Is It A Good Virtual??

[+rusty_da_dog]

Ok, I have seen a lot of virtual caches some good, some not so hot. As the Charleston, Arkansas school district was the first school in the nation to voluntarily (and peacefully I might add) integrate back in 1954. I thought the new memorial in the parking lot of the school would be a great virtual cache.

 

I am having a HE77 of a time getting this cache approved. Am I missing something? I get all kinds of it doesn't meet the requirements, then after I reply and justify the requirements as I understand them, I get something about you can't have a cache in a school yard......How about in about a micro at a high school football field where you have to crawl under bleachers to find it, couldnt that be a little strange during school hours?????

 

Bottom line I am kinda hacked off that I think this is a perfectly good virtual.

 

Can anyone give me any comments? Here is a link to the listing.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...c2-9b710c89b717

If the link doesn't work try: GCPV9Z

Edited July 24, 2005 by rusty_da_dog

[+LadeBear68]

Your link doesn't work and good luck because you are about to be bombarded with nasty comments and your final result will be the same as it is now.

[+rusty_da_dog]

Oh I am sure I will get plenty of flack. At this point I rightly don't care. I have dealt with approvers before. Some are nice, some are ok, One thing about it most of the approvers I have known have first of all been around awhile. This profile for this approver was created not long back.......Now maybe that doesnt mean anything, but that being neither here nor there, I see no problem with the listing.

[+The Leprechauns]

From the listing guidelines for virtual caches:

 

Signs, memorials, tombstones, statues or historical markers are among the items that are generally too common to qualify as virtual caches.

 

Perhaps you should wait for the forthcoming replacement for virtual and locationless caches, where a spot like this ought to be able to be listed, just not as a geocache.

[+LadeBear68]

You can see your listing but when I click on it it says that I cannot view it until it has been approved.

[+rusty_da_dog]

From the listing guidelines for virtual caches:

 

Signs, memorials, tombstones, statues or historical markers are among the items that are generally too common to qualify as virtual caches.

 

Perhaps you should wait for the forthcoming replacement for virtual and locationless caches, where a spot like this ought to be able to be listed, just not as a geocache.

 

Of course the next line in the requirements says "Unusual landmarks or items that would be in a coffee table book are good examples."

[+LaPaglia]

From the listing guidelines for virtual caches:

 

Signs, memorials, tombstones, statues or historical markers are among the items that are generally too common to qualify as virtual caches.

 

Perhaps you should wait for the forthcoming replacement for virtual and locationless caches, where a spot like this ought to be able to be listed, just not as a geocache.

 

Of course the next line in the requirements says "Unusual landmarks or items that would be in a coffee table book are good examples."

forget the memorial issue. How about this little goodie of a giudeline.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

 

Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a clue or a logging method.

Caches placed on archaeological or historical sites. In most cases these areas are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans.

Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.

Caches near or on military installations.

Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports.

 

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain in notes to the reviewer section of the cache page. For example, if you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate it in the notes for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

 

 

You read the guidelines when you listed the cache. Or at least you said you read them. What part of the above guideline does not apply to your cache. I read the reviewer notes and you did not explain how your cache is an exception to the above guideline.

Edited July 24, 2005 by LaPaglia

[+rusty_da_dog]

From the listing guidelines for virtual caches:

 

Signs, memorials, tombstones, statues or historical markers are among the items that are generally too common to qualify as virtual caches.

 

Perhaps you should wait for the forthcoming replacement for virtual and locationless caches, where a spot like this ought to be able to be listed, just not as a geocache.

 

Of course the next line in the requirements says "Unusual landmarks or items that would be in a coffee table book are good examples."

forget the memorial issue. How about this little goodie of a giudeline.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

 

Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a clue or a logging method.

Caches placed on archaeological or historical sites. In most cases these areas are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans.

Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.

Caches near or on military installations.

Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports.

 

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain in notes to the reviewer section of the cache page. For example, if you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate it in the notes for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

 

 

You read the guidelines when you listed the cache. Or at least you said you read them. What part of the above guideline does not apply to your cache. I read the reviewer notes and you did not explain how your cache is an exception to the above guideline.

How about this hot shot............"Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports. "

 

I have not placed ANY container at this location. It is a VIRTUAL cache showing the efforts of a small town to Integrate peacefully when other schools in this state were calling out the National Guard to get black kids into school.......

 

I can assure you though, if it takes getting persmission from school officials to do that, I can handle that effective Aug 1st.........

[Tahosa and Sons]

No flak from me. I love Virtuals. Its a shame because I know of several monuments that are truely off the beaten path but they will be a part of an upcoming multi cache. And you better bring your jeep or boots to find these memorials that will give you the clues to the final location. My advice would be to hide the virtual within the stages of multi and really make them work for it.

 

And as Lapaglia said "elementary and secondary schools" I wonder why there is one here in CO that was approved and the cache is near a school. You can even park in the schools parking lot to get to the cache.

[+rusty_da_dog]

No flak from me. I love Virtuals. Its a shame because I know of several monuments that are truely off the beaten path but they will be a part of an upcoming multi cache. And you better bring your jeep or boots to find these memorials that will give you the clues to the final location. My advice would be to hide the virtual within the stages of multi and really make them work for it.

 

And as Lapaglia said "elementary and secondary schools" I wonder why there is one here in CO that was approved and the cache is near a school. You can even park in the schools parking lot to get to the cache.

Yep there are SEVERAL micro caches around Arkansas and Oklahoma that are hidden on school property......I would think as I said a cache container would be discouraged but I would think a virtual would be fine........

[+The Leprechauns]

The school guideline was added in February 2005, in response to the volume of problem caches near schools. Existing caches hidden prior to that date are grandfathered. Caches hidden since then may have escaped attention if there was nothing on the cache page to suggest it was near a school, and/or if the online maps were outdated.

 

It is perhaps more useful to focus on the virtual cache listing guidelines rather than the physical cache listing guidelines, in any event.

[+rusty_da_dog]

The school guideline was added in February 2005, in response to the volume of problem caches near schools. Existing caches hidden prior to that date are grandfathered. Caches hidden since then may have escaped attention if there was nothing on the cache page to suggest it was near a school, and/or if the online maps were outdated.

 

It is perhaps more useful to focus on the virtual cache listing guidelines rather than the physical cache listing guidelines, in any event.

I disagree, I think it is very important. If the guideline was put in place in Feb of '05 I still know of physical caches that are placed on school property. There is plenty on the cache pages stating they are on school property. As I said I would think a virtual would be better than a physical cache on school property due to the fact of suspicious activities around schools combined with the drugs that are an ever present threat to our kids in schools. A virtual cache would be alot more suitable at a school than a physical cache.

 

Also if as I said permission is an issue, I can handle that here in a couple of weeks.

[+rjb43nh]

rusty_da_dog: I'm afraid you are doing exactly what the OPs in the “Need Input Of The "community" About A Virtual” and “Unapproved Cache(s), Would like a consensus and some opinions” threads did, and this will end exactly the same way. In both these other discussions the OPs had come up with an idea for a cache that they thought was great but the reviewers said didn’t meet the guidelines. Instead of accepting that decision, or trying to modify the cache to meet the guidelines, the OPs traded several e-mails with the reviewer trying to “prove” their caches were an exception to the rules.

 

When that failed, they decided to start a thread because they felt that other cachers would also think this was a great idea for a cache and back them up. However, what they got was an obvious overwhelming response backing the reviewer. I suggest you read those threads before you waste any more time and emotions on what will turn out to be a lost cause.

[+Wacka]

I talked to a reviewer two weeks ago, and he said that there have only been about 65 virtuals approved WORLDWIDE since 1/1

Edited July 24, 2005 by Wacka

[+deimos444]

1. Buy a rabbits foot.

2. Find a four leaf clover.

3. Find out who the reviewers are and give one or more of them a substantial bribe.

and:

4. Go out with your buddies and get wasted because:

5. You ain't gonna get no stinkin virtuals.

[+LaPaglia]

No flak from me. I love Virtuals. Its a shame because I know of several monuments that are truely off the beaten path but they will be a part of an upcoming multi cache. And you better bring your jeep or boots to find these memorials that will give you the clues to the final location. My advice would be to hide the virtual within the stages of multi and really make them work for it.

 

And as Lapaglia said "elementary and secondary schools" I wonder why there is one here in CO that was approved and the cache is near a school. You can even park in the schools parking lot to get to the cache.

Easy, it was approved before the new guidelines went on line and is therefore grandfathered. Come on Tahosa, you can do better than that.

[+LaPaglia]

The school guideline was added in February 2005, in response to the volume of problem caches near schools.  Existing caches hidden prior to that date are grandfathered.  Caches hidden since then may have escaped attention if there was nothing on the cache page to suggest it was near a school, and/or if the online maps were outdated. 

 

It is perhaps more useful to focus on the virtual cache listing guidelines rather than the physical cache listing guidelines, in any event.

I disagree, I think it is very important. If the guideline was put in place in Feb of '05 I still know of physical caches that are placed on school property. There is plenty on the cache pages stating they are on school property. As I said I would think a virtual would be better than a physical cache on school property due to the fact of suspicious activities around schools combined with the drugs that are an ever present threat to our kids in schools. A virtual cache would be alot more suitable at a school than a physical cache.

 

Also if as I said permission is an issue, I can handle that here in a couple of weeks.

Its still a crappy virt! (personal opinion)

 

 

Why is it that I feel that you will accept no answer that does not agree with yours. Years ago we had a fellow like that around here.

 

"I want a Pony!"

Edited July 24, 2005 by LaPaglia

[+rusty_da_dog]

rusty_da_dog: I'm afraid you are doing exactly what the OPs in the “Need Input Of The "community" About A Virtual” and “Unapproved Cache(s), Would like a consensus and some opinions” threads did, and this will end exactly the same way. In both these other discussions the OPs had come up with an idea for a cache that they thought was great but the reviewers said didn’t meet the guidelines. Instead of accepting that decision, or trying to modify the cache to meet the guidelines, the OPs traded several e-mails with the reviewer trying to “prove” their caches were an exception to the rules.

 

When that failed, they decided to start a thread because they felt that other cachers would also think this was a great idea for a cache and back them up. However, what they got was an obvious overwhelming response backing the reviewer. I suggest you read those threads before you waste any more time and emotions on what will turn out to be a lost cause.

Nah see that is turning into being part of it. People can blast me all they want. Its all in fun now. I know the reviewers think they are Gods, so you know you can't argue or plead your case with them. So life goes on.......

[+rusty_da_dog]

The school guideline was added in February 2005, in response to the volume of problem caches near schools.  Existing caches hidden prior to that date are grandfathered.  Caches hidden since then may have escaped attention if there was nothing on the cache page to suggest it was near a school, and/or if the online maps were outdated. 

 

It is perhaps more useful to focus on the virtual cache listing guidelines rather than the physical cache listing guidelines, in any event.

I disagree, I think it is very important. If the guideline was put in place in Feb of '05 I still know of physical caches that are placed on school property. There is plenty on the cache pages stating they are on school property. As I said I would think a virtual would be better than a physical cache on school property due to the fact of suspicious activities around schools combined with the drugs that are an ever present threat to our kids in schools. A virtual cache would be alot more suitable at a school than a physical cache.

 

Also if as I said permission is an issue, I can handle that here in a couple of weeks.

Its still a crappy virt! (personal opinion)

 

 

Why is it that I feel that you will accept no answer that does not agree with yours. Years ago we had a fellow like that around here.

 

"I want a Pony!"

and you know what they say personal opinions are like *******'s everyone has one eh.........

[+rusty_da_dog]

Oh man, I am sorry LaPaglia, you have got to be smarter than me and know what constitutes a good vs. crap virtual cache, I mean you have found 8 virtuals, I bet all of them were AWESOME.........oh not to mention your favorite movie is Heidi after all.......good God......

[+LaPaglia]

Oh man, I am sorry LaPaglia, you have got to be smarter than me and know what constitutes a good vs. crap virtual cache, I mean you have found 8 virtuals, I bet all of them were AWESOME.........oh not to mention your favorite movie is Heidi after all.......good God......

Do ya think I should tell him what qualifys me to know a good virt from a bad one.

[+rusty_da_dog]

Oh man, I am sorry LaPaglia, you have got to be smarter than me and know what constitutes a good vs. crap virtual cache, I mean you have found 8 virtuals, I bet all of them were AWESOME.........oh not to mention your favorite movie is Heidi after all.......good God......

Do ya think I should tell him what qualifys me to know a good virt from a bad one.

enlighten me please........If you dont need everyone knowing just message me

[+Team Perks]

Setting aside the concerns about having a cache (physical or virtual) close to a school, I still don't see why you couldn't use the historical marker as the starting point for a multi/offset cache.

[+RoadRunner]

Rusty_da_dog,

 

At this moment I would highly that you settle down and realize what is going on. You have been attacking reviewers as well as the person who is in charge of the reviewers. Nothing about that will change the guidlelines or get your virtual published.

 

When you think about it, elementary and middle schools are not good places to put a cache. It really doesn't matter what type. It will not be published.

 

Thanks

RoadRunner

Cache Reviewer

[+LaPaglia]

Setting aside the concerns about having a cache (physical or virtual) close to a school, I still don't see why you couldn't use the historical marker as the starting point for a multi/offset cache.

For the same reason. The problem is having people wander close to and around school property causing school officials to call the police. We just dont want to take the chance they will.

[+LaPaglia]

Rusty_da_dog,

 

At this moment I would highly that you settle down and realize what is going on. You have been attacking reviewers as well as the person who is in charge of the reviewers. Nothing about that will change the guidlelines or get your virtual published.

 

When you think about it, elementary and middle schools are not good places to put a cache. It really doesn't matter what type. It will not be published.

 

Thanks

RoadRunner

Cache Reviewer

Thank you Roadrunner.

 

Ill spell it out for him.

 

I am a volunteer reviewer for Groundspeak. I review the state of Colorado. I used to also do the states of NV, NM, and AZ. I have approve more virts then he has virts found. Counts are not what matter. What matters is the quality of the cache.

[+rusty_da_dog]

Well, let me just put an end to this NOW.

If it is such a bad thing for caches (physical or virtual to be placed on school property can someone tell me why these particular caches were APPROVED by the approvers when my cache is not being approved. If someone can tell me why these caches were approved and/or why they are STILL in existence I will drop this, lock the thread and be done with it.

 

GCHGA4 Located at the Clarksville football field on the campus of

> Clarksville High School.

>

> GCMG6G Located on the campus of Ozark High School, even with permission it

> seems it would be weird to be hunting it at school time.

>

> GCMR4W It plainly states in the description that it is located on the

> property of Southside High School

>

> GCJEB1 Located at the Roland football field on the campus of Roland

> Oklahoma.

>

> Now as mentioned the above caches are all on school property, they are all

> cache containers.....

> With the reviewer's comment earlier of: "mainly because it is in a school yard,

 

so can someone please tell me the answer to why these physical caches are allowed, even with the rule of no caches on school grounds??????? Should these caches not be archived if we are so worried about adults running around on school property?

 

Also while I am on the punching block, why is it that only certain people have to abide by the .1 mile rule?????

 

If someone could answer at the very least the first of my two questions. I will lock this down, and wash my hands of it.

[+Team Perks]

Setting aside the concerns about having a cache (physical or virtual) close to a school, I still don't see why you couldn't use the historical marker as the starting point for a multi/offset cache.

For the same reason. The problem is having people wander close to and around school property causing school officials to call the police. We just dont want to take the chance they will.

LaPaglia, I agree with you completely. What I meant was that IF the concerns about being so close to a school didn't come into play (which they obviously DO), then it STILL wouldn't be meet the criteria for hiding a virtual.

 

The OP has argued that this spot is historically significant and therefore meets the "WOW factor" requirements. I'm not sure I buy that, but even if I did...he still hasn't addressed why the area could not support a physical cache as a final stage for a multi.

[+rusty_da_dog]

Rusty_da_dog,

 

At this moment I would highly that you settle down and realize what is going on.  You have been attacking reviewers as well as the person who is in charge of the reviewers.  Nothing about that will change the guidlelines or get your virtual published.

 

When you think about it, elementary and middle schools are not good places to put a cache.  It really doesn't matter what type.  It will not be published.

 

Thanks

RoadRunner

Cache Reviewer

Thank you Roadrunner.

 

Ill spell it out for him.

 

I am a volunteer reviewer for Groundspeak. I review the state of Colorado. I used to also do the states of NV, NM, and AZ. I have approve more virts then he has virts found. Counts are not what matter. What matters is the quality of the cache.

So, maybe I need to check and see how many LAME virtuals are in those states, eh.......

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, if someone will answer my question, I am willing to call a truce and let it die.

[+Team Perks]

If it is such a bad thing for caches (physical or virtual to be placed on school property can someone tell me why these particular caches were APPROVED by the approvers when my cache is not being approved. If someone can tell me why these caches were approved and/or why they are STILL in existence I will drop this, lock the thread and be done with it.

Without knowing the whole story re: these caches, it's hard to say if there is some legitimate reason as to why the previous caches were approved.

 

That said...The approval of those caches bears nothing in whether YOURS is approvable. Remember this statement from the cache placement guidelines?

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache.

That's all the justification you need.

[+rusty_da_dog]

Setting aside the concerns about having a cache (physical or virtual) close to a school, I still don't see why you couldn't use the historical marker as the starting point for a multi/offset cache.

For the same reason. The problem is having people wander close to and around school property causing school officials to call the police. We just dont want to take the chance they will.

LaPaglia, I agree with you completely. What I meant was that IF the concerns about being so close to a school didn't come into play (which they obviously DO), then it STILL wouldn't be meet the criteria for hiding a virtual.

 

The OP has argued that this spot is historically significant and therefore meets the "WOW factor" requirements. I'm not sure I buy that, but even if I did...he still hasn't addressed why the area could not support a physical cache as a final stage for a multi.

Well, first of all obviously there is no place for a physical cache of anykind at this location since it is on the property of the Charleston School District.

 

Second, if you are unsure of the importance of this particular area, how many people have heard of Central High School in Little Rock Arkansas where Gov. Fabus had to call out the National Guard when that school tried to integrate. Charleston Arkansas integrated with no National Guard, not protest, it was totally peaceful. I think there are a LOT of people who would be VERY interested in the fact that tiny Charleston, Arkansas a town with a population today of right at 3K was the first school in the Old Confederacy to allow blacks to attend school with whites.

If anyone thinks that is not interesting, then the person thinking that is obviously either an idiot, or does not care about civil rights.

[+rusty_da_dog]

If it is such a bad thing for caches (physical or virtual to be placed on school property can someone tell me why these particular caches were APPROVED by the approvers when my cache is not being approved. If someone can tell me why these caches were approved and/or why they are STILL in existence I will drop this, lock the thread and be done with it.

Without knowing the whole story re: these caches, it's hard to say if there is some legitimate reason as to why the previous caches were approved.

 

That said...The approval of those caches bears nothing in whether YOURS is approvable. Remember this statement from the cache placement guidelines?

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache.

That's all the justification you need.

That may be true, BUT my question is why were they approved in the first place? If they SHOULDN'T have been approved which according to geocaching guidelines they shouldnt have been. Why were they? Why are they still active? and why have they not been archived?

[+BlueDeuce]

Well, let me just put an end to this NOW.

That would mean dealing with the approvers off-line

 

or locking the thread.

[+RoadRunner]

Setting aside the concerns about having a cache (physical or virtual) close to a school, I still don't see why you couldn't use the historical marker as the starting point for a multi/offset cache.

For the same reason. The problem is having people wander close to and around school property causing school officials to call the police. We just dont want to take the chance they will.

LaPaglia, I agree with you completely. What I meant was that IF the concerns about being so close to a school didn't come into play (which they obviously DO), then it STILL wouldn't be meet the criteria for hiding a virtual.

 

The OP has argued that this spot is historically significant and therefore meets the "WOW factor" requirements. I'm not sure I buy that, but even if I did...he still hasn't addressed why the area could not support a physical cache as a final stage for a multi.

Well, first of all obviously there is no place for a physical cache of anykind at this location since it is on the property of the Charleston School District.

 

Second, if you are unsure of the importance of this particular area, how many people have heard of Central High School in Little Rock Arkansas where Gov. Fabus had to call out the National Guard when that school tried to integrate. Charleston Arkansas integrated with no National Guard, not protest, it was totally peaceful. I think there are a LOT of people who would be VERY interested in the fact that tiny Charleston, Arkansas a town with a population today of right at 3K was the first school in the Old Confederacy to allow blacks to attend school with whites.

If anyone thinks that is not interesting, then the person thinking that is obviously either an idiot, or does not care about civil rights.

Rusty_da_dog

 

The details of why this location is important is not relevant. The relevant issue is that reviewers will no longer publish caches that will bring strangers onto school property.

 

Is that to the point enough?

 

RR

 

Edit: spelling

Edited July 24, 2005 by RoadRunner

[+LaPaglia]

Well, let me just put an end to this NOW.

If it is such a bad thing for caches (physical or virtual to be placed on school property can someone tell me why these particular caches were APPROVED by the approvers when my cache is not being approved. If someone can tell me why these caches were approved and/or why they are STILL in existence I will drop this, lock the thread and be done with it.

 

GCHGA4 Located at the Clarksville football field on the campus of

> Clarksville High School.

>

> GCMG6G Located on the campus of Ozark High School, even with permission it

> seems it would be weird to be hunting it at school time.

>

> GCMR4W It plainly states in the description that it is located on the

> property of Southside High School

>

> GCJEB1 Located at the Roland football field on the campus of Roland

> Oklahoma.

>

> Now as mentioned the above caches are all on school property, they are all

> cache containers.....

> With the reviewer's comment earlier of: "mainly because it is in a school yard,

 

so can someone please tell me the answer to why these physical caches are allowed, even with the rule of no caches on school grounds??????? Should these caches not be archived if we are so worried about adults running around on school property?

 

Also while I am on the punching block, why is it that only certain people have to abide by the .1 mile rule?????

 

If someone could answer at the very least the first of my two questions. I will lock this down, and wash my hands of it.

first cache doesn't indicate its on school property and the one map I looked at didn't show it so its possible the reviewer didn't know. I'm not that reviewer so I can say.

 

Second cache has this tid bit on it. "Now a few facts about the cache. This cache was placed here with permission from the Athletic Director Bill Gossage." Permission was granted so the school is ok with it.

 

I'M not even going to look at the other 2 because I am not the reviewer for those caches and because the guidelines state:

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache. If a cache has been posted and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the cache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated the cache is likely to be “grandfathered” and allowed to stand as is.

 

If you feel they are place incorrectly please follow the guidelines and report the caches. Posting them here is not reporting them.

[+Team Perks]

Well, first of all obviously there is no place for a physical cache of anykind at this location since it is on the property of the Charleston School District.

The ENTIRE area is owned by the school district? So you couldn't make a multi-cache starting at the virtual and leading you to a physical cache a quarter or a third of a mile away? I find that hard to believe.

 

Prior to considering a virtual cache, you must have given consideration to the question “why couldn’t a microcache or multi-cache be placed there?” Physical caches have priority, so please consider adding a micro or making the location a step in an offset or multi-stage cache with the physical cache placed in an area that is appropriate.

(Bold added for emphasis)

 

Either way, considering the school issue, it's a moot point.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Perhaps, if you paid attention to ongoing threads, you might have realized that afew, if any, Virtual Caches are being approved. A major reshuffling seems to be in progress.

And, of course, insulting the reviewers is always a great way to get a cache approved... Tact is always useful.

That being said, I have logged forty-one Virtual Caches. The new standard seems to be the "Wow" factor. How many would I say qalified under the "Wow" factor? Perhaps four or five. How many were a complete waste of my time? Probably twenty. The rest were "Thanks for showing me this!"

It is up to TPTB to set their standards. A period of transition is probably not the best time to submit such a cache for approval.

Chill out, dude.

[+LaPaglia]

Well, first of all obviously there is no place for a physical cache of anykind at this location since it is on the property of the Charleston School District.

The ENTIRE area is owned by the school district? So you couldn't make a multi-cache starting at the virtual and leading you to a physical cache a quarter or a third of a mile away? I find that hard to believe.

 

Prior to considering a virtual cache, you must have given consideration to the question “why couldn’t a microcache or multi-cache be placed there?” Physical caches have priority, so please consider adding a micro or making the location a step in an offset or multi-stage cache with the physical cache placed in an area that is appropriate.

(Bold added for emphasis)

 

Either way, considering the school issue, it's a moot point.

I knew I liked you.

[+Team Perks]

I knew I liked you.

They don't call me GoldenStateAdmin for nothing...

[+The Leprechauns]

GCHGA4 Located at the Clarksville football field on the campus of Clarksville High School.

The cache was hidden in January 2004. The school guideline became effective in February 2005.

 

GCMG6G Located on the campus of Ozark High School, even with permission it seems it would be weird to be hunting it at school time.

 

The cache was hidden in January 2005. The school guideline became effective in February 2005.

 

GCMR4W It plainly states in the description that it is located on the property of Southside High School

 

The cache was hidden on February 10, 2005, just four days before the change in the guidelines became effective.

 

GCJEB1 Located at the Roland football field on the campus of Roland Oklahoma.

 

The cache was hidden in May 2004. The school guideline became effective in February 2005.

 

I tried in my earlier post to point out that grandfathered physical caches at schools won't help you in your argument for your virtual cache. Let me reinforce that point with one final quote from the listing guidelines:

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache. If a cache has been posted and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the cache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated the cache is likely to be “grandfathered” and allowed to stand as is.

 

If you want to have a discussion about grandfathered physical caches on school property, then open a thread about them. I thought this thread was about your virtual cache submission.

[+LadeBear68]

"Perhaps, if you paid attention to ongoing threads, you might have realized that afew, if any, Virtual Caches are being approved. A major reshuffling seems to be in progress" - The virtuals were different and that is the answer for everything and has been said numerous times but doesn't really answer any questions. No one is talking about what that reshuffling is, just that it is coming some time "soon".

 

"Tact is always useful" equates to sucking up.

 

"That being said, I have logged forty-one Virtual Caches. The new standard seems to be the "Wow" factor. How many would I say qalified under the "Wow" factor? Perhaps four or five. How many were a complete waste of my time? Probably twenty. The rest were "Thanks for showing me this!""

 

This is the problem, it is subjective. You may find one virtual a wow virtual and I may think it is lame. So how can that be a guideline?

[+LaPaglia]

GCHGA4 Located at the Clarksville football field on the campus of Clarksville High School.

The cache was hidden in January 2004. The school guideline became effective in February 2005.

 

GCMG6G Located on the campus of Ozark High School, even with permission it seems it would be weird to be hunting it at school time.

 

The cache was hidden in January 2005. The school guideline became effective in February 2005.

 

GCMR4W It plainly states in the description that it is located on the property of Southside High School

 

The cache was hidden on February 10, 2005, just four days before the change in the guidelines became effective.

 

GCJEB1 Located at the Roland football field on the campus of Roland Oklahoma.

 

The cache was hidden in May 2004. The school guideline became effective in February 2005.

 

I tried in my earlier post to point out that grandfathered physical caches at schools won't help you in your argument for your virtual cache. Let me reinforce that point with one final quote from the listing guidelines:

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache. If a cache has been posted and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the cache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated the cache is likely to be “grandfathered” and allowed to stand as is.

 

If you want to have a discussion about grandfathered physical caches on school property, then open a thread about them. I thought this thread was about your virtual cache submission.

I love when Lep takes a better look than I did and comes up with even better answers.

 

nicely done!

[+Team Perks]

Rather than drag on the discussion about why this virtual can't be approved (I don't think that's in question at this point!)...here's what I would suggest to have a cache highlighting this point of interest.

 

Find a nice, non-dangerous spot in the general vicinity of the school. For example, maybe there's a nice park a third of a mile away. Hide a physical cache there. In the cache description, write as much as you want about this school and its place in the history of school integration. Maybe include some other links to other web sites with additional information. If the approvers don't object, maybe you could even make note of how to get to the school if anybody wanted to actually see the place without requiring them to go there and get out of their cars and snoop around (I'm not sure what the approvers' thoughts would be on that, but I suppose that driving by a school wouldn't be considered dangerous or threatening behavior).

 

Thus, you still have the opportunity to showcase this point of interest without sending cachers to lurk around the school looking like pedophiles. Is it exactly what you wanted? No, but all things considered it's the safer alternative, and one that you'll have a much better shot at getting approved.

[+LadeBear68]

Offtopic: Why do you think the school would put a memorial on school property where they would have to know that people would stop to read or look at the memorial?

[+LaPaglia]

Offtopic: Why do you think the school would put a memorial on school property where they would have to know that people would stop to read or look at the memorial?

While probably true, it does not mean that we have to be the ones to send them there. There is also no proof that those that placed the monument intended it for anyone but the school children.

 

In CO. trespassing on school grounds is a jail-able offense. Interestingly enough you have to go on school grounds to get permission to be on school grounds. So if stopped with out the proper pass you had better be able to prove you are on a direct route to the Deans office for a pass. Otherwise just looking at the flag pole can get you arrested.

With a catch 22 like that its not worth it to the sport to push our luck on issues like this.

[+carleenp]

Second, if you are unsure of the importance of this particular area, how many people have heard of Central High School in Little Rock Arkansas where Gov. Fabus had to call out the National Guard when that school tried to integrate. Charleston Arkansas integrated with no National Guard, not protest, it was totally peaceful. I think there are a LOT of people who would be VERY interested in the fact that tiny Charleston, Arkansas a town with a population today of right at 3K was the first school in the Old Confederacy to allow blacks to attend school with whites.

If anyone thinks that is not interesting, then the person thinking that is obviously either an idiot, or does not care about civil rights.

Hmmmm, so I guess if I say that I don't really care for yet another memorial virt in my pocket query that I will have to filter out that I am an idiot biggot? Even if I could find and go to the place and be interested without getting a smilie for it? Interesting..... And rather insulting. But whatever....

 

The site has said a new game will come out soon to deal with these things. I say wait for that or make an off-set as was suggested earlier. Perhaps also have a good beer (or other drink of choice) and calm down a bit too. Such anguish can't be good for people.

 

Running from the virt angst now. What was I thinking looking at a virt thread!!!!

[uperdooper]

Edited July 25, 2005 by uperdooper

[+rusty_da_dog]

Well, first of all obviously there is no place for a physical cache of anykind at this location since it is on the property of the Charleston School District.

The ENTIRE area is owned by the school district?  So you couldn't make a multi-cache starting at the virtual and leading you to a physical cache a quarter or a third of a mile away?  I find that hard to believe.

 

Well, OBVIOUSLY you couldn't make this part of a multi cache since it is on school property.......HELLO!!!!!

[+Team Cotati]

Ok, I have seen a lot of virtual caches some good, some not so hot. As the Charleston, Arkansas school district was the first school in the nation to voluntarily (and peacefully I might add) integrate back in 1954. I thought the new memorial in the parking lot of the school would be a great virtual cache.

 

I am having a HE77 of a time getting this cache approved. Am I missing something? I get all kinds of it doesn't meet the requirements, then after I reply and justify the requirements as I understand them, I get something about you can't have a cache in a school yard......How about in about a micro at a high school football field where you have to crawl under bleachers to find it, couldnt that be a little strange during school hours?????

 

Bottom line I am kinda hacked off that I think this is a perfectly good virtual.

 

Can anyone give me any comments? Here is a link to the listing.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...c2-9b710c89b717

If the link doesn't work try: GCPV9Z

I agree that this would make a wonderful virtual. Hopefully the forthcoming 'new' virtual creation thingy will be available before too much longer. I think that this ought to be one of the first approved in the new system. Hopefully that will happen. Until then, here is some friendly advice, don't waste your time bringing this up in these forums, unless you really really enjoy making certain people's day.

Edited July 25, 2005 by Team Cotati

[+LaPaglia]

Well, first of all obviously there is no place for a physical cache of anykind at this location since it is on the property of the Charleston School District.

The ENTIRE area is owned by the school district?  So you couldn't make a multi-cache starting at the virtual and leading you to a physical cache a quarter or a third of a mile away?  I find that hard to believe.

 

Well, OBVIOUSLY you couldn't make this part of a multi cache since it is on school property.......HELLO!!!!!

Being rude will only get you in trouble with the forum mods. Be nice to the lady. There is no reason to act like someone who needs a lesson in manners.