Delorme PN-30/40 vs Garmin etrex Vista Hcx

[Guest]

I am looking for a new (to me, I will buy used) GPS for both geocaching and hunting. I am familiar with the etrex line, but have done a bit of research on the Delorme PN units, and they look like they may be better units. I was wondering is a few people who own one or the other, or even both could weigh in and state a bit about the unit they use, how happy they are with it, etc.

 

Thanks a ton for the help!

 

Edit: I am also wondering how accurate these units are under dense cover, clouds, etc. I am used to my Legend where on a sunny day in the wide open I can only get an accuracy of about 20 feet

Edited November 19, 2009 by Guest

[+Maingray]

Apples and oranges, almost. The Delorme PN20-40 can do the same functions as the etrexes, with the same accurcacy as say, the newer etrex "H" models, plus the delorme has paperless geocaching (full cache descriptions, hints, logging of caches etc) built in, plus better mapping options. Of the PNs, I'd recommend the 40 (over the PN20 and over the Etrexes) as it has a speed matching better it's functions. I have lost track of the etrex pricing nowadays.

 

Truly, a better comparison feature wise are the Delormes v Garmin Dakota/ Oregon/ Colorado which have similar mapping and paperless functions. They are getting closer to each other in price now, with the "entry level" (IMO) Oregon 300 on sale at REI for $250.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Maingray

[Ken in Regina]

If you live and operate in the US then you can consider both options.

 

If you do not live and/or operate in the US forget the DeLorme unless you are really into making your own maps.

 

...ken...

[+Rockin Roddy]

Paperless caching is SWEET!! Aerial imagery is also SWEET!! Having maps which route you and show topo in the box is also SWEET!! Having a map software that is a very powerful tool included in the box, (you guessed it) SWEET!

 

They are both good units, they both get great reception and can route you (I think the Garmin can at least)...but the PN-30/40 do much more! The choice comes down to what bells and whistles you want!

 

I can tell you I am really impressed with the PN-40...I currently own 2!! The first one, left on the hood of my Jeep, was beaten up from hitting the road at 55+ mph, run over once, likely twice before finding it's way to the ditch where it sat for a few months before a road commission guy found it and returned it to me...it works AWESOMELY even though it is badly beaten...SWEET! I did get another as a replacement which is my 2nd!!

 

The PNs are obviously solid, acquire lock and keeps it in most conditions and is very accurate IMHO! The paperless is true paperless, all the info is on your GPS just like the cache page...except no pics. When you log a find, DNF or other options, it will save the info and send it to field notes where you simply click, edit and log!

[+Maingray]

 

Edit: I am also wondering how accurate these units are under dense cover, clouds, etc. I am used to my Legend where on a sunny day in the wide open I can only get an accuracy of about 20 feet

 

More accurate the the plain Legend you have, but don't expect *consistent* super better accuracy. Units differ in how they calculate accuracy and the satellite geometry overhead will vary from day to day, a huge impact on accuracy. You would like to see between 5-30 feet on the newer units. The true advantage of the newer units ("H" etrexes, "X" 60/76, PN30/40, CO/OR/Dakota) are the better lock and sensitivity under tree cover, heck even inside buildings.

[+Maingray]

Diferent units fit better for different folks. The $300 is an important factor.

 

How important is car auto-routing to you?

 

The PN-30/40 comes with a topo-based road map, which can do turn by turn although it's imperfect for many reasons. But it would likely suffice it it was secondary function for you.

 

You would need to bolt on a premium routing map to the Garmin units for (much much better) auto-routing..or you could be lucky and find a free routeable map for your garmin. This would take you outside your $300 most likely, but you;d have to look.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Maingray

[+embra]

The sticky at the top of this forum titled "What GPS should I buy?" has several Oregon/PN-40 threads...it takes a while to wade through them, but you're apt to get any information that can be offered.

 

The $40 in free maps isn't a compelling feature: it's really just enough to allow you to sample the different kinds of maps that DeLorme makes available. At their pricing, the $40 gets used up quickly. However, the $30 annual subscription with unlimited downloads *is* a compelling feature IMO.

[+Maingray]

I can see the benefit in aerial imagery for hunting..although the Oregon/CO/D can now take custom maps/aerial imagery, I think that the PN series still has that beat in terms of maturity and it's one stop shop.

 

Your call, I'd still favour a OR 300 for the $250 price, with it's large library of free maps now, plus it's touchscreen+auto-routing functions. If I wasn't bothered about that, I'd buy a PN-40 again (price, I have no idea now.. if too much, a PN-30).

 

Do what embra said, look at links above. amazing choice of units now, they are all good, it's mainly the "extras" that fit better for different people.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Maingray

[+StarBrand]

I have a PN30 and I like it for many reasons but it isn't the best unit for extended field use as it just eats through batteries. Also it has a propritary interface cable and will lose signal lock in some tough conditions. It is great at paperless caching and the included maps are indeed sweet but between the problems I mentioned and some slow autoroutinf - I just have a hard time recomending these units. I want to but I just can't.

 

For paperless Geocaching - It is hard to beat the Garmin Oregon and Colorado units for ease of use and reliability (as long as you have the latest firmware). Also Garmin has made great strides towards allowing custom mapping on these units identical to the Delorme offerings. Sure they cost more but are very nice units.

[+dakboy]

I have a PN30 and I like it for many reasons but it isn't the best unit for extended field use as it just eats through batteries. Also it has a propritary interface cable and will lose signal lock in some tough conditions. It is great at paperless caching and the included maps are indeed sweet but between the problems I mentioned and some slow autoroutinf - I just have a hard time recomending these units. I want to but I just can't.

 

For paperless Geocaching - It is hard to beat the Garmin Oregon and Colorado units for ease of use and reliability (as long as you have the latest firmware). Also Garmin has made great strides towards allowing custom mapping on these units identical to the Delorme offerings.

If loss of signal lock is one of the reasons you can't recommend the PN-30/40, then you have to factor that into your Oregon recommendation too. They use the same GPS chipset and have had the same glitches there.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I have a PN30 and I like it for many reasons but it isn't the best unit for extended field use as it just eats through batteries. Also it has a propritary interface cable and will lose signal lock in some tough conditions. It is great at paperless caching and the included maps are indeed sweet but between the problems I mentioned and some slow autoroutinf - I just have a hard time recomending these units. I want to but I just can't.

 

For paperless Geocaching - It is hard to beat the Garmin Oregon and Colorado units for ease of use and reliability (as long as you have the latest firmware). Also Garmin has made great strides towards allowing custom mapping on these units identical to the Delorme offerings.

If loss of signal lock is one of the reasons you can't recommend the PN-30/40, then you have to factor that into your Oregon recommendation too. They use the same GPS chipset and have had the same glitches there.

 

I believe several have tested accuracy and lock and have reported the PN-40 to be as good as the benchmark 60CSx? I believe this to be true of the new Garmis as well. I don't think lock or accuracy is an issue for any of the units.

[+StarBrand]

....If loss of signal lock is one of the reasons you can't recommend the PN-30/40, then you have to factor that into your Oregon recommendation too. They use the same GPS chipset and have had the same glitches there.

Sadly though - I own both and have carried them together and have seen a clear difference out in the field - so clearly the implementation of that chip set does make a significant difference.

[+dakboy]

....If loss of signal lock is one of the reasons you can't recommend the PN-30/40, then you have to factor that into your Oregon recommendation too. They use the same GPS chipset and have had the same glitches there.

Sadly though - I own both and have carried them together and have seen a clear difference out in the field - so clearly the implementation of that chip set does make a significant difference.

Then it's either the antenna design, or differences in the versions of the chipset firmware shipped by Garmin & DeLorme (that firmware supplied by the chipset maker, whose name escapes me at the moment).

 

We know for a fact that DeLorme has received & shipped at least one chipset firmware revision in one or more of their firmware updates. Maybe Garmin has shipped a newer version (they seem to put out firmware updates a lot more frequently) and/or have advance access to newer versions.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I see a slightly used PN-40 in the for sale section for $210...

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

Greetings! I will make this much more abbreviated than I normally would because my computers keyboard is messing up badly. First of all I upgraded from a Garmin eTrex Vista HCx to a Delorme PN-40 and I can assure you that it was a HUGE upgrade that I have not regretted for a single second. To save me fighting my keyboard I will provide you with links where you can see my views and why I'm such a huge fan of my Delorme PN-40.

 

First of all here's a link to a thread where I shared my views both pro and con of the Delorme PN-40. Don't forget to ask about the cons of units folks are recommending because from what I see in the forums every GPSr has not only pros but cons (including the eTrex Vista HCx you were originally considering). Anyways CLICK HERE if you'd like to see my thoughts on both the pros and cons of the Delorme PN-40 (the PN-30 is very similar to the PN-40 with a couple differences and usually costs about $70 less than it's big brother the PN-40).

 

If you think you may be interested in price comparing the PN models I'd suggest check prices at Walmart.com, Amazon.com, REI.com and other reputable on-line or brick and mortar retailers. Regardless of which GPSr you buy save the receipts and packing materials since most reputable retailers allow returns if you try your new GPSr and decide you bought the wrong one and are having buyers remorse.

 

Good luck in finding the best GPSr for your particular needs and desires!

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

One last thing for you to consider. I think it was at Amazon.com that I saw the PN-30 on sale for about $230 brand new and the PN-40 for about $300 brand new. That was a couple days ago so prices may have fluctuated up or down some since then.

[+snow_rules]

If you live and operate in the US then you can consider both options.

 

If you do not live and/or operate in the US forget the DeLorme unless you are really into making your own maps.

 

...ken...

 

It is actually North America - With T8 you now have Canada, Mexico and U.S. road detail. They just released Canada Topo downloads to the $30/year imagery.

[Ken in Regina]

If you live and operate in the US then you can consider both options.

 

If you do not live and/or operate in the US forget the DeLorme unless you are really into making your own maps.

 

...ken...

 

It is actually North America - With T8 you now have Canada, Mexico and U.S. road detail. They just released Canada Topo downloads to the $30/year imagery.

I have Street Atlas 2010 and if Topo 8 has the same road coverage, the Canadian street and address detail are still not very good compared to products based on Navteq or TeleAtlas data. As for the Canada Topo downloads you mentioned, aren't they raster images?

 

I wonder why people insist on comparing the eTrex Vista HCx to the PN-30/40. They really should be comparing with Garmin models that fully support caching and raster images like the DeLorme. Or to put it another way, if you want the features the PN-40 has then you should find a Garmin model(s) that also has them and that's what should be compared.

 

I'm not a big cacher so maps are the deal breaker for me. For the little caching I do I don't mind using my MyGarmin account to load the cache location directly into my eTrex Legend HCx and cut/paste the hints into the memopad on my PDA.

 

Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

...ken...

Edited November 20, 2009 by Ken in Regina

[+Native20559]

For once I'm gonna agree with Rockin Roddy, LOL.

 

The PN-40 will be as important for your hunting success as a good pair of boots, bow, or rifle. And despite what some may think it performs in a big way. Try it and I know you'll like it!

 

I have a Garmin Oregon 200, a 76Csx (much like the 60CSX and the Vista Hcx which I bought for my daughter and she loves it!!) and have field tested them all extensively, but being a passionate bowhunter here in Colorado, while the others will work more than satisfactorily enough, the PN-40 passes them big time because of the added imagery they can add to your GPS. I have my PN-40 set up with the entire Colorado state's Sat10 imagery, NSGS Topoquads (7.5 min, 1:24K) and the Regional 1:100k Topos all stacked on a 32 gb memory card. There is nothing like it!!! It truley has become a "Serious Tool" for hunting that exceeds just getting "from here to there".

 

Being able to scout terrain from my computer, on my GPS, and on foot opens HUGE doors to potential success. Check it out.

 

Best of luck.

 

Be safe.

 

N

Edited November 20, 2009 by Native20559

[+The Yinnies]

I see a slightly used PN-40 in the for sale section for $210...

Thanks for the help.

[+TotemLake]

If you live and operate in the US then you can consider both options.

 

If you do not live and/or operate in the US forget the DeLorme unless you are really into making your own maps.

 

...ken...

 

It is actually North America - With T8 you now have Canada, Mexico and U.S. road detail. They just released Canada Topo downloads to the $30/year imagery.

I have Street Atlas 2010 and if Topo 8 has the same road coverage, the Canadian street and address detail are still not very good compared to products based on Navteq or TeleAtlas data. As for the Canada Topo downloads you mentioned, aren't they raster images?

 

I wonder why people insist on comparing the eTrex Vista HCx to the PN-30/40. They really should be comparing with Garmin models that fully support caching and raster images like the DeLorme. Or to put it another way, if you want the features the PN-40 has then you should find a Garmin model(s) that also has them and that's what should be compared.

 

I'm not a big cacher so maps are the deal breaker for me. For the little caching I do I don't mind using my MyGarmin account to load the cache location directly into my eTrex Legend HCx and cut/paste the hints into the memopad on my PDA.

 

Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

...ken...

I understand the raster imagery support on the Garmins that can use it is still limited in size and quantity when compared to the DeLorme's capability. Or am I mistaken and this has been corrected?

Edited November 20, 2009 by TotemLake

[Ken in Regina]

I understand the raster imagery support on the Garmins that can use it is still limited in size and quantity when compared to the DeLorme's capability. Or am I mistaken and this has been corrected?

I have no firsthand experience because it's not available for the Legend HCx. What I understand from what I've read so far is that there are some issues that are being actively worked on by Garmin and possibly some things that will turn out to be limitations when the dust settles.

 

But it's so new to the Garmin models that it's way too early to tell what it's going to be when it grows up.

 

My only point was that comparisons oughta be apples to apples and comparing a Vista HCx to a PN-40 isn't. That's not a criticism of either brand. Just me expressing my puzzlement why anyone would do a comparison like that in the first place.

 

...ken...

[+OldA'sFan]

From looking at the Garmin Colorado and the Delorme PN-40, I really like the set up and buttons on the PN better. The screen on the Colorado looks better, but I'd rather have a smaller screen and better functionality. I'm going to try to find a few stores and actually hold the units and navigate through them before I make a final decision.

Go to REI. They will let you try out the various units. While there, be sure and look at the Oregon 300. It will be on sale (starting the 20th) for $249.95. If you like a touch screen it will knock your socks off. I've had a Vista HCx and a PN 40. In my opinion (for geocaching) the Oregon is by far the best unit. It is every bit as accurate as the PN 40, it's upload and download functions are easier to use, and the touch screen is a delight. The screen is not as bright as I would like, but I have not found it to be a hinderance. At $249.95 (in my opinion) it's a no brainer....the Oregon 300 wins big time.

 

OldA'sFan

[+TotemLake]

I understand the raster imagery support on the Garmins that can use it is still limited in size and quantity when compared to the DeLorme's capability. Or am I mistaken and this has been corrected?

I have no firsthand experience because it's not available for the Legend HCx. What I understand from what I've read so far is that there are some issues that are being actively worked on by Garmin and possibly some things that will turn out to be limitations when the dust settles.

 

But it's so new to the Garmin models that it's way too early to tell what it's going to be when it grows up.

 

My only point was that comparisons oughta be apples to apples and comparing a Vista HCx to a PN-40 isn't. That's not a criticism of either brand. Just me expressing my puzzlement why anyone would do a comparison like that in the first place.

 

...ken...

Because they don't know they're apples and oranges and that's why they're asking would be my presumption. With all the brands and models out there and the vastly different pricing between them, it's easy to see why one would assume they would be similar in capability based on the pricing. My guess is if they knew, they wouldn't be asking.

[+Rockin Roddy]

From looking at the Garmin Colorado and the Delorme PN-40, I really like the set up and buttons on the PN better. The screen on the Colorado looks better, but I'd rather have a smaller screen and better functionality. I'm going to try to find a few stores and actually hold the units and navigate through them before I make a final decision.

 

Both are similar, both do some things better than the other. t's simply a matter of preference for you at this point. Do you want the aerial imagery which DeLorme has a much better ability for over the Garmin? Do you want the bigger screen (really, the only big advantage in this instance)?

 

Someone stated the transfers were easier with the Garmin? I assume we're talking PQ transfer here...and I'd have to disagree. While the two are about the same when using just the T8 to transfer for the DeLorme, DeLorme has the edge when you splurge for the $10 Cache Register app. With CR, simply run the PQ and then sync the unit with the CR app and you're done! No unzipping, no searching for the PQ, it's there and done with a click! Uploading field notes via CR is just as simple, just sync with a new PQ and the notes are uploaded and waiting. But truly, both units are simple to load!! Also, both units can use the "send to GPS" function from the cache page, loading a PQ OR a single cache is sooo simple!!

 

One drawback for the PN, battery life! Yes, the PNs love their batteries, you go througha fresh rechargeable set in about 8-11 hours depending on brand. I think the Garmin gets a slight better life, but not sure how much better...probably only an hour or two? I fixed this (for me) with the purchase of the power travel kit which has a battery pak and car charger/power cord. Simply plug in while in the car and there you go! I rarely run my battery pak down to dead, I haven't opened my battery compartment since owning the kit! When using it away from the car, the battery pak lasts 8 hours of continuous use.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I understand the raster imagery support on the Garmins that can use it is still limited in size and quantity when compared to the DeLorme's capability. Or am I mistaken and this has been corrected?

I have no firsthand experience because it's not available for the Legend HCx. What I understand from what I've read so far is that there are some issues that are being actively worked on by Garmin and possibly some things that will turn out to be limitations when the dust settles.

 

But it's so new to the Garmin models that it's way too early to tell what it's going to be when it grows up.

 

My only point was that comparisons oughta be apples to apples and comparing a Vista HCx to a PN-40 isn't. That's not a criticism of either brand. Just me expressing my puzzlement why anyone would do a comparison like that in the first place.

 

...ken...

Because they don't know they're apples and oranges and that's why they're asking would be my presumption. With all the brands and models out there and the vastly different pricing between them, it's easy to see why one would assume they would be similar in capability based on the pricing. My guess is if they knew, they wouldn't be asking.

 

I'm thinking TL hit the nail on the head here! Newbs and even seasoned cachers can be confused by all the different units on the market these days...

[NordicMan]

Yes, the PNs love their batteries, you go througha fresh rechargeable set in about 8-11 hours depending on brand. I think the Garmin gets a slight better life, but not sure how much better...probably only an hour or two?

 

The battey life for the Vista HCx the OP was asking about is rated for 25 hours. Oregons/Colorados/Dakotas are rated for ~15-20 hours depending on model.. This can be a serious consideration especially for someone using a GPSr for hunting.

I used to go deer hunting for a week at a time. Our base camp had no electricity except for a gasoline generator which made "recharging" batteries impractical. How many pairs of AA's would I need to bring along to ensure consistent GPSr use for a full week?

[+dakboy]

The battey life for the Vista HCx the OP was asking about is rated for 25 hours. Oregons/Colorados/Dakotas are rated for ~15-20 hours depending on model.. This can be a serious consideration especially for someone using a GPSr for hunting.

I used to go deer hunting for a week at a time. Our base camp had no electricity except for a gasoline generator which made "recharging" batteries impractical. How many pairs of AA's would I need to bring along to ensure consistent GPSr use for a full week?

How many hours do you need the GPSr active? Presumably when you're out hunting you're stationary for long periods of time; no sense in leaving it powered up if you're sitting in a duck blind for 6 hours.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Yes, the PNs love their batteries, you go througha fresh rechargeable set in about 8-11 hours depending on brand. I think the Garmin gets a slight better life, but not sure how much better...probably only an hour or two?

 

The battey life for the Vista HCx the OP was asking about is rated for 25 hours. Oregons/Colorados/Dakotas are rated for ~15-20 hours depending on model.. This can be a serious consideration especially for someone using a GPSr for hunting.

I used to go deer hunting for a week at a time. Our base camp had no electricity except for a gasoline generator which made "recharging" batteries impractical. How many pairs of AA's would I need to bring along to ensure consistent GPSr use for a full week?

 

First, I believe the conversation swung to the CO and not the Vista. Second, you'll need to do the math on that, I can't answer as to how you use your unit. Are you telling me you'd need to keep the unit on during times of sitting (assuming you do sit and not just wander about)? Most people I know sit ein a stand or of such and would only need to use the GPS to find their way in/out of the woods... with that in mind, giving the hike in/out about an hour at average, I would say a few spare pairs of batteries (which, btw, don't take up any room at all and weigh very litle) would do the trick!

 

BUT, let's think about this:

 

Since you probably drove there (right??) wouldn't you have access to a vehicle? With the PN, you can charge right from the vehicle with the power kit. So, what's the problem? One set of batteries would be all that's needed

[NordicMan]

Roddy I did include the battery specs for the Colorado too.

 

During our week out deer hunting, yes some days I would pull the "tree stand card" and just need the GPSr to get me to-&-from the stand. Yep no need to keep the thing running while sitting in the stand.. but I will periodically get up & do some travelling then stop again. Do I want to keep remembering to turn the GPSr on/off each time? Ok I could,,, it would improve battery life but that would also give me a badly broken track log of my day

..other days I pull the "flush card" and will be waundering all over the place, sometimes with dogs. The GPS needs to be working the whole day,, and the GPSr I use needs to function as requred on the worst-case-scenerio day, right? Even if I did stop mid-day and swapped batteries, wouldn't that also break up my track log? Sorry, pass on that.

And, we ride ATVs hauling small trailers to the camp site. Like I said, no opportunity to recharge batteries..

[+TotemLake]

The beauty about the multitude of choices is there is typically a best fit for everyone.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Roddy I did include the battery specs for the Colorado too.

 

During our week out deer hunting, yes some days I would pull the "tree stand card" and just need the GPSr to get me to-&-from the stand. Yep no need to keep the thing running while sitting in the stand.. but I will periodically get up & do some travelling then stop again. Do I want to keep remembering to turn the GPSr on/off each time? Ok I could,,, it would improve battery life but that would also give me a badly broken track log of my day

..other days I pull the "flush card" and will be waundering all over the place, sometimes with dogs. The GPS needs to be working the whole day,, and the GPSr I use needs to function as requred on the worst-case-scenerio day, right? Even if I did stop mid-day and swapped batteries, wouldn't that also break up my track log? Sorry, pass on that.

And, we ride ATVs hauling small trailers to the camp site. Like I said, no opportunity to recharge batteries..

 

I find it hard to believe you'd forget to turn the unit back on before moving on, but I suppose it is possible. Also possible you could be walking in circles if you don't know the area, but that's neither here nor there. Are you saying you'd have a break if the batteries were replaced? Why? Would you be walking for long time not realizing the battery died? And, if sitting in a stand, how would the track be broken at all even if turned off? Unless you need time stamped data of where you sat and how long? I'm having trouble following this as well. Also, wouldn't you have to break it into a few tracks for such a long week of continual usage anyway?

 

I'll ask you this, how many batteries would you need to carry for teh Garmins then? If carrying a few spare pairs is a problem, wouldn't the problem still be there with the Garmins? Do the Garmin batteries never die, or would you also have breaks in track when needing to change them out? If you don't like carrying a few spare batteries, couldn't you hook up a cig adaptor to one of the ATVs...I know I have in the past for spotlight usage, so this shouldn't be a problem and is a quick fix.

 

Like TL said, there's choices for every use...and there's even practical solutions for most...if one thinks about it!

Edited November 20, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+TotemLake]

Well the reason I said it was because NordicMan clearly likes working with the GPS the way he works with it. Challenging his usage is pointless just the same as challenging your usage is pointless.

 

Some people like the battery longevity because they can turn it on put it away and focus on what's important to them untill the end of the day. When hunting, a simple moment fidgeting with your gadget can cause you to miss your intended target walking by.

 

It's going to be up to the individual what works best for them.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

...... How many pairs of AA's would I need to bring along to ensure consistent GPSr use for a full week?

To keep a PN-40 powered up 24/(one 7)?

I would expect the weight of the AAs to be hauled in as less than the weight of the deer to be hauled out?

 

...just sayin'.......

[+Chi-Town Cacher]

Ok, let me make sure I understand this correctly on the Delorme's battery life. For the average geocacher that will be using his GPSr to geocache for a week or two at a time in the back country of the Grand Teton National Park (or a similar type park in other countries like Canada) the Delorme PN-30 or PN-40 would not be the best choice based on it not having the best battery life. Now, on the other hand for the minority of the geocachers who like me only go caching for 1 day at a time and don't mind carrying 2 little spare AA batteries then the Delorme PN-30 or PN-40 might be a reasonable choice. Is that about accurate?

[+user13371]

How many pairs of AA's would I need to bring along to ensure consistent (PN-40) GPSr use for a full week?

I'll take a WAG at this one.

 

If you seriously need 24/7 and have no option for recharging ... I'd go with Eveready E2 Lithium. These are primary, non-rechargeable and last quite a bit longer than alkaline primary or nimh rechargeable. They're also lightweight compared to the alternatives.

 

My usual battery philosophy is to make your worst case estimate, and then throw an extra set of batteries into your pack on top of what you expect to need. Figure two pairs a day AT MOST if you really leave it on when you're sleeping, use the backlight a lot, spend most of your time on the moving-map screen So... (14+1)*2 = 30 batteries.

 

BUT: A more realistic usage pattern, turning the thing off when you don't need it (staying in one spot for hours, sleeping) and reasonable habits (dim the backlight, looking at a screen that doesn't constantly update if you don't need it, etc)... you might get a day or more from each pair. So... (7+1)*2 = 16.

 

Which pattern is closer to your intended usage?

Edited November 20, 2009 by lee_rimar

[NordicMan]

..I'll ask you this, how many batteries would you need to carry for teh Garmins then? If carrying a few spare pairs is a problem, wouldn't the problem still be there with the Garmins?..

Ok, I don't want to beat this topic to death. And, sorry if my explanation was unclear. No I don't run the GPSr 24/7 "continuous for 7 days", who needs a track log while sleeping? lol

 

What I do mean though is, our day starts before sunrise and goes to past sunset. I start with a fresh set of batteries in the GPSr and expect it to work a full day without fail. Late in the afternoon I do not want to pull it out of my pocket and see a blank screen because the batteries have died

At the end of the day I will save that day's track log to memory and shut the unit off, then repeat that pattern all week. So, for the Garmin situation I bring 7 pairs of fresh AA's, one pair per day.

On a partularly long trek day when I need to be certain the GPSr won't let me down I will bring a spare pair of AA's in a spare GPSr. I've kept my old Lowrance iFinder Pro for just that purpose. It's good peace of mind to have a backup.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

What we have here is another apples to oranges discussion.

But not one of comparing non-comparable handheld GPSrs,

but one of comparing non-comparable concepts of operation.

That is, comparing vehicle centered usages vs. usages while on foot.

 

Now to look at the latter, extended back packing trips for example,

one should rightly be concerned with expendable battery consumption

and how many pounds per day are required.

 

On the other hand, for trips into the back country using an SUV,

I use my 12VDC charger to keep the Li-Ion battery pack in my PN-40

up and going. I also carry several packs of AAs, but I can't recall

busting into them for my PN-40.

Similarly, for my geocache excursions. I have never walked for a

4 - 6 hour stretch going from cache to cache. As with most,

99% or more I expect, I'm spending as much time in my SUV driving

from cache to cache as I am walking from my SUV to the cache.

 

Now, looking back at post #1, I note that the OP's concept of operations

is two fold: geocaching and hunting.

Geocaching - as outlined above, unless the OP's mode of geocaching is

contrary to that of 99% of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles,

the comparatively higher battery consumption of the PN-40 is of no consequence.

Hunting - help me out here, I am not a hunter. Anybody ever hunted on a 3 - 4 day

backpacking trip and not return to a vehicle during time? How would it have been

to carry (in and out), in addition to the gun both ways (in and out), the ammo (in) and the game (out),

the 16 AA batteries as estimated above by Lee?

 

So, in retrospect, why should this OP be concerned expendable battery consumption?

Edited November 20, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+StarBrand]

Having nearly analyzed it to death - the fact remains that my PN30 uses about 2.1 batteries for every 1 that my Oregon 200 uses and 4 for every 1 that my Legend HCx uses. If that matters to you - take it into consideration, if not - ignore it.

[+Maingray]

What Starbrand said. PN-40 is a fast dual processor unit, needed for all that imagery. The downside of that is bad battery life.

 

Plus..

 

 

Geocaching - as outlined above, unless the OP's mode of geocaching is

contrary to that of 99% of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles,

the comparatively higher battery consumption of the PN-40 is of no consequence.

 

Incorrect generalization from one viewpoint. 99% of cachers I cache with in cars never use power cables in the car. Too fiddly with all that jumping outta cars, and just plain don't carry cables with them. Battery life is all important for even car caching (Another reason why people who cache for many hours a day even in a car soon drop the iphone as their primary device... dies too quickly)

[+Team CowboyPapa]

What Starbrand said. PN-40 is a fast dual processor unit, needed for all that imagery. The downside of that is bad battery life.

 

Plus..

 

 

Geocaching - as outlined above, unless the OP's mode of geocaching is

contrary to that of 99% of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles,

the comparatively higher battery consumption of the PN-40 is of no consequence.

 

Incorrect generalization from one viewpoint. 99% of cachers I cache with in cars never use power cables in the car. Too fiddly with all that jumping outta cars, and just plain don't carry cables with them. Battery life is all important for even car caching (Another reason why people who cache for many hours a day even in a car soon drop the iphone as their primary device... dies too quickly)

I think you need to reread that.

"...99% of of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles...."

is not the same as

"...99% of geocachers use cars AND connect their GPSrs to their 12VDC while driving from cache to cache..."

 

Note that it is only sensible for those whose GPSrs can be powered by rechargeable batteries whose rechargeable batteries can be recharged when installed in their GPSrs.

Or, pretty much leaves it to the users of PN-XXs, AFAIK.

 

Or, are there other models whose batteries can be recharged while driving and batteries are in the units?

So, yes, you are correct in your observations as long as 99% of your cohorts do not have DeLormes.

 

Think about it from a human factors perspective, if you will.

Is sliding the connector in any more involved than inserting your key in the ignition?

 

Also note that the OP did not state that he would be caching with 2 or 3 others and relegated to the back seat where access to a 12VDC source is impractical.

Did I make the faulty assumption that he might be the driver when he caches as I do and find it not inconvenient to detach the cable in when I remove the key in the ignition prior to decarring (similar to deplaning as a flight attendant would say)?

 

....just sayin'....

Edited November 22, 2009 by Team CowboyPapa

[+Maingray]

What Starbrand said. PN-40 is a fast dual processor unit, needed for all that imagery. The downside of that is bad battery life.

 

Plus..

 

 

Geocaching - as outlined above, unless the OP's mode of geocaching is

contrary to that of 99% of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles,

the comparatively higher battery consumption of the PN-40 is of no consequence.

 

Incorrect generalization from one viewpoint. 99% of cachers I cache with in cars never use power cables in the car. Too fiddly with all that jumping outta cars, and just plain don't carry cables with them. Battery life is all important for even car caching (Another reason why people who cache for many hours a day even in a car soon drop the iphone as their primary device... dies too quickly)

I think you need to reread that.

"...99% of of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles...."

is not the same as

"...99% of geocachers use cars AND connect their GPSrs to their 12VDC while driving from cache to cache..."

 

Note that it is only sensible for those whose GPSrs can be powered by rechargeable batteries whose rechargeable batteries can be recharged when installed in their GPSrs.

Or, pretty much leaves it to the users of PN-XXs, AFAIK.

 

Or, are there other models whose batteries can be recharged while driving and batteries are in the units?

So, yes, you are correct in your observations as long as 99% of your cohorts do not have DeLormes.

 

Think about it from a human factors perspective, if you will.

Is sliding the connector in any more involved than inserting your key in the ignition?

 

Also note that the OP did not state that he would be caching with 2 or 3 others and relegated to the back seat where access to a 12VDC source is impractical.

Did I make the faulty assumption that he might be the driver when he caches as I do and find it not inconvenient to detach the cable in when I remove the key in the ignition prior to decarring (similar to deplaning as a flight attendant would say)?

 

....just sayin'....

 

Actually that Delorme pn40 cache driver is too busy consulting paper maps as they are lost, so sure they'll have time to plug their unit in and out . But seriously, I cache with many different people and no-one sits there in a car with a powr cord, apart from the driver. We have a pool of rechargeables for the extra long days. Let's just say the sole Delorme user* I know has bought stock in a battery company

 

* he also has trouble getting girlfriends.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Maingray

[+Rockin Roddy]

What Starbrand said. PN-40 is a fast dual processor unit, needed for all that imagery. The downside of that is bad battery life.

 

Plus..

 

 

Geocaching - as outlined above, unless the OP's mode of geocaching is

contrary to that of 99% of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles,

the comparatively higher battery consumption of the PN-40 is of no consequence.

 

Incorrect generalization from one viewpoint. 99% of cachers I cache with in cars never use power cables in the car. Too fiddly with all that jumping outta cars, and just plain don't carry cables with them. Battery life is all important for even car caching (Another reason why people who cache for many hours a day even in a car soon drop the iphone as their primary device... dies too quickly)

I think you need to reread that.

"...99% of of geocachers whose caching is using vehicles...."

is not the same as

"...99% of geocachers use cars AND connect their GPSrs to their 12VDC while driving from cache to cache..."

 

Note that it is only sensible for those whose GPSrs can be powered by rechargeable batteries whose rechargeable batteries can be recharged when installed in their GPSrs.

Or, pretty much leaves it to the users of PN-XXs, AFAIK.

 

Or, are there other models whose batteries can be recharged while driving and batteries are in the units?

So, yes, you are correct in your observations as long as 99% of your cohorts do not have DeLormes.

 

Think about it from a human factors perspective, if you will.

Is sliding the connector in any more involved than inserting your key in the ignition?

 

Also note that the OP did not state that he would be caching with 2 or 3 others and relegated to the back seat where access to a 12VDC source is impractical.

Did I make the faulty assumption that he might be the driver when he caches as I do and find it not inconvenient to detach the cable in when I remove the key in the ignition prior to decarring (similar to deplaning as a flight attendant would say)?

 

....just sayin'....

 

Actually that Delorme pn40 cache driver is too busy consulting paper maps as they are lost, so sure they'll have time to plug their unit in and out . But seriously, I cache with many different people and no-one sits there in a car with a powr cord, apart from the driver. We have a pool of rechargeables for the extra long days. Let's just say the sole Delorme user* I know has bought stock in a battery company

 

* he also has trouble getting girlfriends.

 

I like the belittling tone of this post...nice! Since I use my PN-40 for my SOLE car nav unit, I will tell you I have NO NEED for maps other than what's on my unit. I have NO NEED to worry about being lost, my unit does an AWESOME job, thank you very much!

 

As a note, I own the PN-40 AND have the power pak adaptor which slides right into the back of the unit. With the 2 piece car/computer/home carger cord, I can simply plug in and unplug ANYTIME I enter the car and I usually do if we're driving more than say 10 miles to the next cache. Sadly, DeLorme stopped making that adaptor/cord set, it surely is a sweet piece of equipment. And you know what, I cannot recall the last time I needed to switch out my battery pak, it lasts as long (well, LONGER) than I do and I've been on some pretty long cache days!

 

You can continue to belittle all you please, but I think your credibility sours when you post in this way. If you need to belittle to make a point, the point must not be very strong.

 

..just saying

[+The_Rabas']

I know this thread is more about the PN30 & 40, but if price is a concern, the PN20 is on sale at wal mart for $99. My two cents.

[+Maingray]

 

You can continue to belittle all you please, but I think your credibility sours when you post in this way. If you need to belittle to make a point, the point must not be very strong.

 

..just saying

 

Lighten up, I already gave my opinions further up, heck I think I even recommended the Delorme I was just (sayin') that no, I actually disagree with TCP based on my observations that actually most cachers in cars do rely on the batteries. Certainly doesn't bother me how much battery life the delormes get, I fixed that problem.

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

You can continue to belittle all you please, but I think your credibility sours when you post in this way. If you need to belittle to make a point, the point must not be very strong.

 

..just saying

 

Lighten up, I already gave my opinions further up, heck I think I even recommended the Delorme I was just (sayin') that no, I actually disagree with TCP based on my observations that actually most cachers in cars do rely on the batteries. Certainly doesn't bother me how much battery life the delormes get, I fixed that problem.

 

Just pointing this out to you. No need for me to lighten up, I think I was on point! We all have our ways of fixing the problem at hand, you chose to buy a Garmin which, when you look at it, only really gave you an hour or three extra battery life? Depending on the battery used, the DeLorme will get upwards of 11 hours on one set! But, since I get MUCH longer using my appraoch, I am happy as well!!

 

Life is good! Choice is good! Telling it like it truly is is good!

 

And truly, I disagree with your disagreement. I cache with only a few friends, but 99% of them actually DO use the power cable when in the car. Some of those are even Garmin users! I suspect the main reason being the brighter lighting for ease of reading the unit while driving...

Edited November 22, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+Maingray]

Exactly why I said TCP over generalized with his observations. Not everyone does the same thing. Totem Lake is a wise man earlier in this thread @ http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...&st=0 .

 

He also likes CurmudgeonlyGal, as I do. That makes him even wiser And dang, now it's over two pages.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Maingray

[+Rockin Roddy]

I believe also that the difference in using a cable while driving would be the environment you cahe in. For me, I often travel a good distance (most caches around me are either found or waiting for a day when I have little money and the urge to cache). If I were stopping evey .25 miles, I wouldn't be plugging in either...

[+Hynr]

I'll add my 2-cents worth:

 

I upgraded to the PN-40 from a 60CSx. And I do mean "upgrade". If you still enjoy your Etrex, then you will love the PN-30/40 much more than what you would get for the same price from Garmin.

 

To get all the features that your get with the PN-30/40 (full mapping software for the PC + routeable Topo maps for GPSr + the GPSr at list $399 for PN-40) from a Garmin GPSr would require an investment of (list) $698.00 (Colorado 400t + routable street map add-on). Is the $300 difference worth the larger screen on the Colorado? - you be the judge. Actual prices are proportionately lower and vary seasonally.

 

Since your max price is 300, you will have to hunt and wait for opportunity (I got my PN-40 for $299); the PN-30 is likely within your reach today.

 

Be very careful getting these units used. I would advise against it unless you can hold it in your hand and test-drive it for a day to make sure it is working properly. Read the DeLorme Forum and follow your instincts.

 

As for battery use: would you ever go out with any of these GPSrs for a full day of caching without a set of extra AAs? Does it bother you to pop the extra set in mid afternoon vs later in the day? Then it's an issue; otherwise I would say it is not a factor. I don't bother plugging in the cable in the car while caching unless I'll be driving for an hour or so without stopping.

 

As for accuracy: I have not been able to determine any difference among all the high-sensitivity devices. My wife still uses her 60CSx; we usually cache together. I have not noticed an advantage either for her or me.

[kidcabe]

Lots of DeLorme sales going on now listed here:

 

http://bestgpsdeals.net/

 

Team DeLorme