Doing Commercial Caches Legit

[JMarkantes]

Howdy All-

 

It's been a few years since I've been caching much, and in searching the forums here for the last two hours I can tell that commercial caches are frowned upon by everyone, and I wholeheartadly agree. But, being that a best friend runs a very fun business and we want to have fun with this, I'm looking for ideas to plant a cache outside the geocaching.com relm but still have it find-able.

 

What I'm thinking is planting the usual cache with coupons, etc. However, the big difference is that we wouldn't add it to this website, but just have the coords and desc on our own website. Maybe a simple comments section where people could 'log' a find, in a sense. We plan on a couple caches, an easy one and a couple very challenging ones (we're an outdoor store and individually into kayaking, canyoneering, climbing, etc, so we have many ideas).

 

We would also have links to geocaching.com for people to really get into caching. The business would also happen to sell most gear required to get into it.

 

Any thoughts or feedback? Other websites where you could be allowed to mention a commercial cache?

 

Thanks for any ideas,

Jason

[Toron]

Two thoughts.

 

One: As long as you're posting outside of GC, go for it. Simple customer service dictates that you shouldn't misrepresent the cache, but with that caveat in mind, anything goes. If I knew what to expect and went after it anyway, what do I have to complain about.

 

Two: The effort to get the word out for a cache that is not listed on GC might be more than to simply advertise the store period. I have not done this, but I don't see a problem with it. Why not set up a neat cache in close proximity to the store and have it listed on GC. This would, in my opinion, be a gray area, but here goes--you couldn't advertise the store in the cache itself (coupons, flyers, etc), you couldn't place the cache IN the store itself, the cache would have to be cool in its own right. You could always put a sign up within sight of the cache that advertises geocaching products available in the store. The idea behind this may be a bit shady, but I think the end experience for the cacher would be no problem at all. Nothing was shoved in the face of the cacher, and the cache was a good experience.

 

My .02

[+Renegade Knight]

Your website, your cache listing rules. The entire trick is to get people to use your site for those few caches. If the cache is a can't miss cache word will get out. If it's normal or even better than average... Odds are it won't draw much interest.

[+Harrald]

How about contacting Groundspeak? Maybe you can strike a deal for advertising. That way it can be listed on this website.

 

It couldn't hurt to ask.

[+Renegade Knight]

Harrald makes a good point. One of the criteria for listing a commercial cache is to ask first. So far the only ones I know of were APE Caches and the Jeep Travel bugs so the magnitude might be lacking, but see what comes of it and post back here so we all know.

[+southdeltan]

Good point Harrald.

 

According to the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines :

 

Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing.  These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas may not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

 

It's not that commercial caches are banned - it's that unapproved comercial caches are banned.

 

Fire off an email to Groundspeak and see what they say.

 

sd

[+The Puzzler]

Another two cents.

 

IMHO, I think geocaching is all about having fun while both hiding and hunting interesting caches. As with anything, there is danger in commerical exploitation taking away some of the fun to provide business with an advertising platform.

 

BUT, I also know that some of the very best fun in this world can be had with the support of a busines that puts fun as a high priority in its promotional efforts. Jeep may be a good example.

 

Public television, for example, cannot survive without private support, but it has found a comfortable compromise between giving something back to its sponsors while not having the whole affare driven by commercial interests.

 

I would LOVE to see businesses take up geocache hiding as a fun community outreach that maintained hight quality caches as a tasteful promotion of their business - so long as they are hidden in the free spirit of geocaching. I would be more than willing to see a small comment on a geocaching web page that indicated that the cache was hidden and maintained by a commercial interest. And, I would have no objection to the cache containing interesting promotional items (many of which can be quite niffty, much better than much of the junk I currently find, I'm sure).

 

So, I would like to encourage those powers that be at geocahing.com as well as those potential "investors" to invest in commercially supported geocaching in a moderate, discrete and tasteful manner so that we can enjoy yet another dimention to our sport without overwhelming the spirit of the individual.

 

And, at risk of showing my naivitae, what about another geocaching icon type indicating a commercal cache?

[+dingermcduff]

Recently, I did a cache that turned out to be a commercial cache. I was very angry that someone had used this hobby for advertising. Basically, I loaded my boy into the truck, spent my gas and time, got my hopes up...and found the cache right under the front steps of a business, in more or less plain sight , full of coupons and advertisements for the business. Couldn't believe that someone got me to spend my gas looking for their ad.

 

I fired off an angry log on the cache page and an email to the local approver.

 

As it turned out, the individual who had placed the cache had signed up the week before and had never found a cache (which made me suspect commercialism even more), and uninformed of the rules, he was just trying to encourage the hobby the business was associated with. When he told the business owner of his plan, the owner insisted that the advertising be present. To complicate matters even more, he chose the fairly conspicuous location because he suffers from serious arthritis and doesn't get around well.

 

I apologized for the misunderstanding and politely informed him that the advertising and coupons wouldn't fly with cachers or approvers. I then suggested that he find some caches before he place more and recommended some local handicapped-accessible caches. Finally I informed him that there were probably other ways to use a cache to encourage the hobby (coin collecting) he enjoyed so much. He has since placed a couple of very good, very challenging caches--

 

...a geocaching success story!

 

Anyway, to get back to the thread, I would not at all be inclined to search for a commercial cache, even if it was stated in the cache page. I don't need to spend my time and gas looking for some business's ad.

 

And as for commercial caches placed deceptively...

[+The Geocache Hunter]

If all you want to do is throw in a couple of coupons I don't see why you just can't make it a regular cache (with swag and log book) and list it on this sight. From your description that sounds like all you are really planning. I have found some decent coupons in caches before.

 

Is the idea to get people to the cache because of the business or to get people interested in the business because of the cache?

 

Is it about the fun of hiding a cache or is the emphasis on advertising?

[+globalgirl]

People, people, PEOPLE. Have we not already got commercial seeping into verily every minute crevice of our society? Every blessed major sport team, even our local and national journalism - our blessed (so-called) "Free" Speech (not!)?

 

No harm in "tossing in a couple of coupons"? And might I ask where does it end?

 

Is it about the fun of hiding a cache or is the emphasis on advertising?

 

Who cares? Who can bloody tell? Are you up to devining just where on the continuum of "emphasis" a 3rd coupon lies? A fourth? one 18" coupon? two 4" coupons? A stack of 2" coupons? A vinyl banner ad wrapped around the logbook?

 

Personally I think even the business cards I find in caches degrades the spirit of it all.

 

And we certainly don't need corporate support to run this sport - it's growing by leaps and bounds all by itself. Gee, I wonder why, could it be for the mere FUN of it?

 

I honestly haven't thought through every nuance of this topic, and freely admit to running (pecking) on raw emotion here, but alls I know is that in my GUT - even a smidge of commercial in our precious caches is just plain wrong, wrong, WRONG!

 

THIS is where it begins. But then where does it END???

 

Errr... sorry for the outburst, but guess this topic just hit a nerve...

[+Robespierre]

Well, there's another new caching website, with fewer rules, yattayattayatta...just tried to splash their efforts all over this forum...maybe you would fit there...or that Swiss thing with all the fire they have....

It's easy to see why one would want to put a cache at his Nursery, to have the fun of seeing people drive up and look, and a natural thought is that maybe they'd check out the business...that's a normal thought. However, check the rules, awww, ya know what they are. Now, I think Harrald suggested you ask for permission. You aren't as big as Daimler-Chrysler, but maybe...

[+The Jester]

...even a smidge of commercial in our precious caches is just plain wrong, wrong, WRONG!

 

THIS is where it begins. But then where does it END???

Well, then we better remove every item that has a company's name on it - all the McToys, the pens, the whatever... Hmm, isn't that taking things too far?

 

I don't think I've ever seen a cache that didn't have some 'commercial' aspect to it. GPSr food (batteries) have the company name on them (advertising); pens have company's names; the list could go on (and on, and on...).

 

I would see nothing wrong with a cache that was maintained (supported) by a business - as long as the contents weren't only ads. Regular swag with an evelope that contained coupons (for those that wanted) and a note saying 'this cache brought to you by...' would be great. And people who don't want to hunt that sort of cache are free not to hunt it (the same as any other type you don't like).

 

But that sort of thing could get out of hand, which is why the PTB probably don't wnat this type of cache. But wouldn't it be nice it that lame micro in Wally's parking lot was maintained by that store, expanded to a full size and stock nicely?

[+fly46]

A cacher up here in NE ohio just tried to get one - and it wasn't advertising a specific business. She had wanted a multi that would take you up and down Main Ave (which used to be the heart of our city) and at least half of the businesses had donated something for the final cache container.

 

Because some of the cords for the cache were on rocks in store windows, they decided it was a commercial cache and said no way. (You didn't even have to go in the businesses to do this cache... just 'window shop')

 

Chances are the only way you'll get a commercial cache approved is if the business in question is Groundspeak.

 

 

With that said, if you feel the need to do something that skirts our guidelines so blatently, please, take it to another site, but don't tell us about it.

 

I'm quite sure if you wanted to place a normal cache and the reason for anything commercial was as a thank you to the store for letting you put a cache in their bushes that you'd have a CHANCE at getting it through... But only a chance.

[OuttaHand]

We have done one commercial cache: Cafe' Cache'. It is now archived and if you read the logs, you'll see that it was somewhat irresponsibly cared-for.

I'm not sure how it ever got to be a cache in the first place. It was a pure a commercial cache as ever there could be: An ammo box on the counter inside a cafe. We did the cache, and we enjoyed a snack while there. Was I offended? No -- simply because I knew, before attempting the cache, that it was in a commercial establishment. Did it feel odd? You bet!!!

 

As was stated above, the best you can do is: A) Make a plea to the powers-that-be to allow your particular cache, and Make darn sure you state very clearly on the cache description that it is a commercial cache and that seekers need to understand that before pursuing it.

[+tirediron]

Going mildly OT here, but it seems to me that GC could increase it's coffers a little by creating a "Commercial Cache" category. These could then be listed with the regular 'cache listings FOR A FEE, and each page would have to clearly state that it was a commercial 'cache. I would have no problem hunting down a 'cache of coupons IF I KNEW AHEAD OF TIME that's what it was!

 

Applause to Dinger' for handling his commercial 'caching episode so well... I'm not sure I would have been quite as forgiving!