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Gerald

Getaway Mag Geocaching Article

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The April 08 Getaway travel mag page 99 has an article titled "Geocaching for beginners". On reading it I started to wonder where this fits in. Caches containing items such as knives and burying caches is mentioned. None of which is allowed as per Groundspeak Geocaching. No mention is made of Geocaching.com rather that is about Mitsubishi/Getaway Geocaching day @ R280 entry per team. Any comments.

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They obviously got their info many years ago and without following up on it probably made up the story. Reporters are known to get the story wrong at times. It is now unfortunate that many people might just go out and start geocaching the wrong way. At least it is up to the guys who are in this for a while to get them in the right direction. Maybe our man on the button (Fish Eagle) can write a response article to them highlighting the basic rules and regulations. The people who started out wrong could them see the err of their ways in the next issue.

 

Then again the Mitsubisi/Getaway event will be a sponsored event and them caches will be for the entrants only I guess. So prizes may possibly include knives sponsored for the event.

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Not to stir the pot here...

 

But I wonder about those Mazda event caches up in Gauteng, where it seems really commercialized for geocaching. Is this not part of the Mitsubisi/Getaway thing? Perhaps more caution needs to be given for those types of event caches, which I feel are not really in the theme of geocaching.

 

*Sorry if I offend anyone with that comment. Best intentions inteded. ;)

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I'm not at all sure that I approve of these "geocaching" competitions. I think the term has been misappropriated, because racing to win a prize is not what geocaching is about, in my book. Cape Storm did something similar at one time, not sure if they still do but I found it a little distasteful at the time. And it would be nice if they got the datum format correct. Call me grumpy!

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Are any of them caches listed on Geocaching.com? I didn't buy the magazine just browsed through it at the shop.

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At the bottom of page 99 it says, details - page 98 opposite; but that is just one big advert for shock absorbers. Where can we get the info on entering?

 

The fee is not totally unreasonable but if it is sponsored then I would like to know what do the sponsors pay for? Free breakfast, coffee, braaivleis, expensive and I mean really expensive cars/bakkies as prizes?

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At the bottom of page 99 it says, details - page 98 opposite; but that is just one big advert for shock absorbers. Where can we get the info on entering?

 

The fee is not totally unreasonable but if it is sponsored then I would like to know what do the sponsors pay for? Free breakfast, coffee, braaivleis, expensive and I mean really expensive cars/bakkies as prizes?

 

The ad is actually on a left page about 8 pages further on - guess the editor was to busy trying to figure out the co-ords datum.

 

My concern was that things done wrongly can adversly effect official Geocaching and is the word "Geocaching" not part of the Groundspeak Geocaching registered trademark?

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Ad is on page 112 and it looks like it is official for it is on Geocaching listed as the Event.

 

For that entrance fee of R280,00 = only two adults, My children will be another R100,00 added. Get 3 x Getaway magazine = R81,00 off, morning and afternoon snacks and refreshments.

 

Organized by CrystalFairy is what gives it credibility for me. :unsure:

 

Will attend, know where we will end up in the race!

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At the bottom of page 99 it says, details - page 98 opposite; but that is just one big advert for shock absorbers. Where can we get the info on entering?

 

The fee is not totally unreasonable but if it is sponsored then I would like to know what do the sponsors pay for? Free breakfast, coffee, braaivleis, expensive and I mean really expensive cars/bakkies as prizes?

 

The ad is actually on a left page about 8 pages further on - guess the editor was to busy trying to figure out the co-ords datum.

 

My concern was that things done wrongly can adversly effect official Geocaching and is the word "Geocaching" not part of the Groundspeak Geocaching registered trademark?

 

I am interested in picking this apart some more. Is this an official geocache thing? Because when you report a cache here it plainly says READ FIRST: This is a free service. Only caches of a non-commercial nature can be posted through this site. If you wish to create a commercial cache or promotion, please contact us first. Caches perceived of a commercial nature will not be published.

 

So my assumption is that GC HQ has given explicit authorization for this?

Ad is on page 112 and it looks like it is official for it is on Geocaching listed as the Event.

 

For that entrance fee of R280,00 = only two adults, My children will be another R100,00 added. Get 3 x Getaway magazine = R81,00 off, morning and afternoon snacks and refreshments.

 

Organized by CrystalFairy is what gives it credibility for me. :lol:

 

Will attend, know where we will end up in the race!

 

Prices seem high. Who gets the money? If it is sponsored, than why pay at all. Or should you not find a company like Engen, Shell or Sasol to "sponsor" some petrol for the entrants? :unsure:

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Sorry but Cache Fan will not attend this event, always been in favours for Cristal Fairy's events which we enjoyed, but this one starts to go the wrong way and get too commercrcial now, sorry.

 

Was thinking a lot since the listing appreared, but that is the verdict.

 

Will miss this one unless changed to go back to basics and to the roots of GC.

 

Greetings from Cache Fqn

 

P.S.: Will not post any of my concerns on the listing as the forum should be sufficient.

 

PP. S.: I really look forward to the traditional GC event as planned by RedGlode on the 20.04., a real event to socialise without compete, just to chat and meet.

 

Cache Fan's 2c worth

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A bit of input from the cache reviewer who published the listing in question...

 

I originally had some concerns as well, asked the following of Crystal Fairy:

 

Can you tell me a little more? I don't want to catch grief later about publishing an event that turns out to be a commercial promotion for Mitsu and/or is a car rally open to the general public rather than an event for geocachers by geocachers.

 

The reply (with unrelated "stuff" edited out) satisfied me:

 

Okay.. The only thing Mitsubishi are bringing to the table is the prizes and the start venue.. Nothing else..

 

Its for geocachers and geocacher wanna-be's (we always like geocachers to bring along non-geocachers to these events as it gets them interested and then they become geocachers..)

 

Would love one day to be able to hold a MEGA Event in South Africa, but we need more cachers...

 

So not a commercial promotion.. No car rallys.. Lots of new caches.. Food at the end... Very similar to our events in the past but always with new twists.. Hope that allays your fears...

 

So please approach it with an open mind, but let your new reviewer, Fish Eagle, know if the old one screwed up. :unsure:

 

Cheers,

 

~erik~

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However you look at it the "Keepers of the Cache (2008 Geocaching Event)" is a commercial event. The Getaway mag ad is a commercial add paid for by Mitsu/Getaway and has no reference to Groundspeak Geocaching yet at the same time/place is an event cache for Geocaching which is meant to be not for commercial gain etc....

 

We must be careful not to prostitute the spirit of Geocaching and project an incorrect picture of what it is about to the general (muggle) public - they will start caching for all the wrong reasons. I feel that the story that the reveiwer read may have changed a bit since then.

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Hi Everyone

 

I'd like to set the record straight here before this gets way out of hand...

 

1) The article in the magazine was not even shown to us before it was published. There are TWO sets of articles in the magazine.. The one about geocaching with their three example caches we saw when we purchased the magazine and were HORRIFIED when we read the article.. Its written awfully, and I have no idea where they got the content from as we certainly never gave them any of it (especially about the knives and jewellery).. If you also look at the caches listed they refer to an area of 1km x 1km in some of them and knew nothing about these or what is in the containers or even where they are.

 

2) The second article about the event we saw about 1 week before the magazine came out and showed them some mistakes and were told it had already gone to press and could not change it..

 

3) About the event. It is a "geocaching event" .. Its going to be like all our past events we have held. There are three sponsors to the event "Mitsubishi", "MapIT" and "GetAway". Each of them are sponsoring the containers, the log books, and most of the goodies in the caches as well as the food on the day before and after the event as well as a 3 month subscription to GetAway or WegBreek Magazine. For those who want to know the details, you are welcome to contact me. It works out there is a surplus of R10 per team of 2, R20 per team of 3 and R30 per team of 4. This doesn't even come close to covering the costs of the goodies we are adding and the 3 tanks of Disel we use in setting up the event (R1800). So we will leave you with the following.. Those who want to participate, we are sure you will have a ball of a time, and for those of you who think its "rigged", you are not being forced to attend and you may freely do the published caches after the event in your own time for FREE.

 

The two main points of the event are

a) socialisation - to get cachers together before and after the event to chat, tell stories, swap TB's and Coins etc.

:unsure: introduce a whole new market of people out there with GPS's to the sport of geocaching..

 

GetAway Magazine was trying to promote the sport of geocaching to their readers, but they certainly didn't come to us for the content of the article. I am meeting with them on Monday morning and will allay all our (and your) concerns about the articles published...

 

We hope this allays all your fears and hope to see you at the event on the 31st May.

 

Sincerely

CrystalFairy

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I read the article and someone had his facts completely wrong way around. This is not geocaching at all. The auditors should correct themselves in the next issue.

 

We did not plan to attend the event but after reading this article we will attend and show them what it is about. It is no good to run away from a problem. Maybe this is the chance to set the record straight.

 

There is only one concern and that is that a photo will be taken at the event and this photo will be published in the very same magazine. I will not be associated with that photo for this magazine. I do geocaching for my pleasure and I will not be associated with anything else.

 

Guys let us all attend the event and show the muggles that we are not hooligans stashing knifes away in buried treasures. I think the article will cause a lot of people to visit and we must be in numbers to tell them what it is about. Only my 2 cents worth.

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Bought the new Getaway Magazine yesterday and am still concerned as nowhere is there any mention of geocaching.com.

The article was awful and strangely enough nowhere on the page was there any hint as to who the writer may be.

Sadly, with a full page ad for the Event (further on in the magazine it is also mentioned along with other upcoming Getaway events) and bookings to be made through an e-mail address supplied by them, it is made to look like a Getaway Event, in other words commercial.

Edited by cownchicken

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Prices seem high. Who gets the money? If it is sponsored, than why pay at all. Or should you not find a company like Engen, Shell or Sasol to "sponsor" some petrol for the entrants? :ph34r:

 

Unfortunately, the South African fuel industry is still heavily regulated by Government, and it is illegal to discount the price of petrol - witness Raymond Ackerman's failed attempts to sell petrol at a reduced price at Pick 'n Pay outlets. Sponsoring even a tankful of petrol would amount to discounting the price - as an employee of a major oil company, even I am not entitled to a free allowance. Perhaps I should rather siwtch to working for a financial institution, where I would at least get preferential home loan rates!! :laughing:

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i think that perhaps crystal Fairy has come in for too much stick.

i probably would not attend his events (even if I was in the country :) ) as its a bit steep for me costwise, but i think his motivation behind the events and getting sponsorship etc is to try and grow the sport in the country, and who could complain about such a thing? Big up to Crstal Fairy i say, for putting in so much effort!

 

Also, some people like to cache for fun and not compete, but some cachers love to race around be better/faster than others (witness the continual race for FTFs amongst much of the community)

I attended a race event (geoteering) hosted by Matata a while back, and enjoyed running all over the place to beat all the other competitors ( for a change)

 

i also think cape storms racing thing was a good idea, and had no issues with that - datum formats aside!)

 

I of couse havent seen the article, and do find it a bit odd it doesn't mention geocaching. I am sure I saw a similar article in some magazine before I left SA (I think knives were mentioned) but the caches and cachers theye refered to were all USA based, so looks like there is some plagiarism going on somewhere!

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This issue generates many mixed emotions. I've bought the magazine but have not looked at the details. My first thought was also that it smacked of commercialisation - but then it seems as if the whole world is cannot survive without commercialisation these days. Mountainbiking has also evolved from purely fun towards the commercial - maybe one cannot survive without the other... Even the GC website is getting involved in it.

 

Mr pooks thinks the event has a commercial bent, mrs pooks thinks the opposite...

 

The car company, GPS company and the magazine are definitely getting mileage out of this AND they are putting mileage into this. No harm in that, but the GC listing service has also been roped in, where it is clearly stated (and generally felt) that there should be no commercial interest.

 

All cuedos to Crystalfairy - you have made huge contributions to the game (I think your mystery caches are superb, even though they are out of our reach).

 

Sorry, I haven't been able to offer a clear opinion to the debate!

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Just want to state that I have nothing against the efforts of CF for developing GC in SA, just wanted to stir some healthy debate on the topic so that things in future might not get out of control...

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I'm probably going to take a lot of flak for my comment, but hey, I'm sure we are all adults here.

 

It boils down to the following; Sponsors enable event organisers to host events. Without sponsors, there will be no events of this type/kind.

 

I am aware of the fact that a lot of cachers do not like the running around at competing events and I do respect that. I, myself, and Saphira; we like a bit of healthy competition amongst like minded people and hence we support competing events, but having organised a competing event ourselves, we know the effort and capital that goes into organising a competing event and I can tell you, without sponsors, there will be no events.

 

And yes; our event might not have been published in a magazine, but I assure you, if you take it down to nuts and bolts, you can call the NOLY event commercial as well. For one, the Sir Thomas Cullinan restaurant got fantastic advertising, and even supplied food which had to be paid for. For everyone who sponsored a prize, that was advertising. They might not have paid (money) for it, but sponsoring a prize boils down to paying for airtime, if not a mention on the site, a definate mention on the event day.

 

So I'll leave you with this thought; Let ye who have organised a competing event cast the first stone.

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The problem lies not with sponsors getting a mention on the cache site/page or at the Event itself, but with geocaching.com not getting a mention anywhere in the article or on the full page colour ad in the Getaway magazine. Sadly, the feeling one gets from the ad is that this Event has nothing to do at all with geocaching.com or for that matter, CrystalFairy, and so seems totally commercial. As a matter of interest does the article and ad appear in the WegBreek?

Edited by cownchicken

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Another question: Why does one need to win cellphones, GPS's etc.? Doesn't the satisfaction of winning mean anything?

Discombob held a pub quiz evening last year where prizes were donated by fellow cachers. The winners happily went home with chocolates, bottles of wine and Maps for Africa (that one donated by Vespax.) etc.

And the satisfaction of winning.

Maybe Cape Town just isn't as money orientated as up north.

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I've participated in competitive and non-competitive events before. I've also attended competitive events as a competitor and a non-competitor (depending on the team I've joined).

 

I've enjoyed all the events and appreciate the effort put in by the event hosts. I agree that an event must take up lots of time and money - a proper cache container alone costs R40. It changes the concept of a cacher placing a cache here and there every so many months to support the sport. So I've paid the event fee gladly to support the effort put in to host the event - knowing that the hosts are probably not pocketing any of it.

 

I also sympathise with cachers who end up paying lots of money to make caching a family activity at the going rate of events. ;)

 

So I guess I'll just keep on doing as I please... sometimes attending events just for fun, sometimes attending to compete in a friendly manner with other cacher-friends I've met through other events, or sometimes finding the published caches after an event for free.

 

Regarding the article - I've noticed a quarter page advertisement in the 'Wegbreek' about the event, and since I am aware of the event, I put two and two together that they were in fact advertising the event (since they are sponsors of it) - my father, however, pointed the ad out to me, saying "Look, here's an ad about an event hosted that must be a lot like geocaching", so because geocaching.com was not mentioned (and the article was in Afrikaans), he did not even link the two together.

 

I reckon Getaway went ahead to publish something without consulting the right people about it and therefore they will need to rectify it in some way. I am so disappointed about this whole thing. I say that the editor should get his/her journalist in and have a chat about this article's research. :-)

 

Hope to see you all at the event. ;)

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When I started this thread I had absolutely no idea that there was any connection between the article and advert in Getaway and Geocaching.com and the game I played for fun and the reward of finding a cache, no matter how insignificant it is. I am a rural member and will never easily find 1000's. Like many I also "compete" for the priviledge of a FTF. And the prize I win - writing FTF on the log. We have all signed up to play the same game under the same Groundspeak rules, not the least of which is "No commercialism" which we all accepted on joining. Like CF I do everything to grow caching in my area as that leads to more hides and so the game grows. I am concerned about the tacit approval of the commercial aspects of this event by some participants. As to casting a stone - yes I have organised an event - "The North of the Tugela Get-together" last year and it was a huge success with many cachers travelling 100's of km to be there. The temptation to attend - a rumour of a few new caches that may have been hidden. In this cash and value driven society geocaching is a breath of fresh air - lets keep it that way.

Edited by Gerald

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Hey I suppose I may no longer say "Tupper-ware" and rather refer to it as a lunch box from now on. One that I found with my Gar... ooops GPS unit. Driving in my Op... er car. Can't advertise anything anymore for fear of commercializations....

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I see the event is now removed from the listings. But this is my view point. Life is about choices. You have the choice to attend or not to attend, no one will drag you there kicking and screaming. Only you decide. There is caches out there that grieve me but I turn around from them and ignore them. Maybe I hate them but others enjoy them. But it is still my choice. To me the event is just the beginning, ok now it is the end.

 

One must try to see the positives and not focus on the negatives. The positive is that geo caching is not that great in South Africa. We are a handful of people doing caches. The magazine could open a new world for the many out there that is sitting in front of the television and wondering what life can bring to them. This event could have resulted in greater number of cachers.

 

I do not care if geocaching.com do not appear in the ad or article. When people arrives at the location they will realise who geocaching.com is and what they stand for. Geocachers should attend this function and through their attitude they sell the sport. The magazine or Mitshibushi do not sell the sport. It is the actual people that forms geocaching.

 

I still believe that the article is relevant. The article is trying to explain geocaching but it never reaches the goal. Let us assume that I am a newbie and I read this article. I still won’t have a clue what to do and what not to do. My next step will be to visit the event and to talk to the guys that have done it and they will have the influence to make me interested or not. Just the fact that geocaching.com was not mentioned will emphasize in my mind that this is a non commercialized sport. If I arrive at this event and I find hooligans hiding knifes and they are all crazy people then I will not be interested in geocaching. As a newbie I will discover the rules at this event and where I can find the waypoints and there I will discover that a place like geocaching.com exists. Only geocachers can sell the sport but again you need a platform to do it.

 

I believe we are missing an opportunity to get growth in the geocaching sport. How do you develop something if it is hidden away from the public? If you place an ad then it is seen as commercializing the sport. If you mention geocaching.com then it is a commercial ad for them. Mitshibushi is the sponsor and yes I have no pain with their name – I will not rush out tomorrow and buy their products. I go their to enjoy caching with my family. About 50% of the caches in South Africa is commercial in one way or another. To visit a nature reserve can be seen as a commercial advert, but in South Africa it is a reality that everything you must pay for or else skip them. It is my choice to pay R150 to enter a nature reserve or not. To me this it is only the way to find more caches and the money I pay is for the pleasure and the luxury of personnel and maintenance of the roads and fences. Without the R150 there will be no nature reserve, caches or enjoyment or family time.

 

The bottom line is that geocaching is stagnating and it is not growing. Sometimes you must use innovation and “out of the box” thinking to get the public interested. Unfortunately with innovation resistance will be felt among the conservatives but innovation does break the conventional rules. This was innovation and it could have been enjoyable.

 

Ok, this is my view and there is people out there who feels the opposite and we can agree to disagree. If the event is taking place without geocaching.com then it will be a sad day. Then they will loose. But I will still be there and I will still tell people about the sport and I hope that I am not alone. Please drop me an e-mail if you plan to attend.

 

Gerhard

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I have not read the article under discussion nor have I seen the advertisements. I have read this thread and have seen the Event page on geocaching.com. I was planning to attend as well. May I add my opinion, for what it is worth, into the discussion?

 

I might be missing the point, but in summary it appears to me that this event is being classified as commercial because there are "sponsors" and "advertisers" involved. Or is it because geocaching.com has not been mentioned? In looking at the page that lists all the caches in my area I read the following advertisments in amongst the cache listings - Subaru For Sale, Meet Sexy Arab Women, Canadian Geocoins, Pakistani Girls in Qatar, UK Geocachers.com, Qatar Travel, Banking Jobs in Qatar and Gulf Talent.com. Might I add that ALL of these are "clickable" adverts. My question. Are they allowed only because there is REVENUE going to geocaching.com?

 

I am not advocating that advertising be allowed and that this great sport of ours be reduced to something like the NBA or other sports that are sponsor driven. However, we all know that if it were not for advertisers that supported geocaching.com the cost of running the service that we have at our disposal - both this Forum and the other Groundspeak pages that are available - would not be possible without some or other "memebrship fees" being charged. All Premium Members are in fact contributing financially to Groundspeak. Commercialisation? Debatable. At the end of the day I am dissappointed that CrystalFairy's "Keepers of the Cache Event" has been archived. I just hope that there is enough time to get this whole thing sorted out and that the event will still go ahead on 31 May as originally planned and promote this fantastic sport of ours - with sponsors or without.

 

Some food for thought or shoot me down in flames! We all have the ability and right to make choices in our lives.

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We have no problem that geocaching.com was not mentioned in the ad. But in the article it most certainly should have been as it was in Brick's article in Leisure Wheels or Discombobs mother's article in Country Life, because without their site there would be no caches to go out and find.

In the last four years geocaching has grown phenomenally without any ads. Well written articles in newspapers and magazines have no doubt helped towards the growth.

Edited by cownchicken

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We are in contact with Groundspeak and will let everyone know shortly what they decide..

 

Thanks for all the support from the people out there .. We really appreciate it and we sincerely hope that the event will go ahead with the support of Geocaching.com..

 

Sincerely

Andrew & Heidi

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because without their site there would be caches to go out and find.

 

I don't think I should mention names, but there are actually quite a couple of other "caching" sites around. I'm even aware of one caching site dedicated to night caching...

 

The way I see it, most of the SA "caching" community are members of Groundspeak (geocaching.com) and thus posting a listing on geocaching.com would have been the most obvious thing to do to involve current "cachers" in SA (well at least for me), as not all of us receives the Wegbreek/Getaway magazine every month.

 

I've read the article everyone is up in arms about and agree, it does not appear to be the Groundspeak rules as we know them. Maybe they are out-dated, as someone suggested, and maybe they did their research on a different "caching" site. Currently we don't know, but the one fact remains and that is; Wegbreek/Getaway never tried to make this out to be a Groundspeak event, it is listed with them, Getaway, under their events as a Getaway event and I think, reading all the lines above, that that is that causes all this ruckus. I can fully understand that as I myself proudly wear the Groundspeak colours and would have loved to see the official geocaching.com logo on the add.

 

The only thing I have to say on that, is, that I for one is glad that it was listed on geocaching.com, otherwise I probably would not have come to know about the event and would have lost out on all the fun of the day.

 

I think it is a pity the event is now archived, as a lot of cachers will only sign up a week or so before the event. This means that a lot of cachers already saw the listing but has not logged a will attend as they have to sort out some logistics before the time to make sure they can attend. Now they will come back a week or so before the event to log a will attend, but there will be no listing and the obvious deduction will be that the event was cancelled. They will now loose out on the fun. :laughing:

 

See all who is going to the "g-away" event at the event.

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I think it is a pity the event is now archived, as a lot of cachers will only sign up a week or so before the event. This means that a lot of cachers already saw the listing but has not logged a will attend as they have to sort out some logistics before the time to make sure they can attend. Now they will come back a week or so before the event to log a will attend, but there will be no listing and the obvious deduction will be that the event was cancelled.

 

Agreed...

 

Well written articles in newspapers and magazines have no doubt helped towards the growth.

 

Agreed... that's why I think Getaway should have a follow-up artcle. I've considered asking Brick to write one for us - but the Getaway for May goes to print today...

 

I believe we are missing an opportunity to get growth in the geocaching sport.

If you place an ad then it is seen as commercializing the sport. If you mention geocaching.com then it is a commercial ad for them. Mitshibushi is the sponsor and yes I have no pain with their name – I will not rush out tomorrow and buy their products. I go their to enjoy caching.

 

Agreed... I am saddened by the turn of events (the now archived listing). It seems we are all in agreement about loving caching and about getting more people involved in the sport... but under it all there is something else brewing.... and I hope it doesn't divide geocachers instead of bringing us together.

Edited by Team Ginger

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i must agree with what GerhardoosMPSA said - his points are very well made

Except for when he says the sport is stagnating - I think its doing quite fine, except for poor Western Cape having lost some fine cachers in the last few months :laughing:) And that includes you Bear & Fox and GS and Dogs!

 

I do hope that the event does go ahead in order to lure more cachers in!

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Events are not designed to lure people into geocaching.

 

To quote off Groundspeaks website: -

 

"Event Cache - Occasionally, local geocachers and geocaching organizations designate a time and location to meet and discuss geocaching. After the event the caches are archived. "

 

To attend you have to already be a member or a guest of a member. Thats why you cannot find the co-ords on the web unless you are at least an ordinary member.

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I see good arguments for and against. I personally believe that this issue is a border case and it is subjective. There is no clear cut. If I look at the comments then there is a 50/50 split in belief. We should have some sort of system such as a vote to determine the outcome or to assist in decision making.

 

I do not say through away the rules. Rules are what keeps geocaching and society together. But in a border case like this where there are good arguments for and against we should be able to resolve this at the local community level. The guys at geocaching.com can still have the final say but the vote should be considered during the decision-making process. Let the guys debate this first and let them vote on it.

 

Maybe the word stagnating is a harsh word. I belief that we do geocaching because it is fun and an interesting sport and it do help to keep families together. Even when I am caching alone we still have a lot to talk about when I get back and they help me with the logs. Even the organizing is done via my family. I keep my eye on the ratings at geocacher.co.za and I read the last lines of every provinces. I am constantly scanning for newbies. The rate of newbies joining and leaving is about the same. Now I see them, now I don’t. It is not growing in numbers, the word stagnating is probably out of contents.

 

I became interested in geocaching.com after discovering it at the garmin web site by accident while downloading a driver. I only whished I could have read about it in a magazine or in an advert a long time ago. Mitstibushi and geocaching.com is two separate entities which have nothing in common.

 

I am so glad I do not have to make the final call for this one. It is a tough one. At the end it should be in the best interest of geocaching.com. We should gain more than the losses. If this event proceeds then it will be a Mitshibushi event and we could loose a lot. We then depend on Mitshibushi to explain and to demonstrate geocaching. I will be there as a beginner and I will sell the principles of geocaching.com and their beliefs.

 

As the one cache is saying “If life deals you oranges… make wine”. So, CF I will be there and luckily I will not be alone. Yes, we are still going to enjoy it as a family.

 

Gerhard

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I lost my respect for the magazine GetAway, for such an article should have been spot on - all the background for recearch and CrystalFairy were available for consultation. How could I ever believe the magazine now to plan a trip where info is critical? Let us see what retraction or correction is in the process of being printed.

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Has anyone forwarded this thread to Getaway Magazine?

 

Perhaps some pressure will be placed on them...

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My thoughts on this issue have also changed since I have followed this thread and read the actual article. One can look at this from many different angles. Let's say: Geocaching is not a copywrited activity. A magazine and a car company have elected to hold an event involving geocaching. Then comes along Groundspeak members and say hey - we can get involved, list the event and use it to advertise our sport! (OK this is not quite how it happened, CrystalFairy has been doing lots of footwork).

 

After all, every week we get an email from Groundspeak listing articles that have been published in the media, so obviously it has been important for the expansion of the game and the website. On the one hand we would like to keep it exclusive (it's lots of fun explaining the game to others who have never heard of it), but on the other it is publicity which has made the game what it is. Most people like publicity of some sort.

 

I think the game is thriving in South Africa (so disagree with previous posts on that one). It would have been preferable if the magazine article had made more reference to gc.com - but then they would be advertising the website. Maybe the website got a free ride by being associated with a sponsored event - massive ad in a lifestyle mag with prizes and all and free opportunity to come and tell everyone about the game and Groundspeak did not have to pay a cent. Think about that!

 

Any current muggles who come to this event via the ad will either get inspired by the game and join GC or if they are not inspired will forget about it. The more I think about it the more I think this only has positives and no negatives.

 

Now we need to write some letters to be published in the magazine telling our side of the story, and even better get an article published about us.

Edited by the pooks

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Hi Everyone

 

Just a quick followup for those interested..

 

a ) absolutely no response from Groundspeak after 24 hours.

 

b ) yes GetAway have seen the thread (not sure if they read it actively) and the guy who wrote the

article will be contacting me today to give me his sources for the article.

 

c ) if anyone here wants to start another thread in the forum where everyone can club together to write something that can be used in "all" future magazine / print / tv that explains the rules and what geocaching is all about that would be great. In this way all future issues of this sort will be eliminated.. Just my thoughts..

 

Andrew

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I went out and bought Getaway magazine yesterday.

 

It states something like "pocket knifes and jewelry". I agree that both words are incorrect, but the article does not make us a knife wielding bunch of cachers, stashing away jewelry. In the *spirit* of the article I can live with those two descriptions.

 

The complete article is on one page, with almost half the page dedicated to a photo. The other quarter of the page is about three caches Getaway have hidden, which leaves the other quarter to describe geocaching. Not a lot of space, to fully describe geocaching. I do hope however that they do reprint an article with a little more information, better describing geocaching.

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I went out and bought Getaway magazine yesterday.

 

It states something like "pocket knifes and jewelry". I agree that both words are incorrect, but the article does not make us a knife wielding bunch of cachers, stashing away jewelry. In the *spirit* of the article I can live with those two descriptions.

 

The complete article is on one page, with almost half the page dedicated to a photo. The other quarter of the page is about three caches Getaway have hidden, which leaves the other quarter to describe geocaching. Not a lot of space, to fully describe geocaching. I do hope however that they do reprint an article with a little more information, better describing geocaching.

 

Mmmm, the Knifes and Jewelry part makes me think that they might have got their info from the "night caching" site, if you know what I mean..... LOL :laughing:

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I have been watching this thread, but have refrained from posting until now.

I see several assumptions and comments that are a bit off target, so I'll attempt to get us all more or less on the same page.

 

Quote GerhardoosMPsa - "We should have some sort of system such as a vote to determine the outcome or to assist in decision making."

Geocaching is not a democracy. Geocaching.com is owned by Groundspeak Inc, who have provided two documents of terms, conditions and guidelines which we specifically agree to abide by every time we list or edit a cache (the two tick boxes at the bottom of the cache edit page). To assist them with applying and enforcing these rules and guidelines, Groundspeak appoints volunteer reviewers, but always reserves the right to make the final decision. These terms and guidelines are not there to frustrate us - they are there to make geocaching work effectively. They have been continuously adapted by Groundspeak over the past 8 years based on their experience in managing hundreds of thousands of geocache listings and geocachers, and all the issues that go with that. The current terms and guidelines are a result of Groundspeak having been there, done that, and got the T-shirt.

 

These are the documents -

Terms of use - http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx

Cache listing requirements/guidelines - http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

There's a general assumption that geocaching should be grown as quickly as possible, and by using any means possible to recruit new cachers. This is not true. Of course, Groundspeak wants to grow geocaching, but the guidelines make Groundspeak's intent very clear - which is to rather grow it slowly, than in a commercial manner.

 

Quote EragonSaphira - "Sir Thomas Cullinan restaurant got fantastic advertising, and even supplied food which had to be paid for"

An event venue is probably the only exception, and then only because an event has to have a venue, and sometimes the venue is a commercial establishment. Information about the event venue is deemed to be a necessary part of the description of an event cache. But that can also be abused - to say that it's at ABC restaurant, and affordable meals are available is OK, to say that they have the best doughnuts in town is not. One also assumes that the cost of a venue has been minimised as far as possible by the organisers (by negotiation, block booking, etc), to make the venue costs as affordable as possible for cachers.

 

Quote Gerald - "Events are not designed to lure people into geocaching."

This is 100% correct. Events are not meant to be a tool for recruiting new geocachers, or for organised cache hunting.

Quotes from the guidelines - "Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers" and "an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches". Quote from Cache Types, definition of an Event Cache - "Occasionally, local geocachers and geocaching organizations designate a time and location to meet and discuss geocaching."

 

I did not have a major problem with the article (Page 99) in the Getaway. Yes, it's terribly inaccurate reporting, and they need to be rapped over the knuckles, and there should be an apology/correction published, but I didn't see it as a train smash. The fact that they did not specifically mention geocaching.com is a blessing in disguise, because we have not been directly connected to their terrible article.

 

However, the advertisement on Page 112 is a big problem. It's impossible to reconcile the wording of the guidelines "Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers" and "local geocachers and geocaching organizations designate a time and location to meet and discuss geocaching" with this advert which invites the broad public to pitch up at a listed geocaching.com event. Furthermore, this advert makes it very clear that Getaway "owns" the event, also evidenced by Getaway's event web page where it's very strongly portrayed as a Getaway event. This conflicts directly with "organized by geocachers".

 

Quote from the guidelines - "Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing" and quote from Hide and Seek a cache "Only caches of a non-commercial nature can be posted through this site. If you wish to create a commercial cache or promotion, please contact us first. Caches perceived of a commercial nature will not be published"

The commercial content of Page 112 is obvious - it is using the geocaching event as a very blatant advertisement for Getaway.

 

Regarding the event cache listing - one might ask "if it's a problem, why was it published in the first place?". I clearly remember this event listing when it was published - it was shell, stating a date, a broad intent, a request to mark it in diaries, and when compared with the current version of the listing, it was obviously a work in progress. The present (detailed) content of the listing has evolved over the past two months. At the time of review, Erik88l-r questioned whether it had commercial undertones, and was assured that it did not. In good faith, the event was published. Previous events have included minor sponsorship of prizes, and some acknowledgement of the sponsors both in the listing and at the event. Technically, that is commercial content, but in reality the extent and manner in which it was done could not be construed as providing a commercial advantage to the sponsor business. However, with this event, the magnitude of the prizes, the in-depth involvement of the sponsors, and the manner it's been advertised both in the listing, and in Getaway magazine, put it over the top into the territory of having blatant commercial content.

 

Regarding "pushing the envelope" - this is actually encouraged by Groundspeak, and they are always open to new ideas and experimentation, and make specific provision of how to go about it. Quote from the guidelines - "If you have a novel type of cache that “pushes the envelope” to some degree, then it is best to contact your local reviewer and/or Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site." and under the heading of commercial content - "Some exceptions can be made. In these situations, permission can be given by Groundspeak. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first."

 

It goes without saying that should a cache listing be changed materially after it has been reviewed and published, and especially if it pushes the envelope, the cache owner should contact his reviewer to check that it is still OK.

 

I would like to say that I have never doubted CrystalFairy's intentions and bona-fides, and have the greatest respect for their effort and dedication, and the contribution they have made to geocaching in SA.

 

Andy

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That done and said, I am pleased to be able to share the good news - the event has been granted special permission from Groundspeak, and I have just unarchived the listing. :)

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Thanks to Fish Eagle, CrystalFairy and others for obtaining the special permission.

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Andy wrote:

...the event has been granted special permission from Groundspeak...

 

I think "special dispensation" might be a more appropriate term. :)

 

Seriously, I'm very pleased that things could be worked out with a win-win ending.

 

~erik~

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Yes, this is good news. I think geocaching will benefit from this event. Maybe through our actions at the event we can get a much better article published about the sport. The poor guy that have written the article was trying to explain and a demonstrate something he have no clue about. I actually feel sorry for him.

 

A special thanks to all who was involved in getting this event published.

 

I look forward to the event and I really would like to meet the Gauteng cachers. I always like to meet the person who actually planted the cache.

 

Thanks

Gerhard

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