Have You Ever Logged a Fake SBA? Would You? Why?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Folks, this thread is inspired by the concurrent thread started by Crab Soul, wherein we discovered that someone had filed a fraudulent (aka fake) SBA on his newly-placed cache in Louisiana within a short time after it had been emplaced. Now, we have all heard of fake or fraudulent find logs, and there have been a multitude of threads devoted to them, and we have even heard of, and discussed, fake DNF logs, but today, my questions for you are as follows:

 

Have you ever logged a fake SBA on a cache?

 

If so, why did you do so?

 

Would you ever log a fake SBA on a cache, and if so, what circumstances would lead you to do so?

 

Thanks in advance for your contributions to the thread! Please note that this is not a thread devoted to sharing tales of having been the recipient of fake SBA logs, and so, if you have any such tales to tell, please keep them limited to a maximum length of just two or three sentences, so as not to turn this thread into a whine-fest. Thank you.

 

Late edit to add note that "SBA" stands for a "Should Be Archived" log filed on a cache by another cacher.

 

.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+mtn-man]

Actually, the log you are talking about was not a fake one. That person feels the cache should be archived. I've exchanged several emails with them regarding that cache.

 

Just a point of clarification.

[+Too Tall John]

What mtn-man said. In this post, he seems to be suggesting that the neighborhood may be pretty rough. IMO, not a reason to archive, but that does not mean the originator of the SBA doesn't truly believe the cache should be archived.

 

I am curious about your definition of a "Fake" SBA log. Can you clarify?

 

There are a few reasons I can think of to post a Fake SBA log:

• To be a jerk.
  
• To poke fun at a fellow cacher that you know. (Different than the "Jerk" option because it might be an inside joke that the CO would actually appreciate... )
  
• An SBA could be incorporated into a puzzle cache somehow. I've seen puzzles where you have to find a certain cacher's log on a certain other cache to get coordinates. Why limit such puzzles to Found logs or notes?
  
• Accidental logging of the wrong cache. Actually, this would be less of a fake and more of a mistake.
  

That being said, I have never done any of these things, my only SBA log is on a cache that was in desperate need of serious attention and the CO was gone (banned!).

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Actually, the log you are talking about was not a fake one. That person feels the cache should be archived. I've exchanged several emails with them regarding that cache.

 

Just a point of clarification.

Thanks for your note, but.... WOW! Unless there are some factors here that I am totally missing, I would maintain that the level of delusion/confusion on the part of the SBA logger, along with their action, would, at least to me, constitute a fraudulent SBA log. There is always room for genuine disagreement when it comes to filing SBAs on some caches, but this one appears to be just too cut-and-dried -- particularly in light of the contents of the actual SBA log and the subsequent log note left by the logger -- to be much other than a fraudulent SBA log.

 

[Note added in late edit] Much as I indicated on the original thread by Crab Soul, the most that would be warranted on this cache, if the SBA logger had REALLY and TRULY felt that the cache was rather "dangerous", would be to send a private note to the cache owner suggesting that they raise the Terrain rating (or perhaps both the Difficulty and Terrain rating), or even to post a brief log note to that effect on the cache listing page, listing the reasons behind the request. Filing an SBA instead of such a note is akin to using a nuclear warhead to kill a few ants that have infiltrated the kitchen, and, to me, just as inappropriate.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Rockin Roddy]

Actually, the log you are talking about was not a fake one. That person feels the cache should be archived. I've exchanged several emails with them regarding that cache.

 

Just a point of clarification.

Thanks for your note, but.... WOW! Unless there are some factors here that I am totally missing, I would maintain that the level of delusion/confusion on the part of the SBA logger, along with their action, would, at least to me, constitute a fraudulent SBA log. There is always room for genuine disagreement when it comes to filing SBAs on some caches, but this one appears to be just too cut-and-dried -- particularly in light of the contents of the actual SBA log and the subsequent log note left by the logger -- to be much other than a fraudulent SBA log.

 

I would have to agree. Either there's a LOT more to this than we've seen or that SBA log was a bit of an overreaction. Perceiving an area dangerous (as in from other people as this SBA seems to suggest) is in no way a reason to archive. I have been to places where I was too scared to get out and look, but the owner was able to place it, many people have been able to find it. We once made a hurried retreat to our Jeep and on out of the area once when we felt threatened by the group (I would say gang really) that was coming towards us...and there was three of us.

 

If you feel concerned, email the owner, leave a note, but logging an SBA??

 

To stay on the topic, I have never, no intention to ever and have not ever even thought of a time to log a fake SBA!!

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

uummmmmm...... SBA??????

[+Sioneva]

Point of evidence: Fake SBA

[+Rockin Roddy]

uummmmmm...... SBA??????

 

Should Be Archived.

[+CYBret]

I stopped short of a fake SBA once...just because I didn't want to involve the local reviewer on the joke.

 

A good caching friend hid a cache a block away from my home with the intention of enticing me out for a FTF. Well, it worked. It was a cache on a utility pole. I found it quickly but as I was retrieving it a bird crapped on my head.

 

That's right....a bird....crapped...on my head.

 

So, I put the cache back and posted a "Needs Maintenance" log. I refused to return to the cache until he could assure me that all the birds had been removed.

 

I returned about five months later, in the middle of the night and during a snowstorm just to be on the safe side.

 

Tricky

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

uummmmmm...... SBA??????

 

Should Be Archived.

 

Thanks!!! had figured that out after reading all other related threads and cache page in question. LOL

[+Too Tall John]

Point of evidence: Fake SBA

Hey, that's a note...

I stopped short of a fake SBA once...just because I didn't want to involve the local reviewer on the joke.

 

A good caching friend hid a cache a block away from my home with the intention of enticing me out for a FTF. Well, it worked. It was a cache on a utility pole. I found it quickly but as I was retrieving it a bird crapped on my head.

 

That's right....a bird....crapped...on my head.

 

So, I put the cache back and posted a "Needs Maintenance" log. I refused to return to the cache until he could assure me that all the birds had been removed.

 

I returned about five months later, in the middle of the night and during a snowstorm just to be on the safe side.

 

Tricky

A fun story, enjoyed the pictures.

 

So, are there any real "Fake SBAs" out there?

[+mtn-man]

Either there's a LOT more to this than we've seen or that SBA log was a bit of an overreaction.

Maybe it was an overreaction, but it wasn't fake.

[+tozainamboku]

The SBA log is special in that it is the only log sends a notification to the reviewer. (Not sure if the Change coordinates does this too, but if so only the cache owner can post a Change Coordinates). I have seen sometimes where the SBA is used as a way to contact the reviewer for some other reason than a should be archived.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Point of evidence: Fake SBA

Sioneva, you are so TRULY EVIL that it is despicable, despicable, I tell you! You are so evil that you probably have a PhD in horribleness!

[+team moxiepup]

Point of evidence: Fake SBA

Sioneva, you are so TRULY EVIL that it is despicable, despicable, I tell you! You are so evil that you probably have a PhD in horribleness!

 

[+StarBrand]

Either there's a LOT more to this than we've seen or that SBA log was a bit of an overreaction.

Maybe it was an overreaction, but it wasn't fake.

Agreed - I have had at least 2 SBA (or NA {Needs Archived}) logs placed on my caches over the years.

 

One was for a cache location the guy thought was too "off trail".

 

Another was for a cache in an area that was temporarily closed to the public.

 

Both invalid reasons for an archive but the loggers were quite sincere and truely believed the caches should be archived.

 

I have logged an SBA on a cache that I thought violated the guidelines but at least 2 of the reviewers disagreed and it stayed in place. I assure you, it was not a fake SBA request.

[+Renegade Knight]

Logged one? Nope. Been on the receiving end? Yup. That cacher account was quicly banned for logging mischief.

[+Sioneva]

Logged one? Nope. Been on the receiving end? Yup. That cacher account was quicly banned for logging mischief.

 

Err.... Um....

 

[+markandsandy]

Point of evidence: Fake SBA

Sioneva, you are so TRULY EVIL that it is despicable, despicable, I tell you! You are so evil that you probably have a PhD in horribleness!

Sioneva:

Thank you for doing the needful. You beat me to it, It's almost as if...

Oh never mind.

[+pigpen4x4]

No I haven't posted a "fake" SBA, I have only posted one SBA and it was legit.

 

What I know of this situation is only what I have read here.

I would not have SBA'd the cache in question, but I would not have contacted the owner either based on some of his posts on these forums.

I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out people sometimes take things very personally, and I just try to avoid people like that.

PP

[+remo713]

How about this example? While planning a caching route recently, I found a cache that is buried. Actually, literally buried. Some logs state that people found the cache by sticking metal objects in the ground to locate the cache and other references to the depth it was buried at changing. I haven't actually been to the site to find the cache yet, but this is obviously a cache in violation of the rules. So do i wait, give it a shot at a find, then SBA it, or just "fake" SBA it now, having full proof from previous cachers that the cache is buried in a dirt pile?

[+Rockin Roddy]

How about this example? While planning a caching route recently, I found a cache that is buried. Actually, literally buried. Some logs state that people found the cache by sticking metal objects in the ground to locate the cache and other references to the depth it was buried at changing. I haven't actually been to the site to find the cache yet, but this is obviously a cache in violation of the rules. So do i wait, give it a shot at a find, then SBA it, or just "fake" SBA it now, having full proof from previous cachers that the cache is buried in a dirt pile?

 

Is it?? How obvious?? Maybe you should read the guidelines again before jumping to conclusions!! As for loggin the SBA, go for it, see what you learn!!

Edited March 19, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+beejay&esskay]

I haven't actually been to the site to find the cache yet, but this is obviously a cache in violation of the rules. So do i wait, give it a shot at a find, then SBA it, or just "fake" SBA it now, having full proof from previous cachers that the cache is buried in a dirt pile?

 

Contact the local reviewer directly with your concerns. That way you don't have to learn the lessons that Rockin Roddy is suggesting.

 

I would never log a fake SBA...but evidently there is some question about what "fake" means.

 

If I think a cache should be archived, it is not "fake".

 

I actually don't log SBA's (as far as I can recall) unless there have been ignored maintenance requests.

 

[Oops. Just thought of one. When I was confronted by the property owner who told me he didn't want caches on his property.]

Edited March 19, 2009 by beejay&esskay

[+Rockin Roddy]

OK, I'll expand that thought...how do you know the cache was buried against guidelines? Do you know for certain a "pointy object" was used to "bury" it?

 

A cache can (and has been) buried in sand, in dirt piles etc, where there isn't a need to use a shovel or other "pointy object" to place the cache (or find it for that matter). I've used pine needles and such to "bury" a cache, I have one in play right now! The guidelines don't say you can't use natural camo to cover your cache, you just can't actually dig a hole with a "pointy object".

 

But, you'd have learned this had you carried through with your desire to post an SBA!!

Edited March 19, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+remo713]

OK, I'll expand that thought...how do you know the cache was buried against guidelines? Do you know for certain a "pointy object" was used to "bury" it?

 

A cache can (and has been) buried in sand, in dirt piles etc, where there isn't a need to use a shovel or other "pointy object" to place the cache (or find it for that matter). I've used pine needles and such to "bury" a cache, I have one in play right now! The guidelines don't say you can't use natural camo to cover your cache, you just can't actually dig a hole with a "pointy object".

 

But, you'd have learned this had you carried through with your desire to post an SBA!!

 

Ok, I am going to attempt to be somewhat calmer than the original response posted to my inquiry. First, make the call for yourself if this cache is outside the guidelines:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...4f-bd710559a492

 

I was under the impression, albeit possibly mistakenly that going so far as to physically bury a cache so deeply that one would suggest using a metal detector to locate it and finders having to use shovels to locate the cache was not kosher. As the cache has been around since 2002, that might be a misunderstanding on my part, which is why I asked the question in the first place. My fault for not providing a better example of what I was talking about, but still no real reason to escalate the discussion in such a fashion, is it?

 

Using natural camoflauge is part of the game, that is obvious to anyone who has ever looked for a cache. I was simply looking to clarify what I thought was an improper hide.

 

There is one thing I have learned in my brief exposure to Geocaching, and that is the forums definitely seem to suck the fun out of this hobby.

[+Too Tall John]

But, you'd have learned this had you carried through with your desire to post an SBA!!

... or you'd have done the caching community a favor by getting a buried cache removed before a landowner/manager found it.

 

I have to agree that the local reviewer might have more info on the cache, and should be contacted directly before posting a SBA, but RR, assuming your scenario is correct is a big assumption, and we all know what happens when we assume...

[Motorcycle_Mama]

...

Ok, I am going to attempt to be somewhat calmer than the original response posted to my inquiry. First, make the call for yourself if this cache is outside the guidelines:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...4f-bd710559a492

 

I was under the impression, albeit possibly mistakenly that going so far as to physically bury a cache so deeply that one would suggest using a metal detector to locate it and finders having to use shovels to locate the cache was not kosher. As the cache has been around since 2002, that might be a misunderstanding on my part, which is why I asked the question in the first place. My fault for not providing a better example of what I was talking about, but still no real reason to escalate the discussion in such a fashion, is it?

 

Using natural camoflauge is part of the game, that is obvious to anyone who has ever looked for a cache. I was simply looking to clarify what I thought was an improper hide.

 

There is one thing I have learned in my brief exposure to Geocaching, and that is the forums definitely seem to suck the fun out of this hobby.

 

The guidelines have been clarified since that cache was hidden. It was possibly grandfathered.

[+remo713]

...

Ok, I am going to attempt to be somewhat calmer than the original response posted to my inquiry. First, make the call for yourself if this cache is outside the guidelines:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...4f-bd710559a492

 

I was under the impression, albeit possibly mistakenly that going so far as to physically bury a cache so deeply that one would suggest using a metal detector to locate it and finders having to use shovels to locate the cache was not kosher. As the cache has been around since 2002, that might be a misunderstanding on my part, which is why I asked the question in the first place. My fault for not providing a better example of what I was talking about, but still no real reason to escalate the discussion in such a fashion, is it?

 

Using natural camoflauge is part of the game, that is obvious to anyone who has ever looked for a cache. I was simply looking to clarify what I thought was an improper hide.

 

There is one thing I have learned in my brief exposure to Geocaching, and that is the forums definitely seem to suck the fun out of this hobby.

 

The guidelines have been clarified since that cache was hidden. It was possibly grandfathered.

 

Thank you! That makes sense in terms of reconciling an old cache with what I thought was an unacceptable practice.

[+beejay&esskay]

I have to agree that the local reviewer might have more info on the cache, and should be contacted directly before posting a SBA, but RR, assuming your scenario is correct is a big assumption, and we all know what happens when we assume...

 

 

Someone suggesting archiving it May 2005. Since no action was taken, this must pass local reviewer approval.

 

It is buried in sand, so sharp objects not necessarily required to uncover.

Edited March 19, 2009 by beejay&esskay

[4wheelin_fool]

 

Have you ever logged a fake SBA on a cache?

 

If so, why did you do so?

 

Would you ever log a fake SBA on a cache, and if so, what circumstances would lead you to do so?

 

 

I posted a real SBA on a cache that wasnt even near me after someone posted that they forced their kid to retrieve the cache by scuba diving in septic tainted water.

 

After the CO e-mailed me that it was a liar's cache, I vowed never to post another SBA on a cache that I never visited. (and to read the cache page more closely) And then after more thought, I vowed never to post another SBA again, and just to e-mail the reviewer about concerns instead.

 

After more thought, I decided to insist (to anyone that asked), that the SBA was really a fake one...

[+Too Tall John]

I have to agree that the local reviewer might have more info on the cache, and should be contacted directly before posting a SBA, but RR, assuming your scenario is correct is a big assumption, and we all know what happens when we assume...

Someone suggesting archiving it May 2005. Since no action was taken, this must pass local reviewer approval.

 

It is buried in sand, so sharp objects not necessarily required to uncover.

I started the post you are responding to probably about the same time remo713 was posting the details on the cache. Without those details, it is an assumption I'd be unwilling to make.

 

Thanks to remo713 for clarifying.