To ask or Not to Ask. That's the Question

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

I've found a good spot for a cache. The only problem is that it's on the grounds of a historic building.

 

The historic building and grounds are council owned, are open the the public free of charge all year round. The majority of the time the building is closed but you can enter the grounds via an unlocked gate to walk round the building (if it's closed) and the grounds.

 

The question is do I ask the council for permission to place a cache on the grounds?

 

WHY OF COURSE YOU SHOULD I HEAR YOU ALL SHOUT............I know I should........but here's the problem.

 

I use to metal detect, any historic finds I use to mark with my GPS and inform the local historian...(every council has one) and ask if they wanted the find for the local museum, most of the times it was 'no thanks'. Anyway, I used to metal detect on council grounds, parks, the local downs etc. One day I thought I'd just ask the council if they had a problem with me doing this!!!! You know, do the right thing, model citizen and all that!

 

The reply was that they had no policy on metal detecting but as I'd contacted them and made them aware that people were metal detecting on council property they were going to ban it.....which they duely did!!!!!!! ME AND MY BIG MOUTH.

 

So my worry is that if I make the council aware that there are geocaches in local parks and downs they'll ban it. "Bits of plastic hidden in woodland! People enjoying themselves. We can't have that.........IT'S BANNED"

 

So.....do I ask or not?

 

TLHM

[Edgemaster]

You should ask - you cannot place the cache otherwise.

 

Some local councils have given explicit permission in the past, check the GAGB GLAD for a full list, it may prove helpful to name a few examples of places where it is allowed.

 

For more assistance, check the GAGB forums for draft letters and previous experience.

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

You should ask - you cannot place the cache otherwise.

 

 

Well............all I can say is that cache's have been placed on the local downs (council property not FC) and the local and county council are not on the GAGB list, so I guess permission hasn't been given and those caches were placed OK!

 

After going through what I went through with the council and metal detecting I'm very dubious about approaching them about geocaching.........once bitten twice shy.............is it better to let sleeping dogs lie?

 

The options are: -

1. Not approach the council

2. Approach the council and get permission..yehaaaa

3. Approach the council, not get permission and remove all the geocaches already placed

4. Approach the council, not get permission, ignore it and carry on.

 

Being a model citizen it should be options 2 and 3 but after already trying to be a model citizen and getting kicked in the teeth option 1 sounds good!

 

TLHM

[Nediam]

.....Well............all I can say is that cache's have been placed on the local downs (council property not FC) and the local and county council are not on the GAGB list, so I guess permission hasn't been given and those caches were placed OK!....

 

Why not e-mail the owners of some of the caches already on council land. You can explain your situation and ask them who they got permission from

 

Just because the council isn't on the GAGB list, it doesn't mean that the owners haven't been granted permission.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Nediam

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

 

Why not e-mail the owners of some of the caches already on council land. You can explain your situation and ask them who they got permission from

 

Just because the council isn't on the GAGB list, it doesn't mean that the owners haven't been granted permission.

 

The owners moved out of the area sometime ago and can't be contacted!

 

How many people have placed a cache on or near a public footpath? Did you get permission?.......I bet not and the cache was allowed. The premis is that because it's public and we're allowed to walk on it, we're allowed to hide things on it........are we? Has anyone asked? Who owns a public footpath anyway, they must be owned by someone? Who maintains the signs?

 

I think I'm opening a can of worms here, I wish I hadn't started it. I'll just keep my mouth shut

[+scanker]

My understanding is that the GAGB list is for blanket permissions, i.e. where specific permission isn't necessary as a blanket agreement is in place. I might be wrong though.

 

I've placed 4 cache so far in parks owned by Cardiff County Council. I have permission, but CCC isn't in the GAGB list as I have to send a form in for each cache I place. I haven't got a green light to place caches where I want (although I did ask about that).

Edited August 8, 2007 by scanker

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

My understanding is that the GAGB list is for blanket permissions, i.e. where specific permission isn't necessary as a blanket agreement is in place. I might be wrong though.

 

I've placed 4 cache so far in parks owned by Cardiff County Council. I have permission, but CCC isn't in the GAGB list as I have to send a form in for each cache I place. I haven't got a green light to place caches where I want (although I did ask about that).

 

OK, I'm going to bite the bullet and send a letter to the local council.........fingers crossed.

[Red Squadron]

OK, I'm going to bite the bullet and send a letter to the local council.........fingers crossed.

 

I dont suppose there is already a Geocacher that works in the Council Offices that you could approach first ?

[+scanker]

I never said it would be easy though.

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

 

I dont suppose there is already a Geocacher that works in the Council Offices that you could approach first ?

 

Blimey, that sound ominous! You mean you have to have friends in high places, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, to be able to place a cache!!!!!!

[+Bill D (wwh)]

As scanker says, the GAGB Landowner Permissions database is a record of agreements GAGB have negotiated or that we've been informed of - it doesn't include permissions granted for individual caches.

 

You may find getting permission for the cache is a slow process, but if you're successful you will have paved the way for further permission for caches on land owned by the same authority, and you could even open up the possibility of a blanket agreement with them. If you find you need any help along the way feel free to contact me through my profile.

 

---

Bill, Chairman GAGB

[+OldNickCov]

You may find getting permission for the cache is a slow process, but ...

 

I'll say.

 

This thread has reminded me to chase up a discussion I was having with Coventry Council on the matter. On checking, I discovered that my first request to them was made a year ago yesterday.

 

No one has said no, so I'm chasing it up again.

 

[edited for spelling]

Edited August 8, 2007 by OldNickCov

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

 

No one has said no, so I'm chasing it up again.

 

Good point. So what if no matter how hard you try you never get an answer? Do you go ahead anyway?

 

Contractually 'Silence' is not agreement........blimey! That contracts part of the accounting qualification did come in handy

 

BTW. I've just sent the council and email, got an auto-reply, does that count as a 'Yes'?

[+dino-irl]

Another method is to find out who is the person in charge of maintaining the area, gardener/whatever and speak to them about it. They'll probably not care and thereby you have permission from someone with a certain amount of authority and if it's accidentally found will be able to back you up. Keep an eye open for the guys cutting grass and ask them who is in charge

[+OldNickCov]

You may find getting permission for the cache is a slow process, but ...

I'll say.

 

This thread has reminded me to chase up a discussion I was having with Coventry Council on the matter. On checking, I discovered that my first request to them was made a year ago yesterday.

 

No one has said no, so I'm chasing it up again.

 

Having chased it up, copied to both the person I'd first contacted, and with the person she'd passed it on to, I got the following response this morning...

"My apologies I thought I had responded. We would not have any issue with your venture on the basis that the "geocaching" activity does not result in any physical damage to Council property or present any risk to public health and safety."

 

That's from the Community Parks Service Manager of my local council. so I'd call that a yes.

[+keehotee]

The owners moved out of the area sometime ago and can't be contacted!

So presumably they're no longer caching.......?

You could adopt their caches - then ask yourself about permission (haha)

[+Mr'D]

So.....do I ask or not?

If you don't like dropping litter... then ask

[+Bear and Ragged]

Another method is to find out who is the person in charge of maintaining the area, gardener/whatever and speak to them about it. They'll probably not care and thereby you have permission from someone with a certain amount of authority and if it's accidentally found will be able to back you up. Keep an eye open for the guys cutting grass and ask them who is in charge

 

This is a good suggestion. If they want to pass it along/up to a higher authority they should know who to contact.

 

And as they do the maintenance grass cutting etc. in the area they should be aware of any hidden cache so they dont throw it away as rubbish!

 

G

[+Bill D (wwh)]

You may find getting permission for the cache is a slow process, but ...

I'll say.

 

This thread has reminded me to chase up a discussion I was having with Coventry Council on the matter. On checking, I discovered that my first request to them was made a year ago yesterday.

 

No one has said no, so I'm chasing it up again.

 

Having chased it up, copied to both the person I'd first contacted, and with the person she'd passed it on to, I got the following response this morning...

"My apologies I thought I had responded. We would not have any issue with your venture on the basis that the "geocaching" activity does not result in any physical damage to Council property or present any risk to public health and safety."

 

That's from the Community Parks Service Manager of my local council. so I'd call that a yes.

Definitely a yes...! Congratulations!

[+Dizzley]

@Lavender Hill Mob -

 

 

The GAGB have a template letter here: http://www.gagb.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1048 if that's any use.

[+The Lavender Hill Mob]

The owners moved out of the area sometime ago and can't be contacted!

So presumably they're no longer caching.......?

You could adopt their caches - then ask yourself about permission (haha)

The owners are no longer caching.

 

I did ask if I could adopt but I was told that adopting is no longer accepted and that I'd have to create new caches at each site..................so I just put the existing caches on my watch list.......when anything is logged as wrong with them I'll either archive or go and fix, seemed to be easier!

 

Cheers

 

TLHM

[+The Wombles]

If you check the GAGB agreements database (link in my sig) you will find that a very small proportion of landowners actually say no. Having said that, the first ever GAGB negotiation took a full year and I'm still working others which will be longer. We need to take the view that it's just a matter of time and perseverance....