Cache Owners and Challenges?

[+MSalisbury]

I've run across someting a few times that confuses me a little, and I would like to ask what everyone else's feelings on a matter are.

 

There are any number of Caching Challenges out there, right? Most CO's don't seem to mind if their cache is made part of a challenge (I know I don't mind) but I've seen a number of cache owners that take a rather militant attitude about not having their cache used for any sort of challenge and threaten to delete logs of anyone stating that the cache would be used as part of a challenge.

 

One I saw was part of the Georgia County Challenge, where the cache owner made a point of stating in the cache description that any logs using his cache as part of the challenge would be deleted. (I won't mention the name or GC of the cache) The most recent is for the Original Stash Tribute plaque (GCGV0P) - apparently there is a challenge out there to claim a number of caches around Estacada. The Cache owner has posted that he didn't want the logs "cluttered" with all the logs of people working on the challenge and would delete them. Apparently he wasn't aware of the challenge, and didn't spend 10 seconds on Google like I did to find out.

 

I thought the idea of putting out a cache was that you wanted people to come find your cache, right? Does it really matter WHY people were coming out and searching for your cache? As long as they come out and search? Esepcially for one like the Original Stash Tribute. I mean, why would anyone get upset that people were actually searching for their cache? I don't get it. (BTW I think that the owner of the Stash tribute plaque is doing a great service to the caching community, and have no bad thoughts about him - I'm just curious about the attitude.)

 

Personally, I happened to be working on the Georgia County Challenge when I was in the area of the first cache I mentioned, and when I saw his anti-challenge notice on his cache page, I simply chose to put it (and all the rest of his caches) on my "Ignore" list and searched for another one in the same area. I noticed his caches were seldom visited or searched for. Seemed rather sad to me.

 

What are peoples thoughts? What am I missing here?

Edited June 28, 2010 by MSalisbury

[+42at42]

I don't understand it either.

 

Why not just log these caches without mentioning the challenge?

 

Sign the log sheet. Log a TFTC. Continue the challenge.

[+StarBrand]

I don't understand it either.

 

Why not just log these caches without mentioning the challenge?

 

Sign the log sheet. Log a TFTC. Continue the challenge.

Some challenge's require that your log mention that you found it as part of the challenge.

 

I have no idea whay some cache owners would be irritated by that.

[+narcissa]

I've run across someting a few times that confuses me a little, and I would like to ask what everyone else's feelings on a matter are.

 

There are any number of Caching Challenges out there, right? Most CO's don't seem to mind if their cache is made part of a challenge (I know I don't mind) but I've seen a number of cache owners that take a rather militant attitude about not having their cache used for any sort of challenge and threaten to delete logs of anyone stating that the cache would be used as part of a challenge.

 

One I saw was part of the Georgia County Challenge, where the cache owner made a point of stating in the cache description that any logs using his cache as part of the challenge would be deleted. (I won't mention the name or GC of the cache) The most recent is for the Original Stash Tribute plaque (GCGV0P) - apparently there is a challenge out there to claim a number of caches around Estacada. The Cache owner has posted that he didn't want the logs "cluttered" with all the logs of people working on the challenge and would delete them. Apparently he wasn't aware of the challenge, and didn't spend 10 seconds on Google like I did to find out.

 

I thought the idea of putting out a cache was that you wanted people to come find your cache, right? Does it really matter WHY people were coming out and searching for your cache? As long as they come out and search? Esepcially for one like the Original Stash Tribute. I mean, why would anyone get upset that people were actually searching for their cache? I don't get it. (BTW I think that the owner of the Stash tribute plaque is doing a great service to the caching community, and have no bad thoughts about him - I'm just curious about the attitude.)

 

Personally, I happened to be working on the Georgia County Challenge when I was in the area of the first cache I mentioned, and when I saw his anti-challenge notice on his cache page, I simply chose to put it (and all the rest of his caches) on my "Ignore" list and searched for another one in the same area. I noticed his caches were seldom visited or searched for. Seemed rather sad to me.

 

What are peoples thoughts? What am I missing here?

 

I have no idea why cache owners are bothered by this, but they can't delete legitimate finds over something like that. If you see a cache page that threatens log deletion of legitimate finds, report it to a reviewer.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

I don't understand either side of this one. Why does the CO care if a log mentions a challenge cache and why does the owner of the challenge feel it is necessary that people log that they found the cache as part of the challenge?

[+TheGrey]

I don't understand either side of this one. Why does the CO care if a log mentions a challenge cache and why does the owner of the challenge feel it is necessary that people log that they found the cache as part of the challenge?

 

Maybe the CO has a grudge against the challenge owner for some reason?

[+niraD]

I have no idea why cache owners are bothered by this

Well, it could be that the CO interprets "found for XYZ challenge cache" as an insult, implying that the cache and the CO are worthless except for helping the seeker meet the requirements of the challenge cache. It's similar to the mentality that interprets short logs as being insulting.

 

Or it could be that the CO doesn't like challenge caches, and doesn't want his caches associated with them in any way. I don't care for the way challenge caches turn difficulty/terrain stars into an award to be earned by cache seekers. (They should be a way for cache owners to communicate with cache seekers.) But I don't worry about references to challenge caches in the logs.

[+narcissa]

I don't care for the way challenge caches turn difficulty/terrain stars into an award to be earned by cache seekers. (They should be a way for cache owners to communicate with cache seekers.)

 

This is a big reason I wouldn't mind seeing challenge caches eliminated from the game. I have seen very few challenge caches that actually involved a challenge I would consider fun or worthwhile. Most of them just seem to be an elaborate way to get around the ALR guidelines.

[+Panther&Pine]

I'd be confused if some one did this on a cache I owned.

But as long as it didn't cause any issues with my hide I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

Edited June 28, 2010 by MooseJawSpruce

[+izce.nine]

If someone asked me, I'd have no problem being included in a challenge. I might be a little irritated by people just including my cache in a challenge without asking. It *IS* my hide. Though I might not go as far as to delete logs, but I might re-hide mine, and up the difficulty. That is just me.

[+Ike 13]

If someone asked me, I'd have no problem being included in a challenge. I might be a little irritated by people just including my cache in a challenge without asking. It *IS* my hide. Though I might not go as far as to delete logs, but I might re-hide mine, and up the difficulty. That is just me.

 

They're referring to a hide being used to complete something like the ABC challenge cache. While I may use your "Great cache" for G someone else may find "GRC #178 for their G cache.

 

I have not seen anyone say this, and I don't understand why they would. When I use a cache for a challenge it's usually because that cache stands out among all the others that equally qualify. So to me it's an added badge of honor to that cache.

[jholly]

I don't care for the way challenge caches turn difficulty/terrain stars into an award to be earned by cache seekers. (They should be a way for cache owners to communicate with cache seekers.)

 

This is a big reason I wouldn't mind seeing challenge caches eliminated from the game. I have seen very few challenge caches that actually involved a challenge I would consider fun or worthwhile. Most of them just seem to be an elaborate way to get around the ALR guidelines.

 

Just because you don't like them does not mean everyone feels the same way. Perhaps you would not mind but others might. So does the existence of a challenged cache affect how you cache?

[+narcissa]

 

Just because you don't like them does not mean everyone feels the same way. Perhaps you would not mind but others might. So does the existence of a challenged cache affect how you cache?

 

There's a reason I said "I wouldn't mind seeing them..." as opposed to "CHALLENGE CACHES ARE ALRS AND MUST BE ELIMINATED." Settle down, dude.

[+bflentje]

I've run across someting a few times that confuses me a little, and I would like to ask what everyone else's feelings on a matter are.

 

There are any number of Caching Challenges out there, right? Most CO's don't seem to mind if their cache is made part of a challenge (I know I don't mind) but I've seen a number of cache owners that take a rather militant attitude about not having their cache used for any sort of challenge and threaten to delete logs of anyone stating that the cache would be used as part of a challenge.

 

One I saw was part of the Georgia County Challenge, where the cache owner made a point of stating in the cache description that any logs using his cache as part of the challenge would be deleted. (I won't mention the name or GC of the cache) The most recent is for the Original Stash Tribute plaque (GCGV0P) - apparently there is a challenge out there to claim a number of caches around Estacada. The Cache owner has posted that he didn't want the logs "cluttered" with all the logs of people working on the challenge and would delete them. Apparently he wasn't aware of the challenge, and didn't spend 10 seconds on Google like I did to find out.

 

I thought the idea of putting out a cache was that you wanted people to come find your cache, right? Does it really matter WHY people were coming out and searching for your cache? As long as they come out and search? Esepcially for one like the Original Stash Tribute. I mean, why would anyone get upset that people were actually searching for their cache? I don't get it. (BTW I think that the owner of the Stash tribute plaque is doing a great service to the caching community, and have no bad thoughts about him - I'm just curious about the attitude.)

 

Personally, I happened to be working on the Georgia County Challenge when I was in the area of the first cache I mentioned, and when I saw his anti-challenge notice on his cache page, I simply chose to put it (and all the rest of his caches) on my "Ignore" list and searched for another one in the same area. I noticed his caches were seldom visited or searched for. Seemed rather sad to me.

 

What are peoples thoughts? What am I missing here?

 

I have no idea why cache owners are bothered by this, but they can't delete legitimate finds over something like that. If you see a cache page that threatens log deletion of legitimate finds, report it to a reviewer.

 

Ditto. I would not tolerate the threat let alone the actual deletion.

[+bflentje]

I don't care for the way challenge caches turn difficulty/terrain stars into an award to be earned by cache seekers. (They should be a way for cache owners to communicate with cache seekers.)

 

This is a big reason I wouldn't mind seeing challenge caches eliminated from the game. I have seen very few challenge caches that actually involved a challenge I would consider fun or worthwhile. Most of them just seem to be an elaborate way to get around the ALR guidelines.

 

A beg to differ on this one.. no way. Challenges need to stay in place as it keeps geocaching exciting for some of us. Had it not been for the challenges, I would have been bored and left the game long ago.

[jholly]

 

Just because you don't like them does not mean everyone feels the same way. Perhaps you would not mind but others might. So does the existence of a challenged cache affect how you cache?

 

There's a reason I said "I wouldn't mind seeing them..." as opposed to "CHALLENGE CACHES ARE ALRS AND MUST BE ELIMINATED." Settle down, dude.

 

kerplunk

[+narcissa]

A beg to differ on this one.. no way. Challenges need to stay in place as it keeps geocaching exciting for some of us. Had it not been for the challenges, I would have been bored and left the game long ago.

 

I spent a good part of last year doing a geocaching challenge. It's a list of caches and a leaderboard that a local cacher runs. It's been going for years. I personally think it's a better set-up than many of the challenge caches out there. But again, I'm not actively lobbying Groundspeak to get rid of them or anything, I just personally think they're kind of lame and wouldn't be upset in the least if they were eliminated.

[+MSalisbury]

If someone asked me, I'd have no problem being included in a challenge. I might be a little irritated by people just including my cache in a challenge without asking. It *IS* my hide. Though I might not go as far as to delete logs, but I might re-hide mine, and up the difficulty. That is just me.

 

They're referring to a hide being used to complete something like the ABC challenge cache. While I may use your "Great cache" for G someone else may find "GRC #178 for their G cache.

 

I have not seen anyone say this, and I don't understand why they would. When I use a cache for a challenge it's usually because that cache stands out among all the others that equally qualify. So to me it's an added badge of honor to that cache.

 

This is exactly the sort of challenge cache I'm referring to - things such as "Find a cache starting with each letter of the Alphabet", or "Find a cache in every county in the state", or "Find a cache hidden by users with names starting with each letter of the alphabet", or "Find a cache on each page of the Delorme Map book for State X", or the Well-Rounded Cacher Challenge (Find one cache of every difficulty/ size/ terrain combination). Completion of the Challange may or may not result in a "Bonus" cache hide. I'm not necessarily meaning "Find all caches hidden by some some unsuspecting Cacher X".

 

Izec.Nine: I have to ask, and I'm not meaning this in any sort of confrontational way, but why would it irritate you to include your cache "Without asking"? Were you thinking I meant a "Find all of Izec.nine's cache's" challenge? I meant more "Find a cache meeting this criteria", and you happen to have a cache that meets that Criteria.

 

I see it (my cache being used in a challenge) as a way to increase the number of people searching for my cache, which is after all the reason I hid it in the first place. I don't think people hide a cache expecting to get pre-approval of those people who will be allowed to search for their cache, do they? Heck, if that's the case, why publish it on Groundspeak at all? After all, I can hide a box in the woods and then just email the coords to those special people that I approve of, don't need to use Groundspeak at all.

 

Again, I'm just curious about the attitide of cache owners who are so against challenges. I can understand editing logs for vulgar logs, or for logs that give away too much information about the hide. But for being found by someone who I don't approve of? Huh???

 

Thanks to all who have responded so far.

[+thedeadpirate]

I see both sides.

 

I have a cache which would probably not get half as many finds if not for the Delorme state challenge. It happens to be the only cache in that quadrant.

 

I didn't place it for the challenge, but I have kept it going for that reason.

 

However, I do tire of the "xx of yy caches for the Delorme challenge" type of logs that are generally posted.

 

But those generally only annoy me on my ornery days. The rest of the time I'm glad someone is visiting that site since it has historical value.

[+palmetto]

Some challenge's require that your log mention that you found it as part of the challenge.

 

I've not seen this. This is not an acceptable requirement for a challenge cache under the current guideline. It would not be a grandfathered item, either.

 

There was a rather long thread on this subject in the last year or so. A number of cache owner's chimed in who were annoyed by logs like, "found this for the XYZ challenge", thereby relegating their cache to simply a stepping stone to some more worthy target. It's rude and annoying. However, I suspect that those same cachers, if not in pursuit of the XYZ Challenge would likely be logging," TNLNSL 6th of 7 for the day, #789".

[+Sioneva]

I adopted the Nebraska 93 County Challenge from the previous owner about a year ago, and I think it's my favorite cache of all the ones I own!

 

Granted, I don't know what logs are left on other caches by cachers seeking to get all the counties, but judging from the logs left on mine, it takes people way off the beaten path to find caches they would never have looked for without the challenge, and see things they would never have seen, without the challenge. Isn't one of the main points of caching to have people find the caches and see the unusual sights that the cache is supposed to draw you to? Does it really matter so much what brought them there?

[+cachestacker]

I adopted the Nebraska 93 County Challenge from the previous owner about a year ago, and I think it's my favorite cache of all the ones I own!

 

Granted, I don't know what logs are left on other caches by cachers seeking to get all the counties, but judging from the logs left on mine, it takes people way off the beaten path to find caches they would never have looked for without the challenge, and see things they would never have seen, without the challenge. Isn't one of the main points of caching to have people find the caches and see the unusual sights that the cache is supposed to draw you to? Does it really matter so much what brought them there?

 

Agree. To me, it seems that these people would be upset mentioning why you were in the area in the first place. Really, what's the difference between the two? I go highpointing, and did a fly into Denver, drive to WY, East to NE for the NE highpoint, S to KS to the KS highpoint, back to Denver via Garden of the Gods and Pike's Peak.

 

I was able to get some really cool caches along the way, some which had not been found in ages. And they were in really beautiful places, too. Great photo ops. Think the CO got mad I mentioned I was on a whirlwind highpoint run and made the detour for his cache?

 

Some of the challenges (clearly, not all) really take you off the beaten path to some places you would never otherwise go. Seems for whatever reason (challenge, HP run, other) it's just part of your story. Sometimes they're cache driven. Sometimes caching is a secondary (or less) factor in what you're doing.

 

Wonder whether the COs would rather have "was here to get this one for the XXXX challenge" or "TFTC"....

[+DanOCan]

There is one situation I know of regarding a challenge cache around here that would annoy me.

 

The challenge is pretty standard -- find at least one cache where the hider's name starts with A-Z and 0-9. Apparently there is only one cache hider in our entire province with a name which starts with a 7, and that hider only placed one cache.

 

The challenge owner said that if you found that cache before "such and such" date it wouldn't count as part of the challenge -- unless you went back to it, signed the log again and then logged it online as a Note.

 

If I owned that cache, I might be a little annoyed with all these Notes appearing on my cache page for no other reason than the existence of a challenge. Otherwise, as a cache owner I don't care -- heck, I only found out about the challenge because someone had put bookmarked one of my cache pages relating to the challenge.

[+bflentje]

There is one situation I know of regarding a challenge cache around here that would annoy me.

 

The challenge is pretty standard -- find at least one cache where the hider's name starts with A-Z and 0-9. Apparently there is only one cache hider in our entire province with a name which starts with a 7, and that hider only placed one cache.

 

The challenge owner said that if you found that cache before "such and such" date it wouldn't count as part of the challenge -- unless you went back to it, signed the log again and then logged it online as a Note.

 

If I owned that cache, I might be a little annoyed with all these Notes appearing on my cache page for no other reason than the existence of a challenge. Otherwise, as a cache owner I don't care -- heck, I only found out about the challenge because someone had put bookmarked one of my cache pages relating to the challenge.

 

I completed KB's alphanumeric cacher challenge and there wasn't a geocacher starting with a 0 within 400 miles. You know what, part of the challenge. I drove from Minneapolis to Madison, grabbed the cache, and ended up being FTF on the challenge. A challenge is exactly that, a challenge. How could you get annoyed?

[+GeoGeeBee]

I recently placed a difficult puzzle cache. I know that being a puzzle cuts down the number of finders, and being a really difficult puzzle cuts it down even further. So in hopes of encouraging more finds, I made sure that the final is handicapped accessible. For cachers doing a Fizzy Challenge, there aren't a whole lot of 4.5 difficulty/1.0 Terrain caches to choose from. So I hope that people working on challenges will use my puzzle!

[+succotash]

Several of the challenge caches we're familiar with do request that you identify that you were seeking the challenge in your log. Some even state that you have to go back and modify your logs to say so.

 

We agree with those who are happy to have someone find our cache for whatever reason. It's nice if the log adds something besides the challenge cache part, but we feel that way about any log (e.g., it's nice to have something positive said about that particular cache).