Skirt Lifters - Luv'em or Hate'em

[+TrailGators]

 

I have no sympathy for people who still have hundreds or thousands of caches to look for after they quickly sort out the ones that they likely won't like. I have even less sympathy for those that refuse to even use the tools provided to get bypass the caches that they are likely to not enjoy.

Bravo. I don't care much for LPCs, but beggars can't be choosers. There are 56 caches within 50 miles of my home, and 12 of them are mine. I would love to have to sort through tons of caches to find the "good" ones.

 

Count your blessing and stop moaning.

Nobody is moaning. I am asking for a ignore cacher feature. Is that moaning? Also, even if I only had a handful of caches around me, I wouldn't be excited about running around parking lots lifting up lamp skirts.

First of all that was addressed to you personally, nor for that matter most of the regular posters, but a comment on the tone of some of the folks that post to the threads like this one. They only whine and moan, and even when a suggestion is given, they still whine and moan.

 

Secondly I can't say I would be excited about about running around parking lots lifting up lamp skirts either, but if and when one is placed around here I still would, for one reason. Up here a lot of folks come to me with questions and concerns about caching, therefore I want first hand knowledge of every cache around here.

 

Thirdly if I were in a much denser cache environment in would probably ignore LCP.

 

As far as the ignore cacher feature, I don't know. I'd probably never use if I had it, so I don't think I should say anything one way or the other.

 

I just hate hearing cachers whine about how bad it is to have to chose from all these caches. Not that you were. Like sbell said, use the tools to sort through them.

I pretty much only do hiking caches now. I'll drive 50-60 miles to meet up with others to do that. The thrill is gone with urbans for me. I don't want sympathy. It's just the way it is. The ignore cacher feature would help me and maybe re-open the door to urbans.

[+tool team]

The LPC's are a great way for me to shed a few unwanted pounds! I don't even have to find them, just reading the description makes me loose my appetite!

[Mr.Yuck]

The LPC's are a great way for me to shed a few unwanted pounds! I don't even have to find them, just reading the description makes me loose my appetite!

 

That was funny. Really funny. But you shouldn't have bumped this thread. Lesse, 37 pages today....

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Too funny - dormant for almost a year, since April 25 2007, it rears its ugly head and lives again!

 

Maybe reviving this old thread that says everything that can be said about the topic will keep folks from saying it all over again!

 

But... FWIW - I am a happy skirt-lifter!

Edited April 16, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+sbell111]

Too funny - dormant for almost a year, since April 25 2007, it rears its ugly head and lives again!

 

Maybe reviving this old thread that says everything that can be said about the topic will keep folks from saying it all over again!

 

But... FWIW - I am a happy skirt-lifter!

When I saw that someone markwelled this thread, I knew it would be back.

 

(BTW, skirts were made to be lifted.)

[+WebChimp]

Can't we be a little more original than that?

 

In our broad area there are some new twists that have made LPCs more interesting.

 

For example, we lifted one skirt to find, not one, but about 25 plastic film cans. Which one had the log? Most were empty, some had "try again" notes, only one led a log.

 

Another had us at the point of deciding the container was gone, when we finally noticed a white cable tie around the post, with coords on it. That led us to a micro near, but not in, a lamp post. We lost a lot of time doing this one, because we assumed it was a typical LPC.

 

It's true that most LPCs aren't worth the effort it takes to park the car and get out. They do have value, though.

 

One caching friend who used to abhor LPCs (even though he would find them) now says "I like all caches. Some I just like more than others."

 

If a cacher wants a real challenge, think up a way to make a LPC interesting. We may as well figure out a way to do this, as LPCs aren't going away, they will be part of the landscape from now on, so we can either grouse about them, or make them a better part of the GC game.

Edited April 16, 2008 by WebChimp

[Clan Riffster]

If a cacher wants a real challenge, think up a way to make a LPC interesting.

They make great educational tools...

[+sbell111]

If you really, really want to revive this thread, you should get one of these:

 

[Clan Riffster]

Sir! Put down the portable electronic defibrillator and step away from your keyboard! We've got a DNR order on file for this patient!

(Oh great. I just bumped it. Can someone please kill this thing?)

Edited April 17, 2008 by Clan Riffster

[+GreatBazunka]

I think they are all equally as fun. Trekking thruogh the woods is awesome. But sneaking around a more urban setting to find a micro in a light post, gaurdrail, or anything of the sort is just as fun.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

I never met a cache I didn't like.

[+Team Birdaholic]

Lamp post skirt was my introduction to geo-caching. I worked at a Walmart in the lawn and garden dept, and while helping people load mulch, I noticed some people go to a lamp post and lift the skirt and take something and open it then put it all back. After the third find, I went to the lamp post to see what was going on. I found a film canister with some paper and a list of names and dates. I asked the next person I say what it was all about and they told me about geochaching. I then looked it up on the net and the rest is history. Only one thing, my pocket queries do not include micros. There are plenty of others to look for which I can enjoy. Every one to their own.

[+KBI]

Lamp post skirt was my introduction to geo-caching. I worked at a Walmart in the lawn and garden dept, and while helping people load mulch, I noticed some people go to a lamp post and lift the skirt and take something and open it then put it all back. After the third find, I went to the lamp post to see what was going on. I found a film canister with some paper and a list of names and dates. I asked the next person I say what it was all about and they told me about geochaching. I then looked it up on the net and the rest is history. Only one thing, my pocket queries do not include micros. There are plenty of others to look for which I can enjoy. Every one to their own.

This post would seem to effectively squash, once and for all, the theory that parking lot micros drive off good geocachers and are somehow inherently harmful to the game.

 

Not only did a Wal-Mart micro introduce this good person to Geocaching; this bright cacher also seems to have immediately and intuitively grasped that there is more to caching than parking lot micros, and exhibits a personal preference that would appear to be perfectly acceptable to the micro-haters and the anti-lameness whiners, while happily tolerating those with differing preferences.

 

Another theory bites the dust.

 

Thanks for your 'testimonial,' Birdaholic!

[+Too Tall John]

This post would seem to effectively squash, once and for all, the theory that parking lot micros drive off good geocachers and are somehow inherently harmful to the game.

 

Not only did a Wal-Mart micro introduce this good person to Geocaching; this bright cacher also seems to have immediately and intuitively grasped that there is more to caching than parking lot micros, and exhibits a personal preference that would appear to be perfectly acceptable to the micro-haters and the anti-lameness whiners, while happily tolerating those with differing preferences.

 

Another theory bites the dust.

 

Thanks for your 'testimonial,' Birdaholic!

I must cry foul!

 

One "testimonial" does not a theory break.

 

I work at a camp in New Hampshire. I placed a cache this year for counselors to bring kids out to. (It is also published on this site.) It was suggested that, in order to give some of the counselors a better idea what caching was all about, I take some of them out on an expedition.

 

We loaded up one of the camp buses, and headed out for a series of three caches. On the way to the trail, we made a stop at a shopping plaza. After about half the group was back on the bus, I explained that there was a cache that we hadn't planned on getting very nearby. We were, in fact, practically parked on top of it! I explained that it wasn't caches like this that appealed to me, but that they existed. They agreed it didn't sound like the most appealing cache, but that they wanted to experience it once the rest of the counselors had returned from the store.

 

Once everyone was back, the group found the cache without further explanation from me. The half of the group that hadn't heard my disclaimer were ready to go home after the parking lot LPC was found. They thought it was pointless and silly. Thankfully, they had to stick with the rest of us, or they would have missed the target caches for the day.

 

So, that's half a dozen people who, after finding a parking lot LPC were completely turned off.

[+Too Tall John]

To clarify:

 

The story above is not presented to support the theory "that parking lot micros drive off good geocachers and are somehow inherently harmful to the game."

 

While the story is true, and seems to support KBI's framing of the view that he is opposing, the point of the post is, in case it was missed the first time:

 

"One "testimonial" does not a theory break."

 

Or make.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Too Tall John

[+Grigorii Rasputin]

Yeah, been there. Done those. Let's move on and do something else, like knitting! As soon as I see the GPS taking me into a Walmart parking lot, I turn off the GPS and start counting cars.

[+BlueDeuce]

 

Not only did a Wal-Mart micro introduce this good person to Geocaching; this bright cacher also seems to have immediately and intuitively grasped that there is more to caching than parking lot micros, and exhibits a personal preference that would appear to be perfectly acceptable to the micro-haters and the anti-lameness whiners, while happily tolerating those with differing preferences.

 

Another theory bites the dust.

 

Thanks for your 'testimonial,' Birdaholic!

 

I don't weigh into this conversation that often...but I'm in the mood.

 

They are plenty of things in this world I dislike: Imperfect drivers, slow service, a broken TV. Now a parking lot micro might not be on those levels but I still dislike them. I don't think they add that much to the game even when someone defies the odds and enjoys caching anyway.

 

If I had the power to change anything I would ask that people be nicer to each other, even when they didn't deserve it.

 

But I still don't care for skirt-lift caches.

[+KBI]

The half of the group that hadn't heard my disclaimer were ready to go home after the parking lot LPC was found. They thought it was pointless and silly.

Obviously then, that 'unbriefed' half also did not have the benefit of having someone explain the hobby to them as Birdaholic did, nor the chance to peruse Geocaching.com online, as Birdaholic presumably also did.

 

I do not believe your experiment was valid. Based on the way you presented it to them, the unbriefed half of your group had good reason to think the entire hobby was pointless and silly. This is not the way Birdaholic was introduced to the hobby, it is not the way I learned about it, and I doubt many people ever receive the kind of introduction you describe.

 

Your experiment was therefore conducted under artificial conditions which I believe rarely, if ever, exist in the real world.

 

I would suggest to you that the OTHER half of your group, the half which enjoyed the benefit of your explanation, experienced a far more typical introduction to Geocaching than the folks you kept in the dark. How many among the ‘informed’ group of your experiment recoiled in the same way as the information-starved half? THAT would be the relevant question.

 

I’m sorry, but one badly designed experiment does not a theory support, nor a disproof negate.

 

I will concede that one single data point is a thin proof, but in the ongoing “lame caches are bad for the hobby” debate, with nobody having ever provided ANY real evidence to support their “bad for the hobby” claim (despite repeated invitations to do so), Birdaholic’s post is the only hard data I have seen one way or the other.

 

I therefore thought it stood as significant evidence, and was therefore worth noting.

Edited November 4, 2008 by KBI

[+TrailGators]

 

Not only did a Wal-Mart micro introduce this good person to Geocaching; this bright cacher also seems to have immediately and intuitively grasped that there is more to caching than parking lot micros, and exhibits a personal preference that would appear to be perfectly acceptable to the micro-haters and the anti-lameness whiners, while happily tolerating those with differing preferences.

 

Another theory bites the dust.

 

Thanks for your 'testimonial,' Birdaholic!

 

I don't weigh into this conversation that often...but I'm in the mood.

 

They are plenty of things in this world I dislike: Imperfect drivers, slow service, a broken TV. Now a parking lot micro might not be on those levels but I still dislike them. I don't think they add that much to the game even when someone defies the odds and enjoys caching anyway.

 

If I had the power to change anything I would ask that people be nicer to each other, even when they didn't deserve it.

 

But I still don't care for skirt-lift caches.

I'm with you BD!

[+Too Tall John]

The half of the group that hadn't heard my disclaimer were ready to go home after the parking lot LPC was found. They thought it was pointless and silly.

Obviously then, that 'unbriefed' half also did not have the benefit of having someone explain the hobby to them as Birdaholic did, nor the chance to peruse Geocaching.com online, as Birdaholic presumably also did.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't exactly clear on this point, but they all knew they were going geocaching, and what geocaching was before they got on the bus in the first place, so while your supposition that the "'unbriefed' half also did not have the benefit of having someone explain the hobby to them as Birdaholic did" may be my fault, it is wrong.

 

They all received the explanation about how geocaching can bring you to cool locations for interesting experiences. In fact, I took them to the caches where I had a bear encounter, a story they all enjoyed.

 

Oh, and it wasn't really an experiment, it's just the way it happened. We popped into the plaza to pick up some stuff (I got some swag and an extra hiking pole for $5!) and it occurred to me that there was this cache in the lot. I was chatting with those that were back on the bus already, they agreed they wanted to find the cache. In the interest of getting on the road for the "Main Event," once everyone was back, I just passed out GPS's, had 'em punch in coords and set them loose.

[+Too Tall John]

I would suggest to you that the OTHER half of your group, the half which enjoyed the benefit of your explanation, experienced a far more typical introduction to Geocaching than the folks you kept in the dark. How many among the ‘informed’ group of your experiment recoiled in the same way as the information-starved half? THAT would be the relevant question.

The half that heard my disclaimer that "this type of cache isn't what attracted me to caching" did not react in the same way the other half did. They knew this cache wasn't why I was excited about caching.

 

The rest knew I was excited about caching, and that they had just found a geocache. They were NOT impressed, and didn't care to find another.

 

Both groups did all agree they didn't care about looking for LPCs.

 

Regardless, my main point remains.

 

On a side note, let's not forget those who think that bringing more people into this game is hurting the game. Maybe they should become proponents of LPCs...

[+Too Tall John]

I will concede that one single data point is a thin proof, but in the ongoing “lame caches are bad for the hobby” debate, with nobody having ever provided ANY real evidence to support their “bad for the hobby” claim (despite repeated invitations to do so), Birdaholic’s post is the only hard data I have seen one way or the other.

Well, now you've got stories from both sides. Since this thread sort of died off in April and my experience happened in June and was followed by a very busy summer, it wasn't until the thread resurfaced that I thought to bring it up.

 

Speaking of which, who do we have to thank for dredging this one back up again?

[+tozainamboku]

The half of the group that hadn't heard my disclaimer were ready to go home after the parking lot LPC was found. They thought it was pointless and silly.

Obviously then, that 'unbriefed' half also did not have the benefit of having someone explain the hobby to them as Birdaholic did, nor the chance to peruse Geocaching.com online, as Birdaholic presumably also did.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't exactly clear on this point, but they all knew they were going geocaching, and what geocaching was before they got on the bus in the first place, so while your supposition that the "'unbriefed' half also did not have the benefit of having someone explain the hobby to them as Birdaholic did" may be my fault, it is wrong.

 

They all received the explanation about how geocaching can bring you to cool locations for interesting experiences. In fact, I took them to the caches where I had a bear encounter, a story they all enjoyed.

 

Oh, and it wasn't really an experiment, it's just the way it happened. We popped into the plaza to pick up some stuff (I got some swag and an extra hiking pole for $5!) and it occurred to me that there was this cache in the lot. I was chatting with those that were back on the bus already, they agreed they wanted to find the cache. In the interest of getting on the road for the "Main Event," once everyone was back, I just passed out GPS's, had 'em punch in coords and set them loose.

My guess is that being camp counselors, you had explained to the group that caching would be great camp activity that involved hiking in the woods or perhaps visiting a historic site. You gave them no idea that some people enjoy the hobby because it involves finding hidden caches not all of which might be in the most exciting of places. For many people being in on "the secret" in the parking lot is what gets them interested. Since you made sure they had a biased view of geocaching, no wonder those that hadn't been briefed were disappointed in finding this cache. Those that were briefed probably understood that different people enjoy geocaching for different reasons. They probably guessed that it was fairly easy to select caches involving hikes or that were in interesting locations and skip the ones in parking lots or that just didn't look that interesting. Birdaholic saw people looking for a cache in a lamppost and got curious about what was hidden there. He asked a geocacher who explained it to him. When he looked on the site he found caches that appealed more to him for other reasons. Now he simply eliminates micros from his PQ because there are more than enough other caches to keep him busy. He doesn't begrudge those who like micros or who prefer LPCs.

[+KBI]

Both groups did all agree they didn't care about looking for LPCs.

Not that I don’t believe you, but most intelligent folks, upon learning the gist of this hobby, intuitively understand the concepts of open membership, amateur effort, varying degrees of inspiration, and varying preference, and further understand that one example of a geocache, no matter which single example is first presented, does not likely represent the wide variety of experience available.*

 

It might be more convincing to hear from the members of your group directly, as we did from Birdaholic

 

Regardless, my main point remains.

As does the opposing – and overwhelming – testimony which is logged on a daily basis, by the tens of thousands, on lamp post cache paper logs and online logs everywhere. Somebody is enjoying all those skirt-lifters out there – and those somebodys apparently have LOTS of like-minded friends.

 

Care to tell me that those overwhelming numbers of happy ‘Found It’ logs do not a theory disprove?

 

On a side note, let's not forget those who think that bringing more people into this game is hurting the game. Maybe they should become proponents of LPCs...

Bringing more people into this game is hurting the game?

 

I’m not familiar with that one. You mean there are people who wish, now that they are here, to pull up the ladder and bolt the tree house door?

 

Nice.

 

 

* WOW that’s a lot of commas. Sorry.

[+KBI]

Speaking of which, who do we have to thank for dredging this one back up again?

If it wasn't this "I hate lame micros" thread it would have been a different one, or yet another new one.

 

Do you honestly think the whiny complaining will ever end?

[+TrailGators]

Do you honestly think the whiny complaining will ever end?

Aren't you complaining KBI?

[+Too Tall John]

On a side note, let's not forget those who think that bringing more people into this game is hurting the game. Maybe they should become proponents of LPCs...

Bringing more people into this game is hurting the game?

 

I’m not familiar with that one. You mean there are people who wish, now that they are here, to pull up the ladder and bolt the tree house door?

 

Nice.

Not that I'm one of them (I have gotten a number of people involved with caching) but yes, such a sentiment exists. Do a forum search for things such as "Is Geocaching growing too fast?" You'll find what I mean. My comment was supposed to be somewhat ironic.

* WOW that’s a lot of commas. Sorry.

Tsk, tsk! Run-on sentences!

[+BlueDeuce]

 

Not only did a Wal-Mart micro introduce this good person to Geocaching; this bright cacher also seems to have immediately and intuitively grasped that there is more to caching than parking lot micros, and exhibits a personal preference that would appear to be perfectly acceptable to the micro-haters and the anti-lameness whiners, while happily tolerating those with differing preferences.

 

Another theory bites the dust.

 

Thanks for your 'testimonial,' Birdaholic!

 

I don't weigh into this conversation that often...but I'm in the mood.

 

They are plenty of things in this world I dislike: Imperfect drivers, slow service, a broken TV. Now a parking lot micro might not be on those levels but I still dislike them. I don't think they add that much to the game even when someone defies the odds and enjoys caching anyway.

 

If I had the power to change anything I would ask that people be nicer to each other, even when they didn't deserve it.

 

But I still don't care for skirt-lift caches.

I'm with you BD!

 

eh, you're just being nice.

[+Too Tall John]

Do you honestly think the whiny complaining will ever end?

Since the definition of what is 'whiny complaining' will always be set by the opposing side to any argument, no.

[+Moose Mob]

I'm going to whine and complain about where this thread has gone.

[Mr.Yuck]

I will concede that one single data point is a thin proof, but in the ongoing “lame caches are bad for the hobby” debate, with nobody having ever provided ANY real evidence to support their “bad for the hobby” claim (despite repeated invitations to do so), Birdaholic’s post is the only hard data I have seen one way or the other.

Well, now you've got stories from both sides. Since this thread sort of died off in April and my experience happened in June and was followed by a very busy summer, it wasn't until the thread resurfaced that I thought to bring it up.

 

Speaking of which, who do we have to thank for dredging this one back up again?

 

Some newb from Pittsburgh. Don't worry though, I, the notorious thread killer, have just posted. Consider it the kiss of death.

[+KBI]

I, the notorious thread killer, have just posted. Consider it the kiss of death.

I'll join your effort. Consider this my last post here.

 

Let's see if we can tie a big rock to this thread and watch it sink right back down where it came from.

[+TrailGators]

I will concede that one single data point is a thin proof, but in the ongoing "lame caches are bad for the hobby" debate, with nobody having ever provided ANY real evidence to support their "bad for the hobby" claim (despite repeated invitations to do so), Birdaholic's post is the only hard data I have seen one way or the other.

Well, now you've got stories from both sides. Since this thread sort of died off in April and my experience happened in June and was followed by a very busy summer, it wasn't until the thread resurfaced that I thought to bring it up.

 

Speaking of which, who do we have to thank for dredging this one back up again?

 

Some newb from Pittsburgh. Don't worry though, I, the notorious thread killer, have just posted. Consider it the kiss of death.

Kiss Of Death doesn't quite work but Kiss Be Imminent does!

 

Anyhow, the OP was just asking what people thought. Every time someone new notices these types of caches one of these threads pops up. So just let people say whether they like them or not and leave it at that. That way we can all get along.

[+Too Tall John]

I, the notorious thread killer, have just posted. Consider it the kiss of death.

I'll join your effort. Consider this my last post here.

 

Let's see if we can tie a big rock to this thread and watch it sink right back down where it came from.

<announcer>

Tune in next time, for the exciting conclusion of this thread, when Moose Mob says:

 

"AWLRIGHT!!! EVERYBODY! OUT OF THE POOL! NOW!!!!"

 

</announcer>

 

[+BrrrMo]

Found first one yesterday. (9th Cache) Was sitting there on the pole wandering where is this thing? Another couple pulled up after sitting there for awhile they got out and said "find it yet"?

 

You can't take anything for credit in this game. "The Invincible Ones"

[+The Jester]

Yesterday I just did a nice walk in the woods (4+ miles with a 50 pound pack) with several caches to hunt. The first one I tried was a micro - after a fruitless search (all the common things - drifting signal, many possible hide sites, no hint) I realized I would have prefered a LPC. I was 'smart' enough to move on when the fun level dropped to near zero. The other four caches I did find were fun - and the hike was great (and the main reason I was out).

[+ThePachecos]

I like those micros if they are puzzle based or if they lead to bigger caches or if they are part of a bigger picture.. like visiting all of the 7 elevens in my city.

[+sbell111]

I like those micros if they are puzzle based or if they lead to bigger caches or if they are part of a bigger picture.. like visiting all of the 7 elevens in my city.

I'd be shocked if the number of Seven Elevens in Fountain, CO was greater than one.

[+BlueDeuce]

I count two.

[+Moose Mob]

I like those micros if they are puzzle based or if they lead to bigger caches or if they are part of a bigger picture.. like visiting all of the 7 elevens in my city.

I'd be shocked if the number of Seven Elevens in Fountain, CO was greater than one.

[+sbell111]

I like those micros if they are puzzle based or if they lead to bigger caches or if they are part of a bigger picture.. like visiting all of the 7 elevens in my city.

I'd be shocked if the number of Seven Elevens in Fountain, CO was greater than one.

I asked them to remove all pics of me from their site.

[+TrailGators]

I like those micros if they are puzzle based or if they lead to bigger caches or if they are part of a bigger picture.. like visiting all of the 7 elevens in my city.

I'd be shocked if the number of Seven Elevens in Fountain, CO was greater than one.