Difficulty and Terrain

[+Bunganator]

I did a PQ the other day for the 5/5 caches in the United States. I read up on a few and mentioned some to my dad and he questioned the 5/5ness of them. The reason for this is what each number signifies. My understanding is that terrain is how hard it is to get there and difficulty is the hide itself. I have seem some 5/5 caches where you rock climb to get a cache in plain sight. Using the rating system on the "new cache" listing page, this would be a 1 difficulty and 5 terrain.

 

Is there any true 5/5's out there that are more than someone wanting to say they have a 5/5 cache? Links?

Edited February 18, 2008 by Bunganator

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Yes. We own some of them.

[steedaq155]

Yes. We own some of them.

 

I'm willing to bet almost all of the Psycho Urban caches are true 5/5's. That's crazy!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I did a PQ the other day for the 5/5 caches in the United States. I read up on a few and mentioned some to my dad and he questioned the 5/5ness of them. The reason for this is what each number signifies. My understanding is that terrain is how hard it is to get there and difficulty is the hide itself. I have seem some 5/5 caches where you rock climb to get a cache in plain sight. Using the rating system on the "new cache" listing page, this would be a 1 difficulty and 5 terrain.

 

Is there any true 5/5's out there that are more than someone wanting to say they have a 5/5 cache? Links?

In addition to my earlier reply, I must also note that you appear to be a bit confused about the exact definition of the "Difficulty" ratings and thus your example wherein you conclude "...to get a cache in plain sight. Using the rating system on the "new cache" listing page, this would be a 1 difficulty and 5 terrain." is incorrect. You are not alone in your misassumption; I suspect that a sizeable minority of cachers shares the same mistaken impression. However, since this matter of the D rating has been discussed numerous times in the past on this forum in threads devoted to that issue, and since the true usage of the D rating has been well-explained in those threads, I have no interest in, nor appetite for, repeating it all here. You are welcome to peruse those earlier threads on the topic if you choose. If you do not have the patience to search for those older threads from the past year, then you might at least wish to take a close look at the ClayJar rating system which is available as a pop-up link when you are submitting a cache listing form.

[+Bunganator]

If you do not have the patience to search for those older threads from the past year, then you might at least wish to take a close look at the ClayJar rating system which is available as a pop-up link when you are submitting a cache listing form.

 

As a matter of fact, I just used the ClayJar that both you and I refered to. I set it as several mile hike in the toughest of terrains with special equipment needed and a cache in plain sight and the result: a 1 difficulty and 5 terrian.

[+StarBrand]

I'll be one that will disagree with Vinny.

 

Terrain is all about getting to the spot of the cache.

 

Difficulty is how hard it is to find it once you get there. Cleverness of the hide so to speak.

 

Vinny and some others try to mix and intertwine the two to some degree but I have always believed them to be totally separate definitons. Anthing lying openly on the ground should be a 1 for difficulty - no matter how hard it is to get there.

 

A true 5/5 should require special equipment and training to get there --- AND --- several return trips to locate the evilness of the hide because it is hard to locate. My opinion, my read of the definitions.

[Fluxuated]

I'll be one that will disagree with Vinny.

 

Terrain is all about getting to the spot of the cache.

 

Difficulty is how hard it is to find it once you get there. Cleverness of the hide so to speak.

 

Vinny and some others try to mix and intertwine the two to some degree but I have always believed them to be totally separate definitons. Anthing lying openly on the ground should be a 1 for difficulty - no matter how hard it is to get there.

 

A true 5/5 should require special equipment and training to get there --- AND --- several return trips to locate the evilness of the hide because it is hard to locate. My opinion, my read of the definitions.

 

This I agree with!

[+no_peeking]

As a matter of fact, I just used the ClayJar that both you and I refered to. I set it as several mile hike in the toughest of terrains with special equipment needed and a cache in plain sight and the result: a 1 difficulty and 5 terrian.

 

This is kind of the point I was trying to get to in the other thread. There is only one of the seven characteristics on ClayJar that is used to actually characterize the difficulty of the hide itself. All of the other characteristics have to do with getting to the hide (i.e. terrain), and I'm fine with those.

 

In my opinion, it would be worth adding some additional characteristics to the hide itself. But I'm not going to argue it because of the low signal to noise ratio. Geocaching is an autonomous collective, an anarcho-syndicalist commune where people take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer of the week.

[+StumpWater]

And the award for best Monty Python reference goes to .....

[Tahosa and Sons]

In my humble opion a true 5/5 should be a good multi with several well hidden stages as you progress towards your goal. That should take care of the difficulty (brains). The terrain should be difficult, long and arduous and with a good uphill climb. I don't think a cache would require as Starbrand states A true 5/5 should require special equipment and training to get there . In fact I wonder what kind of training and who would do the training and what is the definition of special equipment?

 

I own what I believe are true 5 / 5's and would welcome a field check by those who wouldn't think they were 5 /5 's and when they have found the cache give me your opion.

1. The Dessert

2. Mac's Cache

3. Corey's Safari III

[+Isonzo Karst]

I agree that the hide itself should be devious if it's going to be a 5 difficulty, although I think that where a puzzle is difficult, that the difficulty of the puzzle becomes part of the difficulty rating, not the terrain rating. A 5/5 should have extreme terrain and then, when you arrive, a significant chance of failure.

 

The DeLorme and County Challenges may legitimately be 5 difficulty, for the requirements to get the coordinates. Put one of those finals on an island, you've got a 5/5 (and some unhappy non-boat owning cachers).

[+markewallace]

In fact I wonder what kind of training and who would do the training and what is the definition of special equipment?

 

I'm planning to place a few that require rock climbing skills and equipment. Thus, you'd need to have been trained by someone with the skill to teach rock climbing, and you'd have to have special rock climbing gear to get there.

 

- Mark

[+StumpWater]

Oops, NM, wrong topic. Sorry.

Edited February 18, 2008 by StumpWater

[+Renegade Knight]

.... Using the rating system on the "new cache" listing page, this would be a 1 difficulty and 5 terrain....

 

That's about right.

 

There is a balance in the 5s. A 5 terrain due to the 30 mile hike should probably not be a 5 difficulty. However 30 seconds of sheer terror followed by a grueling search for a 5 difficulty cache keeps the balance about right.

 

There are not a lot of true 5/5s in my area.

[+Pirates of Tuskegee]

In my humble opion a true 5/5 should be a good multi with several well hidden stages as you progress towards your goal. That should take care of the difficulty (brains). The terrain should be difficult, long and arduous and with a good uphill climb. I don't think a cache would require as Starbrand states A true 5/5 should require special equipment and training to get there . In fact I wonder what kind of training and who would do the training and what is the definition of special equipment?

 

I own what I believe are true 5 / 5's and would welcome a field check by those who wouldn't think they were 5 /5 's and when they have found the cache give me your opion.

1. The Dessert

2. Mac's Cache

3. Corey's Safari III

By definition, a terrain rating of 5 needs special equipment or skills or both to get to it. Whether that be a boat, rock climbing equip, scuba equip, or high altitude stamina, whatever.

 

The Dificulty of 5 could be the evil-ness of the hide, or it could be a puzzle cache that is murder to figure out. I did 2ManyStarz2Do and it was most definitely a 5 star puzzle.

 

There are a few ways to get a true 5/5 cache, but as far as the terrain, it should require special skills, or special equipment.

[Tahosa and Sons]

There are a few ways to get a true 5/5 cache, but as far as the terrain, it should require special skills, or special equipment.

 

As the Clayjar system states:

 

Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience, (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

Now I wonder with this cache - X9416. If I were to take a cacher to the Forest Service Gate, drop them off and they hike the 8 miles in, and I drove in. Would it be a 4 terrain because they walked the 8 miles and a 5 terrain for me because I drove 8 miles using special equipment (jeep).

[Rostropovich]

***** Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

 

This definition seems to imply that the difficulty rating is the overall rating of a cache and the preparation required to find it; therefore, a cache that has 5/5 should only be taken on only with extensive preparation and sufficient experience.

 

Now I wonder with this cache - X9416. If I were to take a cacher to the Forest Service Gate, drop them off and they hike the 8 miles in, and I drove in. Would it be a 4 terrain because they walked the 8 miles and a 5 terrain for me because I drove 8 miles using special equipment (jeep).

 

Driving to a cache in a four wheel drive vehicle should be classified at highest a 3.5 terrain because hardly any preparation is required.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Rostropovich

[+Viajero Perdido]

This one's rated a "4".

 

 

The cache is on the summit.

 

I keep this in mind when rating my own hides.

[+dew cache]

.... Using the rating system on the "new cache" listing page, this would be a 1 difficulty and 5 terrain....

 

That's about right.

 

There is a balance in the 5s. A 5 terrain due to the 30 mile hike should probably not be a 5 difficulty. However 30 seconds of sheer terror followed by a grueling search for a 5 difficulty cache keeps the balance about right.

 

There are not a lot of true 5/5s in my area.

 

I don't know a 30 mile hike requires a little prep like being in shape to do it first of all and getting water and food prepared it would be at least a 10 hour hike, maybe even an over night if you wanted to look at anything, to hike 30 miles for most people. I know for me a 30 mile hike for one cache had better be a 5 or I would never start it maybe 30-45 years ago I would have but not now .

[+Monkeybrad]

Here's one that is a true 5/5.

 

The Legend of the Golden Banana

 

It took us over a month to solve the puzzle, which required highly specialized knowledge, to retrieve the first set of coordinates to a multi. The stages of the multi include a scuba stage, a night caching stage and then a devilishly difficult final cache that requires specialized skills and equipment to access and open. Definitely a true 5/5.

[+linuxxpert]

I own 2.... one of them is seriously unrated as a 5/5.... only one team found it so far... its pretty much automatically a 5 terrain rating if you need special equipment.. however I feel when you can actually can get seriously hurt or even die if you are not careful its also a 5 terrain rating

Difficultly is usually overrated.. I have done a few 5/5s where the terrain was really a five but the cache was an easy find... You can increase the difficulty by adding a puzzle or make it a really really hard find which is usually just annoying.. at least for me.. I am more of a high terrain guy even though I own a few difficult puzzles myself... guess that makes me a hypocrite!