+nfa Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I woke up this morning with a burning desire to know how long an ammo-can will last in the wild. For the purposes of my question, please think about ammo-cans in places with harsh weather: rain, snow, ice, etc. ...I would assume that an ammo-can in an arid and warm environment would last almost forever. Thanks for any info you may have...my bet is that there are ammo cans in harsh environments that have been in place for 5+ years, but I'm interested to see what people have to say. Jamie Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I woke up this morning with a burning desire to know how long an ammo-can will last in the wild. Two words "Gubba Ment." As in, I bet the U.S. goverment has already spent MILLIONS of dollars to answer that exact question. With the freedom of information act, I'm sure all the info is available if you just dig in the right spot. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I don't know, I've had a few out for years in flood areas without trouble. I think there are two areas of concern. The first is rust. When we buy used cans, they typically have areas that are scraped up and are getting a little surface rust. A quick spray of rustoleum camo will fix that and get rid of the scary markings. The second area of concern is the rubber seal. If you occasionally hit the seal with some rubber protectant during maintenance visits, I don't think you'll have any problems with it. Therefore, with proper prep and maintenance, I think the can will outlive the owner. Quote Link to comment
+caderoux Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 The element most likely to get an ammo can is the muggle. Quote Link to comment
+reveritt Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 In my experience, they last until they are muggled. Anyone have any ammo boxes laying around that they could check for a milspec number? It might be useful to see what Uncle Sam expects an ammo box to be capable of. Quote Link to comment
+geognerd Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Ammo cans don't do too well when run over by a bulldozer. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 As I recall, forest fires will take one out, also. Barnacles can make them difficult to close correctly. Quote Link to comment
+wildearth2001 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 From my experience fires will destroy the contents and maybe the rubber seal but the can itself usually survives, then add a new logbook and seal and your good to go (a lot of caches I have visited, the owner leaves the burnt up crap in the cache for 'educational' reasons) Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) From my experience fires will destroy the contents and maybe the rubber seal but the can itself usually survives, then add a new logbook and seal and your good to go (a lot of caches I have visited, the owner leaves the burnt up crap in the cache for 'educational' reasons) Huh. I didn't know that you could change out the gasket. Where do you buy new ones? Edited March 29, 2006 by sbell111 Quote Link to comment
+caderoux Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I don't condone seal hunting. Quote Link to comment
+reveritt Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 From my experience fires will destroy the contents and maybe the rubber seal but the can itself usually survives, then add a new logbook and seal and your good to go (a lot of caches I have visited, the owner leaves the burnt up crap in the cache for 'educational' reasons) Huh. I didn't know that you could change out the gasket. Where do you buy new ones? You don't; you pry open your wallet and plunk down $5 for a new ammo box. Still hoping someone can find a mil spec number on an ammo box. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 From my experience fires will destroy the contents and maybe the rubber seal but the can itself usually survives, then add a new logbook and seal and your good to go (a lot of caches I have visited, the owner leaves the burnt up crap in the cache for 'educational' reasons) Huh. I didn't know that you could change out the gasket. Where do you buy new ones? You don't; you pry open your wallet and plunk down $5 for a new ammo box. Still hoping someone can find a mil spec number on an ammo box. That's what I thought, but Wildearth apparently has some experience in replacing the gasket, so more info is needed. Quote Link to comment
+nfa Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 a friend of mine recently "replaced" a dried out gasket by running a bead of silicone goop all the way around the lid, and then "pointing" the bead using a chopstick to even it up. He says it works perfectly, but only time will tell. Jamie Quote Link to comment
+fox-and-the-hound Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Do any cachers work in the automotive industry? It might be interesting to put a can in one of those booths where they test paints for cars to see how long it would last. You know, the ones with the bright lights, wind and such? Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 My oldest cached placed 4+ years ago in an ammo can looks exactly the way it did when I first put it out. minus 40 degree winters, 120 degree summers, wind - blowing sand, rain, hail, snow, ice - even a mudslide down the hill. Some muggles filled it with beer once - emptyed it, wiped it up and still fine. Quote Link to comment
+wandererrob Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I've come across one that survived a prescribed burn in a wooded area in NC. The contents didn't fare so well, but the can was just fine. I imagine, given their intended use, they might well hold up for years. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) I have some that have been out for 4+years in the rain, snow and heat of the summer. They are all in still great shape. I know of one that hidden along a stream inside an undercut cut in the bank. Its wet probably 50 to 70 percent of the time. Its been there since 2002 and is starting to experience some severe rusting, but at the moment it seals just fine. Note that it was placed with the original paint job, so who knows, maybe if the owner painted it with Rustoleum before placing it, it might have still been fine. Edited March 29, 2006 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
salmoned Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) Hawaii may have some of the worst conditions for ammo boxes. "Strangled Palm" had no additional paint job and lasted almost 3 1/2 years (and hundreds of finds) in a hot and humid location before the hinge rusted off. Sea-spray locations may be even worse. In some locations, 2 years can be optimistic without added protection. Edited March 29, 2006 by edchen Quote Link to comment
+hikergps Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Still hoping someone can find a mil spec number on an ammo box. Not trying to sound dumb but is the mil spec printed on the box? I have a virgin box that hasn't been painted over yet. Quote Link to comment
+alexrudd Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Here's what mine says: 200 CARTRIDGES 7.62 MM, NATO ● M80 CARTONS,++, M13 LC-02K208-021 with a few symbols mixed in for good luck. I'm assuming the LC- part is what you want? Quote Link to comment
+reveritt Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Still hoping someone can find a mil spec number on an ammo box. Not trying to sound dumb but is the mil spec printed on the box? I have a virgin box that hasn't been painted over yet. It might be; that's what I was hoping. Quote Link to comment
+reveritt Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 ... with a few symbols mixed in for good luck. I'm assuming the LC- part is what you want? I believe that is the contract number for the ammo. Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 [still hoping someone can find a mil spec number on an ammo box. I have not seen ammo cans listed under mil spec packaging. (Can't remember the latest. I seldom do mil spec packaging. MIL-B-132?) Quote Link to comment
+headybrew Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 [still hoping someone can find a mil spec number on an ammo box. I have not seen ammo cans listed under mil spec packaging. (Can't remember the latest. I seldom do mil spec packaging. MIL-B-132?) The OD (“olive drab”) metal container—the one that can work as a tool box as well as an ammunition box—has an entire team of engineers behind it that has designed, tested, redesigned, and retested it to meet the warfighter’s needs. Every container currently being fielded is designed to protect its contents for at least 20 years through the worst conditions possible. Thats an army logistics web page called Preserving Readiness Through Ammunition Packaging Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 This one has out for about 4.5 years, others around have gone 2-4 without problem. I agree with sbell111 as long as the seal doesn't give out, it will last for years until the steel eventally rusts away. Even longer if the can is cleaned and painted from time to time. Locally they tend to last till someone and and steals them or in a couple caches nearby rivers flood and they're washed away. Quote Link to comment
wandat24 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 In my experience, they last until they are muggled. Anyone have any ammo boxes laying around that they could check for a milspec number? It might be useful to see what Uncle Sam expects an ammo box to be capable of. hmmm what is the milspec number?? I have an old one (from 1954) with some numbers on it.... Gonna finish the rest of the thread.... you can e-mail me directly if you'd like therough my account.... Quote Link to comment
+NorthWes Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 You can see all the Federal Stock Numbers for ammo cans you'd ever want here: Bway Corporation's PDF listing of Ammo Cans made for US Army & others. Just be careful - you'll get into a real case of 'ammo can envy' when you see some of the big boys they make! Some of the tests listed subject cans to 72 continuous hours of salt spray under 'high pressure' to ensure the can doesn't leak or rust... I'll hunt at home tonight for the cache page from the Fairbanks area with photos showing a can recovered after the huge forest fires of 2005. Quote Link to comment
+TeamGuisinger Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I'm thinking a replacement for a gasket could be found at Lowes or Home Depot. Either in the hose and tubing section, or the weatherstripping section. I have also taken them out, wiped them heavily with Armor All exterior protectant, let them sit somewhere warm for a couple hours. Rewipe them, and reinstall, but opposite side as when you took it out. This will sometimes fix leaking seals. Quote Link to comment
+RoyalRed Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 An ammo can should last until a nuclear holecost or the melt down of the sun. Quote Link to comment
+Colorado Cacher Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Seal walks into the bar and bartender asks, "what will you have?" Umm, anything but a Canadian Club. Quote Link to comment
+reveritt Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 You can see all the Federal Stock Numbers for ammo cans you'd ever want here:... It's not stock numbers I want, but this information, which is also present: Bway’s Stronghold Boxes meet the following U.S. Department of Defense and other international requirements:ANSI ZI-4, ANSI ZI-9, ASTM B 117-97, Mil-Std 406, Mil-Std 1916, ISO 8402. No Mil Specs, but Mil standards, as well as ANSI standards. I think the most promising is probably the ASTM standard. I'll see what I can find. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
+headybrew Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 No Mil Specs, but Mil standards, as well as ANSI standards. I think the most promising is probably the ASTM standard. I'll see what I can find. Thanks! Didn't THIS ARTICLE basically answer the question about design standards though? Every container currently being fielded is designed to protect its contents for at least 20 years through the worst conditions possible. Quote Link to comment
+reveritt Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Yeah, that pretty well answers the question, I think. Gotta love them ammo cans! Quote Link to comment
+wildearth2001 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 From my experience fires will destroy the contents and maybe the rubber seal but the can itself usually survives, then add a new logbook and seal and your good to go (a lot of caches I have visited, the owner leaves the burnt up crap in the cache for 'educational' reasons) Huh. I didn't know that you could change out the gasket. Where do you buy new ones? You don't; you pry open your wallet and plunk down $5 for a new ammo box. Still hoping someone can find a mil spec number on an ammo box. That's what I thought, but Wildearth apparently has some experience in replacing the gasket, so more info is needed. Sorry, I should have worded that better. I dont have any personal experience in repairing cans, only in finding ones after the fire goes over. I have heard of a seal being replaced, though I dont know if they meant buying a new one or just covering the old one with silicone. Although I was just thinking that maybe a rubber bead used to seal windows or something like that might work if needed (ie to cheap to buy a new can) Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment
+NorthWes Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Good job on finding that article, headybrew! My favorite cache container up here in Alaska is the ammo can. Here's an ammo-can cache that was recovered after a forest fire... great story, great photos... and the ammo can preserved the original log despite being toasted. Visit this log by the Ladybug Kids for the Taiga Cascade cache , located northeast of Fairbanks, on the Chatanika River. Quote Link to comment
+La Perouse Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) This one has out for about 4.5 years, others around have gone 2-4 without problem. I agree with sbell111 as long as the seal doesn't give out, it will last for years until the steel eventally rusts away. Even longer if the can is cleaned and painted from time to time. Locally they tend to last till someone and and steals them or in a couple caches nearby rivers flood and they're washed away. Never ever thought I'd have an opportunity to answer this. In 1961 (yes, children, 1961) I opened an ammo box of .30 calibre ammunition to use in the Browning machine gun my vehicle was armed with. The ammunition was starting to "weep" and would not feed - Uncle Sam had made it way back in 1940. The box (and about 100 of its mates) was stored in a hut which was not totally waterproof. The cans looked fine. I had to destroy ("blow up") all this ammo plus sundry handgrenades and mortar bombs from the same era. The answer to the question is that mil spec ammo cans last a very long time. And so does military food - we were eating tinned rations that were over 10 years old... Edited March 31, 2006 by La Perouse Quote Link to comment
+ChileHead Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 As I recall, forest fires will take one out, also. Barnacles can make them difficult to close correctly. I came across one in Florida that had been in a fire. The can was in great shape. The plasticy items inside the cache were a bit reshapen. Quote Link to comment
+chuckwagon101 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Huh. I didn't know that you could change out the gasket. Where do you buy new ones? You can make a great gasket with auto gasket material in a tube. I use the kind for sealing oil pans and transmissions. Just clean the old gasket material off with a wire brush or scraper. Apply a "bead" of the gasket material and let it "set up" for 24 hours or so. Then the container can be closed and the rubber-like material makes a weatherproof bond. Chucwagon Quote Link to comment
+Tsmola Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I actually came across one a few weeks ago that was a little wet on the inside, it had been out there for about 3 years I believe. That's the only ammo can I've seen where the contents were damaged. I have seen some with some severe rust, but the contents were undamaged. Quote Link to comment
+hikergps Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 I actually came across one a few weeks ago that was a little wet on the inside, it had been out there for about 3 years I believe. That's the only ammo can I've seen where the contents were damaged. I have seen some with some severe rust, but the contents were undamaged. Was the can damaged or just wet inside? I have a can that I have to check on once in a while and dry out, dump out the dirt, etc. It happens in mine because of the way people handle the cache, not the container's fault. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 If someone finds one in a heavy rain and closes it back up, there will be quite the little ecosystem working in there. Quote Link to comment
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