OK ethics people

[vtmtnman]

Well they have already thrashed me in here so you might as well read this thread LOL regarding the whole issue or something along the same line

 

LOLOL

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=163889&hl=

Yet again I get blasted about not doing a forum search.... It's funny...Everytime I do one it never returns any matches to the topic.Then whenever I don't do one there's fifteen topics already.

 

wvnewbie-Yes I'm overseas(I'm positive,afterall I did have to get up in the middle of writing this response because a nice big VBIED went off...fun fun),I'm civilian.

 

I think those are the AQ approved caches that some people try and find... I guess the VBIED would be like a moving cache. I'm sure those have been grandfathered in by the AQCaching.com... or you'd only be finding the IED's.

 

The question is... did you log it?

You quoted me so you figure it out

 

I'd be a locationless I think.Find the raty dump truck.Let's hope the next one DNF's as well.

[+Renegade Knight]

....It's better than some who'd just log it and not ask.

 

That's what I used to do on these kinds of caches.

Don't ask, don't tell. Sleep well.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I helped a new cacher place a cache.I don't own the cache,only he does.There's already been an FTF.Can I find it or no?

 

(No this is not hypothetical-There really is a cache I helped with here.PM me for the GC# if you like but I'm not posting it)

 

I'm sure this will surprise you, but I wouldn't log it.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, you are the only one who can defend your (caching) honor, but my personal take on the game is that I go find a box I haven't found before and I sign the logbook after finding it.

 

There's not a lot of grey area in 'my' game.

 

Regardless of the number of hides in your area, this isn't a 'new' hide that you haven't found before. It's a box someone else hid with you as a co-hider and you know all of the details.

 

If an additional number is that important to you, and you can defend your honor in logging it... have at it. Don't be surprised, however, if people find your caching ethics to be lacking...

 

People are nosy like that.

[Clan Riffster]

Yup. As the old Kristopherson song goes; "Everybodys gotta have somebody to look down on..."

[+Ambrosia]

I think that it's quite ironic that people have told me all my life that I'm honest to a fault, and a pain in the behind to play games with because I am so *ahem* strict with the rules, but I guess here in the geocaching world people are going to be "questioning my ethics". That's actually pretty funny.

 

Whatever.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I think that it's quite ironic that people have told me all my life that I'm honest to a fault, and a pain in the behind to play games with because I am so *ahem* strict with the rules, but I guess here in the geocaching world people are going to be "questioning my ethics". That's actually pretty funny.

 

Whatever.

 

I think, based on a large proportion of the topics here, saying that people DO question other cachers ethics is not a stretch of the imagination.

 

Do you?

 

Personally, it is a very rare thing for me to look at another cachers profile, and even more rare (read: I've never done this) to look at what/where/when/why/how anyone else logs their finds and sift through them with a fine-tooth comb. In fact, when people bring up their disgruntled-ness over how someone else logs their finds, I'm at a bit of a loss as to why it's THAT important to them. Hell, I even 'let' people log finds on my caches even if they straight-up say in their 'found it' log that they didn't find it.

 

Whatever.

 

Their game is their own.

 

 

michelle

[+Ambrosia]

Ya know I ya, Michelle.

[vtmtnman]

I helped a new cacher place a cache.I don't own the cache,only he does.There's already been an FTF.Can I find it or no?

 

(No this is not hypothetical-There really is a cache I helped with here.PM me for the GC# if you like but I'm not posting it)

 

I'm sure this will surprise you, but I wouldn't log it.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, you are the only one who can defend your (caching) honor, but my personal take on the game is that I go find a box I haven't found before and I sign the logbook after finding it.

 

There's not a lot of grey area in 'my' game.

 

Regardless of the number of hides in your area, this isn't a 'new' hide that you haven't found before. It's a box someone else hid with you as a co-hider and you know all of the details.

 

If an additional number is that important to you, and you can defend your honor in logging it... have at it. Don't be surprised, however, if people find your caching ethics to be lacking...

 

People are nosy like that.

I don't know if this post is an O-ficial Curmudgeonly certified post as it was NOT stamped with the O-ficial 'michelle' at the end of it.

 

I don't think I believe in nothin' no more.... :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've since decided not to 'find' it.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I helped a new cacher place a cache.I don't own the cache,only he does.There's already been an FTF.Can I find it or no?

 

(No this is not hypothetical-There really is a cache I helped with here.PM me for the GC# if you like but I'm not posting it)

 

I'm sure this will surprise you, but I wouldn't log it.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, you are the only one who can defend your (caching) honor, but my personal take on the game is that I go find a box I haven't found before and I sign the logbook after finding it.

 

There's not a lot of grey area in 'my' game.

 

Regardless of the number of hides in your area, this isn't a 'new' hide that you haven't found before. It's a box someone else hid with you as a co-hider and you know all of the details.

 

If an additional number is that important to you, and you can defend your honor in logging it... have at it. Don't be surprised, however, if people find your caching ethics to be lacking...

 

People are nosy like that.

I don't know if this post is an O-ficial Curmudgeonly certified post as it was NOT stamped with the O-ficial 'michelle' at the end of it.

 

I don't think I believe in nothin' no more....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've since decided not to 'find' it.

 

Well, hell... I've been derelict in my duties as a cranky mutha.

 

Or, maybe... someone else took over my computer?!

 

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

 

 

 

M.I.C.H.E.L.L.E.

 

[vtmtnman]

I helped a new cacher place a cache.I don't own the cache,only he does.There's already been an FTF.Can I find it or no?

 

(No this is not hypothetical-There really is a cache I helped with here.PM me for the GC# if you like but I'm not posting it)

 

I'm sure this will surprise you, but I wouldn't log it.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, you are the only one who can defend your (caching) honor, but my personal take on the game is that I go find a box I haven't found before and I sign the logbook after finding it.

 

There's not a lot of grey area in 'my' game.

 

Regardless of the number of hides in your area, this isn't a 'new' hide that you haven't found before. It's a box someone else hid with you as a co-hider and you know all of the details.

 

If an additional number is that important to you, and you can defend your honor in logging it... have at it. Don't be surprised, however, if people find your caching ethics to be lacking...

 

People are nosy like that.

I don't know if this post is an O-ficial Curmudgeonly certified post as it was NOT stamped with the O-ficial 'michelle' at the end of it.

 

I don't think I believe in nothin' no more.... B)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've since decided not to 'find' it.

 

Well, hell... I've been derelict in my duties as a cranky mutha.

 

Or, maybe... someone else took over my computer?!

 

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

 

 

 

M.I.C.H.E.L.L.E.

 

[+DudleyGrunt]

I know that vtmtnman has made his decision, but I had a similar thought recently. I hid my first cache and listed my son as a co-hider. He actually accompanied me on the placement, but I'd considered having him log a find if he wanted since, as has been discussed, hed have no official credit for it.

 

What I did was ask him if he'd rather team up with me on the hid or be able to log it with as a find. He opted for the former. It would be nice, though to have some way to log it as a co-hider.

 

Happy trails,

 

Dave

 

<ot>

CurmudgeonlyGal - I've got a friend who my other friends and I have long refered to as a curmudgeon (with love, of course). He whole heartedly agrees and has adopted it as a badge of honor. Even before I came across any of your posts, I'd thought that "The Curmudgeon" would have been a great name for him in the unlikely event he were to take up geocaching.

</ot>

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

 

... liberal deletia ...

 

<ot>

CurmudgeonlyGal - I've got a friend who my other friends and I have long refered to as a curmudgeon (with love, of course). He whole heartedly agrees and has adopted it as a badge of honor. Even before I came across any of your posts, I'd thought that "The Curmudgeon" would have been a great name for him in the unlikely event he were to take up geocaching.

</ot>

 

DG -

 

There was someone a couple of years back who's nick was CurmudgeonlyGuy. It was a sock (most people believed) and he didn't last too long. His axe to grind was cut miraculously short and it looks like the nickname is, once again, available if anyone feels the need to be one...

 

"The Curmudgeon" is also free... but Curmudgeon and Curmudgeon1 and Curmudgeon49 (how does anyone choose that?) are, sadly, taken.

 

michelle

[+Jhwk]

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.

 

There is no spoon.

 

Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

[+DudleyGrunt]

"The Curmudgeon" is also free... but Curmudgeon and Curmudgeon1 and Curmudgeon49 (how does anyone choose that?) are, sadly, taken.

 

michelle

 

Coincidently, my uncle is Rookie49, but I don't think there are 48+ other Rookies. I think it's the year he was born. I wouldn't (obviously, since I didn't) feel a need to suffix my name like that, but hey, whatever.

 

In addition to being a curmudgeon, he's also somewhat of a hermit. I would be shocked if he were get into the hobby. I have another friend, though, in DE that I'm trying to get to try it out with his kids. He's got a coworker that caches, so maybe there is hope.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread....

[+northvan]

Sounds like a shortage of hunts in the area. Might be more appealling to create a few caches and search out new hide spots ?

[vtmtnman]

Sounds like a shortage of hunts in the area. Might be more appealling to create a few caches and search out new hide spots ?

There's only so many places here.I'd love to put some out,but I'm kind of off our main base and I wouldn't know the good areas very well.

[+imchasingshadows]

Go find it. Sign the logbook. Log it online as a find. Never ask such a complicated question again!

 

I really liked that response.

 

Even though you have made up your mind, my goodness, we are talking about finding a geocache that doesn't belong to you! Has no one ever gotten hints from other cachers to help them find a cache? What about cachers who have met the owners, of a cache, while they are hunting for it?

 

This is still a game, right? With a few, very simple rules. "What would Signal do?"

I think Signal would go find it with you, give you an antenna ball, and wish you "Happy Hunting!"

 

I'm done. Thanks.

[+RenoGem & RenoStar]

The question I've heard over and over in this thread is, "How can you find something when you already know where it is?", as the answer to why this shouldn't be logged.

 

How about these situations:

 

1. You're caching with some people, and they find the cache before you do. You didn't find it, so how can you log it? But now, you know where it was hidden, so you can never find it again.

 

2. You see a new cache pop up in your town. Because of the map and/or the description, you know exactly where the cache is. So you can't log it, cause you already know where it is.

 

I'm sure there are more examples then this, I just thought of a couple off the top of my head. I think that people get a bit silly over these things.

 

In our state there are very few State Historical Markers without at least a micro cache attached. On our way back from an anniversary dinner and WITHOUT a GPS we decide to stop and read a SHM that we had not encountered before, just for the history lesson. After reading the marker we both look at each other with that Geo-twinkle in our eyes and start looking for the micro. Alas, nothing, so we climb back in the truck. Looking back towards the marker we notice the corner of an ammo box peeking out of a sagebrush. NOT a micro, but a REGULAR cache. We signed the log and threw in some blade fuses from my glove box.

 

Our first IMMACULATE cache! So I have to agree with the quoted post. Just because you know its there doesn't mean you can't find it.

[vtmtnman]

threw in some blade fuses from my glove box.

 

now thats a good swag idea!Usefull and not THAT expensive.

[+KBI]

The question I've heard over and over in this thread is, "How can you find something when you already know where it is?", as the answer to why this shouldn't be logged.

 

How about these situations:

 

1. You're caching with some people, and they find the cache before you do. You didn't find it, so how can you log it? But now, you know where it was hidden, so you can never find it again.

 

2. You see a new cache pop up in your town. Because of the map and/or the description, you know exactly where the cache is. So you can't log it, cause you already know where it is.

 

I'm sure there are more examples then this, I just thought of a couple off the top of my head. I think that people get a bit silly over these things.

Almost exactly what I was going to write. Aother point, what about those "replacement" caches in honor of some oldie, place in the same location? If you found the original, you can't find the new one just because you know where it is?

 

It's very silly to agonize over this - log it if you want.

I agree.

 

There are no rules here, and it just doesn't matter.

 

I'm not sure which way I would go if it were me, but if you really want to log it, log it. If I chose to log such a cache it would only be a matter of whether I wanted that find to show up in my online records -- I wouldn't worry whether anyone else approved of my action. It can't be a crime if there's no victim.

 

A smiley doesn't signify a difficult find; it merely indicates *a* find. Ambrosia's point #1 says it all. It's a perfect analogy.

 

Consider it a 'zero-star difficulty.'

[+BlueDeuce]

I'm sure this will surprise you, but I wouldn't log it.

 

My opinion has always been that logging such caches is no different in difficulty than going to a cache site and even before you start looking, you see a container laying out in the open. I have yet to see anybody not log a cache laying out on the open*. Make the effort, sign the logbook, put it back, log the cache.

 

Then I helped my 10 year old daughter place her first cache and I thought "Am I going to log this?....Heck no!".

 

Why in the name of geocaching would I want to? It's not a temporary event cache, it's not a destroyed cache.

 

Do I need a cache count that badly that I'll play the system?

 

No I don't. I have yet to have to explain to someone else why I should get to log a cache. And if I did I simply wouldn't log it.

 

 

*I'm sure someone wouldn't.

Edited June 9, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+Ambrosia]

I think I have way too many caches to care about playing the system to get a couple more. I have no problems with my decisions, because I understand why I do them and they make perfect sense to me.

[+BlueDeuce]

I think I have way too many caches to care about playing the system to get a couple more. I have no problems with my decisions, because I understand why I do them and they make perfect sense to me.

 

And you know what? That's okay by me. I still consider it simply a lower difficulty cache because you know where it's at.

[GPS-Hermit]

No! NO! NOOOOOOOOOH! you can't log it a FIND - Silly Rabbit! Finds are for FINDERS

 

What you can do is Pat yourself on the back for helping a Newbie get started and not placing a problem cache. That is worth 100 finds. Thank you for doing that! Don't worry about how many you have found. If I meet you, I won't even ask - I want to know how much fun you are having and hear your stories.

 

Forget about the numbers - go have fun. Think about not asking anyone how many they have found. It just really doesn't tell ya what you want to hear. Ask everything else.

[+The Jester]

Hmm...

 

A strict reading of this thread means I can't log a find on the DNF I cleared the other day. The hint made it very clear where the cache was, but it was missing when I first tried. So when I went back, because "You can't FIND something when you KNOW where it is", I can't log a find??? So any cache with a explict hint - if used - can't be a find either.

[+trailsailor]

We have a lot of hiking caches in my area, some 2, 5, 10 miles plus round trip. The challenge of the hike and the destination basically IS the cache. I've seen quite a few logs that a person was with someone else while hiding a cache and did not log as a find. But upon returning in the future after having done the hike again and "finding" the cache they have logged as a find. I think that this is legitimate and within the spirit of the game.

[vtmtnman]

We have a lot of hiking caches in my area, some 2, 5, 10 miles plus round trip. The challenge of the hike and the destination basically IS the cache. I've seen quite a few logs that a person was with someone else while hiding a cache and did not log as a find. But upon returning in the future after having done the hike again and "finding" the cache they have logged as a find. I think that this is legitimate and within the spirit of the game.

Meh...I wouldn't do it...but that's just me.