Thinking about hiding a creative puzzle

[greenworldfeather]

Hey, I am going to be hiding a creative puzzle and I need some advice on what to do with it. I am going to be hiding a rubik's cube where the cachers have to solve it and then go to a max. of six waypoints to get the code to unlock a box holding the container at the final location. There will be numbers written on each side of cube, only they will be mixed up. The cube itself will also be mixed up when they find it to increase the difficulty. The numbers will be parts of WP's, and there will be stuff to help them solve that part so they have six different WP's that they can visit. Only one will have a container that has the code to unlock it. TO increase the difficulty of someone finding the container by accident, it will not have coord's to the final location. All stages will be listed on the cache page. Any advice on what to do and how to go about it is appreciated. Who knows, maybe someone will find some useful information to use when they want to hide something like this. Thanks, and have a great day! gwf

[+TexasGringo]

<The cube itself will also be mixed up when they find it to increase the difficulty>

 

I'm so mixed up just reading the puzzle idea...

[+fizzymagic]

I love puzzle caches. I do a lot of them. I would not be interested in the one above, because the explanation makes no sense.

 

Good puzzles are conceptually simple; they may be difficult to solve, but a well-done puzzle has a unity of theme and purpose that is understandable.

 

Complexity does not equal creativity. I like puzzles where the correct solution moves you toward the find. Having six random coordinates to go to where only one is useful does not sound like fun to me.

 

Just my thoughts...

[+TrailGators]

I'm not sure I understand the puzzle either. The way I read it when someone solves a Rubiks cube they will have six sets of coords (one for each side) if which only one is correct. I don't think you'd have to solve the cube to figure these out. Also having to go to six different places is annoying. My bet is that it won't be long until the PAF grapevine tells everyone what color has the right coords...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I'm not sure I understand the puzzle either. The way I read it when someone solves a Rubiks cube they will have six sets of coords (one for each side) if which only one is correct. I don't think you'd have to solve the cube to figure these out. Also having to go to six different places is annoying. My bet is that it won't be long until the PAF grapevine tells everyone what color has the right coords...

 

Not everyone. Geocachers traveling through the area would just ignore it entirely.

Edited March 10, 2009 by NYPaddleCacher

[+va griz]

Is this about right?

 

You will have six sets of cords on the cache page. Also hidden is a Rubiks cube that will need to be solved to either tell which of the six is correct or to unlock the actual cache.

 

If that's correct I think a lot of folks would ignore it for the simple reason that it isn't easy to solve a rubiks cube. I might be willing to search six different local places if I knew it was findable once I got there. But not if I couldn't tell if it wasn't there and not if it was locked.

[greenworldfeather]

Is this about right?

 

You will have six sets of cords on the cache page. Also hidden is a Rubiks cube that will need to be solved to either tell which of the six is correct or to unlock the actual cache.

 

If that's correct I think a lot of folks would ignore it for the simple reason that it isn't easy to solve a rubiks cube. I might be willing to search six different local places if I knew it was findable once I got there. But not if I couldn't tell if it wasn't there and not if it was locked.

 

Here is what will happen: The cache is going to be called sometning like "Choose your own adventure with a 3D puzzle". The first stage will hold a couple Rubik's cubes. You get one cube per group, if there is a group that is doing it. If only one or two people are doing it, you still only get one cube. It will be mixed up, while almost every square will have a number on it. You have to solve the cube first. Then you will have the numbers which you will have to put in the right places in the next part. Here is an example.

 

N 40* _8._ _1 W _ _ _* 20._3_

 

It will be different for each side. You will have set of numbers that you will have to put in the spaces which I will tell you. Now here comes the fun and thankfully less challenging part. You will then have six different sets of coord's to choose from. It is here that I have to mention that there will be a container inside the first one that will be either strongly glued or welded to the inside side of the first stage. It will have a flap that will come up to reveal the final cache container. It will have a lot of stuff inside for the finders so they don't feel cheated of a good prize. It will have a strong combo lock on it to prevent people from just going and taking whatever they want, whenever they want, especially before doing the puzzle.

 

Anyway, like I said, you will have six different sets of coord's to choose from. Only one set of coord's will have a small container that is properly fastened to something. The container will have the code for the lock in it. Now, every so often, I will change the code for the lock and possibly the right set of coord's to disgourage people from just telling other people what it is all the time. Another possiblity is that I have the container nearby, say within a couple hundred feet, and the container also has the coord's for the container in it. I can also move the final container every so often to keep certain things from getting out to everybody and to prevent muggling of the cache containers and the cubes. The container will either be up in a tree blending in well or under a large stone or something. Also, I can have people e-mail and put pon the log exactly when they take the cubes and when they return them so they do not get stolen. There will only be a maximum of three cubes in the cache. Also, if people have trouble, there will be a website on the cache page that they can go to for help. All in all, a cache with a difficulty rating of at least a 3 star; terrain about a 2-3 star. If you have anything that I should add, or anything, feel free to post a reply or something. Thanks, and have a great nice day. gwf

[+9Key]

I suggest contacting Mustang Joni and have her explain her 3D puzzle cache to you >>

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7d-4dc853bb1c81

Her's works really well and is easy to understand.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Is this about right?

 

You will have six sets of cords on the cache page. Also hidden is a Rubiks cube that will need to be solved to either tell which of the six is correct or to unlock the actual cache.

 

If that's correct I think a lot of folks would ignore it for the simple reason that it isn't easy to solve a rubiks cube. I might be willing to search six different local places if I knew it was findable once I got there. But not if I couldn't tell if it wasn't there and not if it was locked.

 

Here is what will happen: The cache is going to be called sometning like "Choose your own adventure with a 3D puzzle". The first stage will hold a couple Rubik's cubes. You get one cube per group, if there is a group that is doing it. If only one or two people are doing it, you still only get one cube. It will be mixed up, while almost every square will have a number on it. You have to solve the cube first. Then you will have the numbers which you will have to put in the right places in the next part. Here is an example.

 

Anyway, like I said, you will have six different sets of coord's to choose from. Only one set of coord's will have a small container that is properly fastened to something. The container will have the code for the lock in it.

 

This sounds unnecessarily confusing. I don't mind doing difficult puzzles for caches but the difficulty should not be because it's hard to understand.

 

From the last sentence above it sounds like once you've solved the rubiks cube there are six possible locations where one could go to find the next "stage".

 

There is a multi-cache near me that has two sets of coordinates in the first stage, only one of which is the final stage. I found the first stage about a year and a half ago, finally got to one of the coordinates from the from the first stage and guess wrong, and still haven't made it back to the other coordinate to look for the final stage.

 

Since I found the first stage a couple of years ago there have only been 2 or 3 people to complete the cache. You can probably get how often yours will get found with six sets of coordinates.

[JJFood]

Is this about right?

 

You will have six sets of cords on the cache page. Also hidden is a Rubiks cube that will need to be solved to either tell which of the six is correct or to unlock the actual cache.

 

If that's correct I think a lot of folks would ignore it for the simple reason that it isn't easy to solve a rubiks cube. I might be willing to search six different local places if I knew it was findable once I got there. But not if I couldn't tell if it wasn't there and not if it was locked.

 

Here is what will happen: The cache is going to be called sometning like "Choose your own adventure with a 3D puzzle". The first stage will hold a couple Rubik's cubes. You get one cube per group, if there is a group that is doing it. If only one or two people are doing it, you still only get one cube. It will be mixed up, while almost every square will have a number on it. You have to solve the cube first. Then you will have the numbers which you will have to put in the right places in the next part. Here is an example.

 

Anyway, like I said, you will have six different sets of coord's to choose from. Only one set of coord's will have a small container that is properly fastened to something. The container will have the code for the lock in it.

 

This sounds unnecessarily confusing. I don't mind doing difficult puzzles for caches but the difficulty should not be because it's hard to understand.

 

From the last sentence above it sounds like once you've solved the rubiks cube there are six possible locations where one could go to find the next "stage".

 

There is a multi-cache near me that has two sets of coordinates in the first stage, only one of which is the final stage. I found the first stage about a year and a half ago, finally got to one of the coordinates from the from the first stage and guess wrong, and still haven't made it back to the other coordinate to look for the final stage.

 

Since I found the first stage a couple of years ago there have only been 2 or 3 people to complete the cache. You can probably get how often yours will get found with six sets of coordinates.

 

 

Okay now that is confusing I think you should go for it! Just not in san antonio *winkwink*

[+cantuland]

How about making sure that they receive a just reward regardless of which "one of six" that they start with. If they pick the correct one, they go straight to the final and finish there. If they choose a wrong one, then their second stage tells them either latitude or longitude of the final and instructions to go back and find another. Then they feel like they are getting somewhere, just not there yet. Otherwise, they feel like it was a waste of their time struggling for a smiley. When they go back, they choose another one and either get the right one or they get more of the coordinates to the final.

 

But you have lots of coordinates from the six sides. How about this?

Stage "A": rubix cube with coordinates to six waypoints.

Stage "B1": degrees North for the final

Stage "B2": whole minutes North for the final

Stage "B3": decimal minutes North for the final

Stage "B4": degrees West for final

Stage "B5": whole minutes West for final

Stage "B6": decimal minutes West for final

Stage "C": geocache at the final after putting together the coordinates that were gathered at each of the six "B" stages.

 

This gives them a reward at the end and a reason to feel like they SHOULD visit all six places. Let them know right off that this is what they will be doing and people will know what the goal is from the get-go. Only those who would enjoy the hunt would pursue the hunt and not feel ripped off at the end.

 

Make backup copies of that rubix cube because people are going to steal it a few times.

 

-cantuland

[+cantuland]

You could even post in the description that if they can't find a rubix cube at the posted coordinates, then they could also go to the following list of three or four waypoints where they can find a duplicate rubix cube to use instead of the one at the posted coordinates...or maybe they could use any one of SIX rubix cubes because they're all the same. And each one of those six will give them six waypoints for mid-stages. Put the final in a container that looks like a rubix cube since you said something about welding. The final container doesn't have moving parts other than a lid to open like a regular box.

[+entogeek]

This whole cache sounds very complicated even after having read the explanation more than once. Furthermore, it is all predicated on solving a Rubik's cube. How many cachers are: a) capable of solving one, capable of solving one in a reasonable period of time, c) going to be mighty PO'ed when they find out that they could visit 6 stages before finding the final? If you proceed with this cache, then the rating definately needs to be 4+ or higher and I suspect it will go on many an Ignore list. For me as a cache owner, I personally enjoy reading the numerous logs from fellow cachers who solve my puzzles - puzzles which can be solved in the convenience of their own home. I don't think you'll find many Found It logs being written for this particular cache. But to each their own.

[+niraD]

I've found a couple puzzle caches that included multiple puzzle solutions, only one of which gave the correct coordinates. While it was possible to search the coordinates from all the puzzle solutions, it was also possible to figure out which was the correct solution with a little more thought. Providing 6 sets of coordinates with no way to determine which is correct seems like yet another "needle in a haystack".

 

If that's correct I think a lot of folks would ignore it for the simple reason that it isn't easy to solve a rubiks cube.

Actually, it isn't that hard to solve Rubik's cube if you're willing to take it apart and put it back together. I'd be concerned that the cubes would become worn from people solving them this way, that the colored labels would fall off as moisture entered the container, or that some people would leave the solved cube in the cache (rather than scrambling it first).

[+scrabbles]

Solving a Rubik's cube is not all the hard, You Tube has clips that show you the logarithms you need to do it. That said it's my kids (12 and 14) who can solve them, not me it took them about 2 days to learn. I will hire them out for the price of the plane tickets to come to where you need it solved. Just give us a day or two to cache while we're there!

[+syfun]

Well, nobody would have to solve the entire cube. You could solve for each side and write down your results as you go. Or you could note where each piece of the cube belongs and fill in the grids accordingly. You wouldn't even need to twist any pieced this way.

 

Or someone could tear it apart and put it back together or not. You may find a busted up cube on one of your maintenance runs.

 

As for the rest of it, I don't like a multi with a lot of dead ends. If there is a container there that will tell me it's a dead end, then that's different. At least it would tell me I'm done looking in that location.

 

I would say hide it. Keep an open mind and maybe modify it if you don't get the finds and/or logs you are looking for. Some people are gonna love it, some are gonna ignore it.

 

Steve

[+Star*Hopper]

... Here is an example.

 

N 40* _8._ _1 W _ _ _* 20._3_

 

It will be different for each side. You will have set of numbers that you will have to put in the spaces ...

 

Well I'll say this.....you've certainly "creatived" me right outta ever trying it.

Besides, I suck royal at Rubik's....and have less-than zero inclination to learn how.

 

I'll also note, in your example above you have 8 blanks....and every cube I ever saw has 6 sides.

~*

[+NYPaddleCacher]

... Here is an example.

 

N 40* _8._ _1 W _ _ _* 20._3_

 

It will be different for each side. You will have set of numbers that you will have to put in the spaces ...

 

Well I'll say this.....you've certainly "creatived" me right outta ever trying it.

Besides, I suck royal at Rubik's....and have less-than zero inclination to learn how.

 

I'll also note, in your example above you have 8 blanks....and every cube I ever saw has 6 sides.

~*

 

Four of those numbers are pretty much gimmes though. The first, fourth, fifth, and sixth numbers are almost certainly the same as the published coordinates.

[greenworldfeather]

Well I'll say this.....you've certainly "creatived" me right outta ever trying it.

Besides, I suck royal at Rubik's....and have less-than zero inclination to learn how.

 

I'll also note, in your example above you have 8 blanks....and every cube I ever saw has 6 sides.

~*

 

But in case you have forgotten, a regular 3x3x3 rubik's cube has 9 same-colored squares on each side. It is variable depending on which one you have, but I will be using a 3x3x3 rubik's cube. Also, I will probably put in the cache description that they willneed to send me a pic with e cube solved. I will also include a big fat warning to not try to take it apart becvause it might break. Is it legal to say if they break it because they were rough or because they tried to take it apart that they will need to pay for a new one? I will also be putting the rubik's website on there so if they really need help they can go there. How's that? I hope I have explained some of the pros and cons that will need to happen with this so everybody could have fun. Thanks, and have a great day. gwf

[greenworldfeather]

I am now thinking about just using inexpensive, wooden 3-D puzzles. They are only about the size of a rubik's cube, but some of them can be really hard to do. They are not hard unless you take into account the fact that sometimes you have to hold it a certain way while you are putting it together so it doesn't fall apart. Anyway, thanks. Have a great day. gwf

[greenworldfeather]

I am now thinking about just using inexpensive, wooden 3-D puzzles. They are only about the size of a rubik's cube, but some of them can be really hard to do. They are not hard unless you take into account the fact that sometimes you have to hold it a certain way while you are putting it together so it doesn't fall apart. Anyway, thanks. Have a great day. gwf

[+mrbort]

I would say that you shouldn't worry about turning people off with a difficulty level as long as you're willing to accept that the cache might not be a very frequent find. You should worry about the following:

 

1) The puzzle needs to be clearly articulated so that people don't hit a wall of text and fall down; you want people to be intrigued by the puzzle, not confused by the language.

2) The various stages need to be compelling... the idea about having people visit the places to get the various digits is a good one.

3) If you're going to use a rubix cube, you need to think about the fact that just by looking at any piece, you can puzzle together where it would go in the final puzzle. You don't actually need to physically solve the puzzle to do that.

4) Again if you use a Rubix cube, you could even post photos of a messed up rubix cube in a photo (where this might be an example of a solved one... just do the same with an unsolved one with the proper colored boxes and numbers filled in for each side) so that people could dig into their kids' toy chests and solve it (and learn how) from their home. You could post it in a printable form like this. Might be even better than leaving a bunch of rubix cubes locked in an initial cache location.

5) Just try it out. If the puzzle turns out to stink, you'll have learned something.

 

I'm all for creative puzzle caches. I think it adds a fun twist to the game.

 

Good luck