Attacked at a cache

[+simpjkee]

I can't help but to at part of the enable listing log on the cache:

 

Talked to the property owner. He is more than willing to allow us to geocache here. His renter has a physical/mental condition. Hopefully this will never happen again!!!

 

So to future cachers, while hunting the cache, be on the lookout for a violent alcoholic muggle with a 'physical/mental condition' living near GZ. Other than that the Cache is good to go! Cache on!

 

Oh boy! This cache sounds like a blast!

[+Sioneva]

I can't help but to at part of the enable listing log on the cache:

 

Talked to the property owner. He is more than willing to allow us to geocache here. His renter has a physical/mental condition. Hopefully this will never happen again!!!

 

So to future cachers, while hunting the cache, be on the lookout for a violent alcoholic muggle with a 'physical/mental condition' living near GZ. Other than that the Cache is good to go! Cache on!

 

Oh boy! This cache sounds like a blast!

 

I think we need to petition for a new attribute...

[4wheelin_fool]

I can't help but to at part of the enable listing log on the cache:

 

Talked to the property owner. He is more than willing to allow us to geocache here. His renter has a physical/mental condition. Hopefully this will never happen again!!!

 

So to future cachers, while hunting the cache, be on the lookout for a violent alcoholic muggle with a 'physical/mental condition' living near GZ. Other than that the Cache is good to go! Cache on!

 

Oh boy! This cache sounds like a blast!

 

They just need to raise the difficulty and terrain a bit.

 

Equipment needed!

Be sure to bring either a baseball bat, chainsaw, pepper spray, throwing knives, or claw hammer!

Edited April 15, 2010 by 4wheelin_fool

[+Opalblade]

Haha you guys are cracking me up

 

Potential new attribute pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Jackalgirl]

Cache Attribute: Crazy Neighbor

 

[+mountainman38]

I don't condone the drunken renters actions in this thread in any way. However, as a renter, if our landlord decided to give permission for the general public to come onto the property for some unknown activity (presumably the drunken brawler is not a cacher, so to him people are coming on his rented property for an unknown reason), I would most definitely have a problem.

 

When a land owner rents/leases their land/property to someone, they are under very specific legal requirements in how they deal with the renter/lessee. Without the specific consent of the renter, the landlord is acting in a very dubious manner, at the very least, and possibly illegally, to grant permission. The landlord himself can't even come on the property without prior notice, except in the case of an emergency.

 

If someone showed up on my rented property and started poking around in the trees and bushes, you can bet it would not go over well.

 

Again, not defending drunken angry man -- just pointing out the landowners irresponsible actions.

 

Edited to add: What I've said is true for Washington State, from the laws I read before signing our current lease agreement.

Edited April 15, 2010 by mountainman38

[+Geo-raldo]

I love the new attributes! They made me chuckle hard.

 

As for the last post about the renter and the property. I will set the stage a little.

 

On the corner is a house which the renter rents. Next to the house is a business. Honey Land Farms. The cache is placed on the property of the business not actually on the property the renter rents.

 

The renter just feels that he can and should control what happens on the business property also because he rents the house from the business.

 

We were parked in the business parking lot and searching on the business property. We were in no way shape or form on the rental property.

 

I really wish the cache would be removed but I have done all I can. I have contacted the cache owner and I have contacted the reviewer in our area.

 

Now if someone else gets attacked at this cache it's not my fault.

[Clan Riffster]

When a land owner rents/leases their land/property to someone, they are under very specific legal requirements in how they deal with the renter/lessee.

Agreed. In most states, landlord/tenant laws prohibit the property owner from offering open invitations to enter upon the property without the tenant's consent. They forfeited that right when they chose to accept funds from another, for the use of the property. Were I a reviewer, I would definitely view this as a permission guidelines violation.

 

(this does not condone, in any way, the actions of the drunken fidiot)

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

This is the problem with forums... the last few posts show how hard it is to keep it limited to facts!

 

Apparently violation of the renter's property rights isn't an issue.

 

I'm not sure how we got to debating tenants rights, access and cache permission when the cache isn't even on the renter's land.

[+thedeadpirate]

On the corner is a house which the renter rents. Next to the house is a business. Honey Land Farms. The cache is placed on the property of the business not actually on the property the renter rents.

 

The renter just feels that he can and should control what happens on the business property also because he rents the house from the business.

 

If this is the case, then the best you can do is to follow up with prosecution of the renter for his behavior. As far as I can tell, he is the only person wrong in this situation.

 

It is unfortunate that this occurred, especially with the kids in the car.

[+mountainman38]

I love the new attributes! They made me chuckle hard.

 

As for the last post about the renter and the property. I will set the stage a little.

 

On the corner is a house which the renter rents. Next to the house is a business. Honey Land Farms. The cache is placed on the property of the business not actually on the property the renter rents.

 

The renter just feels that he can and should control what happens on the business property also because he rents the house from the business.

 

We were parked in the business parking lot and searching on the business property. We were in no way shape or form on the rental property.

 

I really wish the cache would be removed but I have done all I can. I have contacted the cache owner and I have contacted the reviewer in our area.

 

Now if someone else gets attacked at this cache it's not my fault.

 

Well, that's quite a different situation then. It sounds like you were completely in the right, as was the property owner. I'll go back to what I said earlier -- the drunk idiot who feels it's his right to assault people needs to get hosed down with pepper spray, then carted off to jail.

 

If the property owner is going to give permission for their property to be used (as is their right, unless there's a conflict with the Honey Land Farms business), they need to get their rabid dog renter under control.

[Clan Riffster]

I'm not sure how we got to debating tenants rights, access and cache permission when the cache isn't even on the renter's land.

Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! Pick me, Mr Cotter!

 

I'd guess the confusion comes from this line, in the opening post:

"According to one of the police officers this isn't the first time they have been called to the house. The owner had given permission to some hunters to be on the land and the renter didn't agree so he confronted the hunters and the police had to get involved."

As you can see, there is nothing in that line, (or anywhere else), that indicated that the issue involved two seperate properties, owned by the same person. Until Geo-Raldo clarified the issue, I believed that this all occured on a single piece of property. Hence, the debate regarding tenant rights.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I go back to my post #127

 

The Reviewer is in a bit of a quandary, because it is a 'legal' hide and Groundspeak does not take danger real or perceived into consideration. Therefore the Reviewer has no basis upon which to archive the cache.

 

The cache owner, on the other hand, does have (I believe) a responsibility to avoid drawing cachers into situations like this where known unpleasantness can occur.

 

Yes, the neighbor is in the wrong, but there's nothing we can do about that. In such a case there's nothing but the CO's stubbornness in insisting that he's 'in the right' keeping this one active and continuing to expose cachers to the neighbor's antics.

 

The CO should archive this one.

[Clan Riffster]

The CO should archive this one.

I agree wholeheartedly. I have no qualms regarding caches with known dangers. I can decide for myself what I am capable of, and act accordingly. In this case, however, the danger is more covert. Someone not paying strict attention to the cache page would have no way of knowing they were walking into a violent, drunken confrontation.

 

It needs to go away.

[+SandyCreekPirates]

Get a gun ....

 

NOT good advice.

 

Horrible advice since the adults could get separated again, get two guns.

 

Yup!

[+SandyCreekPirates]

Yes. Why don'twe all just pull out a gun whenever we feel threatened?

 

In case you people don't already know this, you aren't allowed to shoot someone just because they hit you with their fist. In fact, I have a relative who is in jail for pointing a gun at someone who was physically accosting his wife.

 

Around here, with a concealed weapons permit you can inform the individual that you have a gun on you and that you would like the situation to cease, but that you are willing to reveal the weapon if the problem does not stop. Then you have the right to remove your weapon and remind the individual that you will fire if they do not back off. After that, it's any man's game.

 

Fair enough in my opinion. I'm not trigger happy, nor do I ever wish to shoot anyone, but I DO like to have the upper hand if a bad situation arises. Call me crazy...

 

And, for those who say (not necessarily in this forum) that you don't need to carry a gun if you stay out of questionable places... what is questionable? A bad situation can arise anywhere. In recent years we had a string of churches around here fall victim to robbery, theft and vandalism.

 

Now, who among us would consider a place that is generally seen as a safe haven to be a questionable area? I'm not a church-goer, but I would never even think about conducting any wrong-doing in a place that, at least, teaches a pretty solid set of morals.

 

Food for thought!

Edited April 16, 2010 by SandyCreekPirates

[+BulldogBlitz]

Yes. Why don'twe all just pull out a gun whenever we feel threatened?

 

In case you people don't already know this, you aren't allowed to shoot someone just because they hit you with their fist. In fact, I have a relative who is in jail for pointing a gun at someone who was physically accosting his wife.

 

Around here, with a concealed weapons permit you can inform the individual that you have a gun on you and that you would like the situation to cease, but that you are willing to reveal the weapon if the problem does not stop. Then you have the right to remove your weapon and remind the individual that you will fire if they do not back off. After that, it's any man's game.

 

Fair enough in my opinion. I'm not trigger happy, nor do I ever wish to shoot anyone, but I DO like to have the upper hand if a bad situation arises. Call me crazy...

 

And, for those who say (not necessarily in this forum) that you don't need to carry a gun if you stay out of questionable places... what is questionable? A bad situation can arise anywhere. In recent years we had a string of churches around here fall victim to robbery, theft and vandalism.

 

Now, who among us would consider a place that is generally seen as a safe haven to be a questionable area? I'm not a church-goer, but I would never even think about conducting any wrong-doing in a place that, at least, teaches a pretty solid set of morals.

 

Food for thought!

 

this would help in a great deal of FTF confrontations.... "please step out of GZ, i have a concealed weapon and am willing to use it to defend my rights to a FTF"

[+Castle Mischief]

So this is a gun discussion thread now? Did that happen when it became property of the forum community?

[+SandyCreekPirates]

Yes. Why don'twe all just pull out a gun whenever we feel threatened?

 

In case you people don't already know this, you aren't allowed to shoot someone just because they hit you with their fist. In fact, I have a relative who is in jail for pointing a gun at someone who was physically accosting his wife.

 

Around here, with a concealed weapons permit you can inform the individual that you have a gun on you and that you would like the situation to cease, but that you are willing to reveal the weapon if the problem does not stop. Then you have the right to remove your weapon and remind the individual that you will fire if they do not back off. After that, it's any man's game.

 

Fair enough in my opinion. I'm not trigger happy, nor do I ever wish to shoot anyone, but I DO like to have the upper hand if a bad situation arises. Call me crazy...

 

And, for those who say (not necessarily in this forum) that you don't need to carry a gun if you stay out of questionable places... what is questionable? A bad situation can arise anywhere. In recent years we had a string of churches around here fall victim to robbery, theft and vandalism.

 

Now, who among us would consider a place that is generally seen as a safe haven to be a questionable area? I'm not a church-goer, but I would never even think about conducting any wrong-doing in a place that, at least, teaches a pretty solid set of morals.

 

Food for thought!

 

this would help in a great deal of FTF confrontations.... "please step out of GZ, i have a concealed weapon and am willing to use it to defend my rights to a FTF"

[+thedeadpirate]

So this is a gun discussion thread now? Did that happen when it became property of the forum community?

 

 

BTW, there is a real gun discussion stemming from this thread over in OT.

[+BlueDeuce]

IBL

[Clan Riffster]

No, no, no! No guns! This is a claw hammer discussion.

[+Castle Mischief]

IBL

 

ibuprofen lisinate

Image based lighting

InBound Links

Inbred backcross lines

Inquiry-based learning

Intercounty Baseball League

International Basketball League

International Brotherhood of Longshoremen

Ion Beam Lithography

Italian Baseball League

Israel Baseball League

Instance-based Learning Algorithms

In before lock

Involved But Looking

[+Castle Mischief]

So this is a gun discussion thread now? Did that happen when it became property of the forum community?

 

 

BTW, there is a real gun discussion stemming from this thread over in OT.

 

More like steaming. As in "pile of".

[+thedeadpirate]

So this is a gun discussion thread now? Did that happen when it became property of the forum community?

 

 

BTW, there is a real gun discussion stemming from this thread over in OT.

 

More like steaming. As in "pile of".

 

Hey, it's got all the button pushings you'd expect. That makes it real in my book.

[+Sioneva]

So this is a gun discussion thread now? Did that happen when it became property of the forum community?

 

 

BTW, there is a real gun discussion stemming from this thread over in OT.

 

More like steaming. As in "pile of".

 

Hey, it's got all the button pushings you'd expect. That makes it real in my book.

 

Plue, there's pi.

[+thedeadpirate]

So this is a gun discussion thread now? Did that happen when it became property of the forum community?

 

 

BTW, there is a real gun discussion stemming from this thread over in OT.

 

More like steaming. As in "pile of".

 

Hey, it's got all the button pushings you'd expect. That makes it real in my book.

 

Plue, there's pi.

 

Is plue like pi for blue bows?

[+Sioneva]

 

Plue, there's pi.

 

Is plue like pi for blue bows?

 

Plooie!

[+Geo-raldo]

We have had sucess. I had put a watch on this cache and I receive a message from the cache owner that they are disabling the cache until the owner and his bees return from Florida.

 

There were no other posts about incidents so I am not sure why the change of heart, but whatever the reason I am very happy that other families will not be going to retrieve the cache and getting attacked by the renter.

 

I also have found the courage to get back in the saddle again. However, every time I see someone approaching I get this sick feeling in my stomach. I am sure with time this will pass.

[+Trucker Lee]

It is most unfortunate that you had that sort of experience. However, the problem isn't with caching or the cache owner. If the owner of the property gave permission for the cache, and the cache isn't on that portion of the property that is being rented, then it is the one who accosted you that is in the wrong. The cache owner is right in disabling until checking with the property owner to determine the proper course of action.

 

Still, you need to be pressing the legal complaint and to keep on caching. How far do you wish to be pushed? Will you let others continue to determine your legal leisure pursuits, and it is really right to teach your son not to stand up for himself?

[+Braid Beard's gang]

First, I would like to say congrats to geo-raldo. I saw your name on a few logs today. I am glad you are caching again.

 

Second, I met the cache owner yesterday at an event. I told him about this thread. After a short discussion, he seems to have researched the issue thoroughly. I guess I don't have any problems with that cache being moved and active.

[+NC GHOST TEAM]

My old grandpa once said to me, "Son, there comes a time in every man's

life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually

it's when he becomes too old to take an butt whoopin'.

 

I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being

killed.

 

I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this

world can be a scary place.

 

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are

real threats in the world.

 

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived

long enough to see the evil in the world.

 

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because

I understand the limitations of government.

 

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have

to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

 

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun

because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk

somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

 

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I

die and go to Heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

 

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men

know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

 

I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because,

unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

 

I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life

and the people who make it meaningful to me.

 

"Police Protection" is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect

themselves. Police do not protect you from crime; they usually just

investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean

up the mess.

 

Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to

take an butt whoopin'."

 

..author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

 

Remember the average response time to a 911 call is over 4 minutes in town and 30 or more minutes in the woods .

 

The average response time of a 357 magnum is 1400 FPS.

[Keystone]

Closing improvidently bumped effort to create a gun debate in a geocaching discussion forum. We have an off topic forum where gun rights can be debated at will, subject to the forum guidelines.