+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) Heard a rumor that new caches are not being approved inside Adirondack SP in NY??? Is this true? If it is it's a shame... that excludes like 15% of NY State and probably some of the best places in NY to put a cache... We own property & a house within the Park, and from what I've heard that makes no difference... Does anyone else know of this and/or the reasons why? Sorry for the misspelling in the post title... seems I can't fix it... I meant Adrondack SP... Edited November 22, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) Its been that way for a while. Adirondack Park is forest preserve run by the NY DEC and they have banned geocaches on forest preserve land. The ban is also in effect in the Catskills and any other DEC administered areas. Actually the other DEC areas don't have an actual ban, but they require a special use permit and a proof of a $1,000,000 liability insurance policy which is effectively a ban. I think you can still place a cache on your own property though. I don't think GC.COM would keep you from doing that. Talk with NFA, because he's been placing caches in the Adirondacks and knows the ropes. Edited November 22, 2004 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) Mmmm... we placed our Creekside Cache last year with no problems... it's well within the park on the trail to Hope Falls... and our son has placed a cache at Hope Falls... still no problem... I was wondering when this all started? It must be new... we know a lot of people who have caches within the park... It really sucks... Don't the people who administer these parks realize that GeoCachers probably do more good, by removing trash, than most visitors who leave their trash? (Deb is fanatical about taking trash out)... If the arguement is liability... then why not require everyone who visits, hikes, camps... to have insurance???!!! We are just talking about valueless trinkets in a box here!!!! Thanks Brian for the contact... NFA... Edited November 22, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) If the site is not within the forest preserve boundry, you're OK. The ban's been in effect for quite a while. Several years. I don't think GC.COM was aware of the ban until fairly recently though. I know they've been working with NY to open up most DEC lands, but I doubt they'll ever get caches in the forest preserves. Their reasoning is that its a forest preserve, which is a special area protected specifically by the NY state constitution. It's supposed to be a wilderness-like area and they deem geocaching to be unacceptable in such an area. But the funny thing is that they have opened trails to ATVs in the forest preserve and had to be sued by some environmental orgainzations to enforce their own rules against motorized travel in the preserve. Makes you wonder about the people calling the shots at the DEC. In their mind its OK to allow ATV's to tear up the terrain, but you can't carefully conceal a Tupperware container in the woods . Go figure. Edited November 22, 2004 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 And don't even get me started on paintball. I've seen areas around here where players are cutting down trees, building structures and digging foxholes but God forbid if you walk 10 feet of trail to find a rubbermaid container with toys in it. Quote Link to comment
+nfa Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Hi, I sent an email out to someone who emailed me about this very topic: Hi XXXXXXXX, At the moment, you cannot place a geocache on State Forest Preserve land in the ADK park. That's the bad news...the goods news is that over half of the ADK park is not State Forest Preserve land. There is lots of timber, easement, town, and other private land that is available for geocaching and placing geocaches (with permission where needed). email me if you ever get up to my neck of the woods caching, and we could get together for coffee or something. Jamie I've placed a number of geocaches, none of them located on State Forest Preserve. To the best of my knowledge (when I last went out to ask at the Region 5 DEC headqquaters in Raybrook, NY) they are not allowing caches to be placed on State Forest Preserve Land, with or without liability insurance and the special use permit (which were both part of the administrivia required for picnics and one-time events on State Forest Preserve land, which is the niche that they stuck geocaching in). I have heard that they are working on a new and friendlier geocaching policy, and have hopes that they will adjust the current policy to afford geocachers the same courtesy they extend to snowmobilers, rock-climbers, jet-skiiers and boaters...all of whom operate on Forest Preserve Land without special insurance or permits and have more widespread effects on the environment than geocaching does and would. nfa-jamie Quote Link to comment
+amytincan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 If the site is not within the forest preserve boundry, you're OK. The ban's been in effect for quite a while. Several years. I don't think GC.COM was aware of the ban until fairly recently though. I know they've been working with NY to open up most DEC lands, but I doubt they'll ever get caches in the forest preserves. Their reasoning is that its a forest preserve, which is a special area protected specifically by the NY state constitution. It's supposed to be a wilderness-like area and they deem geocaching to be unacceptable in such an area. But the funny thing is that they have opened trails to ATVs in the forest preserve and had to be sued by some environmental orgainzations to enforce their own rules against motorized travel in the preserve. Makes you wonder about the people calling the shots at the DEC. In their mind its OK to allow ATV's to tear up the terrain, but you can't carefully conceal a Tupperware container in the woods . Go figure. Brian, are they staying on the trails? Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 If the site is not within the forest preserve boundry, you're OK. The ban's been in effect for quite a while. Several years. I don't think GC.COM was aware of the ban until fairly recently though. I know they've been working with NY to open up most DEC lands, but I doubt they'll ever get caches in the forest preserves. Their reasoning is that its a forest preserve, which is a special area protected specifically by the NY state constitution. It's supposed to be a wilderness-like area and they deem geocaching to be unacceptable in such an area. But the funny thing is that they have opened trails to ATVs in the forest preserve and had to be sued by some environmental orgainzations to enforce their own rules against motorized travel in the preserve. Makes you wonder about the people calling the shots at the DEC. In their mind its OK to allow ATV's to tear up the terrain, but you can't carefully conceal a Tupperware container in the woods . Go figure. Brian, are they staying on the trails? In most of the cases I've seen the answer is no. They do go off trail and create new trails. Not that it matters if they stay on trail or not. They do a tremendous amount of damage on and off trail. I've seen ruts in trails 6 feet deep from ATVs. This causes the ground to erode and eventually effects the drinking water as well. I'm not sure if you're implying that if ATVs stay on trail it's OK. Can you please clarify? Quote Link to comment
+amytincan Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I'm not sure if you're implying that if ATVs stay on trail it's OK. Can you please clarify? If the trails are there and approved for their use, they should be allowed to use them. Its public land. It should also be available for you to geocache too. Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 (edited) I think the jist of the problem is: Things allowed in the Park (the short list): Camping with fires... Hunting including the building of blinds and deer stands... ATV's and Snowmobiles that transport the people who leave all those beer cans in the woods (ever wonder how ALL those beer cans can end up in one spot so far from the nearest road? They weren't carried in on people's backs)... not to mention the noise polution... Fisherman who leave balls of tangled fishing line around to strangle birds... Jeep roads that have piles of tires at the end of them that someone just wanted to get rid of... and all the rest of the people who trash the park... (I'm not trying to say everyone trashes the park, but there must be quite a few! beacuse there is a lot of garbage out there) Not Allowed????: A well hidden geocache containing trinkets... sought after a group of people who will (and do) clean up after themselves and the other not so thoughtful visitors... a geocache with an identifyable owner... I'm not advocating banning any of the activities listed above... although an enforcement of the ban on ATV's at the very least would be an improvement... Just don't carpet ban a benign (and in most cases beneficial) sport like geocaching... It makes no sense... Edited November 23, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 I'm not sure if you're implying that if ATVs stay on trail it's OK. Can you please clarify? If the trails are there and approved for their use, they should be allowed to use them. Its public land. It should also be available for you to geocache too. Actually forest preserve rules ban motorized vehicles. The DEC went against their own rules and allowed them and had to be sued so they would enforce their own rules. ATV's are not a benign, low impact use of public lands like geocaching, hiking and similar activities. The damage they cause is extensive. As JM Bella mentioned, they cause deep erosion and often irrepairable scars when driven irresponsibly. We spent over 500 man hours repairing an ATV ravaged trail this summer only to have the repairs torn up immediately upon completion by rogue riders. It's ironic that the DEC allows this stuff to go on, but puts the hammer down on geocaching. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 A similar story from here in Pennsylvania: In summer of 2002, I got involved in the effort to negotiate a workable geocaching policy for Pennsylvania's State Parks and State Forests. At first they were talking about removal of all unauthorized caches. Through months of hard work by many people, a final policy was published in Spring of 2003. Tupperware hunting would be strictly regulated, but at least it was going to be allowed. Delighted with this result, I approached a park ranger for permission to hide my first caches in a state park. This took two meetings, filling out a "Geocache Identification Form", waiting for the results of a "Natural Diversity Inventory Check" (and, it turned out, one of my planned hiding spots was in a protected plant zone and had to be re-worked.) Then, I signed a legally binding agreement regarding my cache maintenance obligations, including a promise to restore the site if there was any damage. Finally, it was time to hide the cache! I set out for the most remote area of the park, on a winding hiking trail through a wetland area. As I carried the ammo can and my permit and official sticker, I hear a loud noise. An ATV rider, tearing up the soft ground of the trail. He stopped and asked me for directions, then tore away, ruining more trail as he traveled. ATV's, of course, are strictly forbidden on this trail. But me, I had to spend ten months to work to a point where I could legally hide an ammo can under a dead tree. Go figure. Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Thanks to whomever fixed my finger fart in the Post Title... Quote Link to comment
+Postkid Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 An ATV rider, tearing up the soft ground of the trail. He stopped and asked me for directions, then tore away, ruining more trail as he traveled. ATV's, of course, are strictly forbidden on this trail. Did you tell him to go the wrong way? In summer of 2002, I got involved in the effort to negotiate a workable geocaching policy for Pennsylvania's State Parks and State Forests. At first they were talking about removal of all unauthorized caches. Through months of hard work by many people, a final policy was published in Spring of 2003. Tupperware hunting would be strictly regulated, but at least it was going to be allowed. Now if only we could work with NY the same way. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 I'm not sure if you're implying that if ATVs stay on trail it's OK. Can you please clarify? If the trails are there and approved for their use, they should be allowed to use them. Its public land. It should also be available for you to geocache too. Just because it's public land doesn't mean ATVs are legal. I'm not sure about the rest of the state but on Long Island it is ILLEGAL to ride ATVs on ANY public lands. I find it hard to believe that ATVs are legal anywhere in the state. Can someone verify that? ATV dealers around here are required to tell potential purchasers that they can buy them, but can't ride them anywhere on the island. Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Actually JMB... it IS legal to ride ATV's in Riverhead Town still... on state & town property... As a matter of fact the Suffolk Times had an atrilce in this weeks issue... They are trying to enact a law now... Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Actually JMB... it IS legal to ride ATV's in Riverhead Town still... on state & town property... As a matter of fact the Suffolk Times had an atrilce in this weeks issue... They are trying to enact a law now... Really? I was told differently. I don't understand how Riverhead has the authority to say what goes on on state property. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 An ATV rider, tearing up the soft ground of the trail. He stopped and asked me for directions, then tore away, ruining more trail as he traveled. ATV's, of course, are strictly forbidden on this trail. Did you tell him to go the wrong way? I gave him directions to the nearest road where vehicle traffic was allowed, and told him in the strongest possible terms to leave the park immediately. As I was wearing all green clothing and carrying an ammo box with a state park sticker on it, I bet he thought I was a park ranger, so he did as I asked. Quote Link to comment
+macatac1961 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I went after one of JMB's caches in Manorville and heard the sound of 2 or 3 dirt bikes go down the trail I just came up and on the hike back, it looked like someone had gone through there with a roto-tiller. One pass of those bikes did more damage than a dozen horses could have. Quote Link to comment
+BlackBuck Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I went after one of JMB's caches in Manorville and heard the sound of 2 or 3 dirt bikes go down the trail I just came up and on the hike back, it looked like someone had gone through there with a roto-tiller. One pass of those bikes did more damage than a dozen horses could have. I placed a cache in manorvilledietz hillThat if you look at the terraserver link you can see the atv damage from space!Its a figure eight track on top of the hill,also in one spot on the hill the track has gouged out a six foot deep rut.Long island only has about six inches of top soil then its just sand so damage occurs quickly. Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 (edited) JMB... Actually the way it was worded in the article, I think, was "Public Lands" ... But, all we can do is hope the Town of Riverhead deals with it and drastically cuts down on the areas destroyed... As stated previously (by balckbuck) in this area there is about 4-6" topsoil & then sand... It does not take much here to start an erossion nightmare... Edited November 29, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+edscott Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 .... but I doubt they'll ever get caches in the forest preserves. Their reasoning is that its a forest preserve, which is a special area protected specifically by the NY state constitution. It's supposed to be a wilderness-like area and they deem geocaching to be unacceptable in such an area. .....In their mind its OK to allow ATV's to tear up the terrain, but you can't carefully conceal a Tupperware container in the woods . Go figure. Don't expect them to change their mind either. Anyone else here that is an Adirondack 46R and knows the cannister saga can attest to that. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 .... but I doubt they'll ever get caches in the forest preserves. Their reasoning is that its a forest preserve, which is a special area protected specifically by the NY state constitution. It's supposed to be a wilderness-like area and they deem geocaching to be unacceptable in such an area. .....In their mind its OK to allow ATV's to tear up the terrain, but you can't carefully conceal a Tupperware container in the woods . Go figure. Don't expect them to change their mind either. Anyone else here that is an Adirondack 46R and knows the cannister saga can attest to that. Stranger things have happened. Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 (edited) GIDYYUP!!! I just got VERBAL confirmation (phone call about 30 mins ago) from the FULTON County Enforcement Officer for the DEC in NY... (previous calls were unanswered, or given a blanket NO... due to lack of understanding of just what I was talking about)... The NYDEC state lands (in this case Adirondack Park, but it includes ALL DEC Lands in NY) are now OK for Geocaching... PROVIDING... On an ongoing basis... That Geocaching does not prove to be detrimental to their goals or the environment!!! (i.e. if an area is closed to everyone... then obviously it is closed to us, don't just leave it up to NYADMIN to approve or not, use common sense)... THIS IS HUGE!!! It opens up vast amounts of acreage to us! PLEASE... BE RESPONSIBLE!!! ... nobody abuse this privaledge!!! (this statement put in as a disclaimer, I know you are all responsible)... Do not place caches far off trails that require a lot of bushwhacking or in wetlands or in envronmentally sensitive areas... or flood an area with caches (although, as per my conversation... a number along a particular trail is OK, providing they are welL spaced and unobtrusive).... If you bring trash out... write on the trash bags that it was a geocacher that brought it out! Become involved! LET THEM KNOW BY THE TRASH BAGS... WE'VE BEEN HERE!!! and do bring out trash! Let them know we are more responsible than the majority of land users! They now (kind of) understand what we stand for(and do) and are willing to work with us... It is now up to us to prove to them that we are, in fact, as responsible as we claim... The effects of Geocaching is now something they will be reviewing periodically... so the priveladge is NOT set in stone forever! Cache wisely! GIDYYUP!!! Edited December 6, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I caught wind of this info a couple of weeks ago. I was told to try a leak the info out very slowly. I tend to think the admins will scrutinize caches hidden in DEC areas a little more than normal but it really is up to us to make sure we never lose this privilege again. One of the DEC's main concerns as I understand it is excessive bushwhacking and off trail hiking especially in sensitive areas. Another thing we can do to help out and reinforce the fact that we are an asset to the DEC is, report any illegal usage such as ATV riders or illegal hunting. This really is a tremendous about face from the DEC. They were asked to do a study on geocaching and discovered what we already knew; that geocaching causes no real damage to the land. On Long Island alone this opens up nearly 20,000 acres of land. Yes, there is that much property here. From what I understand what really did the trick is all of us that took the time to call, write and email the NYS DEC that prompted them to take action. Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 (edited) Points to remember... Do not flood an area with caches, unless they are along a trail and related... Minimal bushwacking... and don't step on the salamanders! (sort of like Tanger Mall in Riverhead, heh, JMBella?) You know what I mean... It's all common sense... The Guy I spoke to in Fulton County was actually excited that a group as large as we are was going to be involved, in a positive way, in Adirondack Park... (he's been on the website and may be a cacher himself? who knows?) Sooooo now it is up to us to prove him right! Maybe the National Park System will come to the same conclusion one day???!!! Probably too much to ask for??? Who knows??? Everyone said NY would NEVER relent???!!! Edited December 6, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+nfa Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I've got some new ones placed on State Forest Preserve!!! I was keeping quiet at the request of NYAdmin, but the cat is out of the bag. Please enjoy caching in the ADKs responsibly, I like my son to grow up caching in these woods. nfa-jamie Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 (edited) I was keeping the cat out of the bag... until I got confirmation... for real from the NYDEC Enforcement Officer... Now the only ones who know are the geocachers that read the forums... PLEASE... NO ABUSE OF THIS PRIVALEDGE!!! Remember... we are guests here! It will be reviewed periodically!!! NYDEC has given us this privaledge... it is not a given RIGHT! No abuse... don't think if NYADMIN aproves it, it is OK... If you have any qualms... DON'T do it! Edited December 6, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+junglehair Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 From what I understand what really did the trick is all of us that took the time to call, write and email the NYS DEC that prompted them to take action. Let's not forget to thank NY Admin for all his/her hard work to get this policy changed. Here's a portion of the message was sent to NYGO to announce this change: "Not sure if you are aware of it or not but I've been working with DEC for 5 months now to have state land opened up once again to geocaching. I met again this past Monday with Tom Wolf, Bureau of State Land Management, NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation and Peter Frank, Bureau Chief, Forest Preserve Management, NYS DEC. At this last meeting they finally gave me the thumbs up. " - NY Admin As others have already mentioned, we need to tread carefully here and not abuse this priviledge. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Very good news indeed. Thanks to the people from the geocaching world who worked to make this happen and thanks to the bureaucrats in Albany for having some common sense. I wonder if they'll publish the results of their study. It would certainly help in other states. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) In fact it was New York Admin that got them to do the study but I didn't want to mention any names. You know how he likes his anonymity. It was also him who told me that it was the high volume of contact from cachers that made them take notice. The truth is we know just how much he did work with the DEC and is a big part of why we are now able to cache on their lands. Here's to New York Admin! Edited December 7, 2004 by JMBella Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Great job NYADMIN and everyone else. What's the procedure if any? Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) Great job NYADMIN and everyone else. What's the procedure if any? As far as I know the only guidelines are the ones already in place by Groundspeak. Just get your opermit to access the property and your all set. DEC Permit App. That's just for region one, Nassau adn Suffolk. Edited December 7, 2004 by JMBella Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Guinness in plastic cups? Blasphemy!!!! Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) Is the approval acrosss the board for all DEC regions? Is there a single web page to get the forms for all DEC's? Edited December 7, 2004 by Alan2 Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Is the approval acrosss the board for all DEC regions? Is there a single web page to get the forms for all DEC's? As far as I know it's across the board. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Guinness in plastic cups? Blasphemy!!!! You're right it's an outrage. I should have my warn meter popped just for posting that picture. Quote Link to comment
+jonboy Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) I would like some further clarification of this new ruling. Will this lifting of the ban be mandated for all nine DEC regions, or will it be subject to the veto of individual regional administrators? Has this policy been promulgated in writing? Will it be seen as complying with current and proposed Unit Management Plans, or will they need to be rewritten? The DEC has many different categories of land which it manages: Forest Preserve- Divided into Wilderness Areas and Wild Forest State Forest Reforestation Areas Wildlife Management Areas Multiple Use Areas Unique Areas State Nature and Historic Preserve Conservation Easements It is hard to imagine that this new policy will include all of these categories. Conservation easements, for example, are parcels of private property overseen by the DEC. It does seem that some kind of favorable interpretation as regards placing of geocaches has been adopted by the DEC, but I hardly think an oral communication will suffice. While I know there will be some within the DEC that would welcome the lifting of this ban, I know that others will be quite unhappy about this turn of events. I was involved in getting the DEC to reverse itself as regards to allowing canisters on the Catskills trailless summits over 3500 feet for the Catskill 3500 Club, and the clause allowing this had to be written into the relevant Unit Management Plans. In addition to this the club had to sign a memo of understanding as regards the conditions required for maintenance of the canisters. In order to get around the prohibition of leaving private property on state land, the canisters had to become state property and we agreed to become the caretakers of the canisters, under DEC supervision. Since that time, we have had no trouble from the DEC as regards the canisters, but I would imagine it would be a different story if we attemted to put Canisters onto new peaks. This seems like a very positive turn of events, but I wouldn't rush off into the mountains with ammo boxes just yet. Reading the series of bureaucratic obstacles geocachers had to overcome to place geocaches on PA State land, I would expect some kind of stringent vetting process for placements on DEC land. It would be helpful to have those required steps stipulated in advance. Edited December 7, 2004 by jonboy Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I think New York Admin is probably the most educated person on this subject. Might want to email him if he doesn't post to this thread. Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 (edited) jonboy... The NYSDEC Enforcement Officer for Region 5 (covering the eastern portion of Adirondack Park) told me it was now ok to Geocache on all NYSDEC lands... Persuant to any other land use restrictions that may be in effect... If an area is closed to hikers... Then it is obviously closed to Geocaching... If it is on private land managed by the DEC then permission from the owner would be required (Deb & I just happen to own this type of property in Fulton County, inside Adirondack Park)... If the spot is in wetlands... don't do it... If it is above treeline, in areas where even walking on the flora would be detremental... don't do it... If the sign says stay on the trails... don't put a cache off the trail... etc., etc. This is not rocket science... Use common sense... If you have any reservations about a particular spot... Then put your cache elsewhere... You know when you are in a restricted area... they are clearly marked... But basically... If you are allowed to hike & camp there... a Geocache is OK... Also... NYADMIN, I'm sure, will be scrutanizing any caches placed on NYSDEC lands... (I know from personal experience, he/she is very conciensious about his job)... Above all, be honest when requesting a new cache... Just because you can "pull the wool over someone's eyes", doesn't make the cache OK... Anyone who does that is putting Geocaching on NYSDEC Lands (or anywhere for that matter) in jeopardy... What they have given us can just as easily be taken away... And if they have to take it away, due to abuse... I have a feeling it will be PERMANANTLY revoked... If you have any questions, you can contact the local DEC Enforcement Officer for your Region... Just go to the NYSDEC website and the phone numbers are there... (URL is below)... The Officer I spoke to was very friendly and willing to answer any questions I had... (remember to talk to the Enforcement Officer... the first few people I spoke to when I called the Region 5 Office had absolutely no idea what I was talking about)... Region 5 Phone: 518-897-1326... I did do an inquiry with the NYSDEC Permit Office and, with the exception of Region 1 where a free 3-year access permit is needed, no particular permits are required... (it's NOT like Pennsylvania)... Unless you plan on camping for more than 3 days... Then of course there are the usual permits required for mining, logging, and for any other special land uses... These Special Use Permits are all covered on the website: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/ Edited December 8, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+New England n00b Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I just wanna say this is awesome. Congratulations are indeed due. Should I ever be in the vicinity, I'd love to stop by some of these caches! Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Peconic Bay Sailors: Just so I'm clear on this. The Blue Boundary of Catskill Park is also open? Quote Link to comment
+nfa Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 NFA-794, Wildlife Walk NFA-27, Blueberry Hill NFA-396, Moose Pond Ramble Quote Link to comment
+Peconic Bay Sailors Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 (edited) Alan2, I'm not familiar with that area, but from what I've been told... yes... if it is NYSDEC lands... depending on any other restrictions... But, I'd check with that regions DEC Enforcement Officer for any local land use restrictions... I guess you are talking aboout Region 3 or 4??? We primarily place caches in Region 1 & 5, as we have property in both regions... and are not into traveling hours to maintain a cache... and those are the Regions we are familiar with... My sister on the other hand, who lives in Colorado Springs, Co. thought nothing of driving 3-4 hours to maintain a joint micro cache we had with her along the Arkansas River about 50 miles west of Canon City, Co... (since been archived as it ran it's course)... This cache was in the middle of nowhere! There wasn't another cache within 50 miles... but she managed to make 3 or 4 maint visits when the logs filled up... and was twice lost or muggled... Edited December 9, 2004 by Peconic Bay Sailors Quote Link to comment
+jonboy Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Here is a link on the DEC website for Regional Enforcement Coordinators: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/ogc/rec/rec_staff.html I don't know if this is the same as the enforcement officer, but at the very least, they could steer you to the right person. By the way, you won't have any luck trying to call the general number for Region 3 in New Paltz, all you get is a recording telling you to enter your parties extension. Quote Link to comment
adregion Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Anyone familiar with the history of the Adirondack "Park" is well aware of the nightmarish land classification system we have. Is anyone really surprised it took so long for DEC to actually come up with an official policy? The truth is, why even get them involved? There is an incredible amount of land here and plenty of room for all kinds of activities including Geocaching. The ongoing debate over what can and can't happen in the "Wilderness" will never be settled. We should endeavor to avoid placing caches within the Forest Preserve, those that exist should be "virtual" and significant - ie. a cool view, waterfall, swimming hole, earthcache, firetower, lean-to, historical site, etc. That's my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.