+Team Cotati Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Lord help me, I do love this thread. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun. You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I want cache hiders to be encouraged to raise the bar a bit with their hides. Instead of putting the in the 7-Eleven lot, use the park across the street. Instead of hiding it in another Walmart lamp post, hide it next to the hidden stream that flows through the ravine alongside the parking lot. Instead of hiding it in the bushes in front of Burger King, put in it in the pocket park two doors down. Rather that sticking it on a random spot on a random guardraill, put it next to that historical marker a half mile down the road. That's all.BTW, have you considered simply having an event that rewards great caches and challenging others to hide great caches? Certainly, if people agree with you, and accept your leadership, they will accept your challenge. Sure, this isn't going to result in everyone hiding only caches that you love, but I think that it would be incredible egotistical to expect cachers to only hide those caches that please you. Also, I think that you need to accept some responsibility for your happiness. Therefore, you should expect to have to do SOME work to avoid caches that make you unhappy. Quote Link to comment
+egami Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun. You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun. I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 You might also follow TrailGator's lead and work with your local group to develop a 'best of' list. Perhaps you could call it the 'Good Enough for BS' list. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun. You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun.I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual.While I agree with you somewhat, I would argue that the primary element in determining that you are having fun is your attitude. A good attitude, combined with some simple sorting, can almost always guarantee a good time. Quote Link to comment
+TexasGringo Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ***A good attitude, combined with some simple sorting, can almost always guarantee a good time.*** You mean I can't have a good time with a rotten attitude? Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ***A good attitude, combined with some simple sorting, can almost always guarantee a good time.*** You mean I can't have a good time with a rotten attitude? Some people in this very thread appear to be proving that they can have a good time with a rotten attitude. Quote Link to comment
+egami Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun. You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun.I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual.While I agree with you somewhat, I would argue that the primary element in determining that you are having fun is your attitude. A good attitude, combined with some simple sorting, can almost always guarantee a good time. I am not saying you are wrong. I agree attitude is very important...I was mainly making the distinction that outside factors do play a role. We probably disagree on what amount, but that probably varies by individual anyway. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun. You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun.I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual.While I agree with you somewhat, I would argue that the primary element in determining that you are having fun is your attitude. A good attitude, combined with some simple sorting, can almost always guarantee a good time.I am not saying you are wrong. I agree attitude is very important...I was mainly making the distinction that outside factors do play a role. We probably disagree on what amount, but that probably varies by individual anyway.I agree. Of course, if a person could sort out many of those outside factors and chooses not to, he gets what he gets. Edited January 31, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+egami Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun. You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun.I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual.While I agree with you somewhat, I would argue that the primary element in determining that you are having fun is your attitude. A good attitude, combined with some simple sorting, can almost always guarantee a good time.I am not saying you are wrong. I agree attitude is very important...I was mainly making the distinction that outside factors do play a role. We probably disagree on what amount, but that probably varies by individual anyway.I agree. Of course, if a person could sort out many of those outside factors and chooses not to, he gets what he gets. True, however, let's take an extreme example...let's say that 85% of caches in a reasonable area around him aren't what he likes...versus, say in my area it's 30%. That's a significant swing in something you have little control over. I agree, getting motivated and doing educational work to offset this helps, but then...some people don't find that fun. So, at some point you get to a place where you either compromise what's "fun", which I think is an unreasonable expectation depending on the amount needed to compromise to fit into your vicinity, or you simple accept that it's just not as fun as it once was and you are forced to accept that fact. Not that his area is that bad, I don't know, but I get the sense from many individuals they feel like the percentage shift from when they started is fairly significant. You can only have as much fun as is provided around you...you can't just go put a bunch of caches out there for you to find, well technically you can...but they won't find that as fun. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I want cache hiders to be encouraged to raise the bar a bit with their hides. Instead of putting the in the 7-Eleven lot, use the park across the street. What if there isn't a park across the street? What if the cacher wanted his cache in the 7-Eleven lot? Doesn't a cacher get to choose where to place his cache, as long as the guidelines are met?.... blah, blah blah, blahi I think you mis-interpreted "encourage" to mean "force". Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun. You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun.I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual.While I agree with you somewhat, I would argue that the primary element in determining that you are having fun is your attitude. A good attitude, combined with some simple sorting, can almost always guarantee a good time.I am not saying you are wrong. I agree attitude is very important...I was mainly making the distinction that outside factors do play a role. We probably disagree on what amount, but that probably varies by individual anyway.I agree. Of course, if a person could sort out many of those outside factors and chooses not to, he gets what he gets.True, however, let's take an extreme example...let's say that 85% of caches in a reasonable area around him aren't what he likes...versus, say in my area it's 30%. That's a significant swing in something you have little control over. I agree, getting motivated and doing educational work to offset this helps, but then...some people don't find that fun. So, at some point you get to a place where you either compromise what's "fun", which I think is an unreasonable expectation depending on the amount needed to compromise to fit into your vicinity, or you simple accept that it's just not as fun as it once was and you are forced to accept that fact. I would suggest that it would be easier to mold the local cachers to one's desires than the small subset of worldwide cachers occupying the forums. The gc.com forums are not where local change comes from. Not that his area is that bad, I don't know, but I get the sense from many individuals they feel like the percentage shift from when they started is fairly significant. You can only have as much fun as is provided around you...you can't just go put a bunch of caches out there for you to find, well technically you can...but they won't find that as fun. That only becomes an issue if 1) you find all 30%, 2) you choose not to expand your caching area, and 3) no other caches are hidden during the time that you find the 30%. If all of the caches in a person's area are caches that he doesn't like and he can't (or won't) convince anyone in his area to see it his way, perhaps the problem is not with the game, but the player. If the game does not provide the cacher with enjoyment and the local cachers do not enjoy the same kinds of caches as the individual, perhaps the game is not for him. Edited January 31, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) I want cache hiders to be encouraged to raise the bar a bit with their hides. Instead of putting the in the 7-Eleven lot, use the park across the street. What if there isn't a park across the street? What if the cacher wanted his cache in the 7-Eleven lot? Doesn't a cacher get to choose where to place his cache, as long as the guidelines are met?.... blah, blah blah, blahi I think you mis-interpreted "encourage" to mean "force".Based on your posts, I think you might have miscommunicated 'force' as 'encourage'. BTW, there were lots of questions in my post. They were not rhetorical. Edited January 31, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+egami Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I would suggest that it would be easier to mold the local cachers to one's desires than the small subset of worldwide cachers occupying the forums. The gc.com forums are not where local change comes from. True, but then again, having a more broad audience here to hear your views doesn't hurt either. Not that his area is that bad, I don't know, but I get the sense from many individuals they feel like the percentage shift from when they started is fairly significant. You can only have as much fun as is provided around you...you can't just go put a bunch of caches out there for you to find, well technically you can...but they won't find that as fun. That only becomes an issue if 1) you find all 30%, 2) you choose not to expand your caching area, and 3) no other caches are hidden during the time that you find the 30%. If all of the caches in a person's area are caches that he doesn't like and he can't (or won't) convince anyone in his area to see it his way, perhaps the problem is not with the game, but the player. If the game does not provide the cacher with enjoyment and the local cachers do not enjoy the same kinds of caches as the individual, perhaps the game is not for him. It becomes an issue anytime the lack of perceived quality in the number of caches significantly goes to the other end of the spectrum over a course of time. I am not saying the "playa" may not be the issue...again, the point was merely to make the distinction that it's not JUST the "playa" and their attitude and that there are other factors to take into the equation. Quote Link to comment
+graldrich Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 To me it is not about the size of the cache or what the cache contains,it is about the thrill of the hunt and getting out of the house doing something with friends and or family ! Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) I would suggest that it would be easier to mold the local cachers to one's desires than the small subset of worldwide cachers occupying the forums. The gc.com forums are not where local change comes from. True, but then again, having a more broad audience here to hear your views doesn't hurt either.I disagree. Locally, people might hide a few caches to help BS out. On here, all it is is rabble. rabble rabble rabble Not that his area is that bad, I don't know, but I get the sense from many individuals they feel like the percentage shift from when they started is fairly significant. You can only have as much fun as is provided around you...you can't just go put a bunch of caches out there for you to find, well technically you can...but they won't find that as fun.That only becomes an issue if 1) you find all 30%, 2) you choose not to expand your caching area, and 3) no other caches are hidden during the time that you find the 30%. If all of the caches in a person's area are caches that he doesn't like and he can't (or won't) convince anyone in his area to see it his way, perhaps the problem is not with the game, but the player. If the game does not provide the cacher with enjoyment and the local cachers do not enjoy the same kinds of caches as the individual, perhaps the game is not for him. It becomes an issue anytime the lack of perceived quality in the number of caches significantly goes to the other end of the spectrum over a course of time.I totally understand what you are sasying, but I think that our perceptions and memories never match reality.I am not saying the "playa" may not be the issue...again, the point was merely to make the distinction that it's not JUST the "playa" and their attitude and that there are other factors to take into the equation.Agreed. That's why I suggested that in addition to maintaining a good attitude, it's important to use the tools provided to maximize one's caching enjoyment. Also, I'm glad that I changed 'playa' before you replied. Edited January 31, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+egami Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Also, I'm glad that I changed 'playa' before you replied. lol, I was like "man, that doesn't seem like him", but I thought it would be fun to capture it! Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ...I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual. Nope. Just their responce to those elements. You get out of caching what you bring to it. If you are not having fun the problem isn't normally the caches. It's your approach to caching. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Also, I'm glad that I changed 'playa' before you replied. lol, I was like "man, that doesn't seem like him", but I thought it would be fun to capture it! I originally threw it in there for you Iowans, but I thought better of it and made the change. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ...I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual. Nope. Just their responce to those elements. You get out of caching what you bring to it. If you are not having fun the problem isn't normally the caches. It's your approach to caching. That sounds like the reason that I have so many DNFs. It's not the caches, it's my brain. Quote Link to comment
+egami Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Also, I'm glad that I changed 'playa' before you replied. lol, I was like "man, that doesn't seem like him", but I thought it would be fun to capture it! I originally threw it in there for you Iowans, but I thought better of it and made the change. We're down like that, word. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Also, I'm glad that I changed 'playa' before you replied. lol, I was like "man, that doesn't seem like him", but I thought it would be fun to capture it! I originally threw it in there for you Iowans, but I thought better of it and made the change. We're down like that, word. Ummm, yeah. I'm picking up what you are throwing down. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ...That sounds like the reason that I have so many DNFs. It's not the caches, it's my brain. I have the same problem. The cache is there but I'm not able to find the dang thing. It's there to be found after all. Is my lack of skill the caches fault? But I can find a Fat Tire in the cold section on the way home right after finding the wally world micro in the parking lot, that lets me feel better about my caching finding skills. I hate micro's on general principal, but ending a string of DNF's on a wally world micro gets a thumbs up in my book. Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 As Briansnat has explained: The way he wants to play the game is to load up an all-inclusive mass of blind cache coordinates and head out the door while not watching where he is going … AND not being disappointed. That’s what he wants That is a misrepresentation of what I have been saying. Either you haven't understood my posts, or you are deliberately mis-stating my position. I never said I wanted to go caching blind and expect to never be disappointed... To be fair, though, Briansnat doesn't really fall into the "Ban-The-Micros!" category ... he simply wants his non-micros served up to him without having to read the menu. Again another mis-representation of my position. If I have misrepresented your position, it was not intentional. What would be the point in that? For the gajillionth time: I am doing my dead-level best to understand your point of view. Despite my future Psychic Of The Year accomplishment (in 2009) I am currently having trouble read your mind for some reason. All I can do is go by the many descriptions of your viewpoint you have posted. A few examples: What I always enjoyed the most about geocaching was loading my unit with cache waypoints and letting it guide me to interesting places. For the first few years I could do this. There was no need for research ... It happens to be the way I enjoy the sport. I don't want to spend hours in front of my PC researching every potential cache hunt. That takes the fun out of it for me. The thing I loved about geocaching and what drew me to the sport in the first place, was that when I traveled to a new area I could load my unit with cache waypoints and use it as a sort of tour guide to the area. Most caches were placed in spots that offered something other than a smiley, so all I had to do was select a waypoint, press GOTO and enjoy the day. I loved the sense of adventure and discovery and all the offbeat, pretty, educational, or interesting places that geocaching would bring me. Sure there was a clunker every now and then, but 9 out of 10 caches were in the kinds of places that the locals liked to show off. I can no longer play the game the way I enjoy it. Instead I'm told I need to do research, I need to check sat photos, I need to look at maps, I need to filter micros, I need to filter 1/1 caches, I need to lower my expectations, etc. None of these methods work for me, so instead I'm at the point where I often don't even bother geocaching when I travel. The spew has ruined the sport for me. This aversion to pre-caching homework is another thing that has me confused It was the sense of surprise and discovery that I enjoyed so much. Load the GPS up with waypoints and go ... The need to research every cache hunt to me takes the fun out of it. Besides if I'm researching every cache hunt, where is the sense of surprise and adventure? I have taken your words at face value. If there was something else written between the lines in your many posts, then maybe you‘ll need to spell it out more plainly for me. I’m apparently not smart enough to read between the lines. Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 By the way, you never answered this question (I highlighted it this time): If it is strictly a fascinating place to visit, OTOH, then it is a Waymark -- or if it's not, it should be. It's obvious that you don't understand Waymarking. I'm not surprised. Instead of insulting and attacking me personally, why not enlighten me? Tell me exactly why Waymarking would NOT provide a more dependable list of tour guide locations for you to visit than these 9 out of 10 geocaches that persistently keep disappointing you. I'm only trying to understand your point of view on this, Briansnat. It was your public complaint that prompted me to do so. If my doing so is bothering you so much that you feel the need to insult me, then I'll happily drop it. Your choice. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I agree that Waymarking could certainly help someone who is interested in 'tour guide' geocaching. A person wouldn't have to give up geocaching to take advantage of this. They could simply use interesting waymarks to target interesting areas to look for caches. Load up your GPSr with an areas caches and interesting waymarks for the area. Go check out a waymark that you already know your interested in and then find the nearby caches. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 why not enlighten me? Tell me exactly why Waymarking would NOT provide a more dependable list of tour guide locations for you to visit than these 9 out of 10 geocaches that persistently keep disappointing you. As I mentioned earlier, I enjoyed the sense of adventure and surprise, not knowing what neat kind of place my GPS would take me to. While Waymarking is a great way to see sights you essentially know what you are looking for before you get there. Waymarking is also geared toward things. I enjoy places as well as things. That serene spot on a river bank, that picturesque place in the middle of the woods, that pretty little pond behind the shopping mall. The kinds of spots that are unlikely to be waymarks, but make perfect spots for a geocache. Finally, there is no container to hunt when looking for waymarks. I was never a big fan of virtuals and waymarks are just virtuals. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 why not enlighten me? Tell me exactly why Waymarking would NOT provide a more dependable list of tour guide locations for you to visit than these 9 out of 10 geocaches that persistently keep disappointing you. As I mentioned earlier, I enjoyed the sense of adventure and surprise, not knowing what neat kind of place my GPS would take me to. While Waymarking is a great way to see sights you essentially know what you are looking for before you get there. Waymarking is also geared toward things. I enjoy places as well as things. That serene spot on a river bank, that picturesque place in the middle of the woods, that pretty little pond behind the shopping mall. The kinds of spots that are unlikely to be waymarks, but make perfect spots for a geocache. Finally, there is no container to hunt when looking for waymarks. I was never a big fan of virtuals and waymarks are just virtuals. Could you comment on my related suggestion? Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Now show me where it says it is Geocaching's primary purpose to take people to interesting locations, or that all Geocaches are intended to be placed only in those settings.While I cannot show you what you are asking, I think that the way the author of the FAQ starts the section "Where are Caches Found?": Where are caches found? The location of a cache can be very entertaining indeed. As many say, location, location, location! While there are no requirements for a good location, apparently it is important. At least it was decided that the impression of good locations be communicated to those who are just getting started.A great view, historical spot or other unique location is always welcome, but is not a requirement for me or folks like me to be able to enjoy a cache. As best I can determine, none of those things is a requirement for a cache to be listed on this site either.Nope, not a requirement, but I think as we place caches we should keep in mind that each cache has the potential of being someone's first cache ever. Shouldn't we put our best foot forward? I'm not recommending the elimination of "bad" (for lack of a better word) locations by policy, but am advocating that cache hiders think about impressions their cache will make. Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 A great view, historical spot or other unique location is always welcome, but is not a requirement for me or folks like me to be able to enjoy a cache. As best I can determine, none of those things is a requirement for a cache to be listed on this site either. Nope, not a requirement, but I think as we place caches we should keep in mind that each cache has the potential of being someone's first cache ever. Shouldn't we put our best foot forward? I did. Didn’t you? Doesn’t everybody? Do you really, really think there is a cache hider out there who doesn’t believe he was putting his best foot forward when he placed his cache? If a hider doesn’t have some reason to be proud of his hide, then why would he have had it published? Just because his taste or his standards might be different from yours doesn’t mean he isn’t excited about his own cache. I’ve never read a cache page that described a cache as "Eh ... whatever ... it’s a cache I guess ... it’s better that a poke in the eye with a sharp stick." Conversely, I’ve long ago lost count of the number of descriptions I’ve read which said something like: "This is our first hide. Please let us know how we did!" I think it is mighty presumptuous, even snobbish, to ever assume that any cache hider doesn't believe he is putting his best foot forward; or that any particular cache is lame in the eyes of the person who placed it. Maybe it has happened, but I have never observed such a cache directly, nor have I ever heard of one. Cache owners hide caches because they believe someone will be entertained, not because they think their cache is sub-standard. You must admit that even the "This Cache Is Lame" theme that the snob-types have started putting out (as a means of teaching by bad example) have an entertaining concept. (I personally think they're very funny. There is one near me, and the logs are priceless.) I'm not recommending the elimination of "bad" (for lack of a better word) locations by policy, but am advocating that cache hiders think about impressions their cache will make. Impressions? The first lamp post skirt-lifter micro I ever found made a profound impression on me. I had spent at least twenty minutes poking around the bushes at the edge of that parking lot, and was just about to give up, when it occurred to me to inspect the nearby light pole a little more closely. Wow – I had no freaking idea those things could be moved like that! I was not only impressed; I was considerably entertained! At that location there was zero historical significance, no striking view ... nothing at all to write home about other than the cache. The enjoyment of the cache came from the hide method itself. I experienced similarly euphoric eureka moments when I found my very first guard rail micro, my very first fake sprinkler head micro, etc. None of those hides were in notable or photo-able locations, yet each of them provided me with priceless entertainment. These days after having seen dozens and dozens of them I now simply consider such hides kitsch, but I still value them for what they are: A secret; a hidden log book; a smiley waiting to happen; a potentially euphoric eureka moment for the next newbie cacher who had no freaking idea those things could be moved like that! If you wish to advocate the idea that cache hiders should think about the impressions their caches will make, then be careful what you ask for. Be prepared for newbies who find themselves greatly impressed, as I was, with guard rail and lamp post hides ... and who then go out and mimic them. I was dadgum proud of my first fake sprinkler head. As I said before: A groovy location is always welcome, but it is not a requirement for me (or folks like me) to be able to enjoy a cache. Cleverness requires no historical marker. Being in on a secret requires no postcard view. Confirming that you’ve correctly solved some brain-bending cache puzzle by successfully finding the hidden container is gloriously satisfying whether there’s a waterfall there or not. I agree with you that distinguishing one’s cache hide is a noble ideal. Preaching that ideal to others might be satisfying for you, but I don’t think the concept even needs to be advocated – I think it is naturally intuitive to people that a good cache hide is one which somehow sets itself apart in the memory of the finder. Just keep in mind that there is a wide variety of experience and creativity among our fellow volunteer amateur cache hiders, and therefore a wide variety of ideas as to what "memorable" means. Not all cache hiders are as veteran and sophisticated as you and me. Quote Link to comment
+DrAwKwArD Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Do you really, really think there is a cache hider out there who doesn’t believe he was putting his best foot forward when he placed his cache? If a hider doesn’t have some reason to be proud of his hide, then why would he have had it published? Being proud of one's cache isn't mandatory in the guidelines. Just because his taste or his standards might be different from yours doesn’t mean he isn’t excited about his own cache. Being excited about a cache is in no way related to quality of the placement. It could simply be excitement about who will be FTF, STF, etc.. I’ve never read a cache page that described a cache as "Eh ... whatever ... it’s a cache I guess ... it’s better that a poke in the eye with a sharp stick." I've seen plenty of cache descriptions that say basically what you penned. Of course, not everyone is gifted with flattering descriptions. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Do you really, really think there is a cache hider out there who doesn’t believe he was putting his best foot forward when he placed his cache? I do. I see it on the cache page. "Just a quick smiley", "Nothing special here but a quick smiley", "No reason except this Wally World didn't have a cache", "As far as caches go, this probably isn't the best nor the worst", "This cache is not going to be hard to find, nothing really special about it", "Quick park & grab for the numbers!", "Just another crappy park N grab." " A simple cache and dash and another smiley for you", "Just as the name says pointless and ridiculous", "Yet another dumb guardrail cache" So no, I don't think every cache hider thinks he's putting his best foot forward whenever he places a cache. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Do you really, really think there is a cache hider out there who doesn’t believe he was putting his best foot forward when he placed his cache? I do. I see it on the cache page. "Just a quick smiley", "Nothing special here but a quick smiley", "No reason except this Wally World didn't have a cache", "As far as caches go, this probably isn't the best nor the worst", "This cache is not going to be hard to find, nothing really special about it", "Quick park & grab for the numbers!", "Just another crappy park N grab." " A simple cache and dash and another smiley for you", "Just as the name says pointless and ridiculous", "Yet another dumb guardrail cache" So no, I don't think every cache hider thinks he's putting his best foot forward whenever he places a cache. At least they are clearly identified as caches that you won't enjoy. I assume that you put those on your ignore list, rather than trying to find them. If I were you, I'd also ignore other caches by those hiders. Edited February 1, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+TeamGumbo Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I hate micro's on general principal, but ending a string of DNF's on a wally world micro gets a thumbs up in my book. sig line Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Do you really, really think there is a cache hider out there who doesn’t believe he was putting his best foot forward when he placed his cache? I do. I see it on the cache page. "Just a quick smiley", "Nothing special here but a quick smiley", "No reason except this Wally World didn't have a cache", "As far as caches go, this probably isn't the best nor the worst", "This cache is not going to be hard to find, nothing really special about it", "Quick park & grab for the numbers!", "Just another crappy park N grab." " A simple cache and dash and another smiley for you", "Just as the name says pointless and ridiculous", "Yet another dumb guardrail cache" So no, I don't think every cache hider thinks he's putting his best foot forward whenever he places a cache. At least they are clearly identified as caches that you won't enjoy. I assume that you put those on your ignore list, rather than trying to find them. If I were you, I'd also ignore other caches by those hiders. I would but they were all in places that I'm unlikely to visit. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Do you really, really think there is a cache hider out there who doesn’t believe he was putting his best foot forward when he placed his cache? I do. I see it on the cache page. "Just a quick smiley", "Nothing special here but a quick smiley", "No reason except this Wally World didn't have a cache", "As far as caches go, this probably isn't the best nor the worst", "This cache is not going to be hard to find, nothing really special about it", "Quick park & grab for the numbers!", "Just another crappy park N grab." " A simple cache and dash and another smiley for you", "Just as the name says pointless and ridiculous", "Yet another dumb guardrail cache" So no, I don't think every cache hider thinks he's putting his best foot forward whenever he places a cache. At least they are clearly identified as caches that you won't enjoy. I assume that you put those on your ignore list, rather than trying to find them. If I were you, I'd also ignore other caches by those hiders. I would but they were all in places that I'm unlikely to visit. Just so I understand, you don't want to have to presort the caches that you look for, but you read the cache pages of caches that you have no intention to look for? Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Do you really, really think there is a cache hider out there who doesn’t believe he was putting his best foot forward when he placed his cache? I do. I see it on the cache page. "Just a quick smiley", "Nothing special here but a quick smiley", "No reason except this Wally World didn't have a cache", "As far as caches go, this probably isn't the best nor the worst", "This cache is not going to be hard to find, nothing really special about it", "Quick park & grab for the numbers!", "Just another crappy park N grab." " A simple cache and dash and another smiley for you", "Just as the name says pointless and ridiculous", "Yet another dumb guardrail cache" So no, I don't think every cache hider thinks he's putting his best foot forward whenever he places a cache. I’ll concede that one. For some folks, including me most days, any cache is better than no cache. I personally think that is a plenty valid reason to place a hide. I wouldn't place such a hide myself, but I like finding them, and as I said, not every cache hider is as veteran and sophisticated as Too Tall John and me. I also think that if an owner is modest enough to downplay the worth of his own cache that doesn’t necessarily mean he believes his cache is worthless, but ... this is all really WAY off the point. The point: You maintain that the primary purpose of caching is to be a tour guide service. You don't allow that bringing you to an interesting location is a pleasantly frequent yet unrequired byproduct of geocaching; you clearly believe it should be the primary purpose, and that all worthwhile caches should be located in interesting spots. You have made this very clear. I reject that claim. Like you, I like when caches take me to neat places, but I disagree that the primary purpose of caching is to be a tour guide service. I have supported my rebuttal with plenty of reason, common sense, and references to online documentation. You have not countered my rebuttal. All you have done is point out that I was overly hasty in claiming that every cacher is proud of his cache. Good work – you caught me in a mistake. It was late, and I was tired. You seem to believe that a cache hide is no good unless the location itself is acceptably attractive independent of the container. Could you please post something convincing in support of that premise? Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 You have not countered my rebuttal. All you have done is point out that I was overly hasty in claiming that every cacher is proud of his cache. Good work – you caught me in a mistake. It was late, and I was tired. How can you rebut my feelings? It's quite simple. I used to enjoy geocaching in a certain manner. I can no longer do that thanks to the spew. You can suggest alternatives. That doesn't get me back the sport I enjoyed in the manner I preferred to enjoy it. End of story. Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 why not enlighten me? Tell me exactly why Waymarking would NOT provide a more dependable list of tour guide locations for you to visit than these 9 out of 10 geocaches that persistently keep disappointing you. As I mentioned earlier, I enjoyed the sense of adventure and surprise, not knowing what neat kind of place my GPS would take me to. While Waymarking is a great way to see sights you essentially know what you are looking for before you get there. You could always load up your GPS full of pre-sorted Waymarks without first reading anything about them (the same way you prefer to do Geocaches); that way the surprise could be preserved. Waymarking is also geared toward things. I enjoy places as well as things. That serene spot on a river bank, that picturesque place in the middle of the woods, that pretty little pond behind the shopping mall. The kinds of spots that are unlikely to be waymarks, but make perfect spots for a geocache. There must be other internet sources of those types of places other than this website. Why couldn’t you use some other source of tour guide info to narrow down your target spots first, and then look at your GPS to see what cache hides are nearby? Why would you instead choose to keep being disappointed at Geocaching for not doing what it never promised to do? Oh wait, I forgot, you don’t like doing any research. You want other people to already know what you want and then take you there without your having to provide any input in the process. Finally, there is no container to hunt when looking for waymarks. I was never a big fan of virtuals and waymarks are just virtuals. Again, once you pick the spot, just check your PQ-loaded GPS for nearby cache hides. I’m sorry I can’t help you any more than that because I’m a pathetically unsophisticated non-paperless cacher myself, but I’m sure Sbell or any of the several other knowledgeable paperless experts could assist you with the details. What you say you want: - Acceptably interesting locations - Geocache containers to find at those interesting locations - Absolutely no homework required to get you there. - Cache hiders to respect your aesthetic preference, regardless whether or not you respect theirs. I will admit that after reading your last couple of posts I actually have a teeny tiny little bit of sympathy for you now. I understand your dissatisfaction a little more clearly, but I still say you are asking too much from this hobby. Geocaching simply provides a way to find amateur-hidden containers using GPS; everything else is gravy. You are demanding something that, whether it ever existed or not, was never promised in the first place. Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 You have not countered my rebuttal. All you have done is point out that I was overly hasty in claiming that every cacher is proud of his cache. Good work – you caught me in a mistake. It was late, and I was tired. How can you rebut my feelings? It's quite simple. I used to enjoy geocaching in a certain manner. I can no longer do that thanks to the spew. You can suggest alternatives. That doesn't get me back the sport I enjoyed in the manner I preferred to enjoy it. End of story. I see. You don't think the primary purpose of caching is to be a tour guide service -- you "feel" the primary purpose of caching is to be a tour guide service. Does that mean you understand, on some deep-down yet rational level, that your expectation is unrealistic? Is that the difference? The pastime you used to enjoy never went away. It is still there. The caches you loved in the golden era, whenever that was, are still being placed in ever-increasing numbers. If there happens to also be a corresponding increase in the number of hides you prefer not to hunt, then it is up to you to either (1) come up with a convenient and workable way (of which there are plenty) to separate the wheat from the chaff, or (2) gripe about it while the rest of us are out having fun. Your choice. End of story. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 You have not countered my rebuttal. All you have done is point out that I was overly hasty in claiming that every cacher is proud of his cache. Good work – you caught me in a mistake. It was late, and I was tired. How can you rebut my feelings? It's quite simple. I used to enjoy geocaching in a certain manner. I can no longer do that thanks to the spew. You can suggest alternatives. That doesn't get me back the sport I enjoyed in the manner I preferred to enjoy it. End of story. You either want to debate the issue, in which case a rebuttal by someone else is totally appropriate, or you just want to state your feelings and let it be. If you merely wanted to state your feelings and not discuss teh issue, why are you still participating in the thread? Quote Link to comment
+KBI Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 You have not countered my rebuttal. All you have done is point out that I was overly hasty in claiming that every cacher is proud of his cache. Good work – you caught me in a mistake. It was late, and I was tired. How can you rebut my feelings? It's quite simple. I used to enjoy geocaching in a certain manner. I can no longer do that thanks to the spew. You can suggest alternatives. That doesn't get me back the sport I enjoyed in the manner I preferred to enjoy it. End of story. You either want to debate the issue, in which case a rebuttal by someone else is totally appropriate, or you just want to state your feelings and let it be. If you merely wanted to state your feelings and not discuss teh issue, why are you still participating in the thread? That’s a good question, but: "Rebuttal" probably wasn’t the best choice of words on my part. The word rebuttal implies debate, and I do not view this exchange between Briansnat and me as a debate. It’s just a conversation. He expressed an opinion. He described his frustration, and attempted to explain the reasons for his frustration. I only want to understand his viewpoint – his underlying thinking that causes him to choose to remain frustrated instead of (1) accepting reality, (2) helping himself or (3) accepting help from others. There have been elements of debate in our exchange. While it might be accurate to point out that he made an implied claim ("Hidden geocache containers are unacceptable unless they also serve as a tour guide") without offering any supporting logic or evidence, and while I challenged that claim without ever hearing any convincing responses, my primary reason for participating here has been to understand the thought process behind Briansnat’s dilemma. My participation here has been worthwhile – for me at least. While I am no closer to grasping his underlying reasoning, I have in fact gained a better understanding of what, exactly, it is that annoys him. Were I ever to find myself similarly annoyed, however, I doubt I would deal with the annoyance the same way he has chosen to – hence my persistent bewilderment at his posts. Quote Link to comment
+Radnord Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Wow, thanks for "sharing" that scenic guardrail in the K-Mart parking lot with me! That was one darned rewarding experience! I can't wait for the dumpster behind the KFC, or the newspaper dispenser in the strip mall! At the risk of sounding like I'm going off topic, or sounding like I'm creating a Straw Man, to those that can't see the parallel... Have you ever gone into a library and picked up a book that you wouldn't like, and maybe thought was lame? If so, did you: 1) Choose to skip it instead of reading it, and kept looking for books you would like, 2) Read it anyway, but then complained about all the lame books in the library, 3) Call for a book burning to make sure that other people visiting the library wouldn't have that book to choose from anymore, since it's obviously such a lame book and they should enjoy reading other books instead? Well put! "Those who know what's best for us, must rise and save us from ourselves." Expecting that the entire game should be substantially changed just to satisfy your unrealistic demand for convenience is simply unreasonable, in my opinion. The game has substantially changed to convenience the numbers hounds. I have a perfect right to complain, since it has impacted my game. I know, without a doubt, that I am almost guaranteed to enjoy every cache I find and you know what? I do. Exactly how has it impacted "your" game? It hasn't impacted "my" game, except to give me more options I too enjoy almost all, and I even enjoy the one's I don't like, and that is the point; each hunt is what you make it. This thread really needs to be put to rest. The game will be what it will be... Edited February 13, 2008 by Radnord Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Wow, thanks for "sharing" that scenic guardrail in the K-Mart parking lot with me! That was one darned rewarding experience! I can't wait for the dumpster behind the KFC, or the newspaper dispenser in the strip mall! At the risk of sounding like I'm going off topic, or sounding like I'm creating a Straw Man, to those that can't see the parallel... Have you ever gone into a library and picked up a book that you wouldn't like, and maybe thought was lame? If so, did you: 1) Choose to skip it instead of reading it, and kept looking for books you would like, 2) Read it anyway, but then complained about all the lame books in the library, 3) Call for a book burning to make sure that other people visiting the library wouldn't have that book to choose from anymore, since it's obviously such a lame book and they should enjoy reading other books instead? Well put! "Those who know what's best for us, must rise and save us from ourselves." Expecting that the entire game should be substantially changed just to satisfy your unrealistic demand for convenience is simply unreasonable, in my opinion.The game has substantially changed to convenience the numbers hounds. I have a perfect right to complain, since it has impacted my game. I know, without a doubt, that I am almost guaranteed to enjoy every cache I find and you know what? I do. Exactly how has it impacted "your" game?It hasn't impacted "my" game, except to give me more options I too enjoy almost all, and I even enjoy the one's I don't like, and that is the point; each hunt is what you make it. This thread really needs to be put to rest. The game will be what it will be... You bumped a thread that had been dead for two weeks to comment that it should be put to rest? Edited February 13, 2008 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
jholly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well, I guess it is better than starting a NEW thread. Oh, dear, I just bumped it. Jim Quote Link to comment
jholly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) darn web site Edited February 13, 2008 by jholly Quote Link to comment
jholly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) still darn web site Edited February 13, 2008 by jholly Quote Link to comment
+ReadyOrNot Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 still darn web site If the site is sitting and spinning, it's best to just let it error out. Your reply will still get posted and you wont have 3 identical posts Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Wow, thanks for "sharing" that scenic guardrail in the K-Mart parking lot with me! That was one darned rewarding experience! I can't wait for the dumpster behind the KFC, or the newspaper dispenser in the strip mall! At the risk of sounding like I'm going off topic, or sounding like I'm creating a Straw Man, to those that can't see the parallel... Have you ever gone into a library and picked up a book that you wouldn't like, and maybe thought was lame? If so, did you: 1) Choose to skip it instead of reading it, and kept looking for books you would like, 2) Read it anyway, but then complained about all the lame books in the library, 3) Call for a book burning to make sure that other people visiting the library wouldn't have that book to choose from anymore, since it's obviously such a lame book and they should enjoy reading other books instead? Well put! "Those who know what's best for us, must rise and save us from ourselves." Expecting that the entire game should be substantially changed just to satisfy your unrealistic demand for convenience is simply unreasonable, in my opinion.The game has substantially changed to convenience the numbers hounds. I have a perfect right to complain, since it has impacted my game. I know, without a doubt, that I am almost guaranteed to enjoy every cache I find and you know what? I do. Exactly how has it impacted "your" game?It hasn't impacted "my" game, except to give me more options I too enjoy almost all, and I even enjoy the one's I don't like, and that is the point; each hunt is what you make it. This thread really needs to be put to rest. The game will be what it will be... You bumped a thread that had been dead for two weeks to comment that it should be put to rest? After he gets the last word, of course. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.