Micromorphisis

[+chrisandjanet]

So I and a caching buddy were shooting the breeze one day when the topic of lame micros came up (PREMPTIVE NOTE: I know that what one cacher considers lame might be anther's favorite, so let's not go down that road!). Specificaly we were talking about micros in an area where a full sized cache could have been placed. She came up with the idea of placing a full sized cache nearby, and planting the cords for it in the micro. Finders would'nt get an extra smilie, but they would get a chance at a larger cache.

 

We kind of laughed about it and moved on, but the idea stuck in the back of my mind - imagine the micro owner's puzzlement when logs like "Took nothing, left (some large swag item)."

 

Anybody heard of something like this?

[+WatchDog2020]

I've seen (and have done) Multi's like this.

 

I also have a cache that is the reverse of the idea and is only one stage. A small concealing a large ammo box – Yup, defied the laws of physics.

 

Edit: I didn't read it correclty. I thought you would plant both. I agree, it is wrong to leave your coords. in someones elses cache.

Edited September 12, 2008 by WatchDog2020

[+briansnat]

I've logged micros where I mentioned taking and leaving something large as a joke.

 

But I don't think it's right to use someone's cache as a part of yours without the owner's permission

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

So I and a caching buddy were shooting the breeze one day when the topic of lame micros came up (PREMPTIVE NOTE: I know that what one cacher considers lame might be anther's favorite, so let's not go down that road!). Specificaly we were talking about micros in an area where a full sized cache could have been placed. She came up with the idea of placing a full sized cache nearby, and planting the cords for it in the micro. Finders would'nt get an extra smilie, but they would get a chance at a larger cache.

 

We kind of laughed about it and moved on, but the idea stuck in the back of my mind - imagine the micro owner's puzzlement when logs like "Took nothing, left (some large swag item)."

 

Anybody heard of something like this?

 

That sounds like a normal multi. Usually multis with a regular-sized cache at the final stage will advertise this fact to attract geocachers who might normally skip micros.

 

- Elle

 

EDIT... because I misread that you were using someone else's micro for your regular-size cache. I don't explicitly have a problem with this since I think it's a shout-out to old-fashioned Letterboxing. Some letterboxes I wouldn't even know about if it weren't for other Letterboxes. Through AtlasQuest, Letterboxing is becoming more organised and countable but its nature and roots are very rustic and uncounted. Your stamp book is your "find count" and that's it. Anyway, it strikes me like that but I don't think the majority body of Geocachers are going to approve of those shenanigans. I think they'd rather have the multi.

Edited September 12, 2008 by HauntHunters

[Mushtang]

If you're talking about changing someone else's cache into a completely different experience without even asking them, I'd say that would be pretty rude. To me that's just as bad as tying a ribbon on a tree near a cache so that people can have an easier time finding it since you thought it was too hard.

 

Perhaps if you feel there are not enough non-micros you should just hide a new non-micro cache instead of changing someone else's.

[+Star*Hopper]

Playin' the devil's advocate here....but what's so wrong about TNLS? Took Nothing.....Left Something -- the 'something' being a set of coordinates to a cache with nice stuff. Is there a guideline saying you can't leave something in a micro? Even when there's nothing to take or trade - which describes most micros?

 

What's the harm? And why would the OC's owner mind? He still gets all the finds he would've otherwise had; with (hopefully) the logs....and maybe even, more traffic to his cache than otherwise.

 

I kinda like the notion. Especially when it'd keep a lame 35-can'r from hogging up a nice site that deserves better. Kinda equates with helpin' out a fellow cacher by replacing a full/wet-mushed/torn log sheet, I'd say - & I don't know any CO that minds that!

 

~*

[Dinoprophet]

The idea of tagalong caches like that has been around for years, though not necessarily with the anti-lame agenda attached. That agenda is where it kind of falls apart -- the people who would most appreciate it probably aren't hunting those micros anyway.

[+thedeadpirate]

I think it's just a slap in the cache owner's face. Why don't you be up front and just post a rude log telling the cache owner how you best know the way he should have hidden his or her cache. Essentially that's what this is about right?

 

You know, something like "Hey sticky face, I really thought your micro was lame. Especially when I looked around and saw that there was room to put a full size ammo can. And because I like full size ammo cans, I think you did a lousy job by placing this micro. BTW, thanks for the smiley."

[+BadAndy]

I'd hit it.

[+infiniteMPG]

I think it's just a slap in the cache owner's face. Why don't you be up front and just post a rude log telling the cache owner how you best know the way he should have hidden his or her cache. Essentially that's what this is about right? You know, something like "Hey sticky face, I really thought your micro was lame. Especially when I looked around and saw that there was room to put a full size ammo can. And because I like full size ammo cans, I think you did a lousy job by placing this micro. BTW, thanks for the smiley."

LOL I've actually had a couple log that sounded like that....

 

For the micro-bashers, here's a good article.... The Dreaded Micro

 

Wonder if they'd also be tempted to place the coords to a well camoed and tough to find nearby micro in an ammo can tossed at the bottom of a tree that you could find in the dark without a flashlight in 30 seconds?

[Mr.Yuck]

I was putting around on vacation a couple of months ago. Just had a bunch of .loc files in the GPS, no info on any caches. Drove about 500 feet from one, which was a nice park on a wooded hillside with trails. Sounds good, stopped the car and got out. Made my way to the cache, and I find a film canister! (Ammo box or tupperware could have been hidden anywhere in the area). Turns out it was a vacation cache thrown down by a European. This was in NYC (Staten Island).

 

Sorry, had to share. I really don't run into this very often at all! What you describe, I'd say is kind of rude, especially without the owners permission (which I doubt you'd get).

[+sbell111]

I was putting around on vacation a couple of months ago. Just had a bunch of .loc files in the GPS, no info on any caches. Drove about 500 feet from one, which was a nice park on a wooded hillside with trails. Sounds good, stopped the car and got out. Made my way to the cache, and I find a film canister! (Ammo box or tupperware could have been hidden anywhere in the area). Turns out it was a vacation cache thrown down by a European. This was in NYC (Staten Island).

 

Sorry, had to share. I really don't run into this very often at all! What you describe, I'd say is kind of rude, especially without the owners permission (which I doubt you'd get).

Did you enjoy the wooded area and trails? Would the cache be better if it was full of moldy swag?

[Mr.Yuck]

I think it's just a slap in the cache owner's face. Why don't you be up front and just post a rude log telling the cache owner how you best know the way he should have hidden his or her cache. Essentially that's what this is about right? You know, something like "Hey sticky face, I really thought your micro was lame. Especially when I looked around and saw that there was room to put a full size ammo can. And because I like full size ammo cans, I think you did a lousy job by placing this micro. BTW, thanks for the smiley."

LOL I've actually had a couple log that sounded like that....

 

For the micro-bashers, here's a good article.... The Dreaded Micro

 

 

Who's a micro basher? I don't know any.

 

That article was the subject of a whole thread within the last 1-2 months. Started by Coyote Red, I believe. Kind of odd reasoning in my opinion, but I can definitely agree with some of their points, considering the area the author is from. (Rural Idaho, I believe).

 

Wonder if they'd also be tempted to place the coords to a well camoed and tough to find nearby micro in an ammo can tossed at the bottom of a tree that you could find in the dark without a flashlight in 30 seconds?

 

Certainly an interesting twist to what the OP is proposing.

[Mr.Yuck]

I was putting around on vacation a couple of months ago. Just had a bunch of .loc files in the GPS, no info on any caches. Drove about 500 feet from one, which was a nice park on a wooded hillside with trails. Sounds good, stopped the car and got out. Made my way to the cache, and I find a film canister! (Ammo box or tupperware could have been hidden anywhere in the area). Turns out it was a vacation cache thrown down by a European. This was in NYC (Staten Island).

 

Sorry, had to share. I really don't run into this very often at all! What you describe, I'd say is kind of rude, especially without the owners permission (which I doubt you'd get).

Did you enjoy the wooded area and trails? Would the cache be better if it was full of moldy swag?

 

Yes I did! I forgot to mention the most important thing; my 9 yr. old was with me. The boy wants swag. Point I was making, I guess, is it was a vacation cache throwdown, and I rarely run into caches that are not the largest size an area can support. And we've all seen that debate many times.

[+flask]

it isn't necessarily a slap in the owner's face, provided you don't make the criticism. i've been to caches in which a person puts coordinates to one of their caches in someone else's cache.

 

it was sort of a puzzle, trying to figure out which caches he had put coordinates in. it didn't change the nature of the "host" caches, and it didn't imply criticism. it was just a guessing game of where he'd hidden the coordinates (we had a ball figuring it out), and for accidental finders of the coordinates, a nice bonus.

 

the bonus cache, by the way, was thirty miles away from the host cache in which we found the coordinates.

[+flask]

alternately, i have seen cachers leave swag items way too big for a cache by leaving coordinates to them.

 

e.g., a very nice handmade hiking stick left near the cache. it don't fit in. the finder left it anyway for whoever found the coordinates to it in the cache.

 

nobody thought it was an insult.

[+infiniteMPG]

it was sort of a puzzle, trying to figure out which caches he had put coordinates in. it didn't change the nature of the "host" caches, and it didn't imply criticism. it was just a guessing game of where he'd hidden the coordinates (we had a ball figuring it out), and for accidental finders of the coordinates, a nice bonus.

Sounds like a fun twist but hiding the coords in someone else's cache might be touchy. I don't think the OP was actually going to have the secondary container published, just hidden and referenced with the coords.

 

the bonus cache, by the way, was thirty miles away from the host cache in which we found the coordinates.

Best we found like that was a cache had a little sheet in it with coords listed on it and a cacher's name. The card said to go to the place listed on the coords and he had a deal with the pub owner to buy the cachers a free beer. Now that was cool!

[CoyoteRed]

So I and a caching buddy were shooting the breeze one day when the topic of lame micros came up (PREMPTIVE NOTE: I know that what one cacher considers lame might be anther's favorite, so let's not go down that road!). Specificaly we were talking about micros in an area where a full sized cache could have been placed. She came up with the idea of placing a full sized cache nearby, and planting the cords for it in the micro. Finders would'nt get an extra smilie, but they would get a chance at a larger cache.

 

We kind of laughed about it and moved on, but the idea stuck in the back of my mind - imagine the micro owner's puzzlement when logs like "Took nothing, left (some large swag item)."

 

Anybody heard of something like this?

I don't know if it would be appropriate for log your find on the micro page, but from this very website just before the latest rewrite...

What is usually in a cache?

A cache can come in many forms but the first item should always be the logbook. In its simplest form a cache can be just a logbook and nothing else. The logbook contains information from the founder of the cache and notes from the cache's visitors. The logbook can contain much valuable, rewarding, and entertaining information. A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches, and even jokes written by visitors. If you get some information from a logbook you should give some back. At the very least you can leave the date and time you visited the cache.

 

Some call it rude. This site said it was okay. I don't see a problem with it as long as you're not logging it as a separate find on the micro's cache page, or making the implication the nearby cache is in response to the host being a micro--even though it is.

 

On a side note, many have indicated that if you offer to hide a nearby "better" cache if they archive theirs you'll be rewarded with a one-fingered salute. Often the cache is placed with the thought that's the best that can be done, but when someone else comes along and proves otherwise, then it's an insult. Go figure.

[+TotemLake]

I was putting around on vacation a couple of months ago. Just had a bunch of .loc files in the GPS, no info on any caches. Drove about 500 feet from one, which was a nice park on a wooded hillside with trails. Sounds good, stopped the car and got out. Made my way to the cache, and I find a film canister! (Ammo box or tupperware could have been hidden anywhere in the area). Turns out it was a vacation cache thrown down by a European. This was in NYC (Staten Island).

 

Sorry, had to share. I really don't run into this very often at all! What you describe, I'd say is kind of rude, especially without the owners permission (which I doubt you'd get).

Did you enjoy the wooded area and trails? Would the cache be better if it was full of moldy swag?

Your perception of the experience is too narrow. A micro in the woods without adequate info is a needle in the haystack search and the effort to look for it does reflect negatively on the area more than a regular sized cache. The experience that this negative impact creates for the next finder is not really pleasant (IMO) and it damages the area with all the tramping around (true experience). Bark torn off of trees because the chip looked fake, moss ripped from its roots because it looked like it didn't quite belong. Logs on the ground trampled to death and not just on the trail and the foliage takes a major hit. The damage can be significant enough it begins to border the look of vandalism. Micros are not an area friendly cache when placed in the middle of the woods.

 

Yes some of it does repair itself over time, but the crushed logs don't become the habitat they should have been. My question boils down to this... Why hide a cache that's going to knowingly create more localized damage than a regular sized cache?

Edited September 12, 2008 by TotemLake

[+sbell111]

I was putting around on vacation a couple of months ago. Just had a bunch of .loc files in the GPS, no info on any caches. Drove about 500 feet from one, which was a nice park on a wooded hillside with trails. Sounds good, stopped the car and got out. Made my way to the cache, and I find a film canister! (Ammo box or tupperware could have been hidden anywhere in the area). Turns out it was a vacation cache thrown down by a European. This was in NYC (Staten Island).

 

Sorry, had to share. I really don't run into this very often at all! What you describe, I'd say is kind of rude, especially without the owners permission (which I doubt you'd get).

Did you enjoy the wooded area and trails? Would the cache be better if it was full of moldy swag?

Your perception of the experience is too narrow. A micro in the woods without adequate info is a needle in the haystack search and the effort to look for it does reflect negatively on the area more than a regular sized cache. The experience that this negative impact creates for the next finder is not really pleasant (IMO) and it damages the area with all the tramping around (true experience). Bark torn off of trees because the chip looked fake, moss ripped from its roots because it looked like it didn't quite belong. Logs on the ground trampled to death and not just on the trail and the foliage takes a major hit. The damage can be significant enough it begins to border the look of vandalism. Micros are not an area friendly cache when placed in the middle of the woods.

 

Yes some of it does repair itself over time, but the crushed logs don't become the habitat they should have been. My question boils down to this... Why hide a cache that's going to knowingly create more localized damage than a regular sized cache?

Your perception of the experience is too narrow and colored by your own personal axes. TheWhiteUrkel didn't state tht there was any damage or risk of damage due to the micro. For all we know the micro was hidden using one of the most obvious micro-hiding methods and would never result in damage. Just because a micro is in a park, does not mean that it is inviting damage.

[+Waazdag]

Your perception of the experience is too narrow. A micro in the woods without adequate info is a needle in the haystack search and the effort to look for it does reflect negatively on the area more than a regular sized cache. The experience that this negative impact creates for the next finder is not really pleasant (IMO) and it damages the area with all the tramping around (true experience). Bark torn off of trees because the chip looked fake, moss ripped from its roots because it looked like it didn't quite belong. Logs on the ground trampled to death and not just on the trail and the foliage takes a major hit. The damage can be significant enough it begins to border the look of vandalism. Micros are not an area friendly cache when placed in the middle of the woods.

 

Yes some of it does repair itself over time, but the crushed logs don't become the habitat they should have been. My question boils down to this... Why hide a cache that's going to knowingly create more localized damage than a regular sized cache?

 

I heartily agree! Micros have their place, even Nanos, but the wilderness is really NOT that location. Heck, if you want to make it tough, why not a real Nano: engrave a "You found it" and the coordinates to a log book on a piece of rice and hide it on a sand bar on a river edge! Let's see anyone find that!

Edited September 12, 2008 by Waazdag

[+infiniteMPG]

Yes some of it does repair itself over time, but the crushed logs don't become the habitat they should have been. My question boils down to this... Why hide a cache that's going to knowingly create more localized damage than a regular sized cache?

A micro hidden in the eye socket of a deer skull causes no damage to the area and is a lot more fun a find then clunking an ammo can tossed at the base of the tree. A waterproof match container 30-feet up in a tree or a decon precariously hanging over a ledge that you can find quickly but are challenged figuring out how to get doesn't damage the area. IMHO the technique of seeking a cache has more to do with tearing the area apart then the technique of hiding it, and it doesn't matter if it's a full sized or a nano if people don't respect their environment. We recently found an ammo can in the woods with a dozen DNF's and the whole area trampled to pieces. We finally found the very sneakily hidden ammo can but the size of the cache didn't prevent people from being careless and disrespectful of nature.

 

Maybe it's just us but we don't trade swag as we see that mainly a draw to keep the kids entertained, and not many kids are going to be making that 10 mile hike on a 4/4 cache. And when there's a challenge in finding the actual cache it's as much fun at GZ as it is getting there. Guess we could classify ammo cans hidden in the only place you could possibly hide an ammo can at ground zero as HAG's (hike and grabs), as they're about as much of a challenge as PAG's after you park. But we still have fun with both.

 

Not knocking any of them but I think the best thing is a good mix of everything and everyone just have as much fun at each one as they can. If you didn't like the hide or the container then appreciate the area and if you didn't like that then check the GPSr for where the next cache is hidden.

[+TotemLake]

... and colored by your own personal axes. ...

I know what TWU responded to. You didn't have to make your reply to me a personal dig. I could have just as easily turned on your comment about the moldy swag. I merely gave a true anecdotal experience about what happens when micros are hidden in the woods without appropriate info when a regular sized cache would have been better suited.

 

iMPG: I heartily agree. There is a proper balance and there is a proper place for all types. We all know that not all cachers walk in with a sense of skillful hunting. Those cachers are like bulls in a china shop. I have a regular sized cache that took an area hit the first year and I had to modify my page to ask people to be a bit more easy on their searches. The end result is the area has recovered minus the one severely damaged log. So again, I do speak from experience and not just mouthing off with a personal axe to grind as indicated by a previous post.

[+Renegade Knight]

...

Anybody heard of something like this?

Not really. I honestly don't see much purpose to it other than personal amusement.

 

Overall there are a lot of micro's where a larger cache would work fine and which wouldn't change the nature of the hide. Locally we had a reversal of the trend. Our smallest containers are tend to be decons now. Film canisters are not nearly as common as they used to be. Same hides, larger containers. Cool.

[+Renegade Knight]

Yes some of it does repair itself over time, but the crushed logs don't become the habitat they should have been. My question boils down to this... Why hide a cache that's going to knowingly create more localized damage than a regular sized cache?

A micro hidden in the eye socket of a deer skull causes no damage to the area and is a lot more fun a find then clunking an ammo can tossed at the base of the tree....

 

Caches like that are why I changed my rule of thumb to "don't use a cache smaller than you need." from "use the largest cache the area can reasonably support". A lot of folks spend a lot of time hung up on trying to stuff the deer skull inside the ammo can...

[+infiniteMPG]

Caches like that are why I changed my rule of thumb to "don't use a cache smaller than you need." from "use the largest cache the area can reasonably support". A lot of folks spend a lot of time hung up on trying to stuff the deer skull inside the ammo can...

There was a local cache that contained the handiwork of a local cacher's taxidermy hobby and it ended up muggled just before we got there and we regretted never seeing it. I don't think size matters a bit, hide the cache, technique and container that fits. If a micro cleverly hidden in the middle of a massive preserve fits the spot the best then so be it. I think what makes a cache good or not is an overall experience and not just one aspect of it.

 

iMPG: I heartily agree. There is a proper balance and there is a proper place for all types. We all know that not all cachers walk in with a sense of skillful hunting. Those cachers are like bulls in a china shop. I have a regular sized cache that took an area hit the first year and I had to modify my page to ask people to be a bit more easy on their searches. The end result is the area has recovered minus the one severely damaged log. So again, I do speak from experience and not just mouthing off with a personal axe to grind as indicated by a previous post.

Totally understood, I have even had people send me emails stating that they see people have been in the wrong spot looking for one of my hides and requested me change the hint or description to keep them from damaging something and I do it immediately. One particular cache I hid near my home coords, someone tried to get the FTF at night and rearranged the entire location looking to the point of me having top spend a couple hours putting everything back (including my cache that was camoed well and they tossed it aside). Luckily it was just rocks but it shows that some people are so hungry for the find I'm glad they aren't carrying a chain saw

[+sbell111]

... and colored by your own personal axes. ...

I know what TWU responded to. You didn't have to make your reply to me a personal dig. I could have just as easily turned on your comment about the moldy swag. I merely gave a true anecdotal experience about what happens when micros are hidden in the woods without appropriate info when a regular sized cache would have been better suited.

 

iMPG: I heartily agree. There is a proper balance and there is a proper place for all types. We all know that not all cachers walk in with a sense of skillful hunting. Those cachers are like bulls in a china shop. I have a regular sized cache that took an area hit the first year and I had to modify my page to ask people to be a bit more easy on their searches. The end result is the area has recovered minus the one severely damaged log. So again, I do speak from experience and not just mouthing off with a personal axe to grind as indicated by a previous post.

Settle down, I was just kidding as noted by my rare use of a smiley.

 

That being said, I think that you missed my point that just because TWU gave an example of a micro in a park, doesn't mean that it was hidden in a location or by use of a method that welcomed destruction.

[Mr.Yuck]

... and colored by your own personal axes. ...

I know what TWU responded to. You didn't have to make your reply to me a personal dig. I could have just as easily turned on your comment about the moldy swag. I merely gave a true anecdotal experience about what happens when micros are hidden in the woods without appropriate info when a regular sized cache would have been better suited.

 

iMPG: I heartily agree. There is a proper balance and there is a proper place for all types. We all know that not all cachers walk in with a sense of skillful hunting. Those cachers are like bulls in a china shop. I have a regular sized cache that took an area hit the first year and I had to modify my page to ask people to be a bit more easy on their searches. The end result is the area has recovered minus the one severely damaged log. So again, I do speak from experience and not just mouthing off with a personal axe to grind as indicated by a previous post.

Settle down, I was just kidding as noted by my rare use of a smiley.

 

That being said, I think that you missed my point that just because TWU gave an example of a micro in a park, doesn't mean that it was hidden in a location or by use of a method that welcomed destruction.

 

Yes, a very rare use of the smiley by Sbell. Does that mean you are usually not kidding?

 

I guess I should chime in. The cache in question is pretty low traffic; 57 visits in 2.5 years. Who wants to pay an $8 bridge toll to find caches on Staten Island? I did in fact not see any significant damage caused by cachers at this location. Just shocked to see a film can with a soggy scrap of paper, when a cache that could accomodate travel bugs, and smelly moldy swag for TWU Jr. could have been hidden anywhere around there.

 

Oh believe me, I have some stories about "bull in the china shop" search techniques, and damage to areas. Mostly micros in the woods (and mostly legs of multicaches), but not all of them.

[+chrisandjanet]

I didn't say I wanted to do it, I was just amused by the thought of a micro log indicating there was something else going on, and the owner's puzzlement at same.

 

BTW, I wasn't bashing the creative micros, or even the LPM's (because it would be kind of hard to put an ammo can under a skirt). The specific cache that brought up the discussion was a key holder under a park sign, with a beautifully wooded nature trail about 50 feet away.

 

Don't tell me we all haven't looked at SOME cache SOMEWHERE and thought to ourselves, "Now why didn't they use (cache option C) instead of (cache option A)?" Ammo can under a POS included.

Edited September 12, 2008 by chrisandjanet

[+TotemLake]

... and colored by your own personal axes. ...

I know what TWU responded to. You didn't have to make your reply to me a personal dig. I could have just as easily turned on your comment about the moldy swag. I merely gave a true anecdotal experience about what happens when micros are hidden in the woods without appropriate info when a regular sized cache would have been better suited.

 

iMPG: I heartily agree. There is a proper balance and there is a proper place for all types. We all know that not all cachers walk in with a sense of skillful hunting. Those cachers are like bulls in a china shop. I have a regular sized cache that took an area hit the first year and I had to modify my page to ask people to be a bit more easy on their searches. The end result is the area has recovered minus the one severely damaged log. So again, I do speak from experience and not just mouthing off with a personal axe to grind as indicated by a previous post.

Settle down, I was just kidding as noted by my rare use of a smiley.

 

That being said, I think that you missed my point that just because TWU gave an example of a micro in a park, doesn't mean that it was hidden in a location or by use of a method that welcomed destruction.

 

Yes, a very rare use of the smiley by Sbell. Does that mean you are usually not kidding?

 

I guess I should chime in. The cache in question is pretty low traffic; 57 visits in 2.5 years. Who wants to pay an $8 bridge toll to find caches on Staten Island? I did in fact not see any significant damage caused by cachers at this location. Just shocked to see a film can with a soggy scrap of paper, when a cache that could accomodate travel bugs, and smelly moldy swag for TWU Jr. could have been hidden anywhere around there.

 

Oh believe me, I have some stories about "bull in the china shop" search techniques, and damage to areas. Mostly micros in the woods (and mostly legs of multicaches), but not all of them.

PM sent to Sbell111 but TWU emphasized the direction I tried to go in without trying to take the comments out of context. I didn't miss the points made. Merely tried to expand on them.

[+sbell111]

... and colored by your own personal axes. ...

I know what TWU responded to. You didn't have to make your reply to me a personal dig. I could have just as easily turned on your comment about the moldy swag. I merely gave a true anecdotal experience about what happens when micros are hidden in the woods without appropriate info when a regular sized cache would have been better suited.

 

iMPG: I heartily agree. There is a proper balance and there is a proper place for all types. We all know that not all cachers walk in with a sense of skillful hunting. Those cachers are like bulls in a china shop. I have a regular sized cache that took an area hit the first year and I had to modify my page to ask people to be a bit more easy on their searches. The end result is the area has recovered minus the one severely damaged log. So again, I do speak from experience and not just mouthing off with a personal axe to grind as indicated by a previous post.

Settle down, I was just kidding as noted by my rare use of a smiley.

 

That being said, I think that you missed my point that just because TWU gave an example of a micro in a park, doesn't mean that it was hidden in a location or by use of a method that welcomed destruction.

 

Yes, a very rare use of the smiley by Sbell. Does that mean you are usually not kidding?

Most of teh times, my posts are either meant to be taken seriously, or are (I hope) obvious attempts at lightening the mood. I realized that this post could be taken the wrong way, so I tossed in the smiley to try to ensure that no one took it wrong. It was a failed attempt.

[Mr.Yuck]

I didn't say I wanted to do it, I was just amused by the thought of a micro log indicating there was something else going on, and the owner's puzzlement at same.

 

BTW, I wasn't bashing the creative micros, or even the LPM's (because it would be kind of hard to put an ammo can under a skirt). The specific cache that brought up the discussion was a key holder under a park sign, with a beautifully wooded nature trail about 50 feet away.

 

Don't tell me we all haven't looked at SOME cache SOMEWHERE and thought to ourselves, "Now why didn't they use (cache option C) instead of (cache option A)?" Ammo can under a POS included.

 

Yes, I've seen it. Altoids tin on a nature trail sign (and no one put a cache on the nature trail for over two years, and after the altoid tin was archived). Wasn't Snoogs looking for examples of such things in his thread? I don't have to post a link, do I?

[+sbell111]

I didn't say I wanted to do it, I was just amused by the thought of a micro log indicating there was something else going on, and the owner's puzzlement at same.

 

BTW, I wasn't bashing the creative micros, or even the LPM's (because it would be kind of hard to put an ammo can under a skirt). The specific cache that brought up the discussion was a key holder under a park sign, with a beautifully wooded nature trail about 50 feet away.

 

Don't tell me we all haven't looked at SOME cache SOMEWHERE and thought to ourselves, "Now why didn't they use (cache option C) instead of (cache option A)?" Ammo can under a POS included.

 

Yes, I've seen it. Altoids tin on a nature trail sign (and no one put a cache on the nature trail for over two years, and after the altoid tin was archived). Wasn't Snoogs looking for examples of such things in his thread? I don't have to post a link, do I?

As I recall, he was looking for examples of micros crowding out larger caches. I assume that the nature trail would have had room for a larger cache more than 528 feet from the sign.

Edited September 12, 2008 by sbell111

[+thedeadpirate]

It's all about intent.

 

The OP's intent is to show that the cache owner could have and therefore should have used a full sized cache. It's not his place to tell the cache owner how to hide his caches.

 

I can imagine that the puzzle idea that Flask described would be a lot of fun. I would also imagine that if the person placing those coordinates did not inform the cache owners directly of what he was doing that he at least would have felt comfortable doing so because his intent was to offer a fun alternative.

 

The bonus cache idea seems to have a good intent; to add a little extra.

 

The reason I don't agree with the OP's idea is because the intent is clearly to push his way of doing things on someone else.

 

If you don't like micros, then don't hunt them or come to the forums and local geocaching meetings and try to affect change.

 

But what the op is suggesting is rude because what gives him the right to tell someone else how to hide their caches?

Edited September 12, 2008 by GeoBain

[+markandsandy]

So I and a caching buddy were shooting the breeze one day when the topic of lame micros came up ...Specificaly we were talking about micros in an area where a full sized cache could have been placed. ...

 

If it's OK to complain about hiding micros in an area where a full sized cache could have been placed, shouldn't it also be OK to complain about hiding full sized caches where a micro could have been placed?

[Mr.Yuck]

It's all about intent.

 

The OP's intent is to show that the cache owner could have and therefore should have used a full sized cache. It's not his place to tell the cache owner how to hide his caches.

 

I can imagine that the puzzle idea that Flask described would be a lot of fun. I would also imagine that if the person placing those coordinates did not inform the cache owners directly of what he was doing that he at least would have felt comfortable doing so because his intent was to offer a fun alternative.

 

The bonus cache idea seems to have a good intent; to add a little extra.

 

The reason I don't agree with the OP's idea is because the intent is clearly to push his way of doing things on someone else.

 

If you don't like micros, then don't hunt them or come to the forums and local geocaching meetings and try to affect change.

 

But what the op is suggesting is rude because what gives him the right to tell someone else how to hide their caches?

 

I agree with most of this post, and I myself said what the OP proposed would be rude in my first post to the thread. But there's one line I disagree with. I'll quote it again:

 

If you don't like micros, then don't hunt them or come to the forums and local geocaching meetings and try to affect change.

 

Huh? People aren't allowed to express their opinions on the matter? I've never really heard the ol' "if you don't like them, don't find them" line (which I agree with totally) followed by "and shut up".

 

I also think you might be falling into the "micro haters" trap. I don't know anyone who dislikes all micros.

Edited September 13, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[Mr.Yuck]

I didn't say I wanted to do it, I was just amused by the thought of a micro log indicating there was something else going on, and the owner's puzzlement at same.

 

BTW, I wasn't bashing the creative micros, or even the LPM's (because it would be kind of hard to put an ammo can under a skirt). The specific cache that brought up the discussion was a key holder under a park sign, with a beautifully wooded nature trail about 50 feet away.

 

Don't tell me we all haven't looked at SOME cache SOMEWHERE and thought to ourselves, "Now why didn't they use (cache option C) instead of (cache option A)?" Ammo can under a POS included.

 

Yes, I've seen it. Altoids tin on a nature trail sign (and no one put a cache on the nature trail for over two years, and after the altoid tin was archived). Wasn't Snoogs looking for examples of such things in his thread? I don't have to post a link, do I?

As I recall, he was looking for examples of micros crowding out larger caches. I assume that the nature trail would have had room for a larger cache more than 528 feet from the sign.

 

Yes, I'm sure it did have room. I don't get it though then, doesn't every cache keep someone from having another less than 528 feet away? That's OK, I think Snoogs is mad at me anyways.

[+thedeadpirate]

If you don't like micros, then don't hunt them or come to the forums and local geocaching meetings and try to affect change.

 

Huh? People aren't allowed to express their opinions on the matter? I've never really heard the ol' "if you don't like them, don't find them" line (which I agree with totally) followed by "and shut up".

 

I also think you might be falling into the "micro haters" trap. I don't know anyone who dislikes all micros.

 

My bad. Let me rewrite that sentence to make it clearer.

 

If you don't like micros, then don't hunt them. Or better yet, come to the forums and local geocaching meeting and try to affect some changes.

[+thedeadpirate]

That still doesn't necessary convey what is in my head. Geesh, it's difficult sometimes to convey in the written word what is in your head.

 

Basically there are 2 points to that thought:

 

1) If you don't like micros, then don't hunt them.

2) If you don't like micros, then try to affect some changes by bringing your concerns to the proper place such as these forums or your local geocaching meetings.

 

I hope that clears up my thought process.

Edited September 13, 2008 by GeoBain

[Mr.Yuck]

That still doesn't necessary convey what is in my head. Geesh, it's difficult sometimes to convey in the written word what is in your head.

 

Basically there are 2 points to that thought:

 

1) If you don't like micros, then don't hunt them.

2) If you don't like micros, then try to affect some changes by bringing your concerns to the proper place such as these forums or your local geocaching meetings.

 

I hope that clears up my thought process.

 

Got it! I now totally agree with your post. All three of them.

[+sbell111]

I also think you might be falling into the "micro haters" trap. I don't know anyone who dislikes all micros.

We've got one person who keeps railing against caches that can't hold swag, but he states that micros that do hold swag are OK.

[Mr.Yuck]

I also think you might be falling into the "micro haters" trap. I don't know anyone who dislikes all micros.

We've got one person who keeps railing against caches that can't hold swag, but he states that micros that do hold swag are OK.

 

Since you quoted me, would that be me? Man, this is one of the most misunderstood threads ever. It's like a Three's Company episode or something.

[Clan Riffster]

I think it's an interesting idea, but I'd have to pass on actually doing it. As someone pointed out earlier, the cache hider's intent was to have you find a micro. By placing a nearby ammo can bristling with swag, and including the coords in the existing micro cache, you change what the cache owner wanted to accomplish.

You have, however, given me an idea for a cache of my own:

"To Swag, or Not to Swag..."

Hide a micro/ammo can combo as you described, and leave the choice up to each seeker to make the hunt their own. They can sign the micro log and move on, or with a bit of additional effort, they can trade swag. The actual cache would be the micro at the posted location, so you could list it as a traditional. The second, swag filled container would be considered a bonus.

 

On a related note; if I found a micro, and discovered a place nearby, (but not too close nearby), that just screamed for a full size cache, I'd hide one there and list it at an alternative site.

[Clan Riffster]

It's like a Three's Company episode or something.

I was thinking Seinfeld.

[+sbell111]

I also think you might be falling into the "micro haters" trap. I don't know anyone who dislikes all micros.

We've got one person who keeps railing against caches that can't hold swag, but he states that micros that do hold swag are OK.

Since you quoted me, would that be me? Man, this is one of the most misunderstood threads ever. It's like a Three's Company episode or something.

I was responding to your post, so I quoted you. Obviously, I did not use you as my example since, to the best of my knowledge, you haven't taken the position that I gave in my example. Edited September 14, 2008 by sbell111