Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 37
mikser

HCx inaccuracy after upgrade to 2.60/2.60

Recommended Posts

I've recently upgraded the firmware in my Vista HCx from 2.40/2.30 to 2.60/2.60 with WebUpdater. After this I'm sometimes seeing much degraded accuracy.

 

The peculiarity of this is that I can get 20m (60ft) of inaccuracy shown even with excellent satellite reception. The actual error (compared to the position on the map) is usually much greater, like 50m (150ft). When this happens, and I switch the unit off and immediately switch it on, then it shows the exact position on the map, and the location accuracy shown is 4m (12ft). So the reception is indeed good, only the GPS becomes confused, and doesn't calculate the position correctly.

 

I've asked Garmin support, and they replied that I should perform a reset (PAGE-ENTER-POWERON), but it didn't make a difference. I've also tried to downgrade the firmware to 2.40, but this only changed the "Software Version", the "GPS SW Version" remained 2.60, and I'm still seeing the same problem.

 

Anyone having a similar experience?

Share this post


Link to post

Anyone having a similar experience?

No. 2.60/2.60 here and I'm getting highly accurate fixes.

 

You don't have "lock on road" turned on do you? Which map are you using?

Share this post


Link to post

Anyone having a similar experience?

No. 2.60/2.60 here and I'm getting highly accurate fixes.

 

You don't have "lock on road" turned on do you? Which map are you using?

 

I'm also getting highly accurate fixes, after turning the unit on. But after some time (half an hour, hour) of walking in not so open terrain, the accuracy just drifts away, and is not always regained when the reception becomes good.

 

In these cases turning the unit off and then immediately turning it on improves the accuracy by 10x, so there is clearly a bug somewhere...

 

"lock on road" is turned off. The map is a free tourist map of Hungary made by volunteers from gps tracks (turistautak.hu), and it is quite accurate in most places. But I also know these routes and places well and have many tracklogs from before and after the firmware upgrade.

 

Anyway, thanks for the response.

Share this post


Link to post

I've recently upgraded the firmware in my Vista HCx from 2.40/2.30 to 2.60/2.60 with WebUpdater. After this I'm sometimes seeing much degraded accuracy.

 

The peculiarity of this is that I can get 20m (60ft) of inaccuracy shown even with excellent satellite reception. The actual error (compared to the position on the map) is usually much greater, like 50m (150ft). When this happens, and I switch the unit off and immediately switch it on, then it shows the exact position on the map, and the location accuracy shown is 4m (12ft). So the reception is indeed good, only the GPS becomes confused, and doesn't calculate the position correctly.

 

I've asked Garmin support, and they replied that I should perform a reset (PAGE-ENTER-POWERON), but it didn't make a difference. I've also tried to downgrade the firmware to 2.40, but this only changed the "Software Version", the "GPS SW Version" remained 2.60, and I'm still seeing the same problem.

 

Anyone having a similar experience?

Not with my Vista HCx, but my wife is having some odd problems with her Venture HC which uses the same chipset. See my post here ... http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3341800

Share this post


Link to post

Not with my Vista HCx, but my wife is having some odd problems with her Venture HC which uses the same chipset. See my post here ... http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3341800

 

Ahh, yes! That is very much how it looks like. For example the red track does the same turns as the blue, but it's wandering further and further away from the real position. That's exactly the same as what I've been observing.

 

I see that you both have the same firmware versions. So it must be something that goes wrong during the firmware upgrade in some cases, and not in others.

 

Garmin support told me to reset the unit and leave it for 30minutes in clear view of the sky. The reset did erase all the user settings, but didn't seem to have any effect on the GPS receiver, the fix was instantaneous after the reset just as before. So the problem may be that the GPS chipset itself needs to be reset, but which apparently the normal reset doesn't perform.

 

Thanks for the info, that's very useful!

Share this post


Link to post

Ahh, yes! That is very much how it looks like. For example the red track does the same turns as the blue, but it's wandering further and further away from the real position. That's exactly the same as what I've been observing.

 

I see that you both have the same firmware versions. So it must be something that goes wrong during the firmware upgrade in some cases, and not in others.

 

Garmin support told me to reset the unit and leave it for 30minutes in clear view of the sky. The reset did erase all the user settings, but didn't seem to have any effect on the GPS receiver, the fix was instantaneous after the reset just as before. So the problem may be that the GPS chipset itself needs to be reset, but which apparently the normal reset doesn't perform.

 

Thanks for the info, that's very useful!

Glad to have been of some use, but it doesn't solve your, or my problem unfortunately.

 

There doesn't seem to be any way of redoing the update of the GPS chipset firmware or downgrading, since the files aren't available as separate .exe files like the main firmware updates are, but only via webupdater. There was a funny thing that happened with the 2.50 firmware that when you did the GPS chipset update it hung on the update screen and needed a manual reboot to get it out of it. They fixed this with the 2.60 main firmware update .. to quote the release notes "Fix reboot issue of GPS firmware update." Whether that had anything to do with it, I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post

Glad to have been of some use, but it doesn't solve your, or my problem unfortunately.

 

There doesn't seem to be any way of redoing the update of the GPS chipset firmware or downgrading, since the files aren't available as separate .exe files like the main firmware updates are, but only via webupdater. There was a funny thing that happened with the 2.50 firmware that when you did the GPS chipset update it hung on the update screen and needed a manual reboot to get it out of it. They fixed this with the 2.60 main firmware update .. to quote the release notes "Fix reboot issue of GPS firmware update." Whether that had anything to do with it, I don't know.

 

Yes, it's unfortunate that it's impossible to downgrade the chipset firmware. But finding more cases increases the chance, that Garmin will do something about this quickly. For example they could rename the 2.50 chipset firmware to 2.70 and allow us to "upgrade" to it in WebUpdater. Or just create an exe with the old chipset fw for the affected people.

 

Have you contacted their support yet? I think it may speed things up if more people would complain about this bug.

Share this post


Link to post

Have you contacted their support yet? I think it may speed things up if more people would complain about this bug.

No, I haven't. I generally avoid tech support (for anything, not only Garmin) like the plague, and only contact them as an utter last resort .. I'd only end up getting frustrated at the stock replies and their total inability to actually read what I've written.

Share this post


Link to post

I also noticed some accuracy problem after latest upgrade. Mostly noticeable when close to a cache it point me here and there in a 30m radius maybe. When I power off/on the unit it helps and I can finally find the right spot.

 

I'll keep an eye on this thread... seems I was not dreaming since you are a few reporting this now.

Share this post


Link to post

I have a Vista HCX since one month (First GPS) and I have the same problem. I thought I did something wrong until I read this post. This weekend, when I looked at the screen and saw the track was being logged around 100m from where I was I powered it off and on and immediately the track restarted where I really was. There is a gap of 100 in the middle of my track. The operation took 15 seconds so I don't think anything changed in the reception conditions.

 

I don't know why it happened but the track logging was OK for around 2 hours. I have also seen that the track diverged progressively and not in one sudden move of 100m.This was a street and so easy to detect precisely on the map). It took around 100m to get 100m off, almost like a diagonal in a square. It stayed off constantly by 100m until I switched it off. The rest of the day was OK with no more divergence.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, regarding the problem with my wife's Venture HC that I mentioned above, we went back to the same area where we were having problems on Saturday, but this time disabled WAAS, and got no problems at all. Not sure whether this is relevant or not, but it seemed to solve the problem, which is strange seeing as in the places where we were having problems (fairly thick tree cover) there's not a bat in hells' chance we were picking up a WAAS (or in our case EGNOS) satellite anyway. Strange.

Share this post


Link to post

I have WAAS always turned off, as I've never seen any improvement with it on the HCx. Maybe the act of turning it off flipped something in the chipset firmware. I'll try turning it on and then off to see if that helps. Thanks for the info.

 

BTW, I got this reply for my latest query to product support: "There is no known fault with the firmware and no way of downgrading, so the only option is a repair." At least they are trying to be helpful. But still, replacing a unit because of a buggy software update is a rather stupid thing to do IMHO. Especially since this seems to affect quite a number of people (I've got reports of this on a Hungarian forum as well).

Share this post


Link to post

Today was the first I was able to use my Venture HC since upgrading the software to 2.60. Found a four stage multi-cache with no problems. Did not notice any problems with accuracy. I always have WAAS turned on.

Share this post


Link to post

Noticed the same thing, especially when getting close to a cache. Zero in on a cache then suddenly send me 50 feet in another direction. Did not happen until last update.

Share this post


Link to post

I've recently upgraded the firmware in my Vista HCx from 2.40/2.30 to 2.60/2.60 with WebUpdater. After this I'm sometimes seeing much degraded accuracy.

 

The peculiarity of this is that I can get 20m (60ft) of inaccuracy shown even with excellent satellite reception. The actual error (compared to the position on the map) is usually much greater, like 50m (150ft). When this happens, and I switch the unit off and immediately switch it on, then it shows the exact position on the map, and the location accuracy shown is 4m (12ft). So the reception is indeed good, only the GPS becomes confused, and doesn't calculate the position correctly.

 

I've asked Garmin support, and they replied that I should perform a reset (PAGE-ENTER-POWERON), but it didn't make a difference. I've also tried to downgrade the firmware to 2.40, but this only changed the "Software Version", the "GPS SW Version" remained 2.60, and I'm still seeing the same problem.

 

Anyone having a similar experience?

 

I recently upgraded my Vista HCx to 260/260 (from 250/260 or 260/250). Went caching today and it did seem to be "off" more than in the past. I was typically seeing 35' today when at the cache, while 10' was more typical before the upgrade. I guess it's possible the the originator's GPS was off, but unlikely for all four finds today. I'm going to try to verify the accuracy before I complain to Garmin. 260 did fix the backlighting issue when using lithium batteries.

Share this post


Link to post
it did seem to be "off" more than in the past.

 

If you suspect it is off more than in the past, try powering it off and on. Do you see a difference ? In my case difference was around 100m. Fixed after the operation.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi all ... new to the Forums, GPS's and Geocaching ..

Is anyone having this accuracy issue with the eTrex Legend HCx ?

I just ordered one ... waiting for it .. Hope its not going to have

the same issue .. :o

 

Randy

Edited by N2CUA

Share this post


Link to post

Checked with and without WAAS, and it's the same. It does seem to have "good days" when it seems to work perfectly.

 

My current "record" for this bug is 50m (150ft) shown accuracy and about 150-200m (500-600ft) actual inaccuracy, with good satellite reception. Turning unit off/on restored the accuracy to 4m (12ft) and to the correct position on the map at a road crossing.

 

N2CUA, the Legend HCx has exactly the same firware as the Vista HCx, but I wouldn't worry about the factory installed software. I'd advise against upgrading to the latest "GPS software" though, until Garmin resolves this issue. The main software doesn't play a part in this bug, so that can safely be upgraded.

Share this post


Link to post

Are we the only few ones to have this problem ? I am wondering now if this is a firmware or a hardware problem.

 

Is it confirmed it appeared after the last GPS firmware upgrade ? I installed 2.60 when I bought it so I do not have a comparison for my Vista..

Share this post


Link to post

Are we the only few ones to have this problem ? I am wondering now if this is a firmware or a hardware problem.

 

Is it confirmed it appeared after the last GPS firmware upgrade ? I installed 2.60 when I bought it so I do not have a comparison for my Vista..

Definitely. I had this unit for about half a year before upgrading to 2.60, and never noticed anything like this. I use it mainly for mapping (OpenStreetMap and turistautak.hu), and so these inaccurate tracks made the unit basically unusable for me.

 

Yes, it's weird, that only a small percentage of HCx users seems to experience this problem. Just guessing, that some older ones have a different revision of the chipset, that makes them susceptible to this bug. If Garmin doesn't release a fix soon, I'll have to send it back for repair/replacement under warranty.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks all .. Doesnt seem to have affected it so far ..

It did help the issue of the bearing pointer not moving

unless I was walking at a certain pace .. which is tooooo

fast for geocaching ..

 

Lately I have been making map images from USGS data ..

Stupid base maps ... even if it came with something in

between base maps and full blown maps would be nice ..

So made my own ... LOL ...

( not for the faint of heart either , trust me, I will prolly

have a headache for a week now from figuring that one out )

:anibad:

Randy

Share this post


Link to post

Are we the only few ones to have this problem ?

 

I believe I have this issue from time to time as well. I only use my GPS to record my tracks all day while skiing, and don't really look at it much throughout the day, so I usually notice this much later when I am viewing the data on my computer.

 

There have been cases where I know I skied the same trail twice, but one set of tracks are offset by (several?) hundred feet from each other. It looks as if I skied down a parallel trail to the original, but I know I did not. In fact, the second set of tracks go through what would be forest area, not another trail.

 

This doesn't happen all too frequently, and I really like the Vista HCx overall. Hopefully they fix this though.

Share this post


Link to post
I believe I have this issue from time to time as well.

...

This doesn't happen all too frequently, and I really like the Vista HCx overall. Hopefully they fix this though.

Same here so if at least we can tell them it's real they may take a look at it. Problems that are not easily replicable are hard to diagnose and fix.

Share this post


Link to post
I believe I have this issue from time to time as well.

...

This doesn't happen all too frequently, and I really like the Vista HCx overall. Hopefully they fix this though.

Same here so if at least we can tell them it's real they may take a look at it. Problems that are not easily replicable are hard to diagnose and fix.

 

Not to mention, I was on the phone with Garmin today, and the service department

says they have had no reports of this , and were clueless ..

 

So, I would highly suggest we all start calling them and letting them know whats going on ..,

 

Perhaps ... we could try different things to see if there is a pattern to when it goes off course..

I go think its when its crunching data and we are actively moving. Mine sat still for several hours

while I was making a map .. and it seem to be fine ..

 

Has anyone tried turning off WAAS to see if that impacts it in the same way?

 

Randy

Share this post


Link to post

Has anyone tried turning off WAAS to see if that impacts it in the same way?

My wife was having this problem with her Venture HC, and it seemed to be cured by disabling WAAS, but it was hardly a scientifically valid experiment. She was only having the problem in areas of relatively bad coverage, such as on forest tracks, where WAAS would have been as much use as a chocolate teapot anyway.

 

Interestingly though, my own Vista HCx seems not to have been affected at all by this problem.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm also experiencing very serious accuracy issues:

 

If I switch my HCX on under "difficult conditions" like indoors, and wait for a position, I sometimes get an error in excess of 1 km. If I now move outdoors and start driving, the error persists, usually for around 5 minutes, even after the ephemeris data of many sattelites have now been downloaded. It reports reasonable accuracy, shows good sattelite signals and yet reports a position more than 1 km away from the true position. It reacts to turns and movement, so if I were not on roads, I would not have known that it is reporting incorrect position. If I turn it turns accordingly. The bahaviour is what I would call "false but believable" and is a very serious condition. I am now on my third unit and all firmware revisions up to 2.60/2.60 have all shown this behaviour. The error usually disappears after a while by making one sudden jump to the correct position. The Garmin agents in South Africa say they are following up, but I dont' see anything happening. A few emails to Garmin themseves were ignored.

 

There is no doubt a serious issue, but it seems as if Garmin is not prepared to admit to this. I've used Garmin products outdoors for many years, and it has helped me out of difficult situations. Now I am losing confidence in an otherwise great little unit.

Share this post


Link to post

If anyone needs or wants to downgrade their firmware, all old versions can be found here: http://www.gpsinformation.org/perry/

 

Note that if you downgrade, all user data will be lost and settings returned to factory defaults.

Edited by Red90

Share this post


Link to post

If anyone needs or wants to downgrade their firmware, all old versions can be found here: http://www.gpsinformation.org/perry/

 

Note that if you downgrade, all user data will be lost and settings returned to factory defaults.

 

I am having some problems after updating my 60CX

 

Software 3.50 to 3.60

GPS SW 2.90 to 3.00

 

Would I downgrade both or just the GPS SW from 3.00 back to 2.90?

Share this post


Link to post

I believe you will only be able to down grade the firmware, the GPS software seems to be a one way process. How ever I could and do hope I am wrong as I've upgraded my wife's legend HCx and am waiting for the negative feedback that I've heard from all my friends who also upgraded.

Share this post


Link to post

It's not related to 2.60 only but to previous version also...

 

Anyone else came up with a non responding arrow in compass mode when geocaching?

 

Was in Daytona last week and a few times, enough to be annoying, while approching the cache the arrow stop pointing the cache for many seconds, it's faster to power off/on the unit to get it point correctly again.

 

I wonder if they will ever fix this.

Share this post


Link to post

It's not related to 2.60 only but to previous version also...

 

Anyone else came up with a non responding arrow in compass mode when geocaching?

 

Was in Daytona last week and a few times, enough to be annoying, while approching the cache the arrow stop pointing the cache for many seconds, it's faster to power off/on the unit to get it point correctly again.

 

I wonder if they will ever fix this.

 

Mine did that until I upgraded to 2.6, and I have to say I havent had any accuracy issues yet ..

I also find that its easy to match the coordinates once I get close to the cache. I tend to try and walk

past and off to the side of the cache .. so I can get the general direction to the cache.. then walk in that direction and keep an eye on the coordinates until they are whats listed .. then look around .. I have tried this several times on a spot that I picked when out walking .. and I think its easier and more accurate then the arrow. I get within 5 feet over 90 % of the time .

Share this post


Link to post

Anyone else came up with a non responding arrow in compass mode when geocaching?

I have 2.60/2.60 and I had this happen to me this week. Had to power cycle to get it back. I've only seen it that one time, though.

Share this post


Link to post

I have experienced the same problem with my otherwise trusty Garmin GEKO 201, it only appears when I have EGNOS (European version of WAAS) reception. Height readings are at the same time way off, could show 150 meters all of a sudden, whilst I am near shore level...

 

SM1NVX Dag, Sweden

Share this post


Link to post
Anyone else came up with a non responding arrow in compass mode when geocaching?

 

Was in Daytona last week and a few times, enough to be annoying, while approching the cache the arrow stop pointing the cache for many seconds, it's faster to power off/on the unit to get it point correctly again.

I know, quoting myself but just wanted to add that it may be only when WAAS is turned on? I will need report if you are using WAAS or not and if you have that problem.

Share this post


Link to post

Had the problem twice and I always used waas. Not seen the problem since weeks now. Don't know why and I don't remember having changed anything that could to explain this.

Share this post


Link to post

This is bugging me. I don't have hard evidence, but my Vista HCx just "feels" less accurate since the GPS software 2.60 update. Not 20 to 50 meters off, more like 5 to 10, even when EPE is reported as 2 to 3 meters. I would be thoroughly annoyed if Garmin changed something fundamental in the GPS software because of the people griping about the odometer, and now we have to live with a positional error, which is a far worse problem.

Share this post


Link to post

What I don't understand is why can't we have good precision AND a correct odometer? We've all paid enough for these units, and that is what they are supposed to do.

Share this post


Link to post

What I don't understand is why can't we have good precision AND a correct odometer? We've all paid enough for these units, and that is what they are supposed to do.

 

Hear, hear!

 

The problem is that the H series has a new chipset (MediaTek) and Garmin probably doesn't control the firmware, or if it does, it has very little expertise in it. In hindsight I should have bought a 60CSx, which is a bit more expensive, but much more mature unit.

 

Oh, and I wish there was a little more competition in the handheld GPS market.

Share this post


Link to post

Side Question: is there a way to call up an information screen that will display what firmware version is installed on my HCx?

 

I haven't had the accuracy problem mentioned, but I have had my HCx "freeze" a few times (problem stopped with a simple turn off/turn on).

Share this post


Link to post

To display firmware:

1. In the "Main Menu" screen select "Setup"

2. In the "Setup Menu" screen select "System"

3. When in the "system Setup" screen, press the menu button(left bottom) and select "Software Version"

 

Hope that helps

Share this post


Link to post

Just received the Legend HCx and immediately upgraded from 2.40 to 2.60. Maybe I should have read this first.

 

Sitting by the window and it is telling me the error is 17 feet I leave it by the window for a few hours (south) and apparently it talks to the WAAS satellite long enough to get differential information so I look and the error is now 53 feet, and all the satellite bars have the D in them.

Perhaps here is a hint to what going on. When you power cycle it loses the WAAS information, because upon powerup the little Ds on the satellite bars are gone. This could explain why people see an immediate reduced error when they power cycle.

So perhaps 2.60 has done something to screw up WAAS information.

Share this post


Link to post

Like always, next firmware take a long time to appear.

 

Wonder if it is more complex or less complex than a motherboard BIOS. I know some motherboard makers who pump our new BIOS revision faster than Garmin could release a firmware.

Share this post


Link to post

I have noticed that the compass on mine does not work correctly either. It can't seem to find a direction, and flips from north to south, back to north, back to south, north, south, etc, etc, and all of this while walking due north.

Share this post


Link to post

I have noticed that the compass on mine does not work correctly either. It can't seem to find a direction, and flips from north to south, back to north, back to south, north, south, etc, etc, and all of this while walking due north.

 

Which compass are you talking about, the electronic one in the Vista or the one that both the Vista and Legend have which is just a reflection of your travel. If it is the Vista one, as many of said it has to be calibrated every time you replace the batteries, and even then occasionally acts strangely. As for the compass that is based on your motion, I have not noticed any problems with that.

Share this post


Link to post

I have noticed that the compass on mine does not work correctly either. It can't seem to find a direction, and flips from north to south, back to north, back to south, north, south, etc, etc, and all of this while walking due north.

You are not supposed to hold it vertically or it will do that. Hold it horizontally, flat with the ground.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 37

×
×
  • Create New...