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60CSx compass arrow pointing wrong direction


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MY 60CSx has been acting a little weird as of late. Happened this weekend and last weekend. I calibrated the compass at the trailhead, and started caching, hit the first 4 caches and no issues. So I did the found and find next and the arrow is pointing in the opposite direction of the cache and as I walk forward the numbers are decreasing but the arrow is still pointed behind me. So I checked the map, and I was going in the right direction of the cache.

 

So I went and calibrated the compass and sure enough eveything was back on track. Now at times when I am caching I do not have the GPS in my hands all the time, it is sometimes clipped to my front pack strap with a carabiner. So the gps is on and vertical quite a bit.

 

Can that be causing the issue from carrying like that. I have never had an issue like this before and so far it has happened a couple of time. However in the past I have done the same thing and never experienced that before.

 

I did have an issue with red arrow vanishing and I fixed that with bending the clips on the battery out and putting a piece of foam in the compartment to keep everything firm. Thanks in advance.

 

Storm180

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I've had the same problem recently--having to recalibrate the compass before every cache. Check to make sure 'Lock on Road' is turned off. I did that but still had the problem. I've tried doing a hard reset of the unit (turn the unit on with ENTER and PAGE pressed). Don't know yet if that has fixed the problem, but it does seem to have restored the unit to its out-of-the-box state, including the 'Garmin' waypoint.

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Have any of the previous posters contacted Garmin directly, reported the problem, and asked if others have been having difficulty?

 

If you've just updated your firmware and something is happening much more frequently, wouldn't that be your first step?

 

I've updated like months ago and its just been the last two time caching I have experienced this. So it wasn't like a recent firmware upgrade but I did do one.

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Helloooooo.....Is anybody home?????

 

The compass is NOT the arrow......The compass is the ring.

 

Now,......knowing that,.... is it understandable why there are so many "Compass problems" described in this forum ?

 

Enough said....

 

No one said the compass was the arrow. The arrow sits inside the compass doesn't it? There for it is a compass issue and its on the compass screen also. A manual compass has a arrow doesn't it? No one above has posted they were having trouble with the ring of the compass. So I have no idea what you are complaining about MR COMPASS EXPERT.

Edited by storm180
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However the red arrow sits inside the compass ring. Isn't there an arrow on regular compasses also?

 

[Potty language and abusive language removed by moderator.]

 

To continue the same line of reasoning......Just because the Tour Director rides in a bus and points directions....that doesn't make "him" a bus.......does it?????

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However the red arrow sits inside the compass ring. Isn't there an arrow on regular compasses also?

 

[Potty language and abusive language removed by moderator.]

 

To continue the same line of reasoning......Just because the Tour Director rides in a bus and points directions....that doesn't make "him" a bus.......does it?????

 

Ok because you are so special the next time I address the red arrow inside the compass, I will call it the red arrow in that round circle on the pointing page of the 60CSX. I won't even mention the word compass because it obvioulsy upsets you.

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I'm as all the previous "posters" a 60CSx owner. My question (not to hijack this post) it this:

How often do you use the map to navigate to a cache? And is it a standard practice to do this?

I started out using only the map page to navigate and recently changed to using only the compass page. I'm finding that this works much better, with the exception of the issues mentioned earlier. I haven’t loaded any of the topographic maps yet so the compass is a better choice for me.

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However the red arrow sits inside the compass ring. Isn't there an arrow on regular compasses also?

 

[Potty language and abusive language removed by moderator.]

 

To continue the same line of reasoning......Just because the Tour Director rides in a bus and points directions....that doesn't make "him" a bus.......does it?????

Sorry, you have this all wrong. The arrow is an integral part of the compass, it is the part that is magnetized and points to magnetic north (on non-electronic versions). The outside ring just tells you where the arrow is pointing in relation to your direction of travel. Take away the arrow and there is no compass, take away the ring and you still have a crude compass in which you know where north is. You can't have a USEFUL compass without either part so this argument is rather POINTLESS <_<

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I'm as all the previous "posters" a 60CSx owner. My question (not to hijack this post) it this:

How often do you use the map to navigate to a cache? And is it a standard practice to do this?

I started out using only the map page to navigate and recently changed to using only the compass page. I'm finding that this works much better, with the exception of the issues mentioned earlier. I haven’t loaded any of the topographic maps yet so the compass is a better choice for me.

 

I bounce back and forth between the two. Sometimes the compass does well, at other times it seems that your locator on the map is better. But I find that I use the map more often when I am doing circles around GZ.

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I'm as all the previous "posters" a 60CSx owner. My question (not to hijack this post) it this:

How often do you use the map to navigate to a cache? And is it a standard practice to do this?

I started out using only the map page to navigate and recently changed to using only the compass page. I'm finding that this works much better, with the exception of the issues mentioned earlier. I haven’t loaded any of the topographic maps yet so the compass is a better choice for me.

 

I bounce back and forth between the two. Sometimes the compass does well, at other times it seems that your locator on the map is better. But I find that I use the map more often when I am doing circles around GZ.

 

I used to use the Compass page for caching but recently changed to the map page by adding two data fields, the "pointer" and the distance to destination. That way I get the best of both pages.

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Sorry, you have this all wrong. The arrow is an integral part of the compass, it is the part that is magnetized and points to magnetic north (on non-electronic versions). The outside ring just tells you where the arrow is pointing in relation to your direction of travel. Take away the arrow and there is no compass, take away the ring and you still have a crude compass in which you know where north is. You can't have a USEFUL compass without either part so this argument is rather POINTLESS :grin:

 

Hey, I like the "Pointless" ....! Good one....

 

I'll bet most of the people that don't understand the compass are directionally challenged people that use "Track Up" orientation instead of "North Up".

 

Here are some things that you can prove to/for yourselves.

The Red Arrow on your GPS compass is NOT an integral part of that compass. (Yes, I understand the above poster was talking about a magnetic compass). On your GPS, the Red Arrow is a separate and distinct tool. It is either a Bearing Pointer or a Course Pointer, depending on the user's preferences/settings.

If you are not navigating, (to a Go To point) ....notice....you don't have a Red Arrow at all...but the compass still works fine!

 

NOT having a red arrow has absolutely NO effect on the compass. NONE. NADA

The compass is the Ring with NSEW. You can have it on or turn it off. Hold the GPS screen flat and level and determine the direction by the relationship of the ring to the "fixed" line at the top of the screen.

 

Until you get to where you understand how each works and that they both work independently, try these settings. Later , you can vary them and start noting the differences.

 

Use North Up map orientation

Use Bearing Pointer instead of Course (BP will point to the GoTo point during Navigation)

Realistically you should leave the compass turned off except when you need to take a reading. Turn it on, Calibrate it and take a reading. (then turn it back off)

Only determine Compass direction when STANDING STILL with GPS held flat & Level and only pay attention to the RING and line at the top of the screen. (ignore the red pointer)

Lastly....

Only pay attention to the Bearing pointer when you are MOVING, because it has to detect a direction of movement to know where to point.

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Hey, I like the "Pointless" ....! Good one....

 

I'll bet most of the people that don't understand the compass are directionally challenged people that use "Track Up" orientation instead of "North Up".

 

Here are some things that you can prove to/for yourselves.

The Red Arrow on your GPS compass is NOT an integral part of that compass. (Yes, I understand the above poster was talking about a magnetic compass). On your GPS, the Red Arrow is a separate and distinct tool. It is either a Bearing Pointer or a Course Pointer, depending on the user's preferences/settings.

If you are not navigating, (to a Go To point) ....notice....you don't have a Red Arrow at all...but the compass still works fine!

 

NOT having a red arrow has absolutely NO effect on the compass. NONE. NADA

The compass is the Ring with NSEW. You can have it on or turn it off. Hold the GPS screen flat and level and determine the direction by the relationship of the ring to the "fixed" line at the top of the screen.

 

Until you get to where you understand how each works and that they both work independently, try these settings. Later , you can vary them and start noting the differences.

 

Use North Up map orientation

Use Bearing Pointer instead of Course (BP will point to the GoTo point during Navigation)

Realistically you should leave the compass turned off except when you need to take a reading. Turn it on, Calibrate it and take a reading. (then turn it back off)

Only determine Compass direction when STANDING STILL with GPS held flat & Level and only pay attention to the RING and line at the top of the screen. (ignore the red pointer)

Lastly....

Only pay attention to the Bearing pointer when you are MOVING, because it has to detect a direction of movement to know where to point.

 

The question a lot of people will say is WHY take all that extra time and do all that extra stuff when I can keep everything on and walk right to the cache. Seems like the easiest way to do it. If I wanted to geocache in your method I would say the hell with the gps and take my paper maps, compass, and ruler out to the woods and do it that way.

 

Storm180

Edited by storm180
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I'm as all the previous "posters" a 60CSx owner. My question (not to hijack this post) it this:

How often do you use the map to navigate to a cache? And is it a standard practice to do this?

I started out using only the map page to navigate and recently changed to using only the compass page. I'm finding that this works much better, with the exception of the issues mentioned earlier. I haven’t loaded any of the topographic maps yet so the compass is a better choice for me.

 

I use the compass screen about 90 percent of the time and will flip to the map every now and them. Most geocachers I know rely on compass screen. In fact for those with non mapping units that's all they have.

 

 

P.S. Doesn't anybody know how to quote posts around here?

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I'll bet most of the people that don't understand the compass are directionally challenged people that use "Track Up" orientation instead of "North Up".
:rolleyes: Maybe instead of being directionally challenged, they just prefer to do things the easy way instead of the hard way.

 

Until you get to where you understand how each works and that they both work independently, try these settings. Later , you can vary them and start noting the differences.

 

Use North Up map orientation

A personal bias which has no relevance to a compass discussion.

 

Realistically you should leave the compass turned off except when you need to take a reading. Turn it on, Calibrate it and take a reading. (then turn it back off)

Only determine Compass direction when STANDING STILL with GPS held flat & Level

For the most part not bad advice, until you get to this bit…
and only pay attention to the RING and line at the top of the screen. (ignore the red pointer)
The ring and line tell you only what direction the unit is pointing. It tells you nothing about the direction to the point you are navigating to. That’s exactly and entirely what the red pointer is for! The compass (ring and line) tells you what direction you are going; the red pointer is supposed to tell you what direction you need to go. You seem to know that, so I guess the reason you wrote the preceding is because you have a misconception about this:
Only pay attention to the Bearing pointer when you are MOVING, because it has to detect a direction of movement to know where to point.

For units that have a magnetic compass (which is what you’re talking about, since you mention calibration) this is simply incorrect. One of the greatest benefits of the integrated magnetic compass is to be able to stand in one place and have it point toward a waypoint. I do this a lot when hiking, and it does work. Your statement would be true of models without the magnetic compass, but not of those that have it.

 

Considering that you got such a basic fact wrong, maybe you ought to reconsider the sneering, condescending, pontificating, I’m-an-expert-and-the-rest-of-you-are-morons tone that seems typical of your posts, and try just politely helping people. Obviously you've been a member here a long time. Maybe it’s time for you to reread the posting guidelines.

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Considering that you got such a basic fact wrong, maybe you ought to reconsider the sneering, condescending, pontificating, I’m-an-expert-and-the-rest-of-you-are-morons tone that seems typical of your posts, and try just politely helping people. Obviously you've been a member here a long time. Maybe it’s time for you to reread the posting guidelines.

 

Thank you..Bravo!!!!

Edited by storm180
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I'll bet most of the people that don't understand the compass are directionally challenged people that use "Track Up" orientation instead of "North Up".
:rolleyes: Maybe instead of being directionally challenged, they just prefer to do things the easy way instead of the hard way.

 

Until you get to where you understand how each works and that they both work independently, try these settings. Later , you can vary them and start noting the differences.

 

Use North Up map orientation

A personal bias which has no relevance to a compass discussion.

 

Realistically you should leave the compass turned off except when you need to take a reading. Turn it on, Calibrate it and take a reading. (then turn it back off)

Only determine Compass direction when STANDING STILL with GPS held flat & Level

For the most part not bad advice, until you get to this bit…
and only pay attention to the RING and line at the top of the screen. (ignore the red pointer)
The ring and line tell you only what direction the unit is pointing. It tells you nothing about the direction to the point you are navigating to. That’s exactly and entirely what the red pointer is for! The compass (ring and line) tells you what direction you are going; the red pointer is supposed to tell you what direction you need to go. You seem to know that, so I guess the reason you wrote the preceding is because you have a misconception about this:
Only pay attention to the Bearing pointer when you are MOVING, because it has to detect a direction of movement to know where to point.

For units that have a magnetic compass (which is what you’re talking about, since you mention calibration) this is simply incorrect. One of the greatest benefits of the integrated magnetic compass is to be able to stand in one place and have it point toward a waypoint. I do this a lot when hiking, and it does work. Your statement would be true of models without the magnetic compass, but not of those that have it.

 

Considering that you got such a basic fact wrong, maybe you ought to reconsider the sneering, condescending, pontificating, I’m-an-expert-and-the-rest-of-you-are-morons tone that seems typical of your posts, and try just politely helping people. Obviously you've been a member here a long time. Maybe it’s time for you to reread the posting guidelines.

 

Until you got to the last two condecending paragraphs, we both are saying the same thing.

 

1.The ring and mark are the compass and show the direction the unit is pointing.

2. The red pointer points the direction to the GoTo point independent from the compass

Until a user gets those two facts straight in their head, using settings other than those I mentioned above really confuse the issue. That's also the reason I suggested STARTING with those and then varying and noting any differences.

By doing so, what the user is doing, is essentially working one step at a time to learn their unit, where they actually understand what their unit is "telling" them. (Essentially in the beginning, the user would be simulating the actions of a non compass model but still have the benefit of having the compass available)

 

Your comments about magnetic vs non magnetic units are correct. There are other acceptable settings combinations.You understand that..... but most people apparently do not. The results are the numerous posts on "compass problems" . Again, that is specifically the reason to START with the suggested settings.

 

I apologize that I so ineloquently wound your spring.

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2. The red pointer points the direction to the GoTo point independent from the compass

Not really. The arrow is not independent from the compass. When the compass is turned on, the unit has to use a combination of current GPS location, and information from the compass in order to properly orient the pointer on the screen. If you stand in place, and turn the unit left or right, the two should turn (approximately) in tandem. After all, when the bearing to your next waypoint is calculated, that bearing is meaningless unless it's oriented to the compass ring. This is why, when the compass is turned on, the arrow will continue to point in the right direction regardless of whether or not the unit is pointing in the direction of travel, but it will not when the compass is turned off.

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Wow this thread had totally exploded completely off topic. It went from the red arrow pointing the wrong way to the workings of a compass to how to work a compass properly.

 

Lets try to get back on topic. Anyone else having the issue with the arrow pointing the direct opposite way it should while going to a cache? Also if anyone noticed this before they upgraded to latest firmware. For me it has never happened prior to the firmware update.

 

Storm180

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Wow this thread had totally exploded completely off topic. It went from the red arrow pointing the wrong way to the workings of a compass to how to work a compass properly.

 

Lets try to get back on topic. Anyone else having the issue with the arrow pointing the direct opposite way it should while going to a cache? Also if anyone noticed this before they upgraded to latest firmware. For me it has never happened prior to the firmware update.

I can explain the side track. There have been endless discussions started by a person who compares the arrow on a GPS with a magnetic compass and the arrow without a magnetic compass. The arrows point differently of course and the person wrongly blames the magnetic compass for messing up. Your instance is totally different because you are walking towards the cache and this is the case where all GPS bearing arrows should agree, magnetic or not.

 

Both the vertical position and the clip are suspects. Are the GPS clip or combiner magnetic? The calibration can filter the effects of magnetic materials because the the calibration finds the poles by noting the peaks on the sensors. Are you sure this only happened after a FW upgrade? Coincidences happen. I guess I should upgrade my GPS to see what happens.

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Wow this thread had totally exploded completely off topic. It went from the red arrow pointing the wrong way to the workings of a compass to how to work a compass properly.

 

Lets try to get back on topic. Anyone else having the issue with the arrow pointing the direct opposite way it should while going to a cache? Also if anyone noticed this before they upgraded to latest firmware. For me it has never happened prior to the firmware update.

I can explain the side track. There have been endless discussions started by a person who compares the arrow on a GPS with a magnetic compass and the arrow without a magnetic compass. The arrows point differently of course and the person wrongly blames the magnetic compass for messing up. Your instance is totally different because you are walking towards the cache and this is the case where all GPS bearing arrows should agree, magnetic or not.

 

Both the vertical position and the clip are suspects. Are the GPS clip or combiner magnetic? The calibration can filter the effects of magnetic materials because the the calibration finds the poles by noting the peaks on the sensors. Are you sure this only happened after a FW upgrade? Coincidences happen. I guess I should upgrade my GPS to see what happens.

 

The carabiner clip is the one that is furnished by garmin and it is not magnetic. I can honetly say I have never experienced it point the opposite direction of the cache prior to the firmware update which I recently did less than a month or so ago. I used it quite frequently prior to that and have never seen it act like that before. As soon as I recalibrate its back to normal. It doesn't happen all the time but it is happening. I am keeping a log of how many times it does happen and see if the frequency increases. So far I am at 2 times, so we shall see.

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Finally heard back from Garmin, basically they told me nothing I did not already know.

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I will be happy to help you with this. Have you switched locations since the last time you acquired? If so, you will want to do a NEW LOCATION. From the satellite status page, if you select the MENU button, you will have a choice for New Location. Select this and press enter. Next select Automatic, and press enter. Let the unit sit for about 10-15 minutes, and then see if it picks up satellites easier.

 

As far as the compass, you will want to calibrate this every time you use the unit.

 

Oh well, hopefully the next update will be out soon :blink:

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Finally heard back from Garmin, basically they told me nothing I did not already know.

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I will be happy to help you with this. Have you switched locations since the last time you acquired? If so, you will want to do a NEW LOCATION. From the satellite status page, if you select the MENU button, you will have a choice for New Location. Select this and press enter. Next select Automatic, and press enter. Let the unit sit for about 10-15 minutes, and then see if it picks up satellites easier.

 

As far as the compass, you will want to calibrate this every time you use the unit.

 

Oh well, hopefully the next update will be out soon :blink:

 

Wow is all I have to say. I am so sick of all the companies who I have dealt with tech support always send me generic answers. I think they are pre-cut and paste ready responses that are pre determined by another piece of software from keywords.

 

I tested this theroy with magellan about my explorist 600, a question about the waas not working any more. I was very specific that the issue was WAAS. On the bottom of my email I put a list of keywords seperated with commas and my response from them was absolutely ridiculous. WAAS was never mentioned or the issue of the firmware and basically gave me instructions for aquiring the sattelite after I hard reset the unit.

 

Maybe one out of a hundred may actually read the problem but I think most do not or don't understand. Not that I am bashing on magellan, but I have done this to other technical support systems and have gotten similiar responses no where close to what my issue was.

 

Storm180

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I resent a email back to Garmin and stated that I needed to go back to version 3.50 since all my problems started with this last update. They sent me the download and my 60CSx is back to normal. The sats lock on just as fast as before and I am not forever having to recalibrate the compass.

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If anyone else wants to go back to 3.50...

 

Version 3.50 Right Here!

 

Edit:

 

Hey Garmin do you still visit these forums?

 

If so...

 

I just dropped back to version 3.50 and all the oddities went away. You may have gotten a little to robust with your compass tweaks.

 

Problems I was having with 3.60

 

1. Compass was very tough to calibrate.

2. Compass erratic with GPS sitting in one spot.

3. Map pointer pointing the wrong way.

4. Compass bearing pointer pointing the wrong way.

 

Kevin

 

Note: It's a shame a helpful topic got spammed... :o

Edited by OzzieSan
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I had this problem about two months ago when I first got my 60Cx - the map would have the correct orientation to the cache but the GOTO page would have no arrow. I had changed batteries and must have knocked the microcard loose in its holder. Tried the hard reset, the upgrade, more new batteries - no help.

Finally noticed the card was loose, set the card in the holder, moved the little metal keeper over to hold it in, put in new batteries and it has been fine since.

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I had this problem about two months ago when I first got my 60Cx - the map would have the correct orientation to the cache but the GOTO page would have no arrow. I had changed batteries and must have knocked the microcard loose in its holder. Tried the hard reset, the upgrade, more new batteries - no help.

Finally noticed the card was loose, set the card in the holder, moved the little metal keeper over to hold it in, put in new batteries and it has been fine since.

 

Actually the arrow disappearing was a known problem in the 60CSx and it turned out to be a power issue in regards to the clips that hold the battery in place. They needed to be bent out, so the battery wouldn't lose contact, and if it did the arrow would disappear.

 

The fix was the bend the terminal contacts out a bit and throw a piece of foam on top of the batteries and put the back of the battery case back on. Holds the batteries really tight. Not sure if the SD issue had anything to do with the arrow disappearing but defintely was confirmed the arrow disappearing was a power issue with the contacts.

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I've also had experience with the arrow pointing backwards while walking toward the cache. I've never upgraded the version on my Garmin 60CSx, so I'm sure it's not an issue with 3.60 in my case. Recalibrating the compass seems to fix the problem for a few days before the arrow goes haywire again. This is my first GPS, so I just figured the compass had to be calibrated once in a while. Maybe not. Either way, it didn't seem like a huge deal, but it's nice to know how helpful the Garmin tech department can be when you have questions.

 

BTW...

 

I'm not a regular on these forums... and can you blame me? Sheesh. What a thread!

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Unless I've changed the batteries or moved a long distance, I haven't needed to recalibrate everyday. Not a bad idea though. I'm sure the accurracy would be better by calibrating more often. It's still weird though when the compass (actually the bearing pointer, so as not to offend anyone) goes from working perfectly well, then suddenly, flips around and does a 180. Again, not a huge issue. Just curious.

Edited by Shelleyski
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I've never upgraded the version on my Garmin 60CSx, so I'm sure it's not an issue with 3.60 in my case.
How about saying what version you do have? That information could be helpful in getting a better handle on this issue. To find the version you have: MENU>MENU>Setup>System>MENU>Software Version
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I did notice though the issue of the "red pointer" pointing the opposite way never happens to when I am selecting from the list of geocaches only when I select found and then find next have I ever seen the issue come up. Anyone else?

I never use the "find next" option, because the next cache doesn't get added to the Recent Waypoints list. After hitting found, I just go back to the Find menu and hit the Geocache button again. Never had the "backwards arrow" problem.

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I did notice though the issue of the "red pointer" pointing the opposite way never happens to when I am selecting from the list of geocaches only when I select found and then find next have I ever seen the issue come up. Anyone else?

I never use the "find next" option, because the next cache doesn't get added to the Recent Waypoints list. After hitting found, I just go back to the Find menu and hit the Geocache button again. Never had the "backwards arrow" problem.

 

I've never used "find next". Because often times my next is not the GPSr's next.

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OK,,, I gave the make sure the card is inserted and metal clip secure and the bend out the tabs for the batteries trick to day... Still not working...

 

Which issue did you have? Did you have your pointer disappear or did it point backwards on your way to a cache?

 

The above works for "bend out the clips" supposively only fixes the arrow from disappearing when you are looking for the cache. You might want to take a piece of foam and put it on top of the batteries before you close up your battery case also.

 

As for the SD card thing, the only thing I know what happens if that slips, you lose your maps and are left only with the base map.

 

So your unit that you purchased in January 2008 which firmware is currently on it right now?

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