output.

 

Even if it is included, it's unlikely that any waypoint managers such as easyGPS or GSAK parse that element yet and even if they, current GPS units wouldn't know that the information exists so wouldn't be able to grab the content to display it. Theoretically, something like a GSAK macro could parse that information (assuming it's available in the gsak file) and append it to the long description, but then only GPS units which display the long description could display it.

 

I just saw the personal note for the first time this morning and it looks like it could be useful. I've been playing with a content management system for creating a personal site that would act as a waypoint manager. So far I can injest a pocket query and display each waypoint as a page and on a map using openlayers. I'll have to take a look at the latest GPX format to see if I can included that information on the site.

[+rob3k]

I would like to see them added to the GPX file, but at least they did add them. Not sure if I'll use these new personal notes or continue to keep a private bookmark list to track solved puzzles online.

 

I and many other cachers have requested something similar to this many times and it's nice to see something implemented.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I would like to see them added to the GPX file, but at least they did add them. Not sure if I'll use these new personal notes or continue to keep a private bookmark list to track solved puzzles online.

 

You can use both features together. Bookmark any puzzle caches you've solve then add the corrected coordinates as a personal note.

 

From what I could see in a GPX file for a cache in which I've logged a personal note I don't see it as an element or attribute of an element. Since GS just recently released a new version of the Groundspeak GPX extensions It's probably unlikely that it'll update again soon.

[+fizzymagic]

First, the personal notes field would have be included in one of the elements or as an attribute of an element in a the GPX output.

 

Even if it is included, it's unlikely that any waypoint managers such as easyGPS or GSAK parse that element yet and even if they, current GPS units wouldn't know that the information exists so wouldn't be able to grab the content to display it.

 

There is actually a workable solution that does not require the above. The user note can be appended to the long description field with a NOTES: string attached; it would then be visible in all systems that can display the long description.

 

Not a good long-term solution, but as a patch until third-party applications start to understand a new field, it would be usable today.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

First, the personal notes field would have be included in one of the elements or as an attribute of an element in a the GPX output.

 

Even if it is included, it's unlikely that any waypoint managers such as easyGPS or GSAK parse that element yet and even if they, current GPS units wouldn't know that the information exists so wouldn't be able to grab the content to display it.

 

There is actually a workable solution that does not require the above. The user note can be appended to the long description field with a NOTES: string attached; it would then be visible in all systems that can display the long description.

 

Not a good long-term solution, but as a patch until third-party applications start to understand a new field, it would be usable today.

 

That's pretty much what I suggested in response #2. It's pretty much academic unless a personal note is included as a field/element in the GPX available. Otherwise it would require screen scraping a page and using a login/password to "login" so that the page renders the personal note.

 

The personal note feature is a nice idea that would be even better if it were fully baked by adding something like <Groundspeak:personalNote /> to the Groundspeak namespace extension of the gpx schema.

 

As I said, I've been playing around with an open source content management system (Drupal) as a personal waypoint manager. I can currently ingest a pocket query, create "waypoint" nodes create filtered views of a collection of waypoints, and even show them on a map using the OpenLayers API. I could easily apply a mobile theme to the site so that I could access all of waypoints that I've downloaded as PQs via a web browser. I've only put a couple of days work into it (and most of that was getting a bleeding edge version of a Feeds module to parse the GPX file). It's mostly a proof of concept that I've used to test that Feeds module and I don't know how GS would feel about describing how it would work (it requires no additional code beyond what is available as open source software).

[+Chrysalides]

There is actually a workable solution that does not require the above. The user note can be appended to the long description field with a NOTES: string attached; it would then be visible in all systems that can display the long description.

Another alternative is as a log entry (even re-using type "Write note"). Date could be problematic - perhaps set it to the date of the most recent log in the GPX.

[+Avernar]

Another alternative is as a log entry (even re-using type "Write note"). Date could be problematic - perhaps set it to the date of the most recent log in the GPX.

Don't see the need to reuse the Write Note type. They added the Announce log type recently with no problems. Re-use would make it harder to identify the log as a note. You want to replace the old note, not add a new one.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Avernar

[AZcachemeister]

Has anyone checked to see if the 'Private Note' is somehow included in a .gpx download?

 

EDITED TO SAY:

If they are not, then they are pretty much useless.

Of course people were clamoring for this feature, so it HAD to be implemented ASAP.

Edited October 7, 2010 by AZcachemeister

[+dfx]

Has anyone checked to see if the 'Private Note' is somehow included in a .gpx download?

it's not, at least not in the GPX you get via the "GPX file" button.

[+fizzymagic]

Has anyone checked to see if the 'Private Note' is somehow included in a .gpx download?

 

EDITED TO SAY:

If they are not, then they are pretty much useless.

Of course people were clamoring for this feature, so it HAD to be implemented ASAP.

 

As one who has been pretty critical of Groundspeak in the past, I say chill.

 

Look, the field had to get put into the database and tested before it could be added to the GPX files; likewise, a new field in GPX files needs to be vetted to prevent third-party software from crashing. I am confident that it is going to happen. We've just seen the first step. So I, for one, am going to cut them a break for a couple of months. I think they are working on it.

[+fizzymagic]

Oh -- just in case anybody accuses me of being too nice, I should add that if Groundspeak had gone to GPX 1.1 when it came out 6 years ago this whole process wouldn't need to be done, as GPX 1.1 has a graceful way of dealing with new extensions.

[robertlipe]

GPX 1.1's extensions are more robust (extensions can extend extensions, for example) but they really don't come into play if you're just adding another tag/field, as would be the case here. The difference between 1.0 and 1.1 in practical terms is pretty small and the compatibility is not a straight-forward superset, so the change isn't a slam-dunk.

 

Groundspeak is in a tough spot when it comes to changing their GPX. While we can point to W3C specs that describe how things SHOULD work, they have a reasonably large ecosystem of developers that clearly don't understand how they should work. (Witness the apps that broke last winter when a new tag was added.) So there are now GPX readers baked into firmware of hardware that's discontinued. Even if those readers *shouldn't* break when things change, users would be annoyed if they did. So they really do have to be cautious.

 

If all the readers were written by pros and actively maintained, it'd be easier to justify party time in angle bracket city.

 

If they planned to do anything radical and wildly incompatible to PQs and published specs and sample files today, a year from now, there'd still be readers that's break in use.

 

They're in a tough spot.

 

Oh, and please don't put fields inside other fields in XML. That's just wrong.

[+Avernar]

They're in a tough spot.

Not really. They already implemented a solution which is the GPX Version selection in your preferences. All they have to do is add another version to the list.

[knowschad]

You can use both features together. Bookmark any puzzle caches you've solve then add the corrected coordinates as a personal note.

It would be an awesome feature if that were an automatic feature! Auto-bookmark any cache that I have a personal note on!

[+Prime Suspect]

First, the personal notes field would have be included in one of the elements or as an attribute of an element in a the GPX output.

 

Even if it is included, it's unlikely that any waypoint managers such as easyGPS or GSAK parse that element yet and even if they, current GPS units wouldn't know that the information exists so wouldn't be able to grab the content to display it.

 

There is actually a workable solution that does not require the above. The user note can be appended to the long description field with a NOTES: string attached; it would then be visible in all systems that can display the long description.

 

Not a good long-term solution, but as a patch until third-party applications start to understand a new field, it would be usable today.

I agree. That's how Additional Waypoints are handled.

[+fizzymagic]

Groundspeak is in a tough spot when it comes to changing their GPX.

I agree. That's why I say we should give them a break. It's clear that they see the problem and they are working on it. They deserve plaudits for that!

 

Oh, and please don't put fields inside other fields in XML. That's just wrong.

It's a kludge, but it would work as a temporary fix.

[+Avernar]

I agree. That's how Additional Waypoints are handled.

 

Ugh. I hate that. That should have been removed when the child waypoints gpx file was added. Now my export software has to do a text search to find and remove that section from the description.

 

It's a kludge, but it would work as a temporary fix.

Temporary things tend to become permanent when other software starts relying on it being there.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I agree. That's how Additional Waypoints are handled.

 

Ugh. I hate that. That should have been removed when the child waypoints gpx file was added. Now my export software has to do a text search to find and remove that section from the description.

 

It's a kludge, but it would work as a temporary fix.

Temporary things tend to become permanent when other software starts relying on it being there.

 

My reading of the kludge that it was just a matter of reading content from one element (ie. <Groundspeak:personalNote /> and appending to content from another (the long description). Software couldn't rely on it because it's just text. The end result would be any reader which already handled the longDescription element would just display the additional text...it wouldn't even know how it got there.

[+Avernar]

My reading of the kludge that it was just a matter of reading content from one element (ie. <Groundspeak:personalNote /> and appending to content from another (the long description). Software couldn't rely on it because it's just text. The end result would be any reader which already handled the longDescription element would just display the additional text...it wouldn't even know how it got there.

Not quite. The <groundspeak:personalNote /> field would not be there yet as to not break poorly written clients. What I'm saying is that once the personalNote field is added, the appending to longDescription should be removed.

 

It makes it difficult for software to not get two copies of the note. They'd have to text search the longDescription and remove it. Text searching is a slow operation.

[+Prime Suspect]

My reading of the kludge that it was just a matter of reading content from one element (ie. <Groundspeak:personalNote /> and appending to content from another (the long description). Software couldn't rely on it because it's just text. The end result would be any reader which already handled the longDescription element would just display the additional text...it wouldn't even know how it got there.

Not quite. The <groundspeak:personalNote /> field would not be there yet as to not break poorly written clients. What I'm saying is that once the personalNote field is added, the appending to longDescription should be removed.

 

It makes it difficult for software to not get two copies of the note. They'd have to text search the longDescription and remove it. Text searching is a slow operation.

No they wouldn't HAVE to remove it. You do it because you choose to, not because you have to.

[+Avernar]

No they wouldn't HAVE to remove it. You do it because you choose to, not because you have to.

Here we go again, someone else picking apart my wording. I don't really care about the dictionary definition of HAVE. There are enough reasons I want it gone that in effect I HAVE to do it.

 

I believe GSAK has an option to remove the additional waypoints from the long description. If I remember correctly it had some issues and may have been disabled. So I'm not the only one who wants only the long description text in the long description.

 

And that's the point of using XML to transfer data, you don't mix things. It's way easier and faster to combine information from the fields than it is to extract it.

 

When attributes came out they didn't stuff them into the long description. It would just clutter things up.

 

And some devices have limits. My Colorado cuts off the long description if it's too long. If the note goes on the bottom it would be missing. At the top and it may push important information off the bottom.

 

And some people suspect that the more data the GPS has to handle the more unstable it is.

[+fizzymagic]

Temporary things tend to become permanent when other software starts relying on it being there.

Good point. Maybe we should just wait.

[+dfx]

It would be an awesome feature if that were an automatic feature! Auto-bookmark any cache that I have a personal note on!

i was actually wondering about that, if there's a way to get a list of all caches that you added a note for. currently there doesn't seem to be, but it would be very useful to have that. a pseudo bookmark list sure would work for that.

 

as for the GPX files, it would be a good opportunity to roll out a new version of their GPX extensions, and/or maybe even move to GPX 1.1. maybe also add that "nano" cache size option while they're at it (older GPX versions would still get "micro" in there).

[AZcachemeister]

I'm chillin'.

Like the Friends List, it's a feature with a lot of promise.

But, will the promise be fulfilled?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I'm chillin'.

Like the Friends List, it's a feature with a lot of promise.

But, will the promise be fulfilled?

 

As far as I can tell, the friends list is one of the most underutilized features of the site.

 

So I solved a couple of puzzles a couple of days ago then added the actual coordinates to the page as a personal note. I was out yesterday after work geocaching (a rare opportunity for me) and found one traditional and one of the puzzle caches. I had time for one more before picking up my son but hadn't written down the solution to one of the puzzles I solved, but had added the coordinates as a personal note. So, I fired up the geocaching app on my iPhone and looked for the personal note but it was no where to be found. For those that haven't seen the iPhone geocaching app, one of fields shown on the display for each waypoint is a "Notepad" that brings up a little text box for entering a note. Wouldn't it be nice if that was populated from the personal note field from the cache list (or if entering something in the notepad field would go into the personal note? Even if the personal note field doesn't get into gpx output right away access to the field from a mobile app would be really useful.

[+Vertigo]

First, the personal notes field would have be included in one of the elements or as an attribute of an element in a the GPX output.

 

Even if it is included, it's unlikely that any waypoint managers such as easyGPS or GSAK parse that element yet and even if they, current GPS units wouldn't know that the information exists so wouldn't be able to grab the content to display it.

 

There is actually a workable solution that does not require the above. The user note can be appended to the long description field with a NOTES: string attached; it would then be visible in all systems that can display the long description.

 

Not a good long-term solution, but as a patch until third-party applications start to understand a new field, it would be usable today.

 

This seems like the best immediate solution, this should be done now!

[+webscouter.]

Nate has said that in future releases the personal note will be in both GPX files and available from phone apps.

[+errvee]

Hello,

 

is it possible to integrate the new personal notes into my GPX-files, so I can read these (my) notes on my GPSr ?

 

Thomas

 

One solution is add new type of log - Personal note.

 

Only logger, as owner can see it (this is also in his GPX file and in GPS)

and edit it as needed.

 

And this personal note is always first log for him, above all others

 

best, RV

[+Prime Suspect]

And some devices have limits. My Colorado cuts off the long description if it's too long. If the note goes on the bottom it would be missing. At the top and it may push important information off the bottom.

Are you aware of just how few characters you're actually allowed to enter into a note? I don't see the problem you describe as really being a concern.