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Found Cache, Couldn't Get It Dislodged


hallycat
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I know this is going to get a ton of answers to the pro and con, however I want to see them.

 

I found a micro yesterday, it was inside of something vertically. and although the description said to bring a spoon to get it I was unable to bring it up far enough to retrieve it and sign the log. A take out store plastic spoon was not the right type :D I logged the find saying I would try again to sign the log next time I was nearby and had a different implement to retrieve.

Was I wrong to log it as a find?

 

I have in the past logged finds where there was nothing to sign with and I didn't have anything. Also logged finds caching with others where THEY actually found the cache and I claimed it as a find. So how is this different? I know the FAQ's say you are supposed to sign the log...however sometimes the log is full or wet or in a jar that you can't open.

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Was I wrong to log it as a find?

IMHO, yes. However, the final decision is between you and the cache owner.

 

I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't allow it on one of our caches. It's my personal opinion--and experience has told me it shared by others--it that if you don't sign a viable log then it's not a find.

 

Even then, many folks, when confronted with a less-than-viable logbook will leave a substitute.

 

Folks who forget a pen will improvise one.

 

If you can't get the container open then it's an unfortunate situation where you either can't figure out a puzzle or the owner needs to do maintenance. You come back when you can overcome that obstacle.

 

If you plan on coming back to sign the log anyway, why put your reputation on the line with a false find? Doesn't make sense.

 

Why would you care about your reputation? Say you log a DNF. An owner might ignore it because you log finds on caches you think you've found. Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't, but that could very well be the perception. What about logging an SBA? Can folks believe you? What are folks thinking about you at that next event?

 

The bottom line is this: is that smilie worth more than your reputation? That choice is yours alone to make.

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Not sure I'd log a DNF as they obviously did find it. I wouldn't log a find either though.

I reckon I'd probably add a note to say I'd been there and would return to log the find with better implements.

 

TheWife

HoweFamily

It's a micro(film can) in a pipe. It's not a puzzle as to how to get it out. It's just too thin for most peoples fingers to get ahold of it. Hence the spoon suggestion to get under and lift it. I'd email the owner but he hasn't logged in here since Nov 06 and left a note that he'd moved away and can we all babysit the cache. Doubt he would answer. I will do it now anyway.I wouldn't even have brought this up but someone left a note on the cache page that kind of dissed me for logging it.

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I know this is going to get a ton of answers to the pro and con, however I want to see them.

 

I found a micro yesterday, it was inside of something vertically. and although the description said to bring a spoon to get it I was unable to bring it up far enough to retrieve it and sign the log. A take out store plastic spoon was not the right type :D I logged the find saying I would try again to sign the log next time I was nearby and had a different implement to retrieve.

Was I wrong to log it as a find?

 

I have in the past logged finds where there was nothing to sign with and I didn't have anything. Also logged finds caching with others where THEY actually found the cache and I claimed it as a find. So how is this different? I know the FAQ's say you are supposed to sign the log...however sometimes the log is full or wet or in a jar that you can't open.

I certainly do not know about your action being "wrong", but I certainly would not have done that. To me (and to most cachers whom I know) what you experienced that day was a Did Not Find, aka a DNF, and thus, I would have simply filed a rather humorous DNF log note online. I wish you luck in retrieving the cache in the future!

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I had a similar problem with a micro in a pipe. The pipe was too small to get my fingers around the cache, and I didn't have a spoon or other tool to get it out with. I did find, however, that I could pop the lid off of the film canister and then grab hold of it better from the inside.

 

There's always more than one way to solve a problem.

 

Reminds me of a racoon in the book, "Where the Red Fern Grows." It was so bent on getting that shiny object out of a hole that was too small, that it stayed there and persisted even when the hunter approached. I can imagine it saying, "I'm not leaving until I log a find!"

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I had a similar problem with a micro in a pipe. The pipe was too small to get my fingers around the cache, and I didn't have a spoon or other tool to get it out with. I did find, however, that I could pop the lid off of the film canister and then grab hold of it better from the inside.

 

There's always more than one way to solve a problem.

 

Reminds me of a racoon in the book, "Where the Red Fern Grows." It was so bent on getting that shiny object out of a hole that was too small, that it stayed there and persisted even when the hunter approached. I can imagine it saying, "I'm not leaving until I log a find!"

 

If I pop the top off it might fall into the bottom and be lost, seems there is a bolt holding the canister in place. I will return with some tongs next time. Also, had this not been a busy street I might have tried harder but then usually micros are in busy areas aren't they.

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I'm assuming this is NOT one of those caches where you float the micro container to the top by pouring in water?

Everyone has differenct standards. i wouldn't log it as a find if I couldn't open the container. I DID log a find recently where I found a bison tube that just had some old leaves or something in it. I first logged a note cuz I thought it was just a decoy and the "real" cache was further up the tree. When I found out the bison tube was the real deal, I logged it as a find. OTOH, I've found the exact location of a missing cache several times and not logged a find even when encouraged to do so by the owner. Once, the owner even put my name on the log in a replacement cache, which I discovered when I went back and found it for real!

So the point is, a find is whatever you and the owner agree it is.

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I know this is going to get a ton of answers to the pro and con, however I want to see them.

 

I found a micro yesterday, it was inside of something vertically. and although the description said to bring a spoon to get it I was unable to bring it up far enough to retrieve it and sign the log. A take out store plastic spoon was not the right type :D I logged the find saying I would try again to sign the log next time I was nearby and had a different implement to retrieve.

Was I wrong to log it as a find?

 

I have in the past logged finds where there was nothing to sign with and I didn't have anything. Also logged finds caching with others where THEY actually found the cache and I claimed it as a find. So how is this different? I know the FAQ's say you are supposed to sign the log...however sometimes the log is full or wet or in a jar that you can't open.

I'm in this camp. :D

I certainly do not know about your action being "wrong", but I certainly would not have done that. To me (and to most cachers whom I know) what you experienced that day was a Did Not Find, aka a DNF, and thus, I would have simply filed a rather humorous DNF log note online. I wish you luck in retrieving the cache in the future!

 

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What cache are you talking about? I looked in your profile and see the two that you found yesterday. Neither are micros nor any problems that you speak of...

 

Was your log deleted?

 

It was changed to a note:

 

I changed the found to a note. I do not believe it's a DNF, but of course that is also up for debate.

Thanks for all the replies. I will remedy this cache find next week.

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What cache are you talking about? I looked in your profile and see the two that you found yesterday. Neither are micros nor any problems that you speak of...

 

Was your log deleted?

 

It was No Commercial Vehicles and I noted above that I changed my log to a note. It's a community of cachers here and I don't want to be on the bad side of it. One of the cachers left a note basically calling me out.

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It's a micro(film can) in a pipe. It's not a puzzle as to how to get it out. It's just too thin for most peoples fingers to get ahold of it. Hence the spoon suggestion to get under and lift it. I'd email the owner but he hasn't logged in here since Nov 06 and left a note that he'd moved away and can we all babysit the cache. Doubt he would answer. I will do it now anyway.I wouldn't even have brought this up but someone left a note on the cache page that kind of dissed me for logging it.

Well now... the owner's gone and doesn't maintain the cache?? Why don't we ALL log it? The logs will never be deleted! Similarly, there's an old Virtual near here with no logging requirements, so theoretically ANYONE can log it as a find whether they've visited the spot or not.

 

Seriously, I agree with others and now with the OP. I found a "floating" type cache in a pipe in Elizabethtown, KY. You have to fill the pipe with water from a nearby creek to float the container out... but both the pipe and the provided water pitcher have large holes in them. So it requires multiple cachers, or duct tape, and I didn't have either with me. So I DNF'd it and kept moving. In the same park I found a micro catch where the container was filled to the brim with water (loose top) and the log was soaked and mushy. Removing it would have probably seriously damaged the log, so I didn't try. But since I COULD have removed it, I logged it as a find.

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I found (see) a micro in a very high muggle area, and scratching it out would have alerted muggles and endangered the cache. I logged the find without signing as I feel my objective had been achieved. There would be no extra fun in coming back just to sign it.

 

A cache that is intact but the log too wet to sign I would also log as a find, as I feel I achieved my part of the objective.

 

A cache in pieces I would log as DNF as it is not there anymore.

 

If a cache requires flotation/spoons/other devices and I did not find it because I did not have the devices I would log a DNF (objective not achieved).

 

As a cache owner I cannot see myself removing somebody's find log if it did not fit my ideas - it really is up to the user what they want to make of the game.

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I found (see) a micro in a very high muggle area, and scratching it out would have alerted muggles and endangered the cache. I logged the find without signing as I feel my objective had been achieved. There would be no extra fun in coming back just to sign it.

And driving by a playground with children playing there, not wanting to alarm anyone I chose not to search for the cache but should I log a find?

Part of the challenge of high traffic/high muggle areas is finding a way not to look conspicuous. Pretended cell phone conversations, fake hard hats and orange vests, or coming back at a more friendly caching time would allow a secure find.

Getting back to the OP's issue though.... the hider giving you advice on what type of equipment to use i.e. a spoon.... you bring a plastic spoon..... kinda like saying, bring a rope.... and you bring a 10' length of clothes line.... brought the equipment as requested, didn't know it would be a 100' repel, can I score the cache? You brought the wrong type of equipment and didn't retrieve the cache. Not necessarily a DNF but a DNL. Leave a note.

Edited by SGT red jeep
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If I pop the top off it might fall into the bottom and be lost, seems there is a bolt holding the canister in place. I will return with some tongs next time. Also, had this not been a busy street I might have tried harder but then usually micros are in busy areas aren't they.

It does sound like retrieving the cache is part of the challenge so a note or dnf would be proper.

 

On a side note: I havn't been to find this cache of course but it does sound like the perfect one to use a piece of stiff wire or coat hanger on. Bend a right angle, probabaly less than half an inch at the end, then push it down past the cache, turn so the right angle is behind the cache, then pull it straight out. Just sounds like it may be easier than trying to use a spoon or tongs... :laughing:

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IMHO -

The key here is in trying to understand what the owner intended - and that can almost always be easily inferred.

 

If I find a cache in a condition - not intended by the owner - where signing the log is not possible, I have no problem logging it as a find and informing the owner of the circumstances. This includes wet or missing logs, damaged containers, missing containers with "cache remains" still present or containers that cannot be freed from their location. An example that comes to mind is an ammo box that was wedged between beams on top of a railroad trestle. The beams had swelled in the rain and the box wouldn't budge when I found it.

 

I won't log a find if I can't thoroughly search the area or if I otherwise can't retrieve the cache as intended by the owner. Examples include areas currently underwater due to rains or blocked off due to construction as well as caches for which I don't have the tools or creativity to reach.

 

This seems more cut and dried than people are making it. I'm at peace with how I cache and haven't had any problems with cache owners.

Edited by Spunkmeyer
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IMHO -

The key here is in trying to understand what the owner intended - and that can almost always be easily inferred.

 

If I find a cache in a condition - not intended by the owner - where signing the log is not possible, I have no problem logging it as a find and informing the owner of the circumstances. This includes wet or missing logs, damaged containers, missing containers with "cache remains" still present or containers that cannot be freed from their location. An example that comes to mind is an ammo box that was wedged between beams on top of a railroad trestle. The beams had swelled in the rain and the box wouldn't budge when I found it.

 

I won't log a find if I can't thoroughly search the area or if I otherwise can't retrieve the cache as intended by the owner. Examples include areas currently underwater due to rains or blocked off due to construction as well as caches for which I don't have the tools or creativity to reach.

 

This seems more cut and dried than people are making it. I'm at peace with how I cache and haven't had any problems with cache owners.

 

I would like to weigh in on this subject and provide my 2c.

 

I currently have a disability (severe hand injury to my dominant right hand) and do find some containers VERY difficult because of my injury. Even though I found the cache and I can tell it matches the size in the listing, matches a general description etc etc and I can not open it, I still feel like I found the cache. I do agree with many posters saying that checking with the cache owner is the best policy before posting a smiley, but in my mind I have found the cache.

 

Caches that I have found and could not open were some PVC pipe caches with a threaded lid where it was too difficult to open with my hand and a half. I do not let my accident keep me from enjoying a sport I love just because I am unable to physically open the container and sign the logbook.

 

Just my 2c :P

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