More swag muggling

[+Matt_B_Good]

I checked one of my caches today. Now the swag was nothing big just a few cheap things but we left 4 or 5 small things. there were only 2 of them left. I'm not going to replace those things, sooner or later I guess it will just be the log. The items were not worth much at all but gee you think they could have left something in place of what they took. Is this just by me or is this everywhere people do this? There were only 5 logs on this cache. Kind of takes the joy out of it a little. I know, there is nothing I can do about it but considering that people just simply take stuff I'm leaning more and more toward making my future hides just a container and logbook. It is just not worth it if the swag gets reduced so quickly. I'm starting to understand why there are so many micros out there.

[+vw_k]

Unfortunately this does happen. I have no interest in swag personally and just enjoy the hunt but I can understand what a shame it must be for cachers with kids not finding anything interesting. I think if you want to have a well stocked cache with decent swag you'll have to check it regularly and be prepared to re-stock it.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

It happens.

 

It's just one of those things that you have to accept as part of the process.

[Mr.Yuck]

I checked one of my caches today. Now the swag was nothing big just a few cheap things but we left 4 or 5 small things. there were only 2 of them left. I'm not going to replace those things, sooner or later I guess it will just be the log. The items were not worth much at all but gee you think they could have left something in place of what they took. Is this just by me or is this everywhere people do this?

 

I understand your frustration, but believe me, it's everywhere. I'm not the oldest of the old school (but pretty old), and it was happening when most caches were regulars in the woods.

 

TWU's theorem: The longer a cache sits in the woods, the more the value of it's contents approach zero.

[4wheelin_fool]

I've put out several caches with only $1 or $2 items from walmart. Many initial logs say "wow great trade items" Later I check on them and find mostly broken or worthless stuff. It's a little disappointing, but the site bills it as a "treasure hunt" not a trade hunt.

 

When I cache, I don't usually trade anything, but if there is something interesting, I'll leave a few dollars in place, and despite the geojunk, it's still fun.

[+Matt_B_Good]

How disappointing to learn about this. I first noticed this happening it the caches around areas where people camp. It is just plain dirty pool to just take things and leave nothing especially how it gets depleted so very fast. Swag is not my biggest concern. I rarely trade but when I do it is always according to guidelines. It is a dirty shame so many don't.

[+Vater_Araignee]

I checked one of my caches today. Now the swag was nothing big just a few cheap things but we left 4 or 5 small things. there were only 2 of them left. I'm not going to replace those things, sooner or later I guess it will just be the log. The items were not worth much at all but gee you think they could have left something in place of what they took. Is this just by me or is this everywhere people do this?

 

I understand your frustration, but believe me, it's everywhere. I'm not the oldest of the old school (but pretty old), and it was happening when most caches were regulars in the woods.

 

TWU's theorem: The longer a cache sits in the woods, the more the value of it's contents approach zero.

and when you factor in distance to a populated area and population size,the speed to Ø increases.

 

Matt_B_Good,

Mind if I ask your age?

[GOF and Bacall]

Matt! Buddy! Didn't we just cover this ground a couple weeks ago? You need to let it go or it is going to bleed all the fun out of this hobby. It sucks, but it is a fact of life in the geocaching world.

[+smstext]

i can feel for the original poster, i too posted similar recently after my first 3 caches went out with $10-$15 of stuff in it to be worth now around $2 a cache. I have recently just been placing 35mm canisters out and turned one of my caches into a tb hotel as there isnt much swaps left in it, also makes a great place for me to drop off all the tb's and coins ive found over the week.

 

You will get cachers who come along and put more trinkets back into it, but at the end of the day most only sign the logs and move coins n bugs along and leave the trinkets to the kids. Again dont let it get to you, if you can pick up some cheap stuff in $1 shops and car boot sales then use them and save some money. However most people who do trade do so correctly.

 

@GOF yes i think it might have been me last month.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

I believe that the reference was to this thread also started by the OP.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...232162&st=0

[+Vater_Araignee]

I believe that the reference was to this thread also started by the OP.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...232162&st=0

I aint even got to look, that is the thread about jumping deer and taking their wallets.

[GOF and Bacall]

Yup, Motorcycle Momma got the right one.

[Clan Riffster]

Matt, in answer to your question, no, this is not a global problem. Very few of my hides ever experience swag degradation. I recently took several folks on an outing which included visiting several of my hides placed between Oct '06 and Nov '07, and found the overall swag value of each cache to be equal or better to what I originally left. These hides are all very difficult to reach. However, our earliest hide, which requires only a brief hike and minuscule bushwhack, suffers almost constant swag deterioration.

 

It seems that the harder your cache is to reach, the slower the swag will become devalued.

 

While avoiding hiding P&Gs is not a guarantee, it sure does seem to help.

 

No need to infect your region with micro spew.

 

{edit to fix glaring error}

Edited October 5, 2009 by Clan Riffster

[+Chrysalides]

It seems that the harder your cache is to reach, the quicker the swag will become devalued.

I think you mean the opposite

[Clan Riffster]

OOPS! Nice catch.

(Note: Never type while eating)

[+L0ne.R]

No need to infect your region with micro spew.

 

I agree. Better not to plant at all then resort to cheap micro hides. A cheap micro placed only so the CO doesn't have to spend any money, is more irritating then a box full of cheap swag.

[+Arrow42]

I checked one of my caches today. Now the swag was nothing big just a few cheap things but we left 4 or 5 small things. there were only 2 of them left. I'm not going to replace those things, sooner or later I guess it will just be the log. The items were not worth much at all but gee you think they could have left something in place of what they took. Is this just by me or is this everywhere people do this? There were only 5 logs on this cache. Kind of takes the joy out of it a little. I know, there is nothing I can do about it but considering that people just simply take stuff I'm leaning more and more toward making my future hides just a container and logbook. It is just not worth it if the swag gets reduced so quickly. I'm starting to understand why there are so many micros out there.

 

I try to live by the mantra "Be the kind of cacher you want other to be". I don't usually trade, but I frequently will leave an item or two without taking anything if the cache is sparse. How wheels, arrowheads, key chains, carabiners, playing cards, flashlights... you know, that kind of thing.

[AZcachemeister]

Matt, in answer to your question, no, this is not a global problem. Very few of my hides ever experience swag degradation. I recently took several folks on an outing which included visiting several of my hides placed between Oct '06 and Nov '07, and found the overall swag value of each cache to be equal or better to what I originally left. These hides are all very difficult to reach. However, our earliest hide, which requires only a brief hike and minuscule bushwhack, suffers almost constant swag deterioration.

 

It seems that the harder your cache is to reach, the slower the swag will become devalued.

 

While avoiding hiding P&Gs is not a guarantee, it sure does seem to help.

 

No need to infect your region with micro spew.

 

{edit to fix glaring error}

 

Mind if we call this the Clan Riffster Cache Difficulty-SWAG Deterioration Corollary?

CRCDSDC

Do ya think it has anything to do with the type of cachers willing to put out that extra effort to get to those caches?

[+Chrysalides]

I agree. Better not to plant at all then resort to cheap micro hides. A cheap micro placed only so the CO doesn't have to spend any money, is more irritating then a box full of cheap swag.

Why?

 

And would an expensive micro container be any better?

Edited October 5, 2009 by Chrysalides

[+Matt_B_Good]

I checked one of my caches today. Now the swag was nothing big just a few cheap things but we left 4 or 5 small things. there were only 2 of them left. I'm not going to replace those things, sooner or later I guess it will just be the log. The items were not worth much at all but gee you think they could have left something in place of what they took. Is this just by me or is this everywhere people do this?

 

I understand your frustration, but believe me, it's everywhere. I'm not the oldest of the old school (but pretty old), and it was happening when most caches were regulars in the woods.

 

TWU's theorem: The longer a cache sits in the woods, the more the value of it's contents approach zero.

and when you factor in distance to a populated area and population size,the speed to Ø increases.

 

Matt_B_Good,

Mind if I ask your age?

 

You first

[+Matt_B_Good]

I believe that the reference was to this thread also started by the OP.

 

[+Matt_B_Good]

Matt, in answer to your question, no, this is not a global problem. Very few of my hides ever experience swag degradation. I recently took several folks on an outing which included visiting several of my hides placed between Oct '06 and Nov '07, and found the overall swag value of each cache to be equal or better to what I originally left. These hides are all very difficult to reach. However, our earliest hide, which requires only a brief hike and minuscule bushwhack, suffers almost constant swag deterioration.

 

It seems that the harder your cache is to reach, the slower the swag will become devalued.

 

While avoiding hiding P&Gs is not a guarantee, it sure does seem to help.

 

No need to infect your region with micro spew.

 

{edit to fix glaring error}

 

Your in Florida. 90% of the population is old people and their parents. In all seriousness though from what I have observed the largest grabbers of Swag are children under 16. The cache that was reduced to two small items is near where many children that age are near and it is a park and grab. I have simply decided to let it be as is. I am not going to restock it. There are cachers who leave things and don't take anything. it is not really fair to them either but they choose to do it and from what I find are usually of retirement age and just feel good about contributing. That is great that they do that but if more people followed the guidelines what they left would stay longer and better. So with these things combined it makes sense that Florida caches are better swag wise than say up here in Northeast Wisconsin. I am not planning to plant a bunch of micros. My caches tend to be smalls. I am planning a regular and large. I am planning one Micro but it is on the larger side and don't have much choice either the micro or nothing. For the most part I plan on having it be just the container and the logbook and maybe some real cheap items. That way if people want to leave something they can but at least it won't erode so badly.

[Clan Riffster]

Do ya think it has anything to do with the type of cachers willing to put out that extra effort to get to those caches?

Absolutely! I know when I prep for a challenging cache, I tend to bring my best swag to leave.

Judging by what I've found in my difficult hides, others have similar ideas.

 

So with these things combined it makes sense that Florida caches are better swag wise than say up here in Northeast Wisconsin.

I think it has more to do with the mentality of those folks who specifically target P&Gs.

The regular sized P&Gs around here suffer the same fate as the ones up there.

Try this as a test: Hide a regular with standard swag in Wisconsin.

Make it at least a 2 mile hike through a swamp.

Go back in a couple years and see how your swag fares.

[+Matt_B_Good]

Do ya think it has anything to do with the type of cachers willing to put out that extra effort to get to those caches?

Absolutely! I know when I prep for a challenging cache, I tend to bring my best swag to leave.

Judging by what I've found in my difficult hides, others have similar ideas.

 

So with these things combined it makes sense that Florida caches are better swag wise than say up here in Northeast Wisconsin.

I think it has more to do with the mentality of those folks who specifically target P&Gs.

The regular sized P&Gs around here suffer the same fate as the ones up there.

Try this as a test: Hide a regular with standard swag in Wisconsin.

Make it at least a 2 mile hike through a swamp.

Go back in a couple years and see how your swag fares.

 

This is the kind of advice I am looking for. I am planning a difficulty 4.5 terrain 3-3.5 Three stage multi stage cache. It is a walk through a swamp but not 2 miles more like a Half mile to mile walk depending on the route taken. It will be on private land and contain a sheet stating site policy on swag and TB and the value will be stated on the items. That way at least if someone trades down or simply takes and leaves nothing I know they did it fully intentionally. They will not be able blame it on ignorance. I'm hoping I can get at least one cache to stay they way it was intended to be. If the thing just gets muggled I am not going to restock it though. I do intend on checking the cache often though to see how it is doing but mostly to see that it is where I left it.

[+Matt_B_Good]

I checked one of my caches today. Now the swag was nothing big just a few cheap things but we left 4 or 5 small things. there were only 2 of them left. I'm not going to replace those things, sooner or later I guess it will just be the log. The items were not worth much at all but gee you think they could have left something in place of what they took. Is this just by me or is this everywhere people do this? There were only 5 logs on this cache. Kind of takes the joy out of it a little. I know, there is nothing I can do about it but considering that people just simply take stuff I'm leaning more and more toward making my future hides just a container and logbook. It is just not worth it if the swag gets reduced so quickly. I'm starting to understand why there are so many micros out there.

 

I try to live by the mantra "Be the kind of cacher you want other to be". I don't usually trade, but I frequently will leave an item or two without taking anything if the cache is sparse. How wheels, arrowheads, key chains, carabiners, playing cards, flashlights... you know, that kind of thing.

 

You get an A+ in my book.

[+Castle Mischief]

Wisconsin has swamps...?

 

I feel the need to admit that I recently took swag and didn't realize that I failed to swap until I got home. Forgive me Signal, for I have sinned.

 

In restitution I plan to plant two nice puzzle caches full of nice swag before the end of the month.

[+StarBrand]

Best we can do is lead by example. Always trade up or trade even. Leave a few items if the cache is looking empty. That what we try to do.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

Sometimes we leave something but almost never take anything.

We most certainly didn't trade anything yesterday when I found an empty TicTac container in a cache.

[+Matt_B_Good]

Wisconsin has swamps...?

 

I feel the need to admit that I recently took swag and didn't realize that I failed to swap until I got home. Forgive me Signal, for I have sinned.

 

In restitution I plan to plant two nice puzzle caches full of nice swag before the end of the month.

 

Have you never been to Wisconsin? There are many swamps in Wisconsin. Nothing huge like the everglades and the cold winters keeps the alligators away. Still plenty of frogs in spring though. Forgetting to swap is a little different than intentionally just taking stuff like some seem to. I wonder if it is always people that are registered users of the site that just take stuff? From what I have seen tourist areas seem to be the worst for just taking stuff. Ever find any caches around a campground? I never saw any good trade items in them.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Wisconsin has swamps...?

 

I feel the need to admit that I recently took swag and didn't realize that I failed to swap until I got home. Forgive me Signal, for I have sinned.

 

In restitution I plan to plant two nice puzzle caches full of nice swag before the end of the month.

 

Have you never been to Wisconsin? There are many swamps in Wisconsin. Nothing huge like the everglades and the cold winters keeps the alligators away. Still plenty of frogs in spring though. Forgetting to swap is a little different than intentionally just taking stuff like some seem to. I wonder if it is always people that are registered users of the site that just take stuff? From what I have seen tourist areas seem to be the worst for just taking stuff. Ever find any caches around a campground? I never saw any good trade items in them.

 

How do you know that it's intentional?

[+StarBrand]

....

I wonder if it is always people that are registered users of the site that just take stuff? From what I have seen tourist areas seem to be the worst for just taking stuff. Ever find any caches around a campground? I never saw any good trade items in them.

What campgrounds, where? Lots of assumptions you are making......

[+Matt_B_Good]

....

I wonder if it is always people that are registered users of the site that just take stuff? From what I have seen tourist areas seem to be the worst for just taking stuff. Ever find any caches around a campground? I never saw any good trade items in them.

What campgrounds, where? Lots of assumptions you are making......

That is not an assumption it is an observation of the caches I have done around campgrounds. Also I used the phrase seems to be that way.

[+Matt_B_Good]

Wisconsin has swamps...?

 

I feel the need to admit that I recently took swag and didn't realize that I failed to swap until I got home. Forgive me Signal, for I have sinned.

 

In restitution I plan to plant two nice puzzle caches full of nice swag before the end of the month.

 

Have you never been to Wisconsin? There are many swamps in Wisconsin. Nothing huge like the everglades and the cold winters keeps the alligators away. Still plenty of frogs in spring though. Forgetting to swap is a little different than intentionally just taking stuff like some seem to. I wonder if it is always people that are registered users of the site that just take stuff? From what I have seen tourist areas seem to be the worst for just taking stuff. Ever find any caches around a campground? I never saw any good trade items in them.

 

How do you know that it's intentional?

I guess I can't KNOW for a 100% certainty but it is quite likely the case.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Haven't seen enough data to come anywhere close to that conclusion.

[+Matt_B_Good]

Haven't seen enough data to come anywhere close to that conclusion.

I didn't have that conclusion when I had only 28 finds either. Keep in mind though I was simply making observations from the caches I have found and hidden. I am stating my perception not what is always the case but what tends to be in my finds and hides.

 

You can't take everything stated on a forum the way you perceive the statement after all it is a mediated form of communication, not everything comes across the way it is intended. Even in direct communication it doesn't always come across as intended so don't expect it to in a forum.

[GOF and Bacall]

Haven't seen enough data to come anywhere close to that conclusion.

I didn't have that conclusion when I had only 28 finds either. Keep in mind though I was simply making observations from the caches I have found and hidden. I am stating my perception not what is always the case but what tends to be in my finds and hides.

 

You can't take everything stated on a forum the way you perceive the statement after all it is a mediated form of communication, not everything comes across the way it is intended. Even in direct communication it doesn't always come across as intended so don't expect it to in a forum.

 

I seriously suggest that you rethink judging people by the find count in their profile. You'll find that Motorcycle Mama has way more experience with geocaching than you give her credit for.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Haven't seen enough data to come anywhere close to that conclusion.

I didn't have that conclusion when I had only 28 finds either. Keep in mind though I was simply making observations from the caches I have found and hidden. I am stating my perception not what is always the case but what tends to be in my finds and hides.

 

You can't take everything stated on a forum the way you perceive the statement after all it is a mediated form of communication, not everything comes across the way it is intended. Even in direct communication it doesn't always come across as intended so don't expect it to in a forum.

Again, you are making assumptions unfortunately.

 

Plus, what I meant was that I haven't seen you post enough evidence in this thread to come anywhere close to the conclusion that people are "intentionally taking stuff".

Edited October 6, 2009 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+tozainamboku]

Plus, what I meant was that I haven't seen you post enough evidence in this thread to come anywhere close to the conclusion that people are "intentionally taking stuff".

 

I don't know what else you could call it. Someone takes something of obvious value and leaves nothing or some obvious junk. I would say they are "intentionally taking stuff". Of course you may have someone who just isn't very adept at appraising the value of things they find in a cache. So maybe they thought they were trading fairly. Or more likely, as has been pointed out, a parent tells the child to take one thing and then to leave something of similar value in the cache. The child takes the packaged matchbox car and leaves a quarter, because the child believes this is a fair trade. If the parent says no and the child has nothing beside the quarter to trade, the parent knows they will get a cranky child. So the allow the trade to take place and perhaps say that they will put something of greater value in another cache to make up for it. Unfortunately, Matt_B_Good expects that first, we are all expert appraisers and secondly, we are honest about our trading every time. Human nature is such that one can expect people to see something they really want and will trade what they have for it but that this might not satisfy someone else. There is no one standing guard at each cache who can police fair trading. One would hope that most people would understand that if you don;t trade fairly every cache will wind up with junk.

 

This whole discussion reminds tozainamboku of visits to the pachinko parlor in Japan. Now gambling is illegal so what you do at a pachinko parlor is trade in the balls you have collected for various toys and souvenirs (much like at a carnival game). They have a few nice things like the typical large stuffed animals at a carnival or sometime Japanese candy. But usually you trade the balls for what appears to be some worthless junk. At the pachinko places I went to this was usually flints for cigarette lighters. They give you a piece of paper with a map on it. I'd look at the map (which was in Japanese) and try to figure out where I was supposed to go. It was kind of like finding a geocache, but I didn't know it at the time. There you would turn in the flints and they would hand you far more yen then these things could've been worth. When I find junk in cache now, I keep looking for the map for where I can cash in my winnings.