Caches in Graveyards

[+Hi-5ers]

Are there any geocaching rules about whether or not caches are allowed to be hidden in graveyards?

 

Perhaps we are being more sensitive about this than other cachers, but it does not seem very appropriate to us for caches to be placed in graveyards. We are not talking about getting the odd number off an old gravestone (that could be another topic), but this is where the actual cache (micro or otherwise) is hidden in the graveyard itself.

 

Today, we tried to do a cache (it appears to have been muggled) that was meant to be a micro at the base of a tree right in the middle of a graveyard, in amongst the graves. We felt rather uneasy searching, and were puzzled why someone had hidden it there when there was a public footpath down the side of the graveyard where it could easily have been hidden.

 

We look forward to hearing views.

[+MartyBartfast]

This topic has been done to death (pun intended) in:-

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=122544

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

There is also a current Thread in the Hunt Area on Cemetery Caches.

 

I've used church & graveyards for information on several on my Nelson's County Caches. From talking to various vicars, church wardens and ladies doing the flowers I feel that non-churched cachers are perhaps overly sensitive to going into churches and graveyards. In general the Christian Communities to whom the church is their place of worship welcome visitors who take an interest in their church building and churchyard. Gravestones were placed to celebrate, show off, commemorate or to convey a message. There is nothing wrong with visiting and enjoying religious buildings you just have to conform to the expectations of the community to whom the site belongs; this is no different from most other sites where GeoCaches are found whether it be a Nature Reserve or a High Street micro.

 

Be respectful certainly, avoid the trite use of other people's lives, but don't be morbidly sensitive - after all in Medieval times churchyards were the sites of fairs, markets and "camping" - no not that sort, the sort that involves the use of an inflated pigs bladder and 200 drunken men.

[+Haggis Hunter]

This can be a heated topic that has strong feelings on both sides of the fence. I can fully understand why someone may not like a cache being in a graveyard, all I can honestly say, is not to do it if you disagree.

 

The most visited cache in Edinburgh (which is mine) is in a graveyard. Out of 200+ finds I can't recall anyone saying it was distasteful to have it in such a location. It did have a short period where there was concerns about damage, but I moved it to prevent it probably happening again.

 

The graveyard by the way is also a tourist attraction, and has had a film made in it, about one of it's occupants.

[+John Stead]

I see nothing wrong in caches in graveyards but draw the line at caches actually at the graves themselves. I would hate to upset anyone connected with the deceased if they found something which should not be there in a grave they were tending or for that matter someone messing about in the immediate vicinity of their grave. Besides who would you ask for permission?

Graveyards are IMHO places to be visited but treated with respect.

So I am quite happy with caches in trees within the graveyard or in walls round them (provided they are not dry stone walls or easily damaged!).

[+Johnmelad]

Not the type of cache I would want to do in the dark!

[+Bear and Ragged]

I see nothing wrong in caches in graveyards but draw the line at caches actually at the graves themselves. I would hate to upset anyone connected with the deceased if they found something which should not be there in a grave they were tending or for that matter someone messing about in the immediate vicinity of their grave. Besides who would you ask for permission?

Graveyards are IMHO places to be visited but treated with respect.

So I am quite happy with caches in trees within the graveyard or in walls round them (provided they are not dry stone walls or easily damaged!).

 

As Above!

 

G

[Lactodorum]

I see nothing wrong in caches in graveyards but draw the line at caches actually at the graves themselves. I would hate to upset anyone connected with the deceased if they found something which should not be there in a grave they were tending or for that matter someone messing about in the immediate vicinity of their grave. Besides who would you ask for permission?

Graveyards are IMHO places to be visited but treated with respect.

So I am quite happy with caches in trees within the graveyard or in walls round them (provided they are not dry stone walls or easily damaged!).

Exactly the system we use when reviewing new caches. Nicely put John.

[+The Forester]

Not the type of cache I would want to do in the dark!

 

That's exactly why it's inappropriate to put the physical cache of a puzzle or multi in a graveyard. At least, it's one of the reasons.

 

The issue of placing a physical cache under a gravestone is one of commonsense and having an ability to empathise with the feelings of fellow human beings. I think it's obvious to any reasonable person that such a location is inappropriate for the stashing of a physical cache.

 

Graveyards are a wonderful place to search and research for information. They are a veritable treasure trove of genealogical and historical information. That makes them ideal places for geocaching, but does not excuse anybody for hiding a cache under somebody's gravemarker.

 

A third problem is that some urban graveyards become magnets for some unsavoury nighttime activities, such as being a refuge for drunks, drugusers and other derelicts. It is unreasonable to expect people to handsearch leaflitter on the ground in the dark in an area which is known or can be expected to have discarded needles and broken glass, particularly in view of some of the dread diseases which infect and infest the junkie community.

 

GC.com has got quite enough rules -- probably far too many -- so I'm not suggesting some kind of ban on physicals in inappropriate places such as under gravestones. A little bit of commonsense goes much further than any amount of rulemaking can possibly hope to achieve. Just a little bit of thought could so easily prevent foreseeable problems.

[+bhodisatva]

I quite like them, one of my favourite ever finds was in a well known graveyard here in London (such a pity it's now been archived though). As with micros though i can see a need for placing caches within graveyards, what with "open" spaces being at a premium in inner city areas, often now the only place left to place a cache is within the grounds of a cemetery. But as has already been said above, thought and sensitivity does need to be shown, not only by the cache placer, but also by the cache hunter when attempting to place/find the cache though.

[+LollyBob]

Adding to the subject..........

What are your thoughts on caches in memory of someone?

We went to a cache that was in memory of someone and I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. The cache was also in a great location.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Adding to the subject..........

What are your thoughts on caches in memory of someone?

We went to a cache that was in memory of someone and I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. The cache was also in a great location.

I think it is a great idea, as long as the loved ones are happy.

 

It is funny you should mention this as there is an event being held in memory of Bill Hemphill from Team Ullium in less than two weeks time.

[+LollyBob]

Adding to the subject..........

What are your thoughts on caches in memory of someone?

We went to a cache that was in memory of someone and I thought it was a wonderful thing to do. The cache was also in a great location.

I think it is a great idea, as long as the loved ones are happy.

 

It is funny you should mention this as there is an event being held in memory of Bill Hemphill from Team Ullium in less than two weeks time.

 

Yes I have seen that. What a lovely way to celebrate someones life.

 

The cache I want to place is to celebrate my brothers life. He was tragically killed in a hangliding accident over 20 yrs ago. The place it happend is an awsome. It has wondeful views and you can see for miles and miles.

We were up there the other day doing a cache and the hangliders were there, I have never seen them fly since the accident. We ended up chatting and watching them fly for over 3 hrs. We also looked for a spot to place a cache, the hangliders know about it and they thought it was a great idea too.

 

I just dont want it to be thought as as a morbid cache because my brother loved life and he did more than most of us would ever dare to do in his life. If geocaching was around when he was, there would be some stinker 5/5 caches! LOL

 

Lolly

 

I hope lots walk in memory of Bill Hemphill. I am sure he will be there by your sides.

[+LollyBob]

oooops! Double posted sorry

Edited August 14, 2006 by LollyBob

[+t.a.folk]

There's a multi cache in Southampton that is in an old graveyard that has the cache container within the plinth of a grave stone .

Differing opinions from the finders.

We are just one of those who had difficulties finding the cache because we did not expect to find it where it is .

It is puzzling to us why the container is within the grave plinth as there are numerous bushy yew trees and shrubs around that it could have been in placed in instead .

[+The Forester]

The cache I want to place is to celebrate my brothers life.

 

Go fer it, Lolly. It's a brilliant thing to do. Celebrating someone's life is so much more positive than dwelling on their death. The location you have chosen is clearly somewhere that your bro loved and so it is entirely fitting that you should celebrate his life there.

 

Ask any flyer and they will all tell you the same thing about flying: when you are airborne and flying your aircraft you are more alive than at any time on the ground. It's not something which non-flyers always find easy to understand and it's fiendishly difficult to explain to ground-bound people. Bach's book J L Seagull comes close though. I'm not at all surprised that your bro's flying mates entirely approve and embrace what you're doing.

 

You've got an excellent attitude to handling the grim aspect of your bro's death and I'm sure that what you are doing would have his respect and admiration too. The location does not represent his death; it represents his life and his love of life.

 

You're doing something vastly better than commemorating a death. You're celebrating life itself by very sensitively celebrating a particularly special life in a particularly special way.

 

The people who're celebrating Ullium at the Schiehallion gig are doing the same thing. He'd approve of that too and would only bitch about the fact that he hasn't got a full glass of decent Malt in his hand and can't actively join in the blethering and gossiping and bickering at the 'Swally' afterwards. I always thought that Bill should have been a pilot and I once said that to him!

[+PopUpPirate]

Go for the cache, Lollybob!

 

Regards the thread, I was at first uneasy with the Saint/Sinner series, but once I started doing them they've all been tastefully placed and are a peaceful cache and dash. Great series so far!

 

On a multi I'd only use a clue from an old grave, or do as my brother did on his latest hide GCXMDG and use a feature of the church instead

Edited August 14, 2006 by PopUpPirate

[+Simply Paul]

Archived now, but a wonderful cache called 'Little Cemetery Safari' was in a disused but well-maintained area of churchyard. Anyone who did it will remember it, lol! I've sections of caches in graveyards, some of them physical, and I thought long about how, where and why they were placed. Generally I'm cautious about churchyard caches, but I've only seen a couple I was actually uncomfortable about. I can see arguments both ways, but suggest caches should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

[+Alibags]

I am perfectly comfortable with graveyard caches. In fact, before geocaching, old graveyards were one of my favourite places to explore. Memorials are placed for people to read and think on the person buried beneath. If nobody visits them then the memorial may as well have not been placed. The only time I would feel uncomfortable about caches IN graveyards is if there was a danger of disturbing the grave itself or if the thing was done disrespectfully.

 

One local cache to where I work, not one of my own, has a micro hidden in a graveyard as one of the stages. I sometimes look in to check up on it and whilst I am there, I tend to pull the weeds from the gravel on the grave too. Another cache has clues collected from the old grave of a very young child. Somebody I know met the next of kin when doing this cache and they were happy that the grave was being visited as part of a game. Yet another cache I know of, the setter has relatives themselves in the graveyard.

 

If you are going to get iffy about graveyard caches, what about caches places on or around ancient monuments? I have found physical caches placed on tumuli before... is it only a problem if the grave is a comparatively modern christian one?

[+The Forester]

is it only a problem if the grave is a comparatively modern christian one?

 

Not only Christian ones. Other religions and cultures also have some special religious beliefs about graves of ancestors.

 

I once nearly transgressed when creating a cache. I'd precalculated extremely accurately the Latitude of the Tropic of Cancer for that year and that part of the Geoid for a themed cache. I chose a suitable piece of access road and set off to walk a short distance to one side to find a suitable cluster of rocks in which to hide the cache on the Tropic. The location was in Asia, on the Arabian Peninsula. Plenty of rocks round there and an infinite number of hideyholes to choose from on that Latitude.

 

I noticed that there were lots of clusters of rocks, all higgledepiggledey, but not quite natural in their disposition. Fortunately, I realised in time that these were actually either Belushi or Uzd tribe burial markers. Their burial ritual involves a very swift burial, to be completed by the sunrise following the deceased person's death, and no inscriptions are made to identify who is buried where. The purpose of the very meagre little handful of stones is simply to prevent a previous burial from being dug up or otherwise disturbed when a new grave is dug. Thankfully I realised my potential blooper and moved over to the other side of the road to find somewhere more appropriate to hide my cache!

 

Somebody's headstone is definitely not an appropriate place for a physical cache!!

[+Torry]

We have an entire of caches in Indiana devoted to graveyards; especially the small, forgotten ones, called the Indiana Spirit Quest.

 

I helped a local reviewer write up some guidelines to aid and direct the hiders and seekers.

 

The key element was that no cache was to ever be located on or immediately near any grave, gravestone, crypt, mausoleum or in the flower arrangements. There have also been restrictions placed on caches hidden on memorial benches and statuary.

 

The series has proven to be very popular and has also served to put many unknown and forgotten graveyards back on the map. I have a Spirit Quest near Indianapolis and have been monitoring the encroachment of some local land developers. HAving so many people taking pictures of it has helped document its state.

 

For the most part the ISQ caches are micros or smalls placed on the edges of the grounds. Mine is a regular ammo box hidden in some nearby scrub.

[nobby.nobbs]

entirely through personal choice i've placed a cache at the boundary of a cemetary, i'm in two minds as to whether i approve of them or not as they could so easily cause offence and upset....