Detrimental behavior that affects geocaching as a whole

[+Rockin Roddy]

The sport of geocaching is just fine. There's only like, a gazillion cashes listed and a very small percentage of geocachers do bad things.

That's like saying "it's only a little, tiny brush fire in a great BIG forest...

 

Your analogy is an overexeration. Its really not like a brush fire at all

 

Well, which is it? Is there a problem or not?

 

Its not a problem or at least compared to the other problems we all face.

 

You want to talk about problems? Try living here in Michigan under Granholm's thumb.

 

I think I can safely say I'm facing more than my share of hardship (and not just monetary)...and yet I can STILL worry about this problem which potentially IS detrimental to caching. As I said before, we've got some family health issues which top my list...grandpa (94) is on his deathbed, uncle just had a stroke recently and was in nursing home (which cost us $100/day)...until the insurance ran out and the price jumped DRASTICALLY ($500/day)...then the staff suddenly felt my unc was MUCH better. Mom is looking really taxed, she's caring for both and really doesn't like letting any of us help much (I think she's "protecting" or shielding us from the sadness...in her mind)..I TRULY fear for her. My dad (64) is a workaholic, he even works during the off-season (which in the golf industry is when snow flies)...pushing snow and chopping dead wood from the treelines. He doesn't like us to help though, and often will lock the barns so we can't do it w/o his knowing. His health is bad as well and he scares me too!

 

Even with all that (and MUCH more), I can still worry about how someone's actions can take one of my true escapes from reality away...and I do worry about it! I'm sure others can share similar concerns as well...and I'm willing to bet many who CARE about this sport feel as I do! (I see much proof right here in this topic)

Edited January 27, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

5 pages to go!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+Rockin Roddy]

5 pages to go!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

And then I see comments like this that don't offer any help or even try to reason why there isn't a problem....are you just trolling here Deane??

[+team moxiepup]

The logic behind this completely escapes me - how can you have a public park, paid for and maintained by public funds, but limited in use to the people who happen to live in that specific municipality?

Just a guess, but perhaps the communities in question were not municipalities but private developments (condos) whose homeowners' associations paid for the parks?

 

Nope - they're specifically listed as "Such-and-such Community Park" - They have some strange rules around there - like there are a couple of those suburbs which have made it illegal to eat in your car. I'm not kidding - they have signs posted near some fast food establishments citing the law!

 

I know there are some small "town" beaches in this area that only allow residents from that town to use them. The town, ie. the town tax payers, pay for the upkeep. I suppose the logic is that the beach could get incredibly over crowded if people from all the surrounding towns and cities were to swoop in. I understand their point on the one hand, but also think it kinda bites on the other. Geocaches, obviously could not be placed in these areas.

 

Making it illegal to eat in your car just dumbfounds me! What is the point? As dog owners, we often eat in our car when we're out and about. They won't allow the dog in the restaurant, or allow the owners to eat in the car? We'd be avoiding those towns as much as possible!

 

"We'd be avoiding those towns as much as possible!" Uh, yeah, I think that that's the general idea.

 

Gotta love it.

 

This would also really rub my fur the wrong way if it were my town! I'm sure the rule applies to residents as well. Sounds like a place that really needs its residents to take a more active role in local government.

 

Same thing goes for geocaching. We need to take an active role in how we want the sport to be. It can be in a large, more organized way, such as forming/joining a geocaching group that encourages responsible caching, or in little individual ways. A friendly e-mail to those who have bragged about breaking the rules might go a long way. If the "friendly" e-mail doesn't work, perhaps the owner of the cache should let it be known that they will delete any logs which indicated irresponsible caching. The "tiny brush fire in a big forrest" analogy is correct. It will only take one irresponsible cacher to make a land manager decide to ban all caches in a given area. This isn't speculation; it has happened!

[+rlridgeway]

...The brush fire analogy is that little problems tend to become bigger problems if they are not dealt with when they are little....

 

There is very little proof that rogue geocachers are such a concern that the sport is in danger, even at the brush fire stage.

Yes, there are dangers when small problems are overlooked. There are also dangers when minor issues get elevated to an unreasonable stature. Real problems get side-lined.

The Anza-Borrego Desert State Park controversy does not appear to be about detrimental behavior of rogue geocachers but about the land manager's general policy towards geocaching. The agency appears to believe that even legitimate geocaching is harmful. I would think that is the real issue the local geocaching crowd needs to address.

 

Overall geocaching is growing each year, by leaps and bounds. More and more areas are becoming open to the sport, not less. The actions of a few rogues have not changed this. There really are bigger issues to worry about.

Edited January 27, 2008 by rlridgeway

[+Kit Fox]

...The brush fire analogy is that little problems tend to become bigger problems if they are not dealt with when they are little....

 

There is very little proof that rogue geocachers are such a concern that the sport is in danger, even at the brush fire stage. Yes, there are dangers when small problems are overlooked. There are also dangers when minor issues get elevated to an unreasonable stature. Real problems get side-lined.

The Anza-Borrego Desert State Park controversy does not appear to be about detrimental behavior of rogue geocachers but about the land manager's general policy towards geocaching. The agency appears to believe that even legitimate geocaching is harmful. I would think that is the real issue the local geocaching crowd needs to address.

 

Overall geocaching is growing each year, by leaps and bounds. More and more areas are becoming open to the sport, not less. The actions of a few rogues have not changed this. There really are more bigger issues to worry about.

 

And you know this based on what knowledge and experience? For someone that has been a member since 04, but rarely caches, I think your out of the proverbial loop. Have you not followed any of the past threads about geocaching being banned in great areas, because of a few knotheads?

[+Radnord]

All of the observations mentioned here, except for the political crap, is true. The conservative, greedy, pandering media sensationalizes everything for the sake of ratings. This leads to the real possibility that a few "bad apples" could indeed spoil it for the rest of us. It only takes a few to do real damage that the affirmative actions of the rest of us cannot ocercome. Using sound judgment in deciding where to place caches is keen. In the state of Washington, caches placed in state parks must have the permission of the park ranger. This prevents any unwise or environmentally damaging placements leading to a possible ban. Most local and county parks departments do not seem to care at all about this issue. I have cantacted several of them locally to find out if they have a policy or concern over the placement of geocaches, and every time no one at all responded to my inquiries. If they do not bother to respond, how can I assume anything else other than they are not concerned.

I agree that it is never acceptable to place on private property without the permission of the owner. In most cases I am not comfortable caching on private property even with the owner's permission. I am always wondering what the neighbors are thinking.

Like anything else in life, we must protect what we cherish or see it taken away. People who cache irresponsibly need to pull their heads out of the sand and think about the big picture.

 

Also the scorched-earth approach is just plain inconsiderate. People who will be searching after you will not appreciate the unwanted hint, or misdirection (depending on whether or not you're in the right place) that comes with this type of thoughtless action.

[+Team Cotati]

"People who cache irresponsibly need to pull their heads out of the sand and think about the big picture."

 

Sadly that requires something that is sorely missing: Responsible leadership.

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

5 pages to go!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

And then I see comments like this that don't offer any help or even try to reason why there isn't a problem....are you just trolling here Deane??

 

Just letting you all know, in my own special way, that I don't think that anything constructive will come of this thread and that I am counting down the pages until it digresses to the point the moderator will shut it down.

 

Think of me as the time keeper.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+Team Cotati]

"I don't think that anything constructive will come of this thread"

 

I completely agree. The big difference here is that I think that that outcome is a bad thing. Yet I continue to hope that eventually, that will change.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Team Cotati

[+JohnnyVegas]

...The brush fire analogy is that little problems tend to become bigger problems if they are not dealt with when they are little....

 

There is very little proof that rogue geocachers are such a concern that the sport is in danger, even at the brush fire stage. Yes, there are dangers when small problems are overlooked. There are also dangers when minor issues get elevated to an unreasonable stature. Real problems get side-lined.

The Anza-Borrego Desert State Park controversy does not appear to be about detrimental behavior of rogue geocachers but about the land manager's general policy towards geocaching. The agency appears to believe that even legitimate geocaching is harmful. I would think that is the real issue the local geocaching crowd needs to address.

 

Overall geocaching is growing each year, by leaps and bounds. More and more areas are becoming open to the sport, not less. The actions of a few rogues have not changed this. There really are more bigger issues to worry about.

 

And you know this based on what knowledge and experience? For someone that has been a member since 04, but rarely caches, I think your out of the proverbial loop. Have you not followed any of the past threads about geocaching being banned in great areas, because of a few knotheads?

Well, Rlridgeway is finding 7.75 caches per year

 

But I see a bigger problem with cachers that place illegal caches. It has gotten to the point that if I got out and find 10 caches in a day at least one will be buried or screwed into private peoperty. Not to mention two the I have found placed next to live wires behind electrical cover plates on lamp post.

If anything is going to hurt geocaching in the future it will be idiots that hide caches like this.

new cachers tend to copy what they see others do.

Yesterday I had time to find three caches, one of those was buried. Dont get wet

Edited January 27, 2008 by JohnnyVegas

[+rlridgeway]

And you know this based on what knowledge and experience? For someone that has been a member since 04, but rarely caches, I think your out of the proverbial loop. Have you not followed any of the past threads about geocaching being banned in great areas, because of a few knotheads?

 

Oh Geesh, this conversation is going nowhere. I hate it when I become a participant in such foolishness.

[+Rockin Roddy]

5 pages to go!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

And then I see comments like this that don't offer any help or even try to reason why there isn't a problem....are you just trolling here Deane??

 

Just letting you all know, in my own special way, that I don't think that anything constructive will come of this thread and that I am counting down the pages until it digresses to the point the moderator will shut it down.

 

Think of me as the time keeper.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

 

THANKS for clarifying Deane, but I truly hope you are wrong on the outcome of this thread!!

 

RW...I hate it when someone comes in and pretends nothing is wrong when it's quite obvious to many there IS a problem. You brought yourself to this thread, so surely you can find your way out...if you feel we're just wasting your time!

[+sbell111]

Much ado about nothing.

Look at the big picture.

A few gay priests didn't bring down the churches

A few rogue truck drivers didn't kill the Teamsters

A few crooked lawyers didn't... well, they probably did

A few bad geocachers won't kill our game.

 

All we can do is take responsibility for ourselves and leave what we touch in life better than we found it and we won't have to worry about our image.

The people you need to refer to are called "pedophiles". Gay does not equal pedophile. Pedophiles are not exclusive to any one orientation. ...

Be careful when you correct the thoughts of others. Actively gay priests that ignore their vows are a very real problem. Certainly not as harmful as pedophilia, but important, none the less.

 

As to the rest of it, I see TAR's point. We will never be able to change every behavior that we disagree with. Also, I believe that these 'bad acts' are much fewer and typically less severe than the forum rants make them appear.

Sexually active heterosexual priests that ignore their vows are a problem as well. I'm sure there are gay priests that have kept their vows, and have never harmed a child in their lives. The original statement quoted above does not differentiate between pedophile and gay. Again they are two different things.

 

I really don't think the OP even meant it to sound as biased as it did, but biased it was.

The post didn't mention pedophilia, at all. You read that into it. Edited January 27, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

...The brush fire analogy is that little problems tend to become bigger problems if they are not dealt with when they are little....

There is very little proof that rogue geocachers are such a concern that the sport is in danger, even at the brush fire stage. Yes, there are dangers when small problems are overlooked. There are also dangers when minor issues get elevated to an unreasonable stature. Real problems get side-lined.

The Anza-Borrego Desert State Park controversy does not appear to be about detrimental behavior of rogue geocachers but about the land manager's general policy towards geocaching. The agency appears to believe that even legitimate geocaching is harmful. I would think that is the real issue the local geocaching crowd needs to address.

 

Overall geocaching is growing each year, by leaps and bounds. More and more areas are becoming open to the sport, not less. The actions of a few rogues have not changed this. There really are more bigger issues to worry about.

And you know this based on what knowledge and experience? For someone that has been a member since 04, but rarely caches, I think your out of the proverbial loop. Have you not followed any of the past threads about geocaching being banned in great areas, because of a few knotheads?

He's not as active as you, so he doesn't get an opinion? I've been playing longer and have more finds per year. Do I get to have an opinion? If so, here it is: I agree with rlridgeway.

 

BTW, isn'tthere already an active thread about Anza-Borrego? Why don't you take discussion of AB back over to that thread?

5 pages to go!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

And then I see comments like this that don't offer any help or even try to reason why there isn't a problem....are you just trolling here Deane??

Just letting you all know, in my own special way, that I don't think that anything constructive will come of this thread and that I am counting down the pages until it digresses to the point the moderator will shut it down.

 

Think of me as the time keeper.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

THANKS for clarifying Deane, but I truly hope you are wrong on the outcome of this thread!!

 

RW...I hate it when someone comes in and pretends nothing is wrong when it's quite obvious to many there IS a problem. You brought yourself to this thread, so surely you can find your way out...if you feel we're just wasting your time!

You are not in a position to decide who can and cannot post in the thread.

[+TrailGators]

...The brush fire analogy is that little problems tend to become bigger problems if they are not dealt with when they are little....

There is very little proof that rogue geocachers are such a concern that the sport is in danger, even at the brush fire stage. Yes, there are dangers when small problems are overlooked. There are also dangers when minor issues get elevated to an unreasonable stature. Real problems get side-lined.

The Anza-Borrego Desert State Park controversy does not appear to be about detrimental behavior of rogue geocachers but about the land manager's general policy towards geocaching. The agency appears to believe that even legitimate geocaching is harmful. I would think that is the real issue the local geocaching crowd needs to address.

 

Overall geocaching is growing each year, by leaps and bounds. More and more areas are becoming open to the sport, not less. The actions of a few rogues have not changed this. There really are more bigger issues to worry about.

And you know this based on what knowledge and experience? For someone that has been a member since 04, but rarely caches, I think your out of the proverbial loop. Have you not followed any of the past threads about geocaching being banned in great areas, because of a few knotheads?

He's not as active as you, so he doesn't get an opinion? I've been playing longer and have more finds per year. Do I get to have an opinion? If so, here it is: I agree with rlridgeway.

Let's chill out guys. This issue is not always black and white. It can involve one or many factors. There are knuckleheads that do stupid things (hiders and finders). There is also a misunderstanding of geocaching by some rangers/landowners. There are also people that secretly email/talk to rangers that get them falsely alarmed. These factors can all come together to form the perfect storm. This is what most likely happened in ABDSP. This will happen elsewhere unless we are proactive and tighten things up in areas where the landowners/rangers are looking for an excuse.

[+Kit Fox]

BTW, isn'tthere already an active thread about Anza-Borrego? Why don't you take discussion of AB back over to that thread?

 

Your worthless opinion was duly noted, however what is happening at AB is directly related to this topic.

 

RW...I hate it when someone comes in and pretends nothing is wrong when it's quite obvious to many there IS a problem. You brought yourself to this thread, so surely you can find your way out...if you feel we're just wasting your time!

You are not in a position to decide who can and cannot post in the thread.

 

Since he is clearly off topic, and he is intentionally trying to derail the thread, there is nothing wrong with asking him to troll in another thread.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+briansnat]

But I see a bigger problem with cachers that place illegal caches. It has gotten to the point that if I got out and find 10 caches in a day at least one will be buried or screwed into private peoperty. Not to mention two the I have found placed next to live wires behind electrical cover plates on lamp post.

If anything is going to hurt geocaching in the future it will be idiots that hide caches like this.

new cachers tend to copy what they see others do.

Yesterday I had time to find three caches, one of those was buried. Dont get wet

 

Well one of the problems is that rarely are these rogue caches reported. You'll see one found it log after another without a mention of the guideline violations.

Edited January 27, 2008 by briansnat

[+TrailGators]

But I see a bigger problem with cachers that place illegal caches. It has gotten to the point that if I got out and find 10 caches in a day at least one will be buried or screwed into private peoperty. Not to mention two the I have found placed next to live wires behind electrical cover plates on lamp post.

If anything is going to hurt geocaching in the future it will be idiots that hide caches like this.

new cachers tend to copy what they see others do.

Yesterday I had time to find three caches, one of those was buried. Dont get wet

 

Well one of the problems is that rarely are these rouge caches reported. You'll see one found it log after another without a mention of the guideline violations.

A guy with over 6400 finds even logged that cache saying: "I spotted this one right away since I have found this type of hide numerous times before."

 

It's clear that people don't report caches because nobody wants to be the bad guy. The system needs to let people anonymously comment on caches like they can for bookmarks. If you see 4 thumbs downs on a cache page with comments that say "This cache violates the guidelines because _______," then the message might start to get through.

Edited January 27, 2008 by TrailGators

[+sbell111]

BTW, isn'tthere already an active thread about Anza-Borrego? Why don't you take discussion of AB back over to that thread?

Your worthless opinion was duly noted, however what is happening at AB is directly related to this topic.

 

RW...I hate it when someone comes in and pretends nothing is wrong when it's quite obvious to many there IS a problem. You brought yourself to this thread, so surely you can find your way out...if you feel we're just wasting your time!

You are not in a position to decide who can and cannot post in the thread.

Since he is clearly off topic, and he is intentionally trying to derail the thread, there is nothing wrong with asking him to troll in another thread.

I see, now a person has to not only be experienced but agree with you to have a valid opinion. It's amusing that you post your bile and have the nerve to call other people 'trolls'.

[+Snake & Rooster]

 

Well one of the problems is that rarely are these rouge caches reported. You'll see one found it log after another without a mention of the guideline violations.

 

 

Must..........resist.........must.........resist.......

 

Sorry, briansnat. I don't know what came over me.

[+briansnat]

But I see a bigger problem with cachers that place illegal caches. It has gotten to the point that if I got out and find 10 caches in a day at least one will be buried or screwed into private peoperty. Not to mention two the I have found placed next to live wires behind electrical cover plates on lamp post.

If anything is going to hurt geocaching in the future it will be idiots that hide caches like this.

new cachers tend to copy what they see others do.

Yesterday I had time to find three caches, one of those was buried. Dont get wet

 

Well one of the problems is that rarely are these rogue caches reported. You'll see one found it log after another without a mention of the guideline violations.

A guy with over 6400 finds even logged that cache saying: "I spotted this one right away since I have found this type of hide numerous times before."

 

It's clear that people don't report caches because nobody wants to be the bad guy. The system needs to let people anonymously comment on caches like they can for bookmarks. If you see 4 thumbs downs on a cache page with comments that say "This cache violates the guidelines because _______," then the message might start to get through.

 

Nothing keeping people from sending an e-mail directly to the reviewer if they don't want to log a public SBA.

[+team moxiepup]

Much ado about nothing.

Look at the big picture.

A few gay priests didn't bring down the churches

A few rogue truck drivers didn't kill the Teamsters

A few crooked lawyers didn't... well, they probably did

A few bad geocachers won't kill our game.

 

All we can do is take responsibility for ourselves and leave what we touch in life better than we found it and we won't have to worry about our image.

The people you need to refer to are called "pedophiles". Gay does not equal pedophile. Pedophiles are not exclusive to any one orientation. ...

Be careful when you correct the thoughts of others. Actively gay priests that ignore their vows are a very real problem. Certainly not as harmful as pedophilia, but important, none the less.

 

As to the rest of it, I see TAR's point. We will never be able to change every behavior that we disagree with. Also, I believe that these 'bad acts' are much fewer and typically less severe than the forum rants make them appear.

Sexually active heterosexual priests that ignore their vows are a problem as well. I'm sure there are gay priests that have kept their vows, and have never harmed a child in their lives. The original statement quoted above does not differentiate between pedophile and gay. Again they are two different things.

 

I really don't think the OP even meant it to sound as biased as it did, but biased it was.

The post didn't mention pedophilia, at all. You read that into it.

 

Come off it! There are four groups of people mentioned; priests, truck drivers, lawyers, and geocachers. All have an adjective in front of them. Crooked, rogue, bad and "gay". Gee... do you think he meant gay in a negative way? The gay priests who have not committed any crime, are included with those who have. The post didn't mention pedophilia, but it was implied.

[+Team Cotati]

Does a geocache hidden on or under an electric, traffic control, telecommunications or other utility box, constitue a possible violation of the guidelines?

 

Does a geocache crammed between a memorial or dedication plaque and the side of a structure, constitute a possible violation of the guidelines?

 

Does a geocache placed on or under the water distribution piping of municipal water systems, constitute a possible violation of the guidelines?

 

Does a geocache placed on, under or in close proximity to fuel storage tanks, constitute a possible violation of the guidelines?

Edited January 27, 2008 by Team Cotati

[+briansnat]

Come off it! There are four groups of people mentioned; priests, truck drivers, lawyers, and geocachers. All have an adjective in front of them. Crooked, rogue, bad and "gay". Gee... do you think he meant gay in a negative way? The gay priests who have not committed any crime, are included with those who have. The post didn't mention pedophilia, but it was implied.

 

Talk about on topic

[+briansnat]

Does a geocache hidden on or under an electric, traffic control, telecommunications or other utility box, constitue a violation of the guidelines?

 

You question can be answered here.

[+sbell111]

Much ado about nothing.

Look at the big picture.

A few gay priests didn't bring down the churches

A few rogue truck drivers didn't kill the Teamsters

A few crooked lawyers didn't... well, they probably did

A few bad geocachers won't kill our game.

 

All we can do is take responsibility for ourselves and leave what we touch in life better than we found it and we won't have to worry about our image.

The people you need to refer to are called "pedophiles". Gay does not equal pedophile. Pedophiles are not exclusive to any one orientation. ...

Be careful when you correct the thoughts of others. Actively gay priests that ignore their vows are a very real problem. Certainly not as harmful as pedophilia, but important, none the less.

 

As to the rest of it, I see TAR's point. We will never be able to change every behavior that we disagree with. Also, I believe that these 'bad acts' are much fewer and typically less severe than the forum rants make them appear.

Sexually active heterosexual priests that ignore their vows are a problem as well. I'm sure there are gay priests that have kept their vows, and have never harmed a child in their lives. The original statement quoted above does not differentiate between pedophile and gay. Again they are two different things.

 

I really don't think the OP even meant it to sound as biased as it did, but biased it was.

The post didn't mention pedophilia, at all. You read that into it.

Come off it! There are four groups of people mentioned; priests, truck drivers, lawyers, and geocachers. All have an adjective in front of them. Crooked, rogue, bad and "gay". Gee... do you think he meant gay in a negative way? The gay priests who have not committed any crime, are included with those who have. The post didn't mention pedophilia, but it was implied.

Honestly, when I read 'gay', I immediately thought 'actively gay'. After all, who cares if a priest is gay or straight, if he is following his vows? When it becomes an issue is when a priest chooses not to keep his vows. The issue of pedophilia is completely different, in my mind.

[+Kit Fox]

I see, now a person has to not only be experienced but agree with you to have a valid opinion. It's amusing that you post your bile and have the nerve to call other people 'trolls'.

 

Um nice try but you're still wrong. Once again your making false assumptions.

 

I found it hard to believe that the cacher from WV had no idea of all the problems / confrontations with land managers. I never said he was inexperienced.

 

As for the other poster, he never contributed anything pertinent to the thread, only his "countdown till death." I asked him to stick to the actual topic, but he was unable, or unwilling.

 

I've personally emailed reviewers on many occasions to report caches that violate guidelines and or state/ federal laws. The majority of the time, the reviewer actual agreed with me, and archived the caches.

[+TrailGators]

But I see a bigger problem with cachers that place illegal caches. It has gotten to the point that if I got out and find 10 caches in a day at least one will be buried or screwed into private peoperty. Not to mention two the I have found placed next to live wires behind electrical cover plates on lamp post.

If anything is going to hurt geocaching in the future it will be idiots that hide caches like this.

new cachers tend to copy what they see others do.

Yesterday I had time to find three caches, one of those was buried. Dont get wet

Well one of the problems is that rarely are these rogue caches reported. You'll see one found it log after another without a mention of the guideline violations.

A guy with over 6400 finds even logged that cache saying: "I spotted this one right away since I have found this type of hide numerous times before."

 

It's clear that people don't report caches because nobody wants to be the bad guy. The system needs to let people anonymously comment on caches like they can for bookmarks. If you see 4 thumbs downs on a cache page with comments that say "This cache violates the guidelines because _______," then the message might start to get through.

Nothing keeping people from sending an e-mail directly to the reviewer if they don't want to log a public SBA.

Something must be because people "have found this type of hide numerous times before."

[+team moxiepup]

Come off it! There are four groups of people mentioned; priests, truck drivers, lawyers, and geocachers. All have an adjective in front of them. Crooked, rogue, bad and "gay". Gee... do you think he meant gay in a negative way? The gay priests who have not committed any crime, are included with those who have. The post didn't mention pedophilia, but it was implied.

 

Talk about on topic

 

I wish you had included the post of sbell's, to which I was replying. I had made attempts to stay on topic, but sometimes, you have to respond against an injustice. Someone earlier had posted a good quotation-

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke

 

I couldn't, in this case, do nothing. Gays have been blamed for much that isn't reflective of most gay people. Had someone made an anti black, anti woman, or anti any religion post, I would hope that someone would stand up and try to set the record straight as well. It puts me in mind of a poem by Martin Niemöller

 

"First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Communist.

 

Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Jew.

 

Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up,

because I was a Protestant.

 

Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left

to speak up for me. "

 

I spoke up. I got back on topic. Some people understood, some did not. I tried to explain, then got back on topic. Some still don't understand. I wish to stay on topic, but can't remain silent when faced with prejudice.

[Keystone]

It was all downhill after the pedophilia posts, and bottomed out when opinions were called "worthless." Closing train wreck.