The loss of a truly great contributor!

[+Rockin Roddy]

Well, I suppose most of you have seen that the great Tommy Trojan is leaving our sport! I hope you all know what the cache world is losing!!

 

Tommy, Helen and the TT crew gave generously to this sport...you hid caches that cost more than I could make in a day ($$$ wise), you sent out THOUSANDS of $$$$ worth of TBs for all to find and enjoy and you gave me something to look forward to when going to TB hunt!! All those great TT TBs will forever be missed.

 

Why did this have to happen??? How did it come to this?? A great many of you Californians (and some out of state cachers as well...you guys undoubtedly know who you are) decided to BASH Tommy and Helen for their efforts! Caches would come up missing, TBs would be hoarded and hijacked! Instead of notes of thanks being sent to this great guy, you sent him hatred and vile! DISGUSTING!!

 

How many of those who cut this man down will have given as much as Tommy and crew have??? You complained about a few simple rules placed on his TBs, hey...if you had that many TBs floating around, you'd be trying to minimize the losses too!! You JUMP all over this guy because he DARES to charge more for a coin than you want to spend...oh sure, you claim it's because he "hid the fact that he's making a profit". WHAT...nobody else has tried to profit from their sales????? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Where were those "profits" going??? Right back into the cache community!!

 

One guy over on the coin threads even has the gall to claim it's because you "have an air of superiority" about you...ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? What right do these people have to questions YOU about "KNOWING" some of those in this game??? What gives??? I could go on forever here, but my thread would soon turn vile and vicious (toward those TT bashers), I would hate to lower myself to that!!

 

All I know is this: I started caching almost a year ago...one of my first TBs was a Tommy Trojan TB! I wrote a neat little story for it since it had such a great description. Now, my memory is HORRID (bad bicycle/car accident...I lost), but I do remember that TB and that little adventure story...AND I remember that Tommy, Helen and the crew WROTE ME a great message thanking me for moving their TB and for the story!! Since then, I have found a lot of the TT TBs, and this great cache team ALWAYS wrote me with gratitude for helping them on their way!! Tommy, it is I who should be thanking YOU for sending them out for all to enjoy!! I looked forward to finding another TT TB every time I went out!!

 

I'm here for you Tommy, you have a friend in MI, give me a yell any time!! You will be missed my friend!!

[+Jeep'en Jumpers]

First I've heard of this but must say that Tommy Trojan is the ONLY person out there that has always sent a note after moving one of there TB's. Know I wasn't special, he did that for everyone! Just want to Thank Tommy Trojan back for all he's done in this Caching community. Hope we haven't lost you? Hope your able to ignore the few who spoil what I've enjoyed along with many others I'm sure.

[+rjbloom & co]

The couple of TBs that I've run across by them were pretty cool, I'll admit. But they did send me a strong complaint by email for putting one of their TBs in an infrequently visited multicache. It seemed a little extreme, and now I read this was just one of their 677 TBs? I try to put TBs in safe places but I guess I was bad for not following their rules. They obviously really love TBs!

[+Rockin Roddy]

I hear you!! This cache team really made my caching experience a better one! I too am writing everyone that visits one of my caches or moves one of my coins/TBs (although I only have 1 TB out right now...11 coins though). I enjoyed having almost regular conversations with Tommy and Helen, almost like I knew them personally!! We have made quite the friendship here recently!!

 

I really hope that those that pushed Tommy and crew to this end understand the HUGE loss we have all had with the loss of this ICONIC geocacher...he's a legend around here, and now he's gone!!

 

Will miss you Tommy!!

[+jahoadi and john]

First I've heard of this but must say that Tommy Trojan is the ONLY person out there that has always sent a note after moving one of there TB's. Know I wasn't special, he did that for everyone! Just want to Thank Tommy Trojan back for all he's done in this Caching community. Hope we haven't lost you? Hope your able to ignore the few who spoil what I've enjoyed along with many others I'm sure.

 

 

Hear hear. We have never met TT, but have seen and moved on many of their TBs and so what about a couple of minor rules they have, they are positively contributing to the Fun, I said Fun of caching. Relax who ever is driving negativety into our Fun. Please Cache on or TB on Tommy Trojan.

 

Jodi and John

[+Rockin Roddy]

The couple of TBs that I've run across by them were pretty cool, I'll admit. But they did send me a strong complaint by email for putting one of their TBs in an infrequently visited multicache. It seemed a little extreme, and now I read this was just one of their 677 TBs? I try to put TBs in safe places but I guess I was bad for not following their rules. They obviously really love TBs!

 

His reasoning for having those "rules" was (and now I'm just speculating as I truly don't know) probably to keep them from disappearing. With sooo many TBs out, it's tough to keep up with them all, but Tommy replaced every one that went missing. The costs alone must have been staggering, not to mention all the time involved...and yes...Tommy wrote EVERYONE who moved one of his TBs thanking that cacher for helping the TB along.

 

I know that Tommy may have rubbed many cachers the wrong way, I made a small mistake once too...but I have since modeled my caching around his actions and it's been a nice ride thus far!! I love to send out my thanks to others, it's a great way to make friends from near and far!! He's been a great player.

 

FIGHT ON TOMMY...you will be missed!!

[+Snake & Rooster]

[+Cornerstone4]

 

One guy over on the coin threads even has the gall to claim it's because you "have an air of superiority" about you...ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

 

If you are going to quote me, please include the entire context...

 

I was trying to share a point of view I had. Tommy started his coin thread, and had nothing but problems from the start. Tommy and I have had our differences in the past, but we still manage to carry on a dialog in private emails, including emails after those posts yesterday.

 

I know there are a lot of people that won't post in the forums, that have very negative feelings towards Tommy. I appreciate the time and money they spent to contribute, and I agree that their effort has contributed towards the game.

 

As I sat back and watched what happened, I realized that many people were getting very upset by the tone of the posts. In my post, I was trying to explain that possibly the many capitalized letters, and succint messages may have caused people to feel he was dismissing them. Online communication can be difficult in the best of times. I was trying to offer a viewpoint, not condemn them.

 

I personally wished them well in whatever venture they decide to undertake.

 

Here is a link to the entire post, since I feel your quote was a bit out of context. Post in Coin Forums

[+Renegade Knight]

Isn't this reverse evolution? The right people should stay just to outlast the wrong ones. Not vice versa.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[+Rockin Roddy]

Sorry if I put you in a bad light...I should have better stated that! What I meant was that one guy even stated that Tommy was disliked because he had "an air of superiority" about him...the gall of it all!! Believe me, if I was trying to make you out as the bad guy, I'd have stated your name!!

 

I have sat back and watched as you guys (again generalizing here...I don't mean any one person in particular...but if you are feeling guilty here, you'll probably be one that I am talking about) BASH this man because he wants more for his coin than others (and you feel you MUST have the reason to justify this)...like nobody else charges MORE for their coins?? How do you people know that Tommy DOESN'T know Jeremy or what Jeremy's visions were for this sport??

 

You are right though, it IS hard to get across the true feelings that one is trying to convey, so maybe those reading the posts should take that into consideration before jumping to conclusions. Now, that said, I hope that by reading this, you don't think I come across as mad or anything...I'm simply trying to get across the fact that this IS hard...you see, by CAPITALIZING my words, I am merely trying to EMPHASIZE that word.

 

I apologize if you feel I painted you in a bad light, that truly wasn't my meaning here.

[+Cornerstone4]

 

I apologize if you feel I painted you in a bad light, that truly wasn't my meaning here.

 

Fair enough.

[+SD Rowdies]

Nice weather we've been having isn't it?

[+Cornerstone4]

Nice weather we've been having isn't it?

 

Fair enough.

[+PassingWind]

This thread...

 

[+zoltig]

Say it isn't so!

It took me a while but I found a TB that belongs to TT.

White Cloud Chaser

After I picked up the TB, I received a very pleasant note from the owners about placing the TB back in a cache. After I placed it another pleasant note from them. I thought that was great to see such attention placed on a TB. Keep caching TT !!

[+rjbloom & co]

It occurs to me that with 677 TBs, Tommy Trojan must have some good statistics on TBs. How long do they last, on average, etc?

[+Rockin Roddy]

Tommy has let me in on a few of his "secrets" about his TBs...I will share a few tidbits for you to better understand the ENORMOUS efforts Tommy and Helen put forth into this great sport...and the HUGE loss because of those that just couldn't let well enough alone!

 

Tommy has a "TB factory" in his basement...the 20'X40' room is filled with all the stuff needed to put out the TBs, replace the lost TBs, answer all the emails they receive DAILY from all those TBs being moved etc.

 

Tommy and Helen spend more than $500 monthly JUST for the replacemnet of said TBs...thats's above and beyond the costs for the tags, the new TBs he's putting out on a regular basis, the costs of the materials and ink (we all know how much that cam be when printing up all those tags and info sheets etc), and any other costs which they incurred just to contribute to this great sport!

 

Tommy and Helen spent 12 to 14 hours answering all those emails (not sure if that was weekly or daily, I can't recall)...yes, he answers EVERY email notice of movement etc!

 

All that, plus Tommy was loosing 1000 coins into the wild for others to enjoy! His mistake was to offer his coins up for sale! He didn't intend to when he had them made, his intent was to release them for everyone to find and enjoy. Sooo many cachers asked to buy his coins, he decided to sell them...with rules that they NOT end up on the "e" place or be sold or traded...you want one, come to the source! His price and rules were merely to deter those that wanted nothing more than to profit fromTT's creation.

 

I hope TT doesn't get upset with my sharing these little bits of info with everyone...he truly is a great person!! Yes, he had some problems, yes he sent out some tough messages for those that couldn't follow his rules about NOT placing his TBs into multi or event caches (the TBs have a higher rate of disappearance from those caches)...with all that money and time wrapped up into those TBs, you'd likely try any way possible to keep the losses at a minimum too!!

 

The loss of a truly GREAT contributor!!!

 

edit to add that my spelling is a bit off today...sorry!!

Edited December 10, 2006 by Rockin Roddy

[+ArtieD]

 

I have to ask...why are you on this personal crusade to elevate the name of TT?

 

It is really this simple:

 

TT did some good things in geocaching...he released many bugs and caches. However, TT did some things in geocaching that gave him a bad name...like selling coins for massive profit and not being straight about it and being nasty to people who didn't follow his TB "rules", etc.

 

In human memory, often bad things overshadow good.

 

Point is...people are either going to:

 

1. Like TT and his actions, or

2. Dislike TT and his actions.

 

You constantly coming on here playing TT's cheerleader isn't going to change that fact.

 

Let it go. He's gone. He chose to pick up his toys from the sandbox and leave. No one forced him to do anything.

Edited December 10, 2006 by Arthur & Trillian

[+Jeep'en Jumpers]

 

I have to ask...why are you on this personal crusade to elevate the name of TT?

 

It is really this simple:

 

TT did some good things in geocaching...he released many bugs and caches. However, TT did some things in geocaching that gave him a bad name...like selling coins for massive profit and not being straight about it and being nasty to people who didn't follow his TB "rules", etc.

 

In human memory, often bad things overshadow good.

 

Point is...people are either going to:

 

1. Like TT and his actions, or

2. Dislike TT and his actions.

 

You constantly coming on here playing TT's cheerleader isn't going to change that fact.

 

Let it go. He's gone. He chose to pick up his toys from the sandbox and leave. No one forced him to do anything.

 

To bad someone like you who has 22 travel bug finds hasn't experienced one of Tommy Trojans TB's. In fact, too bad someone like you who can criticize others hasn't released a single Travel Bug or Coin! Others have made a nice profit on coins....if you want to call me out...just ask on a private message but I'm not going to bash anyone for doing that. Your new school and Tommy Trojan was old school....he had the right to do anything he wanted and if you didn't like it don't buy it or move it. There is more to the story but I'll leave it at that.

 

Fight On Tommy Trojan!!

[+Rockin Roddy]

And with all honesty A&T, this topic IS about TT, if you don't want to read about him, there are other threads out there!

[+ArtieD]

To bad someone like you who has 22 travel bug finds hasn't experienced one of Tommy Trojans TB's. In fact, too bad someone like you who can criticize others hasn't released a single Travel Bug or Coin! Others have made a nice profit on coins....if you want to call me out...just ask on a private message but I'm not going to bash anyone for doing that. Your new school and Tommy Trojan was old school....he had the right to do anything he wanted and if you didn't like it don't buy it or move it. There is more to the story but I'll leave it at that.

 

Fight On Tommy Trojan!!

 

Knowing what I know about some more personal issues regarding TT, I will offer my sympathy to them on that.

 

However, it doesn't erase the fact that he did things that many feel was not appropriate. Yes, he had the right to do what he wanted, but in doing so he alienated many people.

 

He is not this messiah you make him out to be.

[+Jeep'en Jumpers]

 

He is not this messiah you make him out to be.

 

I would never call him the messiah but I would call him a great Teacher! You say many and I'll say a few or even less, he did well and lets just leave it there. My last post...go buy some bugs!

[+ArtieD]

 

He is not this messiah you make him out to be.

 

I would never call him the messiah but I would call him a great Teacher! You say many and I'll say a few or even less, he did well and lets just leave it there.

 

Actually, I will retract that statement...by definition, "messiah" means "leader" and despite my personal feelings I have to admit he was a leader in a way.

 

My last post...go buy some bugs!

 

I will!

[+Rockin Roddy]

I agree...he WAS a leader!!

 

You say nobody ran this great LEADER out of GC...well...you may not have held a gun to his head, but just as surely as if you had, your comments and bullying (and when I say "your" I mean that to everyone that participated in the bashings...not generalizing here) drove him from this sport. I think Tommy had stomached about all he could of the vile rantings, and then he and his wife decided that if no one appreciated what they were doing, WHY BOTHER????

 

What bothers me (and I was guilty of this myself here in my earlier post) is how everyone can just jump in and say whatever hurtful, mean things they want as if their words have no consequences. Another link says very much this same thing! If everyone had just said "hey, you are charging too much, I'm out" and left it at that, Tommy was more than happy to acknowledge those comments politely and move on. About half way through though, it got personal and mean...the same people just sat there and bashed instead of adding anything constructive. Is it so hard to say no and move on???

 

And yes, my comment was a bit strong up earlier...this is how problems get made! You see, I just had been told the day (or so) before that "if I don't like the view, move to another bench", I disagreed then, but turned around and said much the same thing to A&T. This was wrong, no matter how much I percieved A&T to be judgemental and rude....nice brings about nice. I am sorry A&T, being mad isn't an excuse to be mean, and I shouldn't have acted badly.

 

In public forums, people shouldn't be condemned for such trivial things as charging too much for a coin...truly, it's a buyers market, you don't want it, don't buy it. And people shouldn't be harrassed for not knowing the procedures to posting (as it turns out another cacher said that Tommy came in like a distant relative at Christmas...) Posting is for everyone, everyone posts new coin releases, and there should be no "procedure" to asking for permission (as it looks the poster to another thread thinks there should be) before presenting a coin. If we get it wrong, how about some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism instead of continual harrassment...nice brings about nice!! AND...if you really don't think there was bashing going on, just read a few of the posts and see where the comments turn hurtful. They may not be too bad for some to accept, they may only make some of us mad...they turned TT from our sport and that's something that we ALL lost...THE LOSS OF A GREAT CONTRIBUTOR!!! My feeling here is that there were a group that had already made up their minds to harrass TT no matter what just because of the problems they had with him from another encounter (possibly a harsh worded response to someone not following one of TT's rules). If you don't like someone, why push it?? Why harrass someone just because he's there and vulnerable (reminds me of school and the local BULLY).

 

I WILL get off my soapbox, I grow tired of trying to get everyone to see how this all came about. I too see your points, I just hope that you can come to the realization that by being abusive in your comments, you effectively drove a knife into Tommy's heart and killed a great contributor!!

 

edit to add...also my last post...I have more constructive things to do!! Today, I'm hiding my 41st cache and then on to a TB trade!!

Edited December 11, 2006 by Rockin Roddy

[+ArtieD]

And yes, my comment was a bit strong up earlier...this is how problems get made! You see, I just had been told the day (or so) before that "if I don't like the view, move to another bench", I disagreed then, but turned around and said much the same thing to A&T. This was wrong, no matter how much I percieved A&T to be judgemental and rude....nice brings about nice. I am sorry A&T, being mad isn't an excuse to be mean, and I shouldn't have acted badly.

 

No problem...I should be apologizing, too. Sometimes it is too easy to let loose on people when you don't have to look them in the face...it becomes less personal in a way. So, I apologize.

[Jeepstr]

Ummm... I am fairly new to this sport who is this dude???

[+Rockin Roddy]

Well Jeepstr....read the original post and a few of my posts after that, and you'll get a good idea of who Tommy Trojan and Helen of Troy were!! Or, you can write me and I'll send you some info about this guy...he truly WAS a great contributor!!

 

And YES...I DO have Jeep!! Although it's a new Liberty, I have taken it out to Vegas and "tested" it's ability...NICE!!! When the 5 yr warranty is over, I plan to lift, modify and add until it is nearly unstoppable!! As of yet, I haven't been able to find anything that got me stuck...even the 4' snow drifts we got last winter weren't a match!! I PRAY for a nice snowstorm this year, but it's currently 40* out and supposed to be sunny today!!

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!!

[+ReadyOrNot]

To bad someone like you who has 22 travel bug finds hasn't experienced one of Tommy Trojans TB's. In fact, too bad someone like you who can criticize others hasn't released a single Travel Bug or Coin! Others have made a nice profit on coins....if you want to call me out...just ask on a private message but I'm not going to bash anyone for doing that. Your new school and Tommy Trojan was old school....he had the right to do anything he wanted and if you didn't like it don't buy it or move it. There is more to the story but I'll leave it at that.

 

Fight On Tommy Trojan!!

 

I'm fairly new to geocaching... If I come across a TB, I'll grab it and move it along if I can. I don't usually come across coins, but if I do, I'll grab it, admire it for a few minutes and then move it along..

 

I don't know anything about Tommy Trojan or anything coin related to be honest.. I'm not sure that TB's and Coin's are the main purpose of geocaching, more of a side hobby (at least that's my impression after reading through a lot of these posts)... I always thought geocaching was about finding a hidden stash of goodies in the woods with your GPS???

 

My advice to Tommy Trojan would be to run away as fast as you can from the forums, grab your GPS and go find some caches! That's what got you to fall in love with this game in the first place right? Maybe it's time to take a little bit back for yourself... Nothing wrong with that if it keeps you in the game...

 

Just my 2 cents

[+a_friend_of_dorothy]

I too have found many of TT's TB's and experienced the personal e-mail for each one. I have seen one too many cachers swearing off the game due to petty quibbling in the forums. The fact is that this game has such a diverse community that conflicts are bound to arise. I have chosen to only get involved with and listen to the opinions of those cachers I enjoy having around (I mean this is a hobby, not a job). I think some people just have too much time on their hands and no one to talk to so they bring their anger and frustration to the forums and take it out on other cachers. In my opinion TT's rules on his TB's are more than justified; I mean TB's are private property placed in the public trust. Having lost a few nice coins and bugs in the wild I can sympathize with trying to keep them "alive" by placing restrictions on them (again they are private property and you can do what you want with your own property last time I checked). Also call me crazy but if you feel that someone is charging too much for a product why would you buy it? And if you didn't buy it what would be accomplished by complaining about it on the forums? Either way I think the best solution is to simply ignore the naysayers (and the forums) and continue to enjoy the game (It is a game people, there is no reason to take it so seriously). I sure hope TT decides against retiring and that people chill out with all the negative comments.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I'm afraid it's just too late....in fact, Tommy has already removed his caches from the wild (he's sending me one of the great containers to use as a tribute cache here in Michigan). Tommy surely had more reason than just the forums (there are a few reasons, not discussing those here), but Tommy and Helen HAS called it quits!!

 

TT's TBs will probably circulate until they are all muggled or lost, TT won't be replacing those any more (if you read most other posts, you'd know that he spends BIG bucks replacing all lost and stolen TBs), no more new TBs either!!

 

Truly...it's Groundspeak that has lost...Tommy was buying those TB tags in droves, he was putting money into GC on a regular basis.

[+Nero]

I think The Eagles said it best. "Get Over It"

[+Rockin Roddy]

Nah...I think it's good to have others realize why such a giving cacher would quit like that!

 

Thanks for bumping it though!!

 

edit to add: I am over it, btw...but I do appreciate the bump! I will be placing a tribute cache to Tommy soon, an official "Tommy Trojan" container will be coming my way soon!

Edited January 1, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+RREngineer]

I would be remiss if I didn't put my thoughts on the forum. Though I haven't met either Tommy or Helen, I have exchanged emails with them. And yes, one of the earliest was about placing a TB in an event. But a lot of TB's and Geocoins have specific goals and rules, not just theirs. I don't see what is the problem with that. They are his to do with as he chooses and it is up to the rest of us to abide by his wishes. That particular TB, I mentioned, is clipped to my camera bag or key chain, all the time, and has traveled a great many miles with me, with Tommy's okay. I also put out a TT cache in my area that some of his TB's pass through as they start their journey.

 

I try to play the game the way it is intended but there are many out there that feel that the caches, TB's and Geocoins are there for them to do as they want. I get upset when my caches get raided, as I'm sure TT did also with the loss o fhis TB's and Geocoins. For the ones that get cleaned out a number of times, I make them micros. Tommy and Helen decided it isn't worth the aggravation and they quit.

 

It's a shame for so few to cause problems for so many. I just hope that you are satified with the results.

 

Sorry to lose you Tommy and Helen.

[+mtngirls]

I too have found many of TT's TB's and experienced the personal e-mail for each one. I have seen one too many cachers swearing off the game due to petty quibbling in the forums. The fact is that this game has such a diverse community that conflicts are bound to arise. I have chosen to only get involved with and listen to the opinions of those cachers I enjoy having around (I mean this is a hobby, not a job). I think some people just have too much time on their hands and no one to talk to so they bring their anger and frustration to the forums and take it out on other cachers. In my opinion TT's rules on his TB's are more than justified; I mean TB's are private property placed in the public trust. Having lost a few nice coins and bugs in the wild I can sympathize with trying to keep them "alive" by placing restrictions on them (again they are private property and you can do what you want with your own property last time I checked). Also call me crazy but if you feel that someone is charging too much for a product why would you buy it? And if you didn't buy it what would be accomplished by complaining about it on the forums? Either way I think the best solution is to simply ignore the naysayers (and the forums) and continue to enjoy the game (It is a game people, there is no reason to take it so seriously). I sure hope TT decides against retiring and that people chill out with all the negative comments.

 

Couldn't have said it any better! We do not pay any attention to the forums as they are like childrens playgrounds. Sooner or later the kids start fighting and throwing sand in each others eye. So tonight when I found out Tommy & Helen were quiting my heart sank. I wish they would come back. They are truly loved by us!

[+HaZzMaTt...]

Woohoo what a ride!

[+CentralCArn]

I too have found many of TT's TB's and experienced the personal e-mail for each one. I have seen one too many cachers swearing off the game due to petty quibbling in the forums. The fact is that this game has such a diverse community that conflicts are bound to arise. I have chosen to only get involved with and listen to the opinions of those cachers I enjoy having around (I mean this is a hobby, not a job). I think some people just have too much time on their hands and no one to talk to so they bring their anger and frustration to the forums and take it out on other cachers. In my opinion TT's rules on his TB's are more than justified; I mean TB's are private property placed in the public trust. Having lost a few nice coins and bugs in the wild I can sympathize with trying to keep them "alive" by placing restrictions on them (again they are private property and you can do what you want with your own property last time I checked). Also call me crazy but if you feel that someone is charging too much for a product why would you buy it? And if you didn't buy it what would be accomplished by complaining about it on the forums? Either way I think the best solution is to simply ignore the naysayers (and the forums) and continue to enjoy the game (It is a game people, there is no reason to take it so seriously). I sure hope TT decides against retiring and that people chill out with all the negative comments.

 

Couldn't have said it any better! We do not pay any attention to the forums as they are like childrens playgrounds. Sooner or later the kids start fighting and throwing sand in each others eye. So tonight when I found out Tommy & Helen were quiting my heart sank. I wish they would come back. They are truly loved by us!

 

Add my name to the list of cachers that were touched by the TT team. Read their homepage with regret . Don't browse the coin or TB forums, but they sound more vicious than the ones I frequent. Sounds like TT was just being a responsible TB owner by keeping track of his personal TB items.

 

I would like to join the crowd inviting them to come back.

[+HaZzMaTt...]

I feel bad for Tommy Trojan

He probably comes on this board and sees people making fun of him and it makes him sad. He may even cry. I am not sure. Tommy, if you are reading this, I just want to say that I appreciate what you have done. You have spent alot of cash on those travelbugs. I have seen many of them. All of great quality. Hidden in large ammo cans in easily accesible areas for everyone. I really don't think you should quit. You must reconsider.Tommy, your trying to control something that cannot be controlled. Let it go. Let your bugs free, and enjoy their adventures throughout the world. These travel bugs are Geocaching adventurors and must live their existence free.

[+Cornerstone4]

I feel bad for Tommy Trojan

He probably comes on this board and sees people making fun of him and it makes him sad. He may even cry. I am not sure. Tommy, if you are reading this, I just want to say that I appreciate what you have done. You have spent alot of cash on those travelbugs. I have seen many of them. All of great quality. Hidden in large ammo cans in easily accesible areas for everyone. I really don't think you should quit. You must reconsider.Tommy, your trying to control something that cannot be controlled. Let it go. Let your bugs free, and enjoy their adventures throughout the world. These travel bugs are Geocaching adventurors and must live their existence free.

 

Does anyone have any handi-wipes available? I got all sticky just reading that post! It was positively dripping with sarcasm.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Everyone has their own opinion, I don't mind people disagreeing with me or anyone that agrees with this thread...that's what makes this all work...as long as it's in a friendly way and not slamming!

 

Sarcastic or not, I am just happy people are READING this thread and figuring out that NASTY, MALICIOUS and CRUEL comments DO have an impact on us all and have no place in these forums! If Tommy's quitting brings about a nicer forums for all to enjoy, then this isn't a TOTAL loss...just the loss of a truly great contributor!!

[+HaZzMaTt...]

just the loss of a truly great contributor!!

Indeed!

[+tozainamboku]

I feel bad for Tommy Trojan

He probably comes on this board and sees people making fun of him and it makes him sad. He may even cry. I am not sure. Tommy, if you are reading this, I just want to say that I appreciate what you have done. You have spent alot of cash on those travelbugs. I have seen many of them. All of great quality. Hidden in large ammo cans in easily accesible areas for everyone. I really don't think you should quit. You must reconsider.Tommy, your trying to control something that cannot be controlled. Let it go. Let your bugs free, and enjoy their adventures throughout the world. These travel bugs are Geocaching adventurors and must live their existence free.

 

Does anyone have any handi-wipes available? I got all sticky just reading that post! It was positively dripping with sarcasm.

 

I didn't read any sarcasm in this at all, which is very unusual for HaZzMaTt. When you put a travel bug out in a cache you can only hope that people will read the page and move the bug according to its goal. You can, like Tommy Trojan, send email when some one picks up your cache asking politely to move it according to your wishes. But if a cacher choses to ignore your request and hold on to the bug longer or put it in a event or a remote cache that is something that you can't control. I know that people who are into travel bugs (not just Tommy Trojan) really believe that the bug owner should control their bugs and geocachers should always follow the bug owners requests. It's just not going happen all the time.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I know not who HazzMatt is, I have seen his name and such, but I couldn't say as to his intent...nor do I really care! I think the main reason this thread is here is to inform all of what the consequences of being rude and obnoxious in the forums are! In this case, we all lost!

 

I agree, when you loose your TB, you are at the mercy of the masses...most of the people are HAPPY to follow simple rules as Tommy had in place (and he isn't the only one with those rules), some ignored the rules PURPOSELY to cause problems, some just don't know any better or don't care.

 

To me, if a simple request is made NOT to place the TB in a certain place, I won't...it's common courtesy!! If I was to take your car out for a spin (with permission of course), I'd likely NOT beat on it, even though the owner has no real control once it has left the drive!!

[+Snake & Rooster]

 

Here we go again.

[+HaZzMaTt...]

Rockin Roddy said

I think the main reason this thread is here is to inform all of what the consequences of being rude and obnoxious in the forums are! In this case, we all lost!

 

I agree, when you loose your TB, you are at the mercy of the masses...most of the people are HAPPY to follow simple rules as Tommy had in place (and he isn't the only one with those rules), some ignored the rules PURPOSELY to cause problems, some just don't know any better or don't care.

 

To me, if a simple request is made NOT to place the TB in a certain place, I won't...it's common courtesy!! If I was to take your car out for a spin (with permission of course), I'd likely NOT beat on it, even though the owner has no real control once it has left the drive!!

 

Rockin Roddy you ROCK!

I think there are many who share your thoughts

Being mean for the sake of being mean is ...well Just mean!

Imagine all the cachers

Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday they will join us

And the Geo~world will be as one

[+Rockin Roddy]

Just following what my parents tried to teach me...and follow my concience. I was there watching as Tommy was being bashed, I saw a lot of it first hand! I was also thrown insults when I jumped in to his aid...and I was abusive back to a few of them. Sometimes it's tough to be nice when everyone around you is being rude! That doesn't make it right...or better!!

 

I've had message after message come in since posting here and a few other threads...many just won't go into the forums and write any messages these days! Many say it's just too cruel and abusive! I would think we could all make better use of these forums than to hurl insults and spew bile hatred at someone we don't even see just because we don't have to look them in the eye or deal with any aftermath.

 

This is my reasoning for writing everyone that visits one of my caches or moves one of my travelers...getting to know another cacher (even only through email) means I would likely be friendlier to that person in later conversations or chance meetings either in person or virtually!!

 

HAzzMatt's/Lennon's quote hit it right on the nail!! Way to go HazzMatt!!

 

edit to add: I've seen many replies where someone says that it's hard to judge what someone means when they say something...it's impossible to read sarcasm, we are unable to catch the facial expressions! If everyone posting STOPPED and read what they were about to send, and try to imagine how the other cachers might perceive it, maybe that'd be helpful!! Stop the angst before it begins!! After all, if you, the writer thinks your post is a bit sarcastic, the next viewer might read it as heavily sarcastic!!

 

I can't stand some of those answers where the poster says something smart and glib just to show off his/her mentality...which sometimes really isn't worth displaying in public!!

 

also edit to add: spelling is probably a bit off this time of day!!

Edited January 5, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+Dave_W6DPS]

I am amazed that this has gone on for as long as it has.

 

They quit.

 

Life continues--and so does this thread apparrently.

 

Tommy Trojan caches were usually above average. Not the best, but not bad. Them I will miss.

 

He added to the number of travel bugs--as much for his own enjoyment as for anyone else's.

 

He also added to the level of angst and politics by expecting others to play the game his way and trying to enforce his rules.

 

He made himself a lightening rod, and then quit when lightening struck.

 

I can't help but notice that his biggest cheerleader lives half a continent away and the more vocal critics are those nearby who dealt with him more often.

 

Can't we all just get over it and move along?

 

Dave_W6DPS

 

{PS. Matt, you really slay me--sometimes....}

[+HaZzMaTt...]

PS. Matt, you really slay me--sometimes....

 

You're welcome!

My youth pastor at my church tells me I have a real knac for preaching and spreading the word

He says I'm very charismatic !...but then again so was Jim Jones!

Edited January 5, 2007 by HaZzMaTt...

[+ArtieD]

I am amazed that this has gone on for as long as it has.

 

They quit.

 

Life continues--and so does this thread apparrently.

 

Tommy Trojan caches were usually above average. Not the best, but not bad. Them I will miss.

 

He added to the number of travel bugs--as much for his own enjoyment as for anyone else's.

 

He also added to the level of angst and politics by expecting others to play the game his way and trying to enforce his rules.

 

He made himself a lightening rod, and then quit when lightening struck.

 

I can't help but notice that his biggest cheerleader lives half a continent away and the more vocal critics are those nearby who dealt with him more often.

 

Can't we all just get over it and move along?

 

Dave_W6DPS

 

{PS. Matt, you really slay me--sometimes....}

 

Amen...to all of this...

[+Rockin Roddy]

Oh...I don't think so! If you are tired of reading this post, there ARE others out there! I didn't MAKE you come here and add to the thread, you did that for yourself!! I love the fact that some come on here to complain about our "cheering" praises of Tommy's contributions, makes me think that we are doing good here...don't let them forget!!

 

As for the "cheerleader" being way over here...you'd be AMAZED at the info that pours into my inbox! Little SOCAL birdies fly in all the time with nice tidbits of info!! As the post says above, many won't add to the forums because of the MOB mentality that some exhibit here!

 

Sounds like you were a fan HazzMatt, did you enjoy Tommy's TBs?? Were you one of those (like myself) that was crushed to hear such a great person would just quit when those that were "less than friendly" BASHED him for his GIVING?? Those that can't stand kindness try to defeat it with rudeness...but that just shows how IGNORANT they really are. A charismatic souls as yourself probably wouldn't be like that...would you??

 

Tell me this Dave...how much differently from anyone else were Tommy's "ways to play"?? You act like Tommy is the ONLY soul that wants to keep their TBs safe and not lost after some event or placed in some out of the way cache! Were you one of those that refused to follow his "rules" because they were "just too hard"??

 

From what I've read and have learned in other threads about the TBs, the owner has EVERY right to place rules on their TBs, so if that's the problem, your problem is with the PTB...not TOMMY!!!

[+HaZzMaTt...]

why do so many want to shut us down??

Why so much hate?

The truth hurts..I guess