Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
joranda

Banning someone.

Recommended Posts

I read in one of the other post that geoware would ban someone. Now isn't that being way too harsh? What is being gained by that kind of punishment? What could possibly do to be banned from submitting earthcaches?

Share this post


Link to post

I read in one of the other post that geoware would ban someone. Now isn't that being way too harsh? What is being gained by that kind of punishment? What could possibly do to be banned from submitting earthcaches?

 

Here's the post:

 

If we find that someone has not received the correct permissions...and especially if we are contacted by the correct land manager...then the EC is archived until the fault is corrected.

 

Blatant breaking of the EC guidelines for permissions (or any thing else for that matter) pre or post approval can mean that a person becomes banned from having further EC approved and even have all their exisiting EC archived.

 

We take permission VERY seriously!

 

Geoaware

 

How it that "too harsh"? If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission, I'd be furious. And I would look into my legal options.

 

And duping an organization into sanctioning it by LYING about obtaining permission...!

 

"Too harsh"...? Nope. I don't think so. Besides, Geoaware wrote "blantant" and "can mean".

Edited by ATMouse

Share this post


Link to post

Goodness, the post was in your thread...? (I just looked.)

 

Howcumwhyfor you started this one? :)

Share this post


Link to post

I think it's an astonishing statement that merits attention in a separate thread.

 

If you mess up your permission details for a physical geocache, the guidelines for geocaches say that your cache may be quickly archived. That seems fair. But the guidelines do not say anything about banning the account holder from hiding any further geocaches, or about archiving all the other geocaches owned by the hider. Imagine you own 80 active geocaches, and the new security chief at the mall demands the removal of a cache authorized by his predecessor. Bye bye, 79 viable caches? I don't think that would go over well.

 

It's ironic that such a strong stance on permission would be adopted for visiting purely virtual waypoints. So long as I'm visiting a spot where I'm legally allowed to be, like on a trail or at a scenic overlook, no permission ought to be necessary. There's no container being left. I am just sharing coordinates. I continue to maintain that the permission requirement for earthcaches is at cross-purposes with both geocaching (for example, a virtual waypoint of a multicache that starts inside a National Park and ends outside of one) and Waymarking (where we've seen at least one land manager assert that permission is required for setting up a waymark, in the same breath where earthcaches are mentioned).

 

That is why I will never hide an earthcache.

Edited by The Leprechauns

Share this post


Link to post

I'm one of those guys :) ... I've been banned from placing anymore earth caches anywhere. Out of 96 earth caches I own I placed one on a state forrest that borders a national monument park called the Natural Bridge state park. I had permission to place ECs at the gorge and set up one that I thought was part of the red river gorge called Catacomb Arches. The park contacted me and asked me to shut it down, and I did. I later apologized. Geoaware recieved a email four days after it been shut down and sent me a email saying what I did was wrong. I agreed... It was one mistake out of over 100 submitted earthcaches. My punishment was all ECs I owned was blocked (that day) and I had to resubmit each permssion email from managers, land owners, etc. I pride myself on getting permission to place my ECs. I emailed the State Forrest manager and even he thought it was extereme for what happend and sent a email explaining how its easy to confuse the park with the red river gorge and has invited me back to the park to place future ECs. Unfortunatley I can no longer place ECs. It was fun while it lasted. I drove many miles across the USA, countless hours with my dog "Scout" and friend, and met a lot of great people while doing this. Maybe some day I can get back into the game of earth caches.

 

Geoaware has a really great program that has zero tolerance for mistakes and I respect that. After all it is his program and he has exercised that right :D .

Share this post


Link to post

Wow really your earth caches were banned just for a honest mistake, gee... that seems really extreme to do.

If one really looks at this and thinks on it, it almost seems to be a personal issue towards that cacher.

Share this post


Link to post

For a person to have a ban placed on the approval of new EarthCaches requires more than one issue about them not receiving the correct permissions. 'One mistake' does not mean a ban, but the cacher will be asked to provide proof that they have obtained the correct permissions for all of their active EarthCaches. If a second issue is found, then a ban may be started.

 

There is nothing personal in this. EarthCaches have strict guidelines about permissions that need to be enforced. By making a submission you agree to adhere to those guidelines.

 

A ban may not be forever. It is used to let the cacher know that we are serious about maintaining EarthCaches as an effective program and that requires them to follow the guidelines.

 

It is definitely 'three strikes and you are out'. I am sorry that we have to be so harsh, but it is very important that we continue to enforce the guidelines that have enabled EarthCaches to be so successful.

Edited by geoaware

Share this post


Link to post

How it that "too harsh"? If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission, I'd be furious. And I would look into my legal options.

 

Legal options? Are you serious? Not quite sure what law is being violated, isn't an earthcache basically virtual? I could put one on your roof if I wanted...

Share this post


Link to post

 

How it that "too harsh"? If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission, I'd be furious. And I would look into my legal options.

 

 

"Put" you don't put anything. You list coordinates with a description. If it is a location that is accessible to the public without permission then why is permission needed to list the coordinates and a description of what is there? If it is private property then that is different and permission should be required.

Share this post


Link to post

How it that "too harsh"? If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission, I'd be furious. And I would look into my legal options.

 

Legal options? Are you serious? Not quite sure what law is being violated, isn't an earthcache basically virtual? I could put one on your roof if I wanted...

 

If you had to come onto my property to get an Earthcache, that is: you had to walk into my land, that I own, that I have posted, that I pay taxes on, that I purchased by the sweat of my brow without permission, you bet I'd have you arrested.

Share this post


Link to post

If it is a publically accessable place then there would be noone to get upset and request the delisting and there is no issue. Private property has an obvious tresspassing issue. Public parks, while publically accessable, have the responsibility to maintain a quality experience for all users. So permission is required because they may know of additional hazards, cultural/environmental resources, previous damage to a resource, or upcoming changes.

 

This has actually saved me some trouble a couple of times as the rangers have warned me of trail realignments and changes to informational signs.

 

I have only been denied permission once. Personally I think it was because of the association with geocaching, but was given a reason of degradation of a cultural resource (it was located adjacent to a heavily used paved camping area). Luckly I could move down 100 yards along the beach and get approval from the city beach.

 

GSA also has to protect itself. Since they review each one, an owner or agency could bring legal action against them. While it may not win, the fight would cost the GSA money and cast the GSA and EarthCaching program in a bad light. See what kind of reputation geocaching has gotten due to a few irresponsible hiders and seekers.

Share this post


Link to post

How it that "too harsh"? If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission, I'd be furious. And I would look into my legal options.

 

Legal options? Are you serious? Not quite sure what law is being violated, isn't an earthcache basically virtual? I could put one on your roof if I wanted...

 

If you had to come onto my property to get an Earthcache, that is: you had to walk into my land, that I own, that I have posted, that I pay taxes on, that I purchased by the sweat of my brow without permission, you bet I'd have you arrested.

 

Lets get this straight... You were talking about the person placing the earthcache in the first comment and now you are talking abou the person hunting the earthcache.. Please pick a topic, because you are confusing me.

Share this post


Link to post

Can you be more specific on "the ban may not be forever"?

 

How would it be handled if it was just an honest mistake, like on the submittal forms you ask for the land owners/ park person name and phone number and when that is given to you, do You go back and recheck to make sure with that land owner/ park person everything is legit?

 

Because by doing this it would benefit the owner of any Earthcache in a way of not having the cache(s) later shut down for a mistake of a oversite. The way I read the submittal forms you are checking everything that is being submitted to you so these oversites are not happening. This seems to be a very nice educational thing for families and friends to do. But when people are going out, with the gas prices as high as they are, and looking for and finding these earthcaches and then later you are not pulling your end of the bargin with making sure the permission is legit, by not calling or emailing to check with the parks and landowners yourself, how does that look? To me it all could be avoided if this was being done at the start up of a Earthcache between you and the cache owner.

 

If this is the case that you are not going in the beginning of the set up and checking on the information then why put out rules and guidlines to be followed by people?

 

I understand a 3 strike rule, but there are alot of people out there who are probably not "following" your policies and are getting away with it, because corners are being cut or overlookes on your end. But does just one person have to pay for something that has been apoloziged for and been corrected to where their Earthcaches are being shut down and new ones (that are by the rules) cannot be set up?

 

As said above, this is a very fun and educational thing for families and friends wether it be going out and finding the earthcaches or looking for earthcaches to set up, because there is history and geological information people are learning. So why do this to one person if you are not doing it to everyone?

Share this post


Link to post

...If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission...

 

1) Somebody put an address on your property without your permission. That's akin to an earth cache.

You have no legal recourse. If you happen to have a cool geological feature on your land. There it is. It's still cool. People may want to see it. People may write books about it and tell other people the address.

 

Where the issue begins is if people seeking that cool feature have permission to be on your land. Own a Frank Lloyd Wright house? You will be listed somewhere and there is an interest. Same idea. Same issue. Same lack of recourse until the fans start tresspassing.

Share this post


Link to post

...If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission...

 

1) Somebody put an address on your property without your permission. That's akin to an earth cache.

You have no legal recourse. If you happen to have a cool geological feature on your land. There it is. It's still cool. People may want to see it. People may write books about it and tell other people the address.

 

Where the issue begins is if people seeking that cool feature have permission to be on your land. Own a Frank Lloyd Wright house? You will be listed somewhere and there is an interest. Same idea. Same issue. Same lack of recourse until the fans start tresspassing.

 

Just for clarity, the recourse would not be against the publishers of the "Frank Lloyd Wright house" book.. Uh oh, I used his name, do I need permission for that?

Share this post


Link to post

...If I owned property and someone put an Earthcache there without my permission...

 

1) Somebody put an address on your property without your permission. That's akin to an earth cache.

You have no legal recourse. If you happen to have a cool geological feature on your land. There it is. It's still cool. People may want to see it. People may write books about it and tell other people the address.

 

Where the issue begins is if people seeking that cool feature have permission to be on your land. Own a Frank Lloyd Wright house? You will be listed somewhere and there is an interest. Same idea. Same issue. Same lack of recourse until the fans start tresspassing.

 

I am presuming that this Earthcache would not be readily available to someone from the road, that access would have to occur. Sorry for the confusion.

 

I guess I figure that to create an Earthcache you need access. That may not be true. I guess I figured that by creating an Earthcache, you are telling Earthcache.org that people may seek it. Maybe that is not true, either.

 

But I stand by my statements about property owner's rights. And as it has been put so clearly by another post, the game is owned by someone else and not by the players. The owners get to set the rules.

 

Shame on someone for not getting permission. I have gotten permission for every cache I've ever put out. It's the way the game is played.

Share this post


Link to post

Shame on someone for not getting permission. I have gotten permission for every cache I've ever put out. It's the way the game is played.

 

Shame on me? I've only gotten permission when "Necessary" and "Required".. Pardon my bluntness, but getting permission to place a cache in a public area is stupid (city parks, sidewalks, etc.)...

 

Guideline on permission

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

"You assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache"..

 

Nowhere does it say explicit permission is required for each and every cache that you place.

Share this post


Link to post

Shame on someone for not getting permission. I have gotten permission for every cache I've ever put out. It's the way the game is played.

 

Shame on me? I've only gotten permission when "Necessary" and "Required".. Pardon my bluntness, but getting permission to place a cache in a public area is stupid (city parks, sidewalks, etc.)...

 

Guideline on permission

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

"You assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache"..

 

Nowhere does it say explicit permission is required for each and every cache that you place.

 

Now I'm confused. Those guidelines are for physical caches, yes? Not Earthcaches.

Edited by ATMouse

Share this post


Link to post

Shame on someone for not getting permission. I have gotten permission for every cache I've ever put out. It's the way the game is played.

 

Shame on me? I've only gotten permission when "Necessary" and "Required".. Pardon my bluntness, but getting permission to place a cache in a public area is stupid (city parks, sidewalks, etc.)...

 

Guideline on permission

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

"You assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache"..

 

Nowhere does it say explicit permission is required for each and every cache that you place.

 

It certainly does for an EarthCache.....the guideline says:

 

"EarthCache sites developed on private and public land must have prior approval of the landowners before submission. These must have written approval with the appropriate land-managing agency. The name and contact details of the person from who you received approval MUST be given. The developed text should be sent to the landholder for approval. EarthCache sites developed in association with National Parks*, National Forests, or other public lands are encouraged"

Share this post


Link to post

Goodness, the post was in your thread...? (I just looked.)

 

Howcumwhyfor you started this one? :)

 

Why did I ask this question? I just wanted to know and thought that what he said seemed pretty harsh. To ban some one just don't seem right. But you are all for it and that is your veiw point which is fine, it is a free world.

Share this post


Link to post

Can you be more specific on "the ban may not be forever"?

 

How would it be handled if it was just an honest mistake, like on the submittal forms you ask for the land owners/ park person name and phone number and when that is given to you, do You go back and recheck to make sure with that land owner/ park person everything is legit?

 

Because by doing this it would benefit the owner of any Earthcache in a way of not having the cache(s) later shut down for a mistake of a oversite. The way I read the submittal forms you are checking everything that is being submitted to you so these oversites are not happening. This seems to be a very nice educational thing for families and friends to do. But when people are going out, with the gas prices as high as they are, and looking for and finding these earthcaches and then later you are not pulling your end of the bargin with making sure the permission is legit, by not calling or emailing to check with the parks and landowners yourself, how does that look? To me it all could be avoided if this was being done at the start up of a Earthcache between you and the cache owner.

 

If this is the case that you are not going in the beginning of the set up and checking on the information then why put out rules and guidlines to be followed by people?

 

I understand a 3 strike rule, but there are alot of people out there who are probably not "following" your policies and are getting away with it, because corners are being cut or overlookes on your end. But does just one person have to pay for something that has been apoloziged for and been corrected to where their Earthcaches are being shut down and new ones (that are by the rules) cannot be set up?

 

As said above, this is a very fun and educational thing for families and friends wether it be going out and finding the earthcaches or looking for earthcaches to set up, because there is history and geological information people are learning. So why do this to one person if you are not doing it to everyone?

 

 

You couldn't of said it any better than what you said. I just wish everyone else could get back on the topic at hand. Thanks for your input. :)

Share this post


Link to post

GSA also has to protect itself. Since they review each one, an owner or agency could bring legal action against them. While it may not win, the fight would cost the GSA money and cast the GSA and EarthCaching program in a bad light. See what kind of reputation geocaching has gotten due to a few irresponsible hiders and seekers.

 

This is from EarthCache.org. It is the first thing you read:

 

The most exciting way to learn about the Earth and its processes is to get into the outdoors and experience it first-hand. Visiting an EarthCache site is a great outdoor activity the whole family can enjoy. The Geological Society of America (GSA) administers the listing of EarthCache sites around the world.

 

The GSA members are the ones who developed the idea for Earth caches not Groundspeak from what I understand. They have the right to ban anyone that they feel is breaking THERE rules.

When you talk to anyone about earthcaches the main thing you should talk about is that the listing are approved by the GSA.

The GSA has there name riding on what you put in the listing, where the earthcache is placed, and if the person in charge of the area wants the extra foot traffic, not Groundspeak. Groundspeak only lists them as a courtesy and a way to show there support of the environment.

 

Now if a person has a bunch of earthcaches out there and none have received the proper permission then ALL of that persons earth caches should be Archived. If a person makes an honest mistake then I don't believe that they should have all of there listings archived and subsequently baned from creating another earthcache.

Unfortunately this is not my decision nor do I want it. These rules have been created for a reason.

 

We should all be happy that EarthCaches actually have rules and not guidelines like Geocaches. This helps in consistency of placements

Edited by genegene

Share this post


Link to post

Can you be more specific on "the ban may not be forever"?

 

How would it be handled if it was just an honest mistake, like on the submittal forms you ask for the land owners/ park person name and phone number and when that is given to you, do You go back and recheck to make sure with that land owner/ park person everything is legit?

 

Because by doing this it would benefit the owner of any Earthcache in a way of not having the cache(s) later shut down for a mistake of a oversite. The way I read the submittal forms you are checking everything that is being submitted to you so these oversites are not happening. This seems to be a very nice educational thing for families and friends to do. But when people are going out, with the gas prices as high as they are, and looking for and finding these earthcaches and then later you are not pulling your end of the bargin with making sure the permission is legit, by not calling or emailing to check with the parks and landowners yourself, how does that look? To me it all could be avoided if this was being done at the start up of a Earthcache between you and the cache owner.

 

If this is the case that you are not going in the beginning of the set up and checking on the information then why put out rules and guidlines to be followed by people?

 

I understand a 3 strike rule, but there are alot of people out there who are probably not "following" your policies and are getting away with it, because corners are being cut or overlookes on your end. But does just one person have to pay for something that has been apoloziged for and been corrected to where their Earthcaches are being shut down and new ones (that are by the rules) cannot be set up?

 

As said above, this is a very fun and educational thing for families and friends wether it be going out and finding the earthcaches or looking for earthcaches to set up, because there is history and geological information people are learning. So why do this to one person if you are not doing it to everyone?

 

 

You couldn't of said it any better than what you said. I just wish everyone else could get back on the topic at hand. Thanks for your input. :)

 

:D

 

I agree.

 

I do believe that repeated violations of rules need to have consequences. Arguing that some people get away with breaking rules is not a rationale for abandoning those rules.

Share this post


Link to post

I think what they meant was there are others out there that has done the same but have never been caught.

Share this post


Link to post

I think what they meant was there are others out there that has done the same but have never been caught.

 

I repeat: I do believe that repeated violations of rules need to have consequences. Arguing that some people get away with breaking rules is not a rationale for abandoning those rules.

Share this post


Link to post

What if they didn't know that they was breaking any rules as cavscout said in his post and the he archived it on his own when he found out that it was out of bounds. Why should he be ban from setting up anymore earthcaches. Is there more to the story? :)

Share this post


Link to post

Out of 96 earth caches I own I placed one on a state forrest that borders a national monument park called the Natural Bridge state park. I had permission to place ECs at the gorge and set up one that I thought was part of the red river gorge called Catacomb Arches. The park contacted me and asked me to shut it down, and I did. I later apologized.

 

I emailed the State Forrest manager and even he thought it was extereme for what happend and sent a email explaining how its easy to confuse the park with the red river gorge and has invited me back to the park to place future ECs.

 

Geoaware has a really great program that has zero tolerance for mistakes and I respect that. After all it is his program and he has exercised that right ;) .

 

The quote above is the basics of what happened.

 

As you notice Cav Scout is not bitter against Geoaware or the earthcache program.

If he is, then what was said was the appropriate way to handle the situation in the forum here and I applaud him for not using the new area as a personal attack against earthcaches or Geoaware.

He made an error and even though I'm sure he is upset about the decision he understands the consequences of the error and I'm glad he has shared them with us all.

Share this post


Link to post

With the amount of earthcaches that he has, I'm sure you can say he enjoyed doing them. But why be banned.

Share this post


Link to post

If it is a publically accessable place then there would be noone to get upset and request the delisting and there is no issue. Private property has an obvious tresspassing issue. Public parks, while publically accessable, have the responsibility to maintain a quality experience for all users. So permission is required because they may know of additional hazards, cultural/environmental resources, previous damage to a resource, or upcoming changes.

 

This has actually saved me some trouble a couple of times as the rangers have warned me of trail realignments and changes to informational signs.

 

I have only been denied permission once. Personally I think it was because of the association with geocaching, but was given a reason of degradation of a cultural resource (it was located adjacent to a heavily used paved camping area). Luckly I could move down 100 yards along the beach and get approval from the city beach.

 

GSA also has to protect itself. Since they review each one, an owner or agency could bring legal action against them. While it may not win, the fight would cost the GSA money and cast the GSA and EarthCaching program in a bad light. See what kind of reputation geocaching has gotten due to a few irresponsible hiders and seekers.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself....

Share this post


Link to post

Man oh man, life is so complicated in the States.

 

Us Kiwis have the easy life ;)

 

I must agree - here in South africa - it's also really easy.

Share this post


Link to post

I can see that everyone has gotten off subject again..... and I wonder why Geoaware has not answered my questions. These are just some things that I would like to know for a future reference.

Share this post


Link to post

Ok I would like to know your policy since you responded here... My first mistake cost me all of my earth caches being shut down until I sent in proof of permission for each one of my 96 Earth Cahes (and this is after you had proof of permission from the start for each EC I owned that was on private property or on a national park)

 

The second implied mistake was when I sent in a picture of me inside the entrance of an restricted cave. The photo was approved by Fort Knox range control and used to satisfy the curiousity of finders wanting to know what the cave looked like. A phone call asking about the EC was miscombobulated into being "I broke Fort Knox rules", etc. Come on now, I am in the military (22 years, E8 MSG) why would I risk UCMJ and break the rules on a military reservation for an EC? I was then sent an email from you saying you would no longer aprove anymore ECs from me....

 

96 ECs,all approved by you and all information requested by you from me sent to you promptly.My emails to you have always been curtious and polite.

 

So my question is, am I banned or just suspened? For how long?

 

I enjoy doing this and miss setting up ECs for others to enjoy.

 

Please respond :D .

 

For a person to have a ban placed on the approval of new EarthCaches requires more than one issue about them not receiving the correct permissions. 'One mistake' does not mean a ban, but the cacher will be asked to provide proof that they have obtained the correct permissions for all of their active EarthCaches. If a second issue is found, then a ban may be started.

 

There is nothing personal in this. EarthCaches have strict guidelines about permissions that need to be enforced. By making a submission you agree to adhere to those guidelines.

 

A ban may not be forever. It is used to let the cacher know that we are serious about maintaining EarthCaches as an effective program and that requires them to follow the guidelines.

 

It is definitely 'three strikes and you are out'. I am sorry that we have to be so harsh, but it is very important that we continue to enforce the guidelines that have enabled EarthCaches to be so successful.

Edited by Cav Scout

Share this post


Link to post
As you notice Cav Scout is not bitter against Geoaware or the earthcache program.
:D

 

Maybe Cav Scout can take the discussion off line and email Geoware directly to discuss the matter?

 

I certainly don't have a problem with Geoware's decision, since it is clearly stated in the Guidelines, but I am perplexed why the Ranger thought it necessary to escelate the situation by contacting the GSA. It appears that Cav Scout did the responsible thing and Archived the Listing immediately after receiving the request from the Ranger? The fact that the Ranger did not pursue legal action against Cav Scout, makes me question the motives behind this course of action. Sounds like more than one agenda going on here to me :D

 

Color me skeptical.

Share this post


Link to post

...But I stand by my statements about property owner's rights. And as it has been put so clearly by another post, the game is owned by someone else and not by the players. The owners get to set the rules....

 

The cache is owned by the cache owner. The site owner gets to set the rules for listing on the site. I would imagine that perhaps someday there will be a game owner but for now Earth Caches can be listed on any site that accepts the catagory. Much like a regular cache. The other sites may not have organizational backing or a catagory. They could though.

 

It's like landmarks. They just exist. You cant' get to them all but someone could list them (and It's on my development ideas list) rather like the degree confluence project just listed their own thing.

Share this post


Link to post
As you notice Cav Scout is not bitter against Geoaware or the earthcache program.
:ph34r:

 

Maybe Cav Scout can take the discussion off line and email Geoware directly to discuss the matter?

 

I certainly don't have a problem with Geoware's decision, since it is clearly stated in the Guidelines, but I am perplexed why the Ranger thought it necessary to escelate the situation by contacting the GSA. It appears that Cav Scout did the responsible thing and Archived the Listing immediately after receiving the request from the Ranger? The fact that the Ranger did not pursue legal action against Cav Scout, makes me question the motives behind this course of action. Sounds like more than one agenda going on here to me B)

 

Color me skeptical.

 

Makes me wonder too. For someone who seems to have devoted a lot of time to earthcaching lately and then turn around and have this done for something that Groundspeak would just archive the one cache for and not turn around and ban someone for good. There must be another agenda. Anyone else feel this way too?

Share this post


Link to post

I have done a few of Cav Scout's EC and found them very enjoyable. I hope that this ban will not stand and hope he is reinstated soon. May I suggest to Cav Scout that if you are reinstated, that you might want to take a some what slower pace at setting up your EC's, this would help to reduce errors and also the work load of Geoaware. Geoaware's workload for the state of Kentucky is now probably half what it once was. Come on Geoaware give the guy a break and he will give you one. Thanks Cav Scout and Geoaware for all the hard work you both do.

Edited by Turtle3863

Share this post


Link to post

I have done a few of Cav Scout's EC and found them very enjoyable. I hope that this ban will not stand and hope he is reinstated soon. May I suggest to Cav Scout that if you are reinstated, that you might want to take a some what slower pace at setting up your EC's, this would help to reduce errors and also the work load of Geoaware. Geoaware's workload for the state of Kentucky is now probably half what it once was. Come on Geoaware give the guy a break and he will give you one. Thanks Cav Scout and Geoaware for all the hard work you both do.

There is no need to slow down :ph34r: He's got help. Keep them coming.

Share this post


Link to post

Agree with geoaware's actions, sometimes it is needed, permission trumps just about everything

 

Joe

Share this post


Link to post

Agree with geoaware's actions, sometimes it is needed, permission trumps just about everything

 

Joe

 

I work in the field of environmental compliance and like it or not there will be occasions where you are truly forced to play the game “Get Out Your Check Book” or “Let’s Go To Court”. Remember these actions are brought about by some else’s either lack of common sense or respect for statutes and regulations. I would rather resolve violations through voluntary agreement than decree, but there are times you are just not given a choice…

Share this post


Link to post

What if they didn't know that they was breaking any rules as cavscout said in his post and the he archived it on his own when he found out that it was out of bounds. Why should he be ban from setting up anymore earthcaches. Is there more to the story? :lol:

 

It appears that they are trying to appease the same people who banned geocaching in National Forests.

 

It's very harsh, but understandable. When National Park authorities see how serious they are, perhaps they may allow more geocaches to be hidden there. There are a few already with explicit permission from what I understand.

Share this post


Link to post

Do you understand that Earthcaches are virtual and almost all the EC's in Parks are on existing trails and just require a photo and questions answered. Earthcaches and Geocaches are two different things. And Cav Scout is being banned from setting up Earthcaches.......

Edited by wishing_on_a_star

Share this post


Link to post

 

So my question is, am I banned or just suspened? For how long?

 

I enjoy doing this and miss setting up ECs for others to enjoy.

 

It looks like you got set loose again. Keep them coming. Someday I'd like to get to the eastern half of the country to find some.

Share this post


Link to post

We now know that permission is agressivly persued. What about the photos that are posted in the Earthcache discription? Has permission be given to use them?

I found two earthcaches using photos from a website that clearly states that all photos are copyrighted but may be used for personal use. Does this constitute personal use?

Two of my photos were also used for these two Earthcaches. The Earthcache creator never contacted me for permission to use them. Perhaps I should use the same photos to prove that I was there and claim a find. Unfortunatly me and my GPS aren't in that required photo.

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with ATmouse.

 

Putting an Earthcache or any other type of cache on personal property creates a liability issue as well. The land owner giving consent becomes liable should anyone become injured on their property. In today's litigious society the money involved in a personal injury settlement may be more than what your homeowner's policy covers. Poke an eyeball out on a branch? Slip, fall and suffer a brain or spinal cord injury? What are those worth? That's not something I'd want to risk.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a little confused so maybe you all could help me out. Earthcaches are submitted to Groundspeak and listed on Groundspeak. I assume Groundspeak enjoys the help of earthcache.org in helping develop new caches, but why does anyone outside of Groundspeak have a say in banning a cache or a cache placer from placing more caches? Now that I think of it, why do they have any say at all? Not trying to throw gas on the fire, just really interested in how it all developed into working this way. :huh:

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a little confused so maybe you all could help me out. Earthcaches are submitted to Groundspeak and listed on Groundspeak. I assume Groundspeak enjoys the help of earthcache.org in helping develop new caches, but why does anyone outside of Groundspeak have a say in banning a cache or a cache placer from placing more caches? Now that I think of it, why do they have any say at all? Not trying to throw gas on the fire, just really interested in how it all developed into working this way. :huh:

EarthCaches are submitted to earthcache.org (ie GSA) for approval then listed on geocaching.org. Groundspeak is just the listing tool.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a little confused so maybe you all could help me out. Earthcaches are submitted to Groundspeak and listed on Groundspeak. I assume Groundspeak enjoys the help of earthcache.org in helping develop new caches, but why does anyone outside of Groundspeak have a say in banning a cache or a cache placer from placing more caches? Now that I think of it, why do they have any say at all? Not trying to throw gas on the fire, just really interested in how it all developed into working this way. :huh:

EarthCaches are submitted to earthcache.org (ie GSA) for approval then listed on geocaching.org. Groundspeak is just the listing tool.

 

I'm aware of that. My question is why is earthcache.org delegated the responsibility of deciding listing/banning/etc.? Are they a division of Groundspeak? Do they hold some legal authority over cache listings? Even if they do have authority over listings, how did that authority become extended to a Groundspeak personal account? I'm wondering why an outside agency has any say in how and what Groundspeak lists. Again this not an attack/flame/angst aimed question. I'm curious is all. To me it seems as odd as asking the metal-workers lobby which geocoins we can make.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

×
×
  • Create New...