Geocoins and my dissappointments.

[+redtailfalconer]

 

Selling coins for the cost and shipping/envelope etc maybe heck even add $0.25(that would be a quarter) for licking the stamp. But I am seeing $2....$3.....$4 dollars a pop being made on top of that.

 

Now the twist I am seeing......this is genius!!!! Give design to a mint and have them give you a handful of coins and they will sell the remainder at the typical $7.50-$10 mark and they pocket the rest.

 

The majority of coins made are done through the maker selling the coins. Not that many are done with having the minting company sell coin. It actually costs a bundle to make a coin. $100-$150 for 1 3D die, $50-$100 on 1 2D die. $1.50 per tracking number from Groundspeak. $150 for a custom icon. Keeping track of orders, invoicing, packaging, mailing. Filling out those oh so fun customs papers for international shipping. It's alot of time all around spent on a coin. The designer, cacher making the coin, minter, ect.

[+Dr. Whoever]

I have been very happy with the geocoins...until today... A cacher said they liked my coin, but could not afford it. So, I sent them a coin free of charge. I paid for shipping, everything. As soon as this person recieved it, it went right on ebay. It really makes me question why I would try to be nice and do something for somebody else.

--Redtailfalconer

 

Yep! Seen this one too. I left about 8 Star geocoins from here in Central California to Vegas and Utah. I've also seen a few random ones come out on ebay.

[funkoptimus]

 

 

Making trackable coins helps support the site.

 

And shame on these people for making money! It should be a crime! How dare they spend hours upon hours working on a design, working with a coin company, packaging mailing, spending forever at the Post Office. Not to mention selling the coin, and getting flamed in the fourm. They should just do that for free!

 

I dont mean to come across as shaming and maybe I am talking out of element as I am a newbie. But flaming?? Come on that is hardly flaming.......

 

But imagine reading about coins and collecting for a short period of time and looking into doing one myself and then finding out that someone is making a bundle. Like I said in my post I can see why their is an upcharge as there is time put into it when it comes to mailing etc and anyone who is doing mass mailing I am sure hates spending hours doing it. But I looked into making my own coin as a signature item. Yes it is more plain than some maybe even half of them. But it also was on par for alot of other coins I have seen that are being sold for $7-9 amounts.

 

"How dare they spend hours upon hours working on a design, working with a coin company.....", But if someone is making a coin that is their own signature item shouldnt the pride of designing a coin be payment enough?? Should people who think out a great cache put pride into that charge for it?

 

I realize the clubs do it for fund raising and other charity things...fine money should be made.... See no problem in that.

I like seeing people that trade their coins rather than sell for other peoples that they want in their collection. I think that is great and makes sense to my simple minded self. Wooden coins and other such items are just as wonderful and you can see they put alot of time into some of them. Dont see them being sold but are traded.

 

I also know that the site is supported by the prices added to the coins for icons and tracking etc. I also have been a moderator to sites as large or larger and have been in discussion to what money is needed to keep it up and running. They too have a "premium"member fee along with a small store supporting it. But that is it.

 

Like I said I am new and I want to understand and I hope that my gut feeling is wrong. I would love to enjoy this part of the coin hobby.

Edited December 7, 2006 by funkoptimus

[funkoptimus]

 

Selling coins for the cost and shipping/envelope etc maybe heck even add $0.25(that would be a quarter) for licking the stamp. But I am seeing $2....$3.....$4 dollars a pop being made on top of that.

 

Now the twist I am seeing......this is genius!!!! Give design to a mint and have them give you a handful of coins and they will sell the remainder at the typical $7.50-$10 mark and they pocket the rest.

 

The majority of coins made are done through the maker selling the coins. Not that many are done with having the minting company sell coin. It actually costs a bundle to make a coin. $100-$150 for 1 3D die, $50-$100 on 1 2D die. $1.50 per tracking number from Groundspeak. $150 for a custom icon. Keeping track of orders, invoicing, packaging, mailing. Filling out those oh so fun customs papers for international shipping. It's alot of time all around spent on a coin. The designer, cacher making the coin, minter, ect.

 

I know it adds up quick but in the math I have done the numbers dont seem to add up to a small profit. I could be missing something.

 

I just know in this small of time their are people that create the coins to track and the pride of having a signature item to leave behind.

 

Other create their own to trade.

 

Some might be looking to make some money. If it be the minter or the fellow caching about with his/her coin and selling a few hundred.

 

hey like I said I am new and I want to understand and enjoy all of this.

Edited December 7, 2006 by funkoptimus

[+MustangJoni]

I wasn't specifically talking about you flaming with your post. Read some of the coin announcements, you'll see plenty of it.

 

And also in you earlier post, you didn't specifically say personal coins. But since that seems to be what you are talking about, I'll bite. I did my personal coin earlier this year. I sold enough of them to pay for the 500 I ordered. Some will think that is wrong, but that was the only way I could afford to do the coin. I don't have 2 grand laying around. So that is what I did. In the end, I was able to drop about 50 unactivated coins in caches. I got a lot of good feedback from that. And I made a lot of trades.

 

Now, if I had it to do over, I would do it differently. My next coin will be non-trackable and trade only. Why? Because when I sold coins to cover the coins I was keeping, then the people I wanted to trade with bought them. So, I did profit from my coins, but I profited in coins, not cash.

 

Now the commercial coins you see out there are a different animal. If I was in a business of creating and selling coins, then yes, I would charge more than I paid (Business 101) and use the money to create more coins.

Edited December 7, 2006 by MustangJoni

[funkoptimus]

................. I did my personal coin earlier this year. I sold enough of them to pay for the 500 I ordered. Some will think that is wrong, but that was the only way I could afford to do the coin. I don't have 2 grand laying around. So that is what I did. In the end, I was able to drop about 50 unactivated coins in caches. I got a lot of good feedback from that. And I made a lot of trades.

 

Now, if I had it to do over, I would do it differently. My next coin will be non-trackable and trade only. Why? Because when I sold coins to cover the coins I was keeping, then the people I wanted to trade with bought them. So, I did profit from my coins, but I profited in coins, not cash.

 

Now the commercial coins you see out there are a different animal. If I was in a business of creating and selling coins, then yes, I would charge more than I paid (Business 101) and use the money to create more coins.

 

Selling enough to break even isnt a big deal to my opinion. Business 101-yes sure you are trying to make money. Simple concept. But shouldnt it be disclosed??

 

I went into this hobby thinking $7-9 is what a coin costs and with maybe a small upcharge to be safe. But after doing the math I know money is being made unknown to newbies. Sure we all can look into it and find out on our own. But it is a rude suprise when you are thinking this is a grass root hobby with people trading and placing in caches.

 

To me I dont like bussiness being mixed in with something as simple as geocaching. I realize anything that is popular has a commerical sense to it. But I dont like people hiding like a wolf making money while some are doing it just for fun.

 

On another note the cost to make a coin trackable is a bit much IMHO but hey I dont run the site or know what is needed. I just know the in's and out's of sites I have been a part of that have 60k plus registered members.

[+MustangJoni]

[selling enough to break even isnt a big deal to my opinion. Business 101-yes sure you are trying to make money. Simple concept. But shouldnt it be disclosed??

 

Why?

 

I think the majority of us in the forums know how much it cost to make a coin. It really doesn't take much research to figure that out. I don't think anything is hidden.

 

If you don't like business mixed with geocaching, then you don't have to participate. But please let me have my fun! I love collecting coins. I love to have 3 or 4 padded mailers in the mail! I know people make money off of me. They also make money off of me when I go to Walmart. I enjoy coins. I think of them as little pieces of art.

[+Kealia]

To follow up my previous post about the Moun10Bike coin in the wild:

 

It's still there after another finder hit the cache after me:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...82-478fe8436d5b

 

From his discovered log on the coin:

Found this in the Sombroso Spur cache. Thank you and thanks to Kealia for setting this loose in the wild. Left it for others to enjoy.

 

In addition, he added MORE coins to the cache when he left!

 

See....there's still coins moving and good people out there.

[funkoptimus]

[selling enough to break even isnt a big deal to my opinion. Business 101-yes sure you are trying to make money. Simple concept. But shouldnt it be disclosed??

 

Why?

 

I think the majority of us in the forums know how much it cost to make a coin. It really doesn't take much research to figure that out. I don't think anything is hidden.

 

If you don't like business mixed with geocaching, then you don't have to participate. But please let me have my fun! I love collecting coins. I love to have 3 or 4 padded mailers in the mail! I know people make money off of me. They also make money off of me when I go to Walmart. I enjoy coins. I think of them as little pieces of art.

 

How would my posting of questions keep from having your fun?? Go ahead and collect. I am just asking questions and trying to have a discussion. Matter of fact I am looking to collect and maybe design a coin. I am jsut sharing my opinion and my feelings.

 

Using the comparison to Walmart doenst hold any water. You go to Walmart as a buyer and you know it is a bussiness.

 

Up until I decided too maybe create a coin I didnt realize their is 30-50% markup on some selling coins...if they be private or a minter.

 

Like I said buy and sell away. But I am not the only one that is a "newbie" that didnt know people are making money on them .(Other than the minters etc)

 

So yeah I meet not take this part of the hobby on and I wont frown on anyone who does. So have fun and enjoy your collecting, designing, trading and selling. I might just do the wooden nickels etc design them drop tehm off in cache or trade and have fun knowing I dont have too sell them etc or take out a small loan.

 

Cheers!!

Edited December 7, 2006 by funkoptimus

[+markz68]

I have just recently started collecting coins. I am trying to avoid the e place unless it is a coin I just MUST have. And I am only buying/trading for coins that have a special meaning to me.

 

I have only found 2 coins in the wild and they were both while on vacation in Texas (the same day actually). I brought them both back to Indiana and released them again.

 

I also hid a cache with my Texas friends and left an activated coin that I owned in it. The person who took it said that he'd move it on the next week. He logged a few caches that next week (back in July), but didn't drop my coin. I have emailed him several times about either releasing my coin or sending it to me, but he won't answer. He has never logged another cache, but has visited GC.com as recently as two days ago. I guess that one is just lost forever

 

As for trading coins, there was one I really wanted bad. It's the coolest coin I have seen. I tried every way to Sunday to arrange a trade, but didn't have anything trade-worthy yet that the coin owner didn't already have. The coin owner offered to send me a coin for free! All that was asked of me was that I promise that if I am ever in the position to be able to, that I do the same for some other new collector. I can assure you THAT coin will never leave my collection at any price. It will be among the stuff my kids or grandkids will someday inherit.

 

After I inquired about another coin, the designer of that coin sent me one free too. Again, I will never let that one go either.

 

And another coin that was handed to me on the trail by the owner will never leave my collection either.

 

I can't wait till I am in a position to have some coins made! I really wanna be able to "pay forward" the kindness I have encountered since I started geocaching/coincollecting!

[funkoptimus]

To follow up my previous post about the Moun10Bike coin in the wild:

 

It's still there after another finder hit the cache after me:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...82-478fe8436d5b

 

From his discovered log on the coin:

Found this in the Sombroso Spur cache. Thank you and thanks to Kealia for setting this loose in the wild. Left it for others to enjoy.

 

In addition, he added MORE coins to the cache when he left!

 

See....there's still coins moving and good people out there.

 

Right on!!

[+Kealia]

funkoptimus -

 

You are not alone in your thinking. There are many people who do not sell thier personal coins (cache or trade only_ and still view them as sig items and not a for-profit venture.

 

I don't look down on the people who do sell their coins - I just think that if you can't afford to make them, you don't. It's not "eliteist" or anything like that, it's just life.

 

I can't afford to drive a $100,000 car - so I don't.

 

In any case, this "hobby" of coins is just a tangent to caching on the whole as far as I'm concerned. There's lots of ways to enjoyo it, so just find a way that works for you.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

What I'm trying to understand is, Does it matter? Here me out, I don't want to come off rudely. Let the greedy mark it up so high they get burned (as we've seen). A coin is only worth what you're willing to spend on it anyway. It's true about everything ever produced. There are really cool coins out there that are priced at what I'm willing to spend and I will spend on them. There are a few that I can't understand anyone having an interest in (although I usually want them when I hear the stories behind them ). Just don't let it ruin your experience with coins. Support your friends and they'll support you. Ignore the gougers and they'll reap their reward. Posting your concerns is a valid way to bring them to the light and I commend you for being pragmatic and level-headed when it's so easy to go on a flamefest when people disagree. I can't imagine that many of us would have any problem sharing with you what it took to have our coins made. Many of us like MJ just didn't have the overhead to do it all on our own. We received an amazing amount of help from the whole community finding out what it takes to make a coin and we're eternally grateful. So don't waste time being dissappointed. Ask us for help and we'll happily give you all we can. In the end, it's good cachers (like the people who came up with the coin concept to begin with) who keep rewarding us by putting these treasures out in caches and make it all worthwhile. Like many things in life, this experience is what you want to make of it. The reward is in the journey, not the destination.

[funkoptimus]

funkoptimus -

 

You are not alone in your thinking. There are many people who do not sell thier personal coins (cache or trade only_ and still view them as sig items and not a for-profit venture.

 

I don't look down on the people who do sell their coins - I just think that if you can't afford to make them, you don't. It's not "eliteist" or anything like that, it's just life.

 

I can't afford to drive a $100,000 car - so I don't.

 

In any case, this "hobby" of coins is just a tangent to caching on the whole as far as I'm concerned. There's lots of ways to enjoyo it, so just find a way that works for you.

 

That is what my thinking is but it did come as a surprise to me to find out how much these are marked up.

 

So I will move on. maybe pick out one or two I like. Start a couple bugs traveling and create some sig. items. I might even create a coin to trade as their are some pretty neat ones out there.

 

Do most people trade??

[funkoptimus]

What I'm trying to understand is, Does it matter? Here me out, I don't want to come off rudely. Let the greedy mark it up so high they get burned (as we've seen). A coin is only worth what you're willing to spend on it anyway. It's true about everything ever produced. There are really cool coins out there that are priced at what I'm willing to spend and I will spend on them. There are a few that I can't understand anyone having an interest in (although I usually want them when I hear the stories behind them ). Just don't let it ruin your experience with coins. Support your friends and they'll support you. Ignore the gougers and they'll reap their reward. Posting your concerns is a valid way to bring them to the light and I commend you for being pragmatic and level-headed when it's so easy to go on a flamefest when people disagree. I can't imagine that many of us would have any problem sharing with you what it took to have our coins made. Many of us like MJ just didn't have the overhead to do it all on our own. We received an amazing amount of help from the whole community finding out what it takes to make a coin and we're eternally grateful. So don't waste time being dissappointed. Ask us for help and we'll happily give you all we can. In the end, it's good cachers (like the people who came up with the coin concept to begin with) who keep rewarding us by putting these treasures out in caches and make it all worthwhile. Like many things in life, this experience is what you want to make of it. The reward is in the journey, not the destination.

 

Well said I wish I could word my thoughts as well as you just did. I share alot of the same feelings and understand what you are saying. I just need to discuss and poke and prod around so I can make up my own mind.

 

thanx for sharing and for lending the offer for help!!

[+Cornerstone4]

funkoptimus -

 

You are not alone in your thinking. There are many people who do not sell thier personal coins (cache or trade only_ and still view them as sig items and not a for-profit venture.

 

I don't look down on the people who do sell their coins - I just think that if you can't afford to make them, you don't. It's not "eliteist" or anything like that, it's just life.

 

I can't afford to drive a $100,000 car - so I don't.

 

In any case, this "hobby" of coins is just a tangent to caching on the whole as far as I'm concerned. There's lots of ways to enjoyo it, so just find a way that works for you.

 

That is what my thinking is but it did come as a surprise to me to find out how much these are marked up.

 

So I will move on. maybe pick out one or two I like. Start a couple bugs traveling and create some sig. items. I might even create a coin to trade as their are some pretty neat ones out there.

 

Do most people trade??

 

Nearly all folks trade their coins. Getting your own personal coins made is the most cost effective way to get a good collection started. It will be much cheaper than buying 100 coins individually...

[+MustangJoni]

funkoptimus -

 

You are not alone in your thinking. There are many people who do not sell thier personal coins (cache or trade only_ and still view them as sig items and not a for-profit venture.

 

I don't look down on the people who do sell their coins - I just think that if you can't afford to make them, you don't. It's not "eliteist" or anything like that, it's just life.

 

I can't afford to drive a $100,000 car - so I don't.

 

In any case, this "hobby" of coins is just a tangent to caching on the whole as far as I'm concerned. There's lots of ways to enjoyo it, so just find a way that works for you.

Kelia, I do respect your opinion on the selling of personal coins. I'm choosing not to sell my next one, merely because I want to trade it.

 

As for not making them because I can't afford it, I could afford it, if I sold some! LOL - Which brings the catch 22 that I want to trade them, and people who want them will buy them. At the time I did my first coin, there was the pressure to have an icon, and at that time, you had to do 500 coins. Now I don't feel that pressure. It will be non-trackable.

 

But I will still profit from this...in coins. I will produce my coins for about $5 each. If I trade it for a coin that is selling for $6, then I've made a buck. Not in cash, but in coins! So profit is all in how you look at it.

 

And funkoptimus, I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you! LOL - I just happen to think there are a lot of good people on this forum who sell coins, and might profit in a way you don't even realize! The happiness that I received from the 12 year old girl who picked up one of my coins in a cache. And it was all hers! And she sent it out to travel, and she sends me an email every couple of weeks to tell me where her coin is now (even though I'm watching it). That would not have been possible had I not had coins to put in caches. And the "community" can pat itself on the back for that, because without them, it wouldn't be possible. I'm sure there are other stories just like that out there.

 

Profit, yea...I got mine!

[+Kealia]

Kelia, I do respect your opinion on the selling of personal coins. I'm choosing not to sell my next one, merely because I want to trade it.

 

 

Thanks, but remember that it's just that -an opinion.

 

Oh, and spell my name right!

[+MustangJoni]

Oops!

[+nooks]

 

I like to leave a local mark when I travel too

 

edit: typos (sigh)

 

That explains the puddle....

 

Don't make me use that report button....

 

Anybody want to go after the Moun10Bike coin I dropped - here's the hike:

 

 

 

Hey, it wasn't THAT bad.

 

As to geocoin disappointments. I had my first today. I got the lips geocoin and the glitter on the lips

rubs off! I thought it would be epoxied, but I shouldn't have assumed. I wonder if I can seal them in some way. Any recommendations?

[+MustangJoni]

Clear nail polish?

[+nooks]

Clear nail polish?

 

Thanks, Joni

I thought of that, but I don't think it will stick to the black nickel part very well. I also thought about Elmers glue

but dismissed it for the same reason.

[+Degai]

[selling enough to break even isnt a big deal to my opinion. Business 101-yes sure you are trying to make money. Simple concept. But shouldnt it be disclosed??

 

Why?

 

I think the majority of us in the forums know how much it cost to make a coin. It really doesn't take much research to figure that out. I don't think anything is hidden.

 

If you don't like business mixed with geocaching, then you don't have to participate. But please let me have my fun! I love collecting coins. I love to have 3 or 4 padded mailers in the mail! I know people make money off of me. They also make money off of me when I go to Walmart. I enjoy coins. I think of them as little pieces of art.

 

Wow! Thanks for justifying the way I feel about coins. You are right, they are like little pieces of art. I just need a good way to display them, so I can see them more often.

[+geoSquid]

Selling enough to break even isnt a big deal to my opinion. Business 101-yes sure you are trying to make money. Simple concept. But shouldnt it be disclosed??

 

No. This is a hobby, not government budgeting of tax dollars.

 

I went into this hobby thinking $7-9 is what a coin costs and with maybe a small upcharge to be safe. But after doing the math I know money is being made unknown to newbies.

 

It's really nobody's business how much money is, or is not being made.

 

All that should matter to the newbie, or anyone else, is:

 

Do I think this coin is worth the price being charged?

 

If the answer to that is "yes" then purchase the coin. If the answer is "no", then shrug it off and move on. The philosophy of how the coin is made and distributed is the domain of the maker and distributor.

[+Shop99er]

Clear nail polish?

 

Thanks, Joni

I thought of that, but I don't think it will stick to the black nickel part very well. I also thought about Elmers glue

but dismissed it for the same reason.

 

A clear 15 minute epoxy should work fine. Just try to mix enough to cover the entire coin without slopping over the first pass. You don't want to layer it. Use a toothpick to clear out air bubbles. If the coin is on a flat surface it will find level. If you don't overfill it will have a flat enough surface to lay level on side 2.

 

I suggest you practice on a couple of coins (geo or otherwise) before you hit the lips.

 

Good luck

[+nooks]

Clear nail polish?

 

Thanks, Joni

I thought of that, but I don't think it will stick to the black nickel part very well. I also thought about Elmers glue

but dismissed it for the same reason.

 

A clear 15 minute epoxy should work fine. Just try to mix enough to cover the entire coin without slopping over the first pass. You don't want to layer it. Use a toothpick to clear out air bubbles. If the coin is on a flat surface it will find level. If you don't overfill it will have a flat enough surface to lay level on side 2.

 

I suggest you practice on a couple of coins (geo or otherwise) before you hit the lips.

 

Good luck

 

Thanks, shop99er!

 

Thankfully the glitter is only on one side. I want them durable enough to travel and this idea sounds the best. Plus it will make them glossy.

Now what can I practice on? Hmm......

[+rusty_da_dog]

I have been very happy with the geocoins...until today... A cacher said they liked my coin, but could not afford it. So, I sent them a coin free of charge. I paid for shipping, everything. As soon as this person recieved it, it went right on ebay. It really makes me question why I would try to be nice and do something for somebody else.

--Redtailfalconer

People like that suck in my personal opinion, but then again as for geocoins I have only been collecting them a short time, but one thing about it if anyone sent me a free coin, I dang sure wouldn't drop it on Ebay. (So if anyone wants to send me on) J/k but seriously, if I sent someone a coin and found it on Ebay, I would be P**Sed OFF. I think I would be finding a way to let everyone know who the person was just so no one else would have to suffer through this crap.

Just my .02

Cya on the trails,

Rusty

[funkoptimus]

Selling enough to break even isnt a big deal to my opinion. Business 101-yes sure you are trying to make money. Simple concept. But shouldnt it be disclosed??

 

No. This is a hobby, not government budgeting of tax dollars.

 

I went into this hobby thinking $7-9 is what a coin costs and with maybe a small upcharge to be safe. But after doing the math I know money is being made unknown to newbies.

 

It's really nobody's business how much money is, or is not being made.

 

All that should matter to the newbie, or anyone else, is:

 

Do I think this coin is worth the price being charged?

 

If the answer to that is "yes" then purchase the coin. If the answer is "no", then shrug it off and move on. The philosophy of how the coin is made and distributed is the domain of the maker and distributor.

I agree and disagree. It is more complicated than that........... But I wont say anything else as I dont want to get anymore emails where I am being berated for asking too many questions or for being a bothersome newbie who doesnt know what they are talking about. To those who discussed this with me a in civil manner thank you and thank you for clarifying some questions I had. Thank you to the people that emailed me sharing their feelings in private. For those who felt to email me and get nasty well......you did the hobby a disservice and I wont go into any more details in this thread as it is not worth it just as it wasnt worth me replying to your emails.

[+BlueDeuce]

I have been very happy with the geocoins...until today... A cacher said they liked my coin, but could not afford it. So, I sent them a coin free of charge. I paid for shipping, everything. As soon as this person recieved it, it went right on ebay. It really makes me question why I would try to be nice and do something for somebody else.

--Redtailfalconer

People like that suck in my personal opinion, but then again as for geocoins I have only been collecting them a short time, but one thing about it if anyone sent me a free coin, I dang sure wouldn't drop it on Ebay. (So if anyone wants to send me on) J/k but seriously, if I sent someone a coin and found it on Ebay, I would be P**Sed OFF. I think I would be finding a way to let everyone know who the person was just so no one else would have to suffer through this crap.

Just my .02

Cya on the trails,

Rusty

 

As my 10 year just said, ppffftt, it's not my fault you gave it to them.

[+Nero]

Just a small addition to cost.

 

if payments are being received via paypal, they charge a fee of 30 cents per transaction, PLUS around 2-3% of amount being received.