Proposed New Cache Type - Seed Cache

[+Blue Grass Tom]

Hi! Blue Grass Tom from Iowa here. I'd like to briefly tell you about an idea I have that I've been bouncing off some fellow cachers. The concern is keeping a supply of new caches available and rising gas prices. We've found that many of us in the Quad-Cities (Easter Iowa-Western Illinois) and the surrounding radius of up to 90 miles are encountering this problem. Here are the components:

 

1) The supply of caches in many areas of the state is not sufficient to support continued geocaching in the immediate areas. This is especially true in lower population areas like ours.

2) This necessitates traveling outside the immediate areas where many of us reside.

3) For many, this problem intersects with rising gasoline prices. I'm fortunate that this is not a problem for me, but it is for many friends.

4) To counter the prices, many cachers are engaging in team caching.

5) Team caching results in more finds per trip than when caching alone.

6) This in turn exacerbates the problem in #1 above.

 

Now, there is one easy answer to this, and that would be if every cacher in a reasonably equal way would hide caches. You and I both know that more people like "finding" much more than "hiding." So, that alone rules out the equal amount of hides for each cacher. We are not an area like Chicago or Los Angeles or other large cities where the supply of hides is not endangered, due to the sheer numbers or participants.

 

NEW CATEGORY: So all of the above is preface to this proposal of a new geocache category - the Seed Cache. It would generally be classified as a Large cache size-wise (a 5-gallon plastic container) and would be stocked with a number of various sized caches like decon containers, camo peanut butter jars (plastic), etc. TO RECEIVE CREDIT for the seed cache, you take a container, fill it with a little swag and post it on geocaching.com. When published, you notify the Seed Cache owner with a link or GC number. It's kind of like sending the photo to the webcam cache owner. I'm thinking of including a bag of laminated small notes for the finders to take and put in their new cache, something on the order of "This cache descended from..." The owner of a Seed Cache makes the commitment of course to keep eating peanut butter, consuming vitamins and other medications, etc. to keep the cache stocked, but when you consider that the average cache in medium populated areas is hit a few times a week, it's not that onerous a task. Plus, with a little thinking you can get friends saving containers for you and there are a lot of commercial places like photo developing departments and paint stores that can help you with empty containers.

 

If Seed Caches were located conveniently like a lot of Travel Bug hotels are, this could help solve the problems of adequate caches in an area. I think once someone begins hiding caches, they might well continue on their own with their own containers.

 

Jeremy, others, what do you think?

[+QuesterMark]

NEW CATEGORY: So all of the above is preface to this proposal of a new geocache category - the Seed Cache. It would generally be classified as a Large cache size-wise (a 5-gallon plastic container) and would be stocked with a number of various sized caches like decon containers, camo peanut butter jars (plastic), etc. TO RECEIVE CREDIT for the seed cache, you take a container, fill it with a little swag and post it on geocaching.com. When published, you notify the Seed Cache owner with a link or GC number. It's kind of like sending the photo to the webcam cache owner. I'm thinking of including a bag of laminated small notes for the finders to take and put in their new cache, something on the order of "This cache descended from..." The owner of a Seed Cache makes the commitment of course to keep eating peanut butter, consuming vitamins and other medications, etc. to keep the cache stocked, but when you consider that the average cache in medium populated areas is hit a few times a week, it's not that onerous a task. Plus, with a little thinking you can get friends saving containers for you and there are a lot of commercial places like photo developing departments and paint stores that can help you with empty containers.

 

If Seed Caches were located conveniently like a lot of Travel Bug hotels are, this could help solve the problems of adequate caches in an area. I think once someone begins hiding caches, they might well continue on their own with their own containers.

 

Jeremy, others, what do you think?

The idea is not new. Around here we have LGNs, Local Geocache Networks, which started with "seed caches". There one for the Solar System and there's one that simulates a computer network... They have lots of rules about placement though.

 

We also have, around here, a bunch of One Degree of Separation caches, started in Oklahoma, I think.

 

Do a search for either of those types just for reference.

Note that you can always leave film cans with blank logs in them as trade items in caches big enough to handle that.

[+Blue Grass Tom]

Thanks for the info! What I'm thinking of is an actual cache classification with its own icon - like a seed of corn, in the style of the one ammo can for a single, the two cans for a multi, the question mark for the mystery/puzzle cache. By formalizing it to this extent, I feel it would really show an endorsement of the idea of all cachers contributing in some fashion back to the sport.

[CoyoteRed]

...others, what do you think?

No. We don't need to encourage more placements with little to no inspiration. Tossing out a cache simply to get a smilie is not a good way to promote healthy growth.

 

If you want more things to do with your GPS Google some alternative games.

[+Knight2000]

No. We don't need to encourage more placements with little to no inspiration. Tossing out a cache simply to get a smilie is not a good way to promote healthy growth.

BINGO.

 

This is from a previous post i made about leaving caches as SWAG.

For a cache to be SWAG usually it is a micro. While i have nothing against micros and like them when cleverly placed, i kind of think of cache placement as children.

 

Most anyone can make a baby, but not everyone should. Or however it goes. Most anyone can hide a cache, but everyone cant make it a decent hide. I didn't quite say this right, but you get where i am going with it.

 

For every crappy cache placed that is just one more area which voids out a 219,000 square feet of possible cache placement area. (If my math is correct.) How many times have your heard that someone found a perfect spot but there was another cache close by so the idea got abandoned?

 

I like it when people think about the hides and tailor them to the situation. I dislike when people are driving in a car and say look a sign/guardrail where we can stick a key holder. When people have to tailor the containers and ideas for each situation- then its hard to anticipate what type of container to leave for SWAG.

 

Maybe i think too much.

 

I have heard of these seed caches. One in particular that used thousands of film canisters. But i think everyone knows that film canister make poor containers. They can work if in the right situation- but honestly i don't think anyone cares.

 

I do applaud your thought and concern though.

[+ve6dave]

I have two caches out in our area that would be "classified" as "seed caches". They are Lil' Mama Cache and CARW2007 - The CARport. Both of these caches have added to, and continue to add to the game in our area and other areas across North America. There currently are approximately 100 caches that are spawns of the two caches. Then again these are small and regular containers, not micros.

 

It's great when you go to a new cache and discover that it is one of the containers that had come from one of your seed caches. It is really interesting to see how different cachers camoflage the containers prior to hiding them.

 

Personally I believe that this style of cache adds to the game otherwise I wouldn't spend the time to devise the cache or go through the continual expense of stocking it. By the way Lil' Mama Cache is 60 litre Rubbermaid container and CARW - The CARport is a 121 litre plastic garbage can, both much larger than a micro.

[+Always & Forever 5]

No. We don't need to encourage more placements with little to no inspiration. Tossing out a cache simply to get a smilie is not a good way to promote healthy growth.

I fail to see in the opening post where the OP encouraged "more placements with little to no inspiration" by his idea. Nor do I think that was his intent. I have found several BGT hides in the past, and his hides are not without thought. Why do you think that's what he's trying to promote?

 

I like the idea, and don't believe anyone would "toss out a cache simply to get a smilie" from this any more than they would already be prone to do.

[+flask]

i have seen some pretty poor results from seed caches.

 

they are an abomination.

[CoyoteRed]

No. We don't need to encourage more placements with little to no inspiration. Tossing out a cache simply to get a smilie is not a good way to promote healthy growth.

I fail to see in the opening post where the OP encouraged "more placements with little to no inspiration" by his idea. Nor do I think that was his intent. I have found several BGT hides in the past, and his hides are not without thought. Why do you think that's what he's trying to promote?

Do you really think everyone who takes a seed from a pod is going to put the same effort in it as BGT? I doubt it.

 

I like the idea, and don't believe anyone would "toss out a cache simply to get a smilie" from this any more than they would already be prone to do.

"...already prone to do" is key. Why encourage such behavior?

 

I'm wondering, do you folks think growth is stifled because of the lack of containers? I think the availability of containers is well below time, drive and commitment when it comes to folks placing quality caches. Additionally, I wonder about the motivation of someone who needs a smilie in order to get them to place a cache.

 

Lastly, anyone who is prone to place a quality cache probably doesn't need the container or the encouragement of a smilie.

[+Theseus]

The Mother of All Caches in Western Massachusetts has spawned 14 caches, which I would have to call a smashing success. I can't vouch for the quality of each one but several of the hiders are familiar cachers whom I'm sure placed excellent hides.

 

I like the idea though I'm not sure a separate cache type is needed.

[+Always & Forever 5]

Do you really think everyone who takes a seed from a pod is going to put the same effort in it as BGT? I doubt it.

I don't know, and neither do you. I know cachers who put out a lot less effort than BGT. And, I know cachers who put out a lot more effort than BGT. Do I think everyone will put in the same effort? Probably not. Do I think some will? Yep. Do I think some will put in more effort? Yep. Nothing to lose then, is there?

 

Again, I don't believe anyone would "toss out a cache simply to get a smilie" from this any more than they would already be prone to do. And, I don't think this idea will encourage such behavior.

 

Lastly, anyone who is prone to place a quality cache probably doesn't need the container or the encouragement of a smilie.

Agreed. That has nothing to do with this being a good or bad idea, though.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Always & Forever 5

[+Knight2000]

I like the idea, and don't believe anyone would "toss out a cache simply to get a smilie" from this any more than they would already be prone to do.

This was in my palm while i was looking for caches yesterday.

 

If given a ready made cache it sure would be lot easier to put it under that lamp post next to the dumpster.

[CoyoteRed]

And, I don't think this idea will encourage such behavior.

For folks who will do nearly anything for a smilie is most certainly would.

[+tozainamboku]

Seed caches have helped getting geocaching jump started is certain areas. In area with an already active community of geocachers, enough caches get placed without this. The group that blame all the evils of geocaching on the numbers make a good point that by having a cache full of micros or small containers results in more micros or small containers being hidden. Perhaps if you had a LARGE cache with stocked ammo cans they wouldn't complain so much

 

I would be opposed to having a special cache type for seed caches. That would encourage placement of seed caches in areas that don't need them and really isn't required to encourage them in areas that do need them. If you feel that a seed cache is needed to get caching going in your area then place it. But don't go asking for changes to the website that might not be beneficial in other areas.

[+StarBrand]

Yes - no need for a special type. Many areas simply do not need any such encourgment. Also these caches tend to proliferate micro caches.

 

 

I have never seen a seed cache full of ammo boxes - but I would like to.....

[+Kealia]

If Seed Caches were located conveniently like a lot of Travel Bug hotels are, this could help solve the problems of adequate caches in an area. I think once someone begins hiding caches, they might well continue on their own with their own containers.

 

Jeremy, others, what do you think?

Part of the issue is how you define "adequate caches". From your post it sounds like quantity is more of a concern that quality. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

...others, what do you think?

No. We don't need to encourage more placements with little to no inspiration. Tossing out a cache simply to get a smilie is not a good way to promote healthy growth.

Agreed.

 

And, I don't think this idea will encourage such behavior.

For folks who will do nearly anything for a smilie is most certainly would.

Agreed here as well.

 

I don't think this warrants a new cache type. Instead of promoting the behavior of "grab one of these, drop it somewhere and mark the coords", why not hold an event and show how to make a cache (various containers, what should go in them, etc.). Talk about placement, what makes a "good hide" and then hand them out?

 

Educating folks and talking about why you want more caches seems like a better way to go than to just leave containers lying around and hope the end result is good.

[+wimseyguy]

Seed caches can be fun, but they don't deserve a special icon.

We used to have an ammo can seed cache here. The owner is with the National Guard, and I guess had access to a decent supply. He tried to keep 2-4 of them in the same hidey hole as the actual cache was. My first ammo can I ever hid came from the Can Can Cache. <sigh>

[+Always & Forever 5]

Part of the issue is how you define "adequate caches". From your post it sounds like quantity is more of a concern that quality. Correct me if I am wrong.

I don’t quite understand the “every cache should take you to a breathtakingly beautiful, fabulous overlook” mindset. Not everybody loads up a backpack with all the water and carbs they can carry, strap on their $400 boots, slather themselves up with insect repellant and sun screen, and take off on a 3-day hike to sign a logbook in a 5/5 cache on top of Mt. St. Helen. Not that there’s anything wrong with a cache like that. On the contrary. But, not everybody is into that.

 

I cache with my wife and three kids, who get the most enjoyment out of trading McToys and then playing on the playground equipment in the local park. Do I live for LPC’s? No. But, I also don’t plan on having to kayak down the Columbia River to reach my next cache, either.

 

Quality of caches should be adequate for the target searcher. If you don’t like to go to 4 parks in one afternoon and find an ammo box hidden in a tree next to the park, don’t go there. Quantity of caches in an area is just as important to some people as quality.

 

If there’s a way to raise the population of caches in the QCA, I say go for it. Not micros, either, but that was never in the OP’s description, was it?

[+TheAprilFools]

Personally I don't think the seed cache is different enough from others to warrant its own type. Maybe an attribute so users can search for caches where they can get free containers.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

Seed caches area a tough one... My caching buddy has left a "pre-made" cache in each of his new hides as a FTF prize. And it is neat to see what gets done with them. Would I want to see a bucket of 200 film canisters spawining lots of uninspired hides... no. No to say that all film canister hides are uninspired ! Some of the most boring finds I've made have been "regulars" thrown in the weeds alongside some rural road. Not too much thought in that one. I like to see the hider put some thought into it, see how they blended the container into it's new home and how the answered the question "why did you bring me here?".

 

DCC

[Mushtang]

I like to see the hider put some thought into it, see how they blended the container into it's new home and how the answered the question "why did you bring me here?".

 

DCC

I've always thought an acceptable answer to that question is, "to find this cache". For me there doesn't have to be anything in addition for me to enjoy finding the cache and logging my find online.

 

If there is something else that I get to see, or some interesting thing about the cache, etc., that's a welcome bonus, but not required for me to enjoy the cache and be appreciative that someone put it out.

 

I like finding caches.

[+Shadow Cachers]

We think it could be a "good thing" . Shelly has had one ready foe sometime now, we are just having a very hard time finding a spot to place it!

[+hawkeyelaw]

I'd like to see this kind of cache added to the website. Many people need extra encouragement to place caches. I know the hassle I have gone through to get caches approved has often seemed to be non-commensurate with the reward. If I could log a find in connection with the hide, that would be a good incentive.

 

I live in a small/medium urban area surrounded by rural counties. I haven't found all the caches in my town, but honestly, in one day I could probably knock the rest of them out. I often find myself traveling to cache (or caching when I travel). On these travels, I'm often struck at how many caches I can find within walking distance of my hotel, conference center, etc., and I find myself wishing that people would place more like that in my town that I could find at lunch and/or within walking distance of downtown.

 

There seems to be a lot of hostility toward micros on these forums. I can't say they are my absolute favorite, but micros are still much better than no caches at all. I think we're all a little too old to be consumed by the idea of finding plastic swag in an ammo box- the real thrill is the hide and the find, and the micro cache tests your skills much, much better.

 

HawkeyeLaw

[+Driver Carries Cache]

I like to see the hider put some thought into it, see how they blended the container into it's new home and how the answered the question "why did you bring me here?".

 

DCC

I've always thought an acceptable answer to that question is, "to find this cache". For me there doesn't have to be anything in addition for me to enjoy finding the cache and logging my find online.

 

If there is something else that I get to see, or some interesting thing about the cache, etc., that's a welcome bonus, but not required for me to enjoy the cache and be appreciative that someone put it out.

 

I like finding caches.

 

I don't disagree with that, one reason to bring someone to a location is a great view, but another completely valid reason would be because the location provided the cover for a really cool, well thought out hide! Scenery or not... a good hide is a good hide .

 

DCC

[lakeuk]

Bilmey US gas prices starting to pinch, thank yourself lucky you're not here in the UK where we pay $7.50 per gallon

[+Prime Suspect]

I'd like to see this kind of cache added to the website. Many people need extra encouragement to place caches. I know the hassle I have gone through to get caches approved has often seemed to be non-commensurate with the reward. If I could log a find in connection with the hide, that would be a good incentive.

 

Nothing's preventing this sort of cache from being put out. Why do they need to be a special type? They're just traditional caches with an ALR. Hardly a reason to anoint it with its own cache type.