My Very Own Monument

August 16, 2005

OK.....I had to try this myself. Behind my house the land rises to a hill and at the very top the granite ledge rises out of the ground. I had to put in my own Benchmark. I also had to do it the old fashioned way. By hand. By myself.

I ordered a custom Disk from Berntsen Int'l and tools from doitbest.com. In ordering the disk, I was careful to choose a center design that I do not think is being used by an official agency. Over a 10 day period, I took GPS readings of the location and averaged them.

This is a picture of the soon to be Monumented Ledge with some of the tools.

First I had to drill the hole. One inch diameter by 3-1/2 inches deep. Using only a 1-1/2 pound nailing hammer and lots of water, this took me about 30 minutes. I also went about 4 inches deep just because. I have no doubt that if I had had a three or seven pound hammer this would have been much quicker.

The hole:

Next, I had to chisel a depression to fit the disk flush. I used 1-1/4" and 3/4" chisels to do the rough work and a 3/8" chisel for the finish work. I wanted a good finish with no chips. I found the granite to be very easy to work with these new tools.

Finally, my disk arrived from Berntsen. Their quality was excellent and met their advertised specs.

Next, I was afraid to stamp this once in place for fear of screwing up my cement work. (I had no faith in myself.) So I pre-stamped the elevation by hand. (I wanted to add some authenticity to the job)

Finally, it was time to install it. I used the recommended cement sold by Berntsen and found it easy to work with but you have to move FAST. It does dry quickly.

A perfect fit if I do say so myself !

The completed Monument:

OK...now for the bottom lines: My DIRECT labor on this job was about 2 hours. Not bad for a beginner. The cost:

Disk: $27.00

Custom Stamping: 30.00

Cement: 6.70

Shipping: 10.56

1" Star Drill: 11.99

1-1/4" Chisel: 11.79

Shipping: 8.89

3/8" Chisel: 4.50

Total: $111.43

All other tools and items were owned and available.

Now I just need a Witness Post sign ! (I already have the post)

I had a lot of fun doing this and highly recommend it to everyone.

Here are the Co-ordinates: (And DO NOT give me a hard time.....I realize my hand-held GPS is +/- 3 feet)

"At the top of a hill in an open field, the only open ledge visible, a standard disk, stamped SNYDER 2005 HILL-GULLY FARM 480 FT. With a center point that is circled.

Located at about 43 degrees 52.851 N

070 degrees 46.219 W

Elevation 480 Feet"

Edited August 17, 2005 by Spoo

1.3k · August 16, 2005

Disk: $27.00
Custom Stamping: 30.00

Cement: 6.70

Shipping: 10.56

1" Star Drill: 11.99

1-1/4" Chisel: 11.79

Shipping: 8.89

3/8" Chisel: 4.50

Total: $111.43

Satisfaction: PRICELESS!

August 16, 2005

Spoo,

Too freakin' cool dude!

- Mitch -

4.1k · August 16, 2005

Spoo,

You did an excellent job, it looks professionally done.

John

August 16, 2005

Spoo -

That is a great story and great illustration. Very well done.

Of course, you've pried open Pandora's box. First, we became compulsive about finding benchmarks. Then, some of us developed a compulsion centered around reporting recoveries to the NGS. Now, you've gone and set a benchmark yourself, and it had nothing to do with earning your livelihood. You've set a hobbyist benchmark. You lead the community in amateur benchmarks set with 1.

I'm going over to the Bersten website right now and order two disks immediately. On second thought, Artman's probably already had that idea; better make it THREE. (Hope Me & Bucky doesn't read this thread) (Hope my wife doesn't read this thread).

Seriously, Spoo, two thumbs up!!

Will

Edited August 16, 2005 by seventhings

1.4k · August 17, 2005

I envy people who have benchmarks at their houses! That was a fun project, Spoo.

At least I now own a benchmark, even though I have no intention of mounting it in the ground anywhere:

http://www.wintertime.com/OH/GC/Disney/mine.jpg

Patty

2.1k · August 17, 2005

http://benchmark.gps-fun.com/

is a website devoted to people's private benchmarks...Dave Ulmer just placed his...I may be placing another order in the coming weeks if enough people express interest...

nfa-jamie

August 17, 2005

NFA:

A few weeks ago when I first became interested in a Benchmark of my own, I posted some some notes on the forums about gps-fun.

They informed me at that time that they had only made 50 marks, that all were gone, that they were waiting to see if there was any further interest in making more, and that I was now on their waiting list.

I have not heard anything further from them to date.

2.1k · August 17, 2005

gps-fun.com is me...I'll place an order tomorrow for another 25-50 if there is sufficient interest so that I'm not stuck with too many at the end...

send me an email saying that you would like one (or more) of the benchmarks, and I'll put together another order...I could have them by early September, for monumenting before snow flies.

jamie

August 17, 2005

NFA:

I thought the name Jamie was familiar! Shame on me! (how do I make an icon that has egg on its face?) I hope I am still on your list.

Edited August 17, 2005 by Spoo

1.3k · August 17, 2005

I'm going over to the Bersten website right now and order two disks immediately. On second thought, Artman's probably already had that idea; better make it THREE. (Hope Me & Bucky doesn't read this thread) (Hope my wife doesn't read this thread).

Now hold on just a darned second there, Will, he said, putting on his best outraged Jimmy Stewart voice. Just how, just how crazy do you think ....

Oh, he said, switching effortlessly to Emily Litella. Never mind.

Anyway, I don't have any exposed bedrock nearby, and I'm not sure how my homeowner's association would react to pouring a concrete monument near my townhouse. Of course, I do have that nice brick facade, where a custom benchmark might look something like this:

2.3k · August 17, 2005

Very cool Spoo, and nice job! I have one of the GPS-Fun BM's and am just waiting for the right place to put it....I managed to snag #13...hehe.

August 17, 2005

Good on you for what you did Spoo, and if you want to kick it up a notch, kc2ixe left a little clue in the NGS forum a couple months ago...

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/iessg/gringo/

that is if you feel like playing with it...

Jamie, I have been an advocate of your GPS Fun in the past, and I feel that if you build it, they will come. So Keep Marketing!

Rob

Edited August 17, 2005 by evenfall

August 17, 2005

Very nice monumenting Spoo!

I tried for one of the gps-fun marks, but sadly, the post office decided I wasn't unworthy and it got lost in the mail (no fault of gps-fun or anything, just bad luck). Since then I have ordered my own personal marker off bertlsen's site. Now I'm just waiting to own my own property to put it on

1.2k · August 17, 2005

Rob wrote:

Jamie, I have been an advocate of your GPS Fun in the past, and I feel that if you build it, they will come. So Keep Marketing!

Ditto, except I don't care for the "for fun" wording. Wish there was another way to let the world know it's not "real".

-Paul-

2.1k · August 17, 2005

Ditto, except I don't care for the "for fun" wording. Wish there was another way to let the world know it's not "real".

-Paul-

I don't get the "not real" idea...there are gazillions of benchmarks out there, placed by thousands of different people and organizations...the point of them all is to mark the location of a point...sometimes for boundary markers, sometimes for summit markers, sometimes for building projects that never happen, sometimes for marking historic landmarks, sometimes for use in navigation using a GPS...any surveyor coming across a gps-fun benchmark would know that its not the one he/she is looking for, so what harm could come of it?

At any rate...the important thing is, congratulations to Spoo for monumenting his own benchmark...I think it's both "real" and real fun!

nfa-jamie

Edited August 17, 2005 by NFA

4.4k · August 17, 2005

I too agree,we should have fun.

I asked for a couple myself.

I am working on a major project that some day may be in a data base somewhere other than my own.

There are ways to get your data included in surveys.

BLUE BOOK POLICY

CONTRIBUTION OF GEODETIC DATA

GPS pdf\

Some Surveyors will not even go off the Bench Marks that are already set.

So what harm is another or 2.

August 17, 2005

WinterTime, where did you get the Disney survey marker replica from?????? My wife would love that! The happier she is, the more time I get to go out benchmark hunting!

1.4k · August 17, 2005

I got the Disney survey mark off eBay. I've had a query running for months for survey marks, and it finally paid off with the one I wanted. (There have been lots of others for auction that I wasn't interested in.)

Patty

August 17, 2005

So it would be ok to recover this mark?

Should we bring refreshments?

August 17, 2005

deimos:

By all means you may recover this mark. I just do not know where you would log it.

As for refreshments: Beer will do nicely for me. And you better bring lots of raw steak. I have SEVEN dogs you'll have to get past.

Edited August 17, 2005 by Spoo

August 17, 2005

I just have the one Golden Retriever but he is as friendly as any seven normal dogs.

And lots of steak from the family stock.

August 18, 2005

** Noticing the safety glasses in the foreground of one picture **

Good on you, Spoo, for a job well done, and double good, for safety!

R_C

(Safety committee chairman at work )

August 18, 2005

Spoo Posted on Aug 17 2005, 12:53 PM
I have SEVEN dogs you'll have to get past.

deimos444 Posted on Aug 17 2005, 01:10 PM
I just have the one Golden Retriever but he is as friendly as any seven normal dogs.

Problem deimos........

I never said I had seven NORMAL dogs!

August 18, 2005

OK, I'll bite.

What kind of dogs do you have?

Are they on the pet thread?

August 19, 2005

Ditto, except I don't care for the "for fun" wording. Wish there was another way to let the world know it's not "real".

-Paul-

I don't get the "not real" idea...there are gazillions of benchmarks out there, placed by thousands of different people and organizations...the point of them all is to mark the location of a point...sometimes for boundary markers, sometimes for summit markers, sometimes for building projects that never happen, sometimes for marking historic landmarks, sometimes for use in navigation using a GPS...any surveyor coming across a gps-fun benchmark would know that its not the one he/she is looking for, so what harm could come of it?

At any rate...the important thing is, congratulations to Spoo for monumenting his own benchmark...I think it's both "real" and real fun!

nfa-jamie

Fwiw, it is real, real enough. NFA has a legit idea and he is ascribing data to the disc and keeping records for it. It isn't survey data of high quality but they do have GPS derived locations to a limited accuracy, and are not telling a fib. Their express purpose is about a game. They have as much validity as the station Spoo set for himself.

Any future surveyor will look up Spoo's station in any way they can, and they will likely find no registered data in any agency where certified data is found, and they will then simply not use it as it won't qualify for use. That does not take away from it being the monument that Spoo set for his Family Legacy on his land.

A Surveyor can easily look at these and see what they are and what they are not. I mean, Jamie has been up front. it is about GPS FUN, Not GPS Work Or GPS Accuracy... Y'know? This is a GPS GAME. No harm no foul. I mean, a Surveyor routinely sees a lot of survey markers. We are not confused by them, nor are we overly curious beyond the ones we need to work with right now. That right there disqualifies a lot of survey markers...

I think Jaime is going about this just fine. He makes no bones about what his markers are for, and what they are not. His honesty about that is what brings integrity to his game.

Rob

September 16, 2005

ArtMan:

I have been trying to find the disk that you showed a picture of above. Maybe I am an idiot, but I cannot find anything in the system that defines that disk.

(ART'S BENCH MARK)

Is it just a very clever computer-art done by you?

September 16, 2005

Spoo, to me it looks like photo shop, look close behind the "art" and "mark" text, you can still see faint left overs of the inscription.

And from the text above the pic, says it might look something like this, pretty good job though.

1.3k · September 16, 2005

to me it looks like photo shop

You got me!

-ArtMan-

1.6k · February 2, 2011

I wonder what happened to Spoo. He hasn't logged a find since 2006, and hasn't logged in to the site since last August. Strange for someone interested enough to set his own disk to then disappear. I know he traveled a lot for work, so maybe that is part of the reason.

February 13, 2011

That is awesome Spoo! Anybody know how he squeezed the bottom part of the marker together to get it in the hole?

BasicPoke

February 13, 2011

The hole is big enough for it to fit without being squeezed shut. You first fill the hole with cement and then place the mark. When the cement sets it bonds to the sides of the hole, with the split end of the mark ensuring that it can't be pulled out.

Also... Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Edited February 13, 2011 by Rotareneg

February 14, 2011

The hole is big enough for it to fit without being squeezed shut. You first fill the hole with cement and then place the mark. When the cement sets it bonds to the sides of the hole, with the split end of the mark ensuring that it can't be pulled out.

Also... Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Nice ... but that's not how they used to do it. Observe the following illustration from an early CGS publication:

Split%20shaft%20with%20wedge.jpg

Notice the wedge in the end of the split shaft. The whole thing was driven into a pre-drilled hole. When the wedge hit the bottom, it got driven up into the shaft, spreading the two sides and forming a very tight fit.

Obviously this would work in rock and in hardened concrete which would allow the hole to be drilled the right width and depth (and at the right location). Not so wet concrete. But wet concrete would also not provide a carefully predetermined location. So you couldn't use it for example if you were resetting a surface mark from the underground mark or from the reference marks.

Always nice to see how things were done in the "good old days". The picture is from Special Publication 76 (1922).

Edited February 14, 2011 by Papa-Bear-NYC

February 15, 2011

The hole is big enough for it to fit without being squeezed shut. You first fill the hole with cement and then place the mark. When the cement sets it bonds to the sides of the hole, with the split end of the mark ensuring that it can't be pulled out.

Also... Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Nice ... but that's not how they used to do it. Observe the following illustration from an early CGS publication:

Notice the wedge in the end of the split shaft. The whole thing was driven into a pre-drilled hole. When the wedge hit the bottom, it got driven up into the shaft, spreading the two sides and forming a very tight fit.

Obviously this would work in rock and in hardened concrete which would allow the hole to be drilled the right width and depth (and at the right location). Not so wet concrete. But wet concrete would also not provide a carefully predetermined location. So you couldn't use it for example if you were resetting a surface mark from the underground mark or from the reference marks.

Always nice to see how things were done in the "good old days". The picture is from Special Publication 76 (1922).

That makes perfect sense to me Papa Bear, but what about the two stand-offs under the bottom of the Disk? Wouldn't they leave a gap between the bottom of the Disk and the substrate?

February 15, 2011

That makes perfect sense to me Papa Bear, but what about the two stand-offs under the bottom of the Disk? Wouldn't they leave a gap between the bottom of the Disk and the substrate?

Don't believe that those tabs lasted into the 30's. Page 16 of 25 at the below link shows a nice diagram of a rock set. You are placing the disk stem into fresh cementing material of some sort. kayakbird

http://www.mdt.mt.gov/other/survey/external/survey/manual_guides_forms/bench_mark_reset_procedures.pdf

Edited February 15, 2011 by kayakbird

February 15, 2011

That makes perfect sense to me Papa Bear, but what about the two stand-offs under the bottom of the Disk? Wouldn't they leave a gap between the bottom of the Disk and the substrate?

Don't believe that those tabs lasted into the 30's. Page 16 of 25 at the below link shows a nice diagram of a rock set. You are placing the disk stem into fresh cementing material of some sort. kayakbird

http://www.mdt.mt.gov/other/survey/external/survey/manual_guides_forms/bench_mark_reset_procedures.pdf

Ah! It's all clear to me now! Thanks Kayakbird.

February 15, 2011

Those "tabs" were only on very early disks. My guess is that they were intended to help resist rotation of the disk. For disks set in bedrock, two grooves would have had to be chiseled out to allow the disk to set flush.

The wedge in the stem groove was also only used on early disks. This looks like an excellent idea, but I have never set one that way, so I can't comment on how well it worked.

GeorgeL

NGS

1.6k · February 15, 2011

Woodworkers sometimes use a wedged tenon in a mortise; same idea.

I'd be afraid I wouldn't have the dimensions right. Once you start spreading the wedge you are committed whether or not things fit properly.

If you could bell out the bottom of the hole a little it would give more leeway in how much the wedge was allowed to spread the shaft, and therefore make it certain the shaft would go all the way in. But then you are depending only on the cement rather than the mechanical fit to prevent motion.

March 31, 2016

Thought I'd bump this for those newer benchmarkers who might not have seen this...

My Very Own Monument

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