RREngineer

Archiving them and having another put out their cache or take over the one that was there is a good idea. I did that on a set I had. Both the new owner and myself were told that the next time we did that, we will be required to adopt over the cache to next owner. So much for that idea.

Do I worry about how others find my caches. Not really. The standards each cacher makes for themselves won't change due to our/your/my opinion. A local cacher went to several events with me and did numerous searches. When I looked at the logs it showed the spouse's name had also done them. That's their problem not mine. I don't want to take credit for one that I haven't done. I have a 5/5 7 stage that people trade some of the info on where a particular stage is located. I still haven't seen those people go to the effort of actually finding the cache. I have a numerous Puzzle Caches and one set requires assistance to do both of them. A cacher found a unique way around part of the requirements to zero in on the final stage of one of them. I was, to say the least, impressed at the way he managed to solve the puzzle. So when he contacted me about a little discrepancy, I offered a little advice that allowed him to find the cache. There is no point in my having put out 100's of caches, (I enjoy putting them out), and not have people find them. Seems to me that is a waste of time. I want people to think, scratch their heads and then get the satisfaction of finding those that are not your PNG type of cache. That's just IMHO.

Here in central Florida it is always in Meltdown conditions so I thought I would see if the coin would melt down before an egg would cook on the sidewalk. The egg lost and so did I! Hey Roger, you forgot to let us know how it tasted, the egg that is.

Sure did, but it started raining too hard to take a picuture out on the track. The ride lasts at least 45minutes if there is only 1 train running.

Engineer's view

Found this one near miniature railroad that I was going to visit. Got a picture of coin #38 inside one of the steam engines.Fireman's side view Engineer's side view Getting ready to ride one of the diesels

IMHO there has been too much repetition for/against Puzzle/Mystery Caches without worthwhile input. I'm one of those that put out Puzzle/Mystery Caches. I could have put out regular caches in those same areas but what would you have learned while in the area. Probably nothing, because you would have signed the log, and then gone back to your car, probably in a hurry to go to a nearby light pole hide for another smiley. Several of mine give you a history lesson of happenings in the area. Some required you to do other caches and get clues to them. Does that make them hard? Nope, but that is how they get listed. I don't make the rules. One looked very difficult to solve but, in fact, was really simple. Those that were unsuccessful solving the puzzle may have a different opinion about how easy it was. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...78-daa941cd6edd I currently have a 5/5 that had to be listed as a Puzzle because you must find each stage and then do some math to get the coords for the next stage. If you are in the area and you want to spend time on the hunt with minimal time on the puzzle, here it is. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...4d-a05cd76362e3. It is not your normal walk in the park type search, you will spend a fair amount of time hunting for each stage. The nice thing about this one is that if you get tired of searching, you won't have a long walk back to your vehicle. I guess what I really want to say is, "Don't pass over a cache just because it is a Puzzle/Mystery Cache."

I would be remiss if I didn't put my thoughts on the forum. Though I haven't met either Tommy or Helen, I have exchanged emails with them. And yes, one of the earliest was about placing a TB in an event. But a lot of TB's and Geocoins have specific goals and rules, not just theirs. I don't see what is the problem with that. They are his to do with as he chooses and it is up to the rest of us to abide by his wishes. That particular TB, I mentioned, is clipped to my camera bag or key chain, all the time, and has traveled a great many miles with me, with Tommy's okay. I also put out a TT cache in my area that some of his TB's pass through as they start their journey. I try to play the game the way it is intended but there are many out there that feel that the caches, TB's and Geocoins are there for them to do as they want. I get upset when my caches get raided, as I'm sure TT did also with the loss o fhis TB's and Geocoins. For the ones that get cleaned out a number of times, I make them micros. Tommy and Helen decided it isn't worth the aggravation and they quit. It's a shame for so few to cause problems for so many. I just hope that you are satified with the results. Sorry to lose you Tommy and Helen.

So how far is far enough away to suit you from a business for an urban cache? By the road? Across the street? In a park that the cache is by the corner that happens to have a business next door? Or farther away, but I can still see some kind of business? How about one near a steel mill. Now I know that I would just run right in there and tell them to toss a couple tons in the trunk of my car. We have urban caches and they are a fact of life. Rather than me saying that if you don't like'm, don't do'm. I offer a suggestion. What we should do is plead, beg and what ever is needed to get GC to add a few icons to say this one is an urban cache and also have one for micros. This would save all that wasted time for those that don't like to download all that info and then having to do it over and over again to get around those pesky caches. That could also allow for eliminating those caches when doing a PQ. All of this is just IMHO.

Boy are you all missing a good chance to do some good PR for Geocaching. Instead of sitting here complaining and making snide comments, you should be out there rectifying the stituation or making sure it doesn't happen in your area. It appears the Chief is knowledgeable about what we are doing. And I don't see any negative comments by him, trying to ban Geocaching, or going after the person that placed the cache. I don't have that problem where I live. I make a point of meeting with the LEO's in each area that I place of cache, if it might cause them some concern. Sometimes I have had to go back numerous times to make sure all the officers are informed but it sure saves a lot of problems for the searchers. It is easy to sit and complain but it takes work to do what is right and needed. I have never been told I can't place a cache in those areas. The only thing some want to know, is where they might be placed. It is easier to inform them ahead of time than later having to go back and doing a lot of explaining after the fact. If they aren't happy with the idea when presented, you know they certainly won't like it when they get called about a potentially hazardous item.

All that worry and aggravation could be eliminated if it is possible to place or mount the tag so it hangs with the number towards the TB. As far as the long chain goes, cut it as short as possible to get the job done.

It seems that some people need to get a life. Hey, these are just travelbugs. I have heard it said, "You pay your money and you take your chances." If you want you TB left as is, them put a tag on it and state it. That way no one has to contact you to ask permission to do you a favor. Besides, probably by the time it goes through several more caches it will revert back to it previous condition. I have found some TBs that are so bad that they lay in the cache for months because a lot of people don't want to touch them. As far as events go, I have the attendees log them in and out, have someone assigned to do it, or do it myself. On another note, I picked up a TB in California, TBGKMW, when I traveled there from Florida, in October of last year. I still have it. It travels with me logging caches as I go. It is my adopted TB now until I get tired of logging in and out of caches.. I can see the miles that I have traveled since picking it up. And before anyone gets upset, the owner likes the idea that I am moving it so much rather than have it sit for months on end in some seldom visited cache. Did he put it out there to do that, no. But he likes the idea of the constant moving. He now has almost 600 TBs in circulation. Sorry, I got a little off track on this thread. Here is a question for all the nay sayers. What would you do if you go to pickup the TB and someone has taken the bug but left the tag? TBGKMW. I wrote the owner about the situation. He was not very happy and was going to list it as MIA, and give up on TBs. I told him I had another item that looked a lot like his and I would try to send it on its way. I couldn't find it so I copied the picture of the TB, laminated it, and attached the tag and it is continuing on it mission. Did I get a thanks from the owner, No. If I hadn't done that then I would probably be stuck with a usless set of TB tags. Ichecked before I wrote this post and see that the TB is still traveling. On the other hand, an owner puts a TB goal sheet with the bug and puts it in a plastic bag. Now I go to find it. How do I know that the owner wants to have it that way? Did some kind sole put all that with the TB or did the owner. I am in a quandry now. The only way to find out is to email the owner to find out his/her wishes. I am not going to do that. Someone adds stuff and others remove it. As I said at the start, "Get a life. These are only TBs." Okay, I feel better now. Have a good day. For what it was worth, it just IMHO. And I like sticking those icons in the post.

That too, but I was actually thinking of the ones that take the hint and decrypt it at the cache.

I am caching in Denver for a week over the holidays and notice a trend towards worthless hints. But before I get to the subject of this thread, I want to say I have enjoyed some nice caches in this area of the country. Well thought out, and placed in interesting places. Most anyone that knows me knows that I don't put any caches in my gps, don't use a pda, and usually only take the coordinates with me when I cache. There are time that I don't even write down the container I am looking for. And I have had to go back to an area after reading the hint. That's just the way I cache. But I do look at the logs to see if it has gone MIA or in an area I am physically unable to do. The type of cache is not a concern. When I get back I look to see what the hints were and how it would have affected my searching. The following is just my opinion for what it may be worth. I think I speak for others and especially the new cachers that are at the area of a cache, can't find it, and then spend the time to decifer a short and sometimes even a long hint to only find our that it says, IF YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE FINDING THIS CACHE YOU CAN EMAIL FOR A HINT IF YOU..............." This also goes for "YOU DON'T NEED A HINT BECAUSE ITS TOO EASY, ETC." Anyway you get the idea. Just imagine that you are one of the new cachers and have spent a 1/2 hour or more and then get that message. When I 1st started caching that would have made me stop and think about continuing. If it is not a hint, then why bother putting anything in that area? If it is information that pertains to the cache, just put it on the page. This also goes for the other general info that has nothing to do with cache or finding it. If you are proud of your kids, g'kids job or what ever, make a note on the bottom of the cache page not in the hints. I think you get the idea of where I am coming from. This problem is not just in Denver but everywhere. Not every cache needs a hint. A lot of times, when I place a cache, I just put subtle hints in the title and on the page. I plan on being back here again for more excellent caching. And as I said at the beginning, this is just IMHO.

I have found that most web sites don't take into account a problem that affects, not just a few people, but more than seems possible. If I'm not mistaken it is in the 15-20% range. I am refering to those of us the are color challenged. It runs the gamut from slight to almost total color blindness. All those different colors are nice but not for us. Why can't appropriate letters be used instead? No shade, light shade, and dark shade boxes work as do symbols and shapes.

You can cut your emails in half by having them not drop the coin/TB. Tell them to just grab it from whomever is holding it. After a sufficient amount of time has passed, you can grab it yourself.

There seems to be more time spent on why the cache name or GC number shouldn't/can't/doesn't need to be added than the time it would take to do it. That would satify that problem that I also would like to see changed. The ones that think that is lazy then they can do it the way they always have done it and then everyone will be happy. Besides, it not laziness. Its frustration to click on the email link and then you remember you don't have the GC number and then have to go back to look for it. So, everyone that does that suffers for the few line that could be added to solve the problem.

Well this thread started out as tongue-in-cheek and has regressed to compaining. What I see is those that are really complaining, haven't put out many caches and also aren't out there putting out regular caches in all those good spots. Those spots were available before the micros were placed. Do I like micros? You bet. Do I place them, I sure do. But mine aren't for those that are looking for a quick grab and go. For those that like micros, come and try a few of mine. The following is a quote from GeoSar, "Some will make your brain itch."

I thought I read all of the postings for this thread but I didn't see a mention to one that will give you credit for placing those film cannisters. Fold Bags to help Trash out, placed by Inventor GC38E3 was started on 5/22/2002, in Utah.

I got tired of reading all the same complaints, over and over, so I will just make my comments without reading most of them. Well I guess those micro hating Geocachers really won't want to do a lot of my caches. But then again, I get the impression they want the larger containers that are easier to find. Probably a case of poor eyesight. I don't mind putting out the ammo cans, but I get discouraged having to replenish the contents so the ammo can lovers can raid them. After that happens enough I just archive it or change it to a micro. I have put out micros that are easy to get to, no bushwhacking required, very visible and easy to retrieve. I wish you luck if you think you can just walk up to them and find them immediately. Here are a few reasons why I put out the micros: they don't require a lot of hiking in the hot Florida sun, they are relatively easy to get to for those that are handicapped, and it really is hard on me doing long hikes. With that said, some of mine you can drive to within a few feet of them, but they will tax your brain trying to find them. I put mine out for those that enjoy the hunt, the the long hot hikes are too much to do, and the knowledge that if they don't find it, they will just be able to get right back in their car and head to the next spot. Do I only hunt micros? Nope, I do them all. For those that say their kids get discourage about not finding anything to trade, I think what is being said is that the parent is using this as an excuse to complain on this thread. If a child knows, in advance, that there will be nothing to trade then they shouldn't get discouraged. It seems that the adult is not educating the child as to what this sport is about and what will be there when they find it. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. We have kids in this area that like trading but also like to beat their parents to the micros. I know that not everyone likes micros, so I have also put out some regular caches as large as 16" wide and 16" high, that you can drive right up to within a few feet of them, no bushwhacking required, they are in plain sight and easy to retrieve, and they are just as difficult to find as my micros.

Well as one of the rabid cachers in my area, I go for FTFs. But I don't go for all of them. I also do the hard ones too. The longest was a 5 1/2 hr hike in a linear park, 6 miles in and 6 miles back out to get the FTF. I put 300 miles on my vehicle to get a couple FTFs in an area that the local cachers weren't successful with their hunting. It really doesn't matter if they are easy or hard if I can get there 1st. And I get beat for the FTF many times. Here is a little tidbit to help you get the FTFs. You don't have to be on the computer all the time. The trick is to figure out when your area approver is okaying caches and check at that time of day. Good luck.

After reading the comments in this thread I had to make one of my own. I don't have a year at this endeavor yet. But I have more caches placed than most other cachers in my area. Micros? Yes, I have place a bunch of them. My rate of placing is about 15% caches that are not micros. For health reasons, treks into the woods that are long and/or involve much physical agility really cause me problems. Are we doing this for what we can get out of the cache or for the fun in finding them? As others have said, "If you don't like micros, then don't do them." I have micros that you can drive within a few feet of them and then spend a LOT of time trying to find them. Some of my hardest ones are in plain sight. Complaints that some of mine are too hard to find prompted me to do an E Z series. It is obvious to me that caches in my area that I have as a 4 or 5 difficulty level are not high on the priority list to find. This also is the trend on puzzle caches. Most of the activity surrounds the easy caches. So, do we not do caches for those people that have no desire for adventure or do a variety so you have a choice for your style of caching? I prefer a variety myself.

I wasn't going to respond to this but something forced me to do it anyway. I would ask this question, "How many of you have seen an actual pipe bomb, except in the movies, to know what it would actually look like?" Here starts my diatribe. If you go to the posted coordinates and that container fits the description and location and you won't pick it up because it might explode, then you need to consider that any container can be rigged. So there goes your fun at GEOCACHING. You are going to need to find another hobby like watching paint peel. And how many of these so called dangerous looking items have we scattered about so just any passer-by can easily see them. If they aren't hidden, then what's the purpose of putting them out there. I'm sure that the person that sees the container is so worried about it being a bomb that their 1st thought that comes to mind is to get real close to it so they can read that sticker. Hmmmmmm? And I guess that the bombers out there haven't thought that maybe that would be a good idea to mislabel the next one they leave for someone to find and maybe put a label on it that says Geocache container. Oh, and they may also try to conceal the countdown clock that is required for all bombs so we know that we only have 2 seconds to live. Sorry for those that are taking this personally, but get a life. The sky isn't falling. The type of container and where it is to be hidden should be paramount to every cache placement. And if it isn't, then don't hide it. End diatribe here. For those of you that are laughing, have a good day and happy hunting. Ok, I think this all started with a question on how to keep the water out? Ziplocks were suggested and they work good for mine. Or if possible, fix it so it can only be returned to the hiding spot with the same end down each time. Make that end the one that opens. If it isn't sitting in water, that should take care of most of your problems. How about hanging it with the opening down? Hope this is of some help . ---> Some say the glass is half full. Others say it is half empty. I think the answer is that it is the wrong size.<--- My son just walked by and said the real issue is, "if you are pouring or drinking".

There are magnets that are sold at Harbor Freight, but are probably a little big for what you want. Just something to consider for another cache. Cost is $0.99 when on sale. Look in the welding supplies. Size is about 3x3x3/4.