Hiding My First Cache

[Lost in it all...]

I have SEVERAL questions about cache hiding/placement. As I am preparing my first few hides, I have been reading as much as possible in the forums, which has actually led to MORE questions, some due to conflicting info. I have read all the OFFICIAL guidelines, but wish to post a list of questions I still have.

 

Should I attach it to here, or an existing thread where someone has asked similar questions about the hiding aspect?

 

Lost in it all...

[Keystone]

Hello,

 

I have split your post out into its own topic, instead of having it appear in the "Frequently Asked Questions" topic. Typically posts are added to the FAQ topic to provide reference answers. It is not a place well-suited for a back and forth dialogue.

 

Ask your questions here in your own thread and you will be able to have a nice conversation with a number of helpful geocachers.

[+Mr Hedgehog]

Let's hear the questions and we'll see if we can answer them!

[+Markwell]

I've got TONS of answers. Of course many of them might be wrong or have nothing to do with Geocaching. Bring 'em on.

[+Robespierre]

OK:

1. buy the yellow etrex as a starter

2. don't hide in a National Park

3. Yes, you can return to a cache to get a travel bug.

4. no food items in caches, or dirty socks.

5. never give us an opportunity to fool around like this.

[+hikemeister]

Nada on the yellow etrex -- go online and you can find a Venture for about $120 or a Legend for less than $150.

[+CompuCash]

Nada on the yellow etrex -- go online and you can find a Venture for about $120 or a Legend for less than $150.

 

I got a legend for $135 from Amazon.

 

Free shipping -

[Lost in it all...]

LMAO Yes, I do see that Robespierre has a point with # 5 on that list.

 

Thank you for getting started and these great attempts at reading my mind! I love how helpful cachers are!!

 

Let's start with eliminating the device advice. I have my MeriGold that I got for a steal, and am very happy with it.

 

I know most of the basics (avoiding food or dangerous items, and being sure to follow property guidelines) but I have read things here that people cannot agree on. So here are questions or points I would like clarification on, or merely advice from more experienced cache hiders. I am sure I will have more, but for now...

 

1. Nails in trees....(I currently have no plans to do so, but have seen it done, and

it will be nice to know for future.)

2. Waypoints for multi - I know the wpts WITHIN the cache are not subject to the

0.1 mi rule, BUT may I use a waypoint that is not the FINAL one if it is closer

than 0.1 mile to an existing cache?

3. Offset caches fall within the multi category/icon, correct?

4. Small can/bottle of insect repellent - any reasons against it?

(I live in Houston, have seen caches with them, but the heat concerns me.)

5. Best way to ensure accurate coords before posting? My Magellan MeriGold

does do WAAS averaging, but I have seen people return on other days.

I at least plan to walk away and return a few times.

 

(I am typing this at work, and the list I have been making is at home, so expect more tomorrow.)

 

Thanks in advance for any and all info, opinion, and advice not yet asked for...

I THINK

 

Lost in it all...

[Keystone]

1.  Nails in trees....(I currently have no plans to do so, but have seen it done, and

    it will be nice to know for future.)

Nails in trees are a bad idea, if not because of harm to the tree, then because of land manager relations. See this recent thorough discussion.

2.  Waypoints for multi - I know the wpts WITHIN the cache are not subject to the 0.1 mi rule, BUT may I use a waypoint that is not the FINAL one if it is closer than 0.1 mile to an existing cache?

See this post in the FAQ topic pinned at the top of this forum for my explanation of the proximity rule. You can probably get your reviewer to cut you a break on the intermediate stages of a multicache, if you provide a good reason.

3.  Offset caches fall within the multi category/icon, correct?

Yes, that's correct, provided that the posted coordinates have some relation to the offset final coordinates, like "go to posted coordinates and then pace off a 200 foot offset at 96°" If the posted coordinates are meaningless, the cache is probably a mystery/unknown cache.

4.  Small can/bottle of insect repellent - any reasons against it? 

    (I live in Houston, have seen caches with them, but the heat concerns me.)

Anything with a scent has the possibility of attracting animals. And any aerosol can has the possibility of exploding in the summer heat. That being said, I've seen both squeeze bottles and aerosol cans in caches and I haven't seen a problem.... yet.

5.  Best way to ensure accurate coords before posting?  My Magellan MeriGold does do WAAS averaging, but I have seen people return on other days.  I at least plan to walk away and return a few times.

See this post in the FAQ thread regarding how to average waypoints. There is no "best" way. Many folks have fine success by taking just one good reading on a day with good satellite coverage.

[+briansnat]

Anything with a scent has the possibility of attracting animals. And any aerosol can has the possibility of exploding in the summer heat. That being said, I've seen both squeeze bottles and aerosol cans in caches and I haven't seen a problem.... yet.

 

Its got to get awfully hot (above 130 degrees) for an areosol can to be in danger of exploding. Maybe if you paint the container black and leave it exposed in the hot Texas sun all day, but even then I doubt it. And since most caches are hidden in cool, shady areas, like tree stumps and under logs and rocks I doubt it's an issue.

 

Actually, I've been leaving little cans of Repel insect repellent in caches. Found it on sale at Target for 99 cents a can and bought a bag full. I did get a funny look from the cashier, who helpfully informed me that it would be a lot cheaper if I purchased the large can.

5.  Best way to ensure accurate coords before posting?  My Magellan MeriGold does do WAAS averaging, but I have seen people return on other days.  I at least plan to walk away and return a few times.

 

That really isn't necessary. At one time I averaged by walking away and returning a number of times (usually around 20). My coordinates were no better that way than the way I do it now, which is to make sure I have a good sat lock, mark one waypoint and run with it. Averaging MIGHT give you better coordinates, but there is a chance it might give you worse coordinates. Even if your coords are better is it worth all the extra effort to for an additional few feet in accuracy that you're likely go get?

Edited November 30, 2004 by briansnat

[Lost in it all...]

More questions for ya -

 

6. Fire hydrants...I have a couple of questions regarding using them as part of multi-caches. Inactive hydrants are one topic, and active hydrants in a neighborhood are the other. Are there rules somewhere regarding using markings from a hydrant (something that is already printed on it), or adding some sort of non-permanent tag or information? I do not plan in any way to move, deface, or alter them. In the case of the inactive ones, there are 5-7 in an area together that I have yet to look at up close. Any feedback from firefighters or a link to rules about them is welcome.

 

7. I have seen people mention waypoints or other info written on the back of a street sign with marker. This seems VERY inappropriate to me, bordering on graffiti. I am wondering about using something to attach info in a non-permanent way. Magnets come to mind first, I am sure there are other possibilities. So, would that be a no-no, or am I ok with something that blends but can be removed? (I do realize the potential for it to disappear - it would be VERY close to home, easy to replace if necessary.)

 

8. Do people take the distance BETWEEN multi waypoints into account as part of the diff. rating? I have seen multis that can be completed on foot, and those that are miles apart from one another.

 

9. Etiquette on wanting to use a creative cache idea that someone in another state has - my first thought is to email the owner and see if they would mind being copied. How do others approach this?

 

10. How difficult is it to edit a cache page after it has been approved and is active? One cache I have in mind, there is a great quote I plan to add to the description...but I cannot find it right now. I CAN wait to put the cache out, but thought that if I can add it later without much trouble, I would post it without the quote and add it later. (The quote does not affect the findability of the cache, more for info/entertainment value.)

 

I think that is all for now. Any and all help or advice is always appreciated. The caching community and the forums make it so much easier - THANKS!!

 

Lost in it all...

 

[+chris-mouse]

6. Fire hydrants...I

Markings already present on the fire hydrant should be just fine. Adding your own markings probably isn't a good idea, for reasons similar to the marker on signposts.

 

7. I have seen people mention waypoints or other info written on the back of a street sign with marker...

As you say, markers are probably not a good idea. Hiding a marker on the sign itself is going to be difficult at best. A flat sheet of bare aluminium just doesn't leave much to use for concealment. It may be possible to put a microcache container of some sort into the space between the sign and the post it's mounted on though. If the top of the post is within easy reach, it may also be possible to hide something inside a hollow post, or inside a fake post cap.

 

8. Do people take the distance BETWEEN multi waypoints into account as part of the diff. rating?...

I usually don't. If the overall length of the cache is something that might become tiresome for small children, I usually include some indication of the total length in the cache description.

 

9. Etiquette on wanting to use a creative cache idea that someone in another state has - my first thought is to email the owner and see if they would mind being copied. How do others approach this?

This one depends on a lot of things. It's never wrong to ask, and it's probably a good idea if you're copying the cache exactly, and it's going to be located in the same general area. On the other hand, if you take an idea from another cache, and use it as the inspiration for designing a similar cache halfway around the world, there's not really any need to ask.

 

10. How difficult is it to edit a cache page after it has been approved and is active?

It's not difficult at all. The page edit form is the same one as you use when submitting the cache. As long as you're not trying to change the location by a large amount, or change the cache type, there's no need to go through the approval process a second time.

[+Thot]

Okay, I'll change this to another answer.

 

I personally think taking multiple measurements and averaging them give better coordinates. I wrote a utility that makes this easier. You can download it here

Edited December 15, 2004 by Thot

[ThePup]

Okay, I'll change this to another answer.

 

I personally think taking multiple measurements and averaging them give better coordinates. I wrote a utility that makes this easier. You can download it here

There must be less GPSrs than I thought that have averaging built in... My Garmin72 has it, a friends 12XL has it, I just figured it was a common feature. You mark a waypoint, you select "average Waypoint" and put the GPSr down for 5 or 10 minutes. 500 readings later, it's generally showing an extimated accuracy of 3m or so (about 10 feet in 'merkin measurements ). That's pretty good, since we don't get WAAS signals down here in .au.

 

<poke="at magellan owners">

Perhaps it's just the superior garmin line that has averaging built in...

</poke>

[+Mopar]

Anything with a scent has the possibility of attracting animals. And any aerosol can has the possibility of exploding in the summer heat. That being said, I've seen both squeeze bottles and aerosol cans in caches and I haven't seen a problem.... yet.

 

Its got to get awfully hot (above 130 degrees) for an areosol can to be in danger of exploding. Maybe if you paint the container black and leave it exposed in the hot Texas sun all day, but even then I doubt it. And since most caches are hidden in cool, shady areas, like tree stumps and under logs and rocks I doubt it's an issue.

 

Actually, I've been leaving little cans of Repel insect repellent in caches. Found it on sale at Target for 99 cents a can and bought a bag full. I did get a funny look from the cashier, who helpfully informed me that it would be a lot cheaper if I purchased the large can.

In theory, what Brian says sounds good. In real life, however, I've seen a mess like this more then once. Maybe the insecticide freezes and expands, maybe the heat increases the pressure enough to leak past a seal.... I don't no the reason, but I've trashed out at least 3 that had leaked in caches.

[+sTeamTraen]

7. I have seen people mention waypoints or other info written on the back of a street sign with marker...

As you say, markers are probably not a good idea. Hiding a marker on the sign itself is going to be difficult at best. A flat sheet of bare aluminium just doesn't leave much to use for concealment. It may be possible to put a microcache container of some sort into the space between the sign and the post it's mounted on though. If the top of the post is within easy reach, it may also be possible to hide something inside a hollow post, or inside a fake post cap.

One way to hide coords (it's popular in Belgium, at least) is to hammer them into small strips of metal (you can get sets of stamping tools for this), then stick the metal strips to the sign, metal fence support, or whatever, with epoxy glue.

 

They will be invisible to muggles - if they see them at all, they will think they were put there by the highways department.

 

And even if the road maintenance people see them, you can make them look reasonably "official". (And with epoxy glue, they'll be pretty hard to get off anyway!)

 

Nick

[+Kai Team]

8.  Do people take the distance BETWEEN multi waypoints into account as part of the diff. rating?  I have seen multis that can be completed on foot, and those that are miles apart from one another.

It's a good idea to follow the distance guidelines for mystery or puzzle caches when placing multis/offset caches, for the reasons listed, i.e.

 

"Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of Travel Bugs that find their way into the cache reasonably correct."

 

If you follow these guidelines, you can use the Geocache Rating System as you would for any other cache.

 

9.  Etiquette on wanting to use a creative cache idea that someone in another state has - my first thought is to email the owner and see if they would mind being copied.  How do others approach this?

Your instinct about emailing the owner is correct - for a consensus opinion on this and other questions, see this thread on the Geocachers Code. The final draft of the code is the second post in the thread, and your question is specifically addressed in the last bulleted example under "be considerate of others".

[+Sputnik 57]

4. Small can/bottle of insect repellent - any reasons against it?

(I live in Houston, have seen caches with them, but the heat concerns me.)

As a fellow Houstonian, I think insect repellent in a cache is a great idea. I don't leave home without it (even in December). But leakage is a problem. DEET eats plastic (like digital watch crystals, GPRr face plates, etc.) so you need to be sure that the container doesn't leak. I wouldn't worry too much about freezing , nor about exploding aerosol cans. I think a mini aerosol would be fine.

 

Hope to run in to you, LIIA, and look forward to hunting your caches!

[+Firemedic + Family]

More questions for ya -

 

6. Fire hydrants...I have a couple of questions regarding using them as part of multi-caches. Inactive hydrants are one topic, and active hydrants in a neighborhood are the other. Are there rules somewhere regarding using markings from a hydrant (something that is already printed on it), or adding some sort of non-permanent tag or information? I do not plan in any way to move, deface, or alter them. In the case of the inactive ones, there are 5-7 in an area together that I have yet to look at up close. Any feedback from firefighters or a link to rules about them is welcome.

 

 

 

Fire departments can be very protective of their fire hydrants. After all their lives may depend on it. The hydrants themselves are most likely maintained regularly and thus any added marking would be painted over yearly. There may also be local ordinances with penalties for any tampering with a hydrant, this would include ones that seem to be out of service as those could be on a repair list and become operational in the near future. Just be thoughtful and take care not to bring any negative feelings toward geo cachers, especially from an uninformed fire department.

Edited December 19, 2004 by Firemedic + Family

[+briansnat]

In theory, what Brian says sounds good. In real life, however, I've seen a mess like this more then once

 

I was referring specifically to aerosol cans.

[+Thot]

One way to hide coords is to hammer them into small strips of metal, then stick the metal strips to the sign, metal fence support, or whatever, with epoxy glue.

 

I like this idea. Is it kosher to make this kind of irreversible change to signs, etc.?

[+briansnat]

Is it kosher to make this kind of irreversible change to signs, etc.?

 

I think they call that vandalism.

Edited December 19, 2004 by briansnat

[+Kit Fox]

Meridian Gold user here:

 

I take coordinates one time. I let the GPS average for about 5 minutes and no-one has ever complained about bad coords on my caches.

 

A better alternative for marking street signs with coords is to use the stamped metal idea, but add an "S" hook to the metal tag. The coords can easily be removed without damaging the signs.

[+Thot]

use the stamped metal idea, but add an "S" hook to the metal tag. The coords can easily be removed without damaging the signs.

I'm sorry I didn't follow that. Does this have the metal label with the coordinates as a separate object hanging loose?

[+Kit Fox]

use the stamped metal idea, but add an "S" hook to the metal tag. The coords can easily be removed without damaging the signs.

I'm sorry I didn't follow that. Does this have the metal label with the coordinates as a separate object hanging loose?

Yes,

 

It's a piece of metal stamped with the coordinates that you hang from the metal post, used for the Stop sign. Think along the lines of pegboard or a coat hanger. The principle is the same. Or you can add a thin magnet to the piece of metal and "attach" the coords to the metal post.

[+Kai Team]

use the stamped metal idea, but add an "S" hook to the metal tag. The coords can easily be removed without damaging the signs.

I'm sorry I didn't follow that. Does this have the metal label with the coordinates as a separate object hanging loose?

Yes,

 

It's a piece of metal stamped with the coordinates that you hang from the metal post, used for the Stop sign. Think along the lines of pegboard or a coat hanger. The principle is the same. Or you can add a thin magnet to the piece of metal and "attach" the coords to the metal post.

Or you could put holes in both ends of the piece of stamped metal and tie it to the sign post with short pieces of wire. This would make it less likely to get muggled, but it still could be easily removed (think wire cutters) without damaging the sign if necessary or desired.

[Lost in it all...]

Thanks for all of the answers, ideas, and advice! I will keep an eye on this thread if anyone feels like sharing more...but those answers are what I needed to get my caches out in the best way possible.

 

Lost in it all...