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Snakes


Hawkbit
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I walked down the trail a ways and kept watch on them (I could see they were watching me).  I was wearing a shirt that I had gotten from a K9 Nationals competition (it has a shefiff's star on front and a K9 on back with some large writing about K9 Nationals).

Sorry. You're walking around in a cop shirt and you're wondering why teenagers are watching you?

 

Let me think about it.

1) Because in their eyes, you're a cop. That makes you an enemy and a dangerous one at that.

2) Because they can see that you're watching them just like you can see that they're watching you.

 

From what I'm reading they treated you no differently than you treated them, and yet you're referring to them as "snakes"? You both didn't trust the other, you both watched the other, and you both were probably grateful when the other side left.

I can see that point of view very clearly. In high school it was popular to drag main, but the cops in our town never hesitated to tailgate or follow you to cause you to weave nervously. So we took to parking in a parking lot. They'd stop by everynow and then, get out of their cruisers and "casually" walk around our group with flashlights in hand. They'd make friendly chit chat, but we knew that they were trying to catch us in the act. The joke was on them though...we weren't doing anything wrong.

 

But I also identify with Hawkbit, I'd be uncomforable too. At least they were eyeballing you and not your truck.

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In the forest preserves around here, I get a little uncomfortable when guys watch me walk into the woods...especially the ones who have backed their cars into the parking spots. I don't think they're looking to break into my truck. <_<

 

As for snakes, I haven't run into anything bigger than a garter snake.

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it's not an insult unless it's done to their face.

The number of people upset by the "get a life" news report says otherwise. It's a behavior that as a group we refused to tolerate when it was done to us. Because of that, it's a behavior I don't want to see us get into.

 

If everyone had just blown that one off, I wouldn't care. But they couldn't and they didn't. They wanted the man's job for what he said. Because of that I belive we now have a responsibilty to behave in a manner that we request of others.

 

i trust no one when i am out caching alone.  i don't care if they are wearing a suit and tie, or jeans and sneakers. being alert everywhere you go is the way it is in some places.  reality bites but it's the way the world is now.

Now that's a statement I can agree with, and one I don't think the original poster was getting across with their example.

 

The teenagers were doing exactly as you suggested. They were being alert and they weren't trusting someone. It just turns out that the person they didn't trust was a geocacher.

 

Given that geocachers tend to behave a bit suspiciously and oddly in public by trying to be sneaky this sort of behavior leads to a number of problems. There's a good chance perfectly normal people are going to behave oddly around you. They're going to watch you. And if these people belong to a class of people that you don't trust because of race (see the above cabrini green example), age (see the first post regarding teenagers), profession (see the first post regarding the teenagers behavior towards a police officer), or some other factor, it's easy to decide to distrust them all the more.

 

So in addition to being alert to your surroundings and the people around you, please be alert to your behavior, and how your actions and reactions may be perceived by those around you, because if we can use "the way the world is now" to justify our suspicions of others, they are allowed to use "the way the world is now" to justify their suspicions of us.

the get a life news report WAS done to my face. the guy was on tv saying it. i don't recall these forums being on television. the reporter was making a comment on ceocachers specifically. the topic opener just used a general description. if those teens came to this thread they would have no idea they were the subject. everyone who saw that newscast knew he was referring only to geocachers.

Edited by uperdooper
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Given that geocachers tend to behave a bit suspiciously and oddly in public by trying to be sneaky this sort of behavior leads to a number of problems. There's a good chance perfectly normal people are going to behave oddly around you. They're going to watch you. And if these people belong to a class of people that you don't trust because of race (see the above cabrini green example), age (see the first post regarding teenagers), profession (see the first post regarding the teenagers behavior towards a police officer), or some other factor, it's easy to decide to distrust them all the more.

 

So in addition to being alert to your surroundings and the people around you, please be alert to your behavior, and how your actions and reactions may be perceived by those around you, because if we can use "the way the world is now" to justify our suspicions of others, they are allowed to use "the way the world is now" to justify their suspicions of us.

there you go saying i don't trust people because of race. (cabrini green example). you have a wonderful way of reading more into a post than was intentioned. anyone who has watched a report on cabrini green knows it isn't even safe for the people living there, much less an outsider. i work with the public. most of my jobs have been working with the public. i have more problems and trouble with white teenage boys than any other age, or group. i now have an intense distrust of white teenage boys. i'm white by the way. if i see a group of them anywhere i am going to be very watchful of them. maybe that's wrong, but i respond to how i have been treated. that's just the way it is. i'm sure i am not the only one.

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Given that geocachers tend to behave a bit suspiciously and oddly in public by trying to be sneaky this sort of behavior leads to a number of problems. There's a good chance perfectly normal people are going to behave oddly around you. They're going to watch you. And if these people belong to a class of people that you don't trust because of race (see the above cabrini green example), age (see the first post regarding teenagers), profession (see the first post regarding the teenagers behavior towards a police officer), or some other factor, it's easy to decide to distrust them all the more.

 

So in addition to being alert to your surroundings and the people around you, please be alert to your behavior, and how your actions and reactions may be perceived by those around you, because if we can use "the way the world is now" to justify our suspicions of others, they are allowed to use "the way the world is now" to justify their suspicions of us.

there you go saying i don't trust people because of race. (cabrini green example). you have a wonderful way of reading more into a post than was intentioned. anyone who has watched a report on cabrini green knows it isn't even safe for the people living there, much less an outsider. i work with the public. most of my jobs have been working with the public. i have more problems and trouble with white teenage boys than any other age, or group. i now have an intense distrust of white teenage boys. i'm white by the way. if i see a group of them anywhere i am going to be very watchful of them. maybe that's wrong, but i respond to how i have been treated. that's just the way it is. i'm sure i am not the only one.

I'm pretty sure that the Chicago Housing Authority does not go out of it's way to segregate the low-income population into housing projects by race. The only consistant is low income. I did not read racist intentions into Uper's post, and if you did maybe you have the wrong perspective.

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but i respond to how i have been treated.  that's just the way it is.  i'm sure i am not the only one.

That's right. And as geocachers we have to remember that because we need to remember how we're really treating others.

 

Watching those people around you carefully? That's fine. They're going to wonder why and they're going to act differently as a result. They may end up behaving in a manner that causes you to become even more suspicious of them, because they suddenly take a much greater interest in you.

 

Unfortunately that's what many people don't want. Both as geocachers and as people out having a good time. They don't want someone else to take a greater interest in them. It makes them uncomfortable.

 

People here don't like being treated as possible terrorist or criminals (no offense meant criminal). They want the right to go out in the park and enjoy their harmless hobby of choice without being viewed with suspicion. The simple truth is no one else wants to be viewed with suspicion either. They also don't like being insulted.

 

So maybe we need to find a way of being aware without viewing others with suspicion or thinking of them as snakes that walk on two legs.

Edited by bons
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My apologies. Apparently it is within forum guidelines to insult anyone as long as they are a non-member and not here to defend themselves.

 

Remember, people who watch you are "snakes". Don't trust them. You should be careful by watching them as well. Watching them doesn't make you a snake. That's because you're the good guy. You can tell you're the good guy because good guys watch people, judge them, and tell everyone else how bad the bad people are just in case the bad people didn't actually do anything bad this time.

 

This message has been brought to you by the American Association of Law Enforcement Officers. "To protect, serve, and get away with behavior we wouldn't tolerate if it was done to us."

Thanks Bons, I had always wondered how to determine the "good" guys from the "bad".

sheesh!  lighten up francis.  it's not an insult unless it's done to their face.

Oh, so I'm allowed to insult you just because this is "over the computer" and not "to your face"? Puh-leeze! If you can't say something nice, don't say it at all. it doesn't matter if they're around to hear you. An insult is an insult regardless of who hears you.

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I'm pretty sure that the Chicago Housing Authority does not go out of it's way to segregate the low-income population into housing projects by race. The only consistant is low income. I did not read racist intentions into Uper's post, and if you did maybe you have the wrong perspective.

You're right. It's wrong to treat someone differently because they're of a different race. Now are you telling me it's right to treat someone differently because they're of a different income level? Or am I reading something else into what you're saying?

 

Maybe it's just wrong to treat people differently. Maybe people from cabrini green should be treated just like you and I want to be treated.

 

I wonder if we could learn to do just that.

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I'm pretty sure that the Chicago Housing Authority does not go out of it's way to segregate the low-income population into housing projects by race.  The only consistant is low income.  I did not read racist intentions into Uper's post, and if you did maybe you have the wrong perspective.

You're right. It's wrong to treat someone differently because they're of a different race. Now are you telling me it's right to treat someone differently because they're of a different income level? Or am I reading something else into what you're saying?

 

Maybe it's just wrong to treat people differently. Maybe people from cabrini green should be treated just like you and I want to be treated.

 

I wonder if we could learn to do just that.

No, you said the comment was racist. I never said anything about how to treat anyone. I simply stated that the only common among the residents of the housing projects is low income. You seem to read much more into other's comments.

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I went out caching for the 1st time in a long time and had 2 encounters that made me rethink my choices.

 

The 1st was with a group of Teenagers in the Parking lot of a park.  Now I'm not someone that thinks every teenager is up to no good, but I'm also not a head in the sand kind of guy. 

It was really a "you had to be there" situation, but lets just say that the interest they took in me was a bit unsettling. I could almost chalk it up to paranoia except for the fact that they left the area after I walked down the trail a ways and kept watch on them (I could see they were watching me).  I was wearing a shirt that I had gotten from a K9 Nationals competition (it has a shefiff's star on front and a K9 on back with some large writing about K9 Nationals).  I won't swear this has anything to do with it but people tend to see what they want to see (or are afraid of seeing).  I've been too long involved with law enforcement (disclaimer: I am not an officer) too long and have learned I have a pretty good eye for bad potential.

I only bring this type of thing up to hopefully remind people to be aware your surrounding before you leave to go cache hunting.  Finding a cache is hardly worth dealing with insurance for a stolen or vandalized car.  :lol:

 

Now for the normal types of snake.  I had a little fella remind me that I really need to watch where I'm putting my feet.  I was only doing caches in an urban setting and was not dressed to deal with snakes (shorts and tennis shoes).  The little guy was kind enough to jump in creek before I did and we stared at each other for a while.  I'm was thinking it was a copperhead at 1st but I wouldn't rule out a young rattler.  :blink:

 

So today I got 2 pretty rude awakenings.  I will be rethinking my caching stratagies before my next outing.

 

Be safe out there people (and trust your instincts).  ;)

Since my original post has stirred the pot in ways I never intended I wanna bring some quotes out from my original post.

 

Now I'm not someone that thinks every teenager is up to no good, but I'm also not a head in the sand kind of guy. 
You will notice I'm not condeming ALL teenagers as a group.

 

It was really a "you had to be there" situation, but lets just say that the interest they took in me was a bit unsettling.
See, I'm basically saying I can't exactly describe why I felt that way... thus "you had to be there".

 

I only bring this type of thing up to hopefully remind people to be aware your surrounding before you leave to go cache hunting.  Finding a cache is hardly worth dealing with insurance for a stolen or vandalized car.
I don't think I can explain this much better... did I say you can't go caching or you have to call 911 because of something like this.... uhmmm, no.

 

I am well aware of what people are probably thinking of me when I'm doing a cache near a park, but that's OK with me... because all those wary eyes help ensure the safety of the kids. I don't begrudge those people their opinions and I doubt any of you would go preach to these mothers (and fathers) about how safe unknown people are (if you by chance overheard them discussing it).

 

I see a lot of post about "pickle parks" and the people that visit them, "pervs"... don't see the crusaders for justice attacking the people making those remarks... I don't see people rallying to defense of an "publicly accused" perv, but I COULD assume that homophobia is PC for this group (I don't think that by the way... I'm not that dense). Or maybe I could assume that you look at the number of my post and think that I'm new enough to this game or board even that you can nitpick me because I don't have my own little following of people and I would be an easy target for your suppressed rage.

 

Heck, did anyone ever ask for a little more detail before going over the top? No... you made assumptions when you could have made inquiries. No one asked what the layout of the park vs parkinglot was like or where I was when I decided to stop and watch what was going on.

 

Did I advocate calling the cops on anyone you find suspicious? Did say that you shouldn't go caching unarmed because of all the "bad" people out there? I said...

I only bring this type of thing up to hopefully remind people to be aware your surrounding before you leave to go cache hunting.

 

Now... as for the thread title... maybe this clouded peoples judgement before they even read the entire post... I was really trying to think of way to address both incidents and decided to go with the Snakes analogy. Well... Mea copa, mea copa, mea maxima copa :tongue:

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Ok, less socioeconomic then...

 

Don't feel like a jerk if you observe and then discover the group you watched were completely innocent. You haven't hurt them, and it's good that all is well.

 

We've been intently observed while geocaching by parents of children playing nearby. Didn't hurt us. They were just being careful.

 

I agree with being observant and trusting your instincts. We opted out of a geocache recently. As we drove down the road leading to the trail it was on, we started noticing shattered windshield glass along the roadside. Then we passed a parked car with shattered windows that had been stripped. Opted not to park and search.

 

I've seen several snakes while geocaching already. They are always slithering away from me as quickly as they can go!

Edited by Blipple
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My apologies. Apparently it is within forum guidelines to insult anyone as long as they are a non-member and not here to defend themselves.

 

Remember, people who watch you are "snakes". Don't trust them. You should be careful by watching them as well. Watching them doesn't make you a snake. That's because you're the good guy. You can tell you're the good guy because good guys watch people, judge them, and tell everyone else how bad the bad people are just in case the bad people didn't actually do anything bad this time.

 

This message has been brought to you by the American Association of Law Enforcement Officers. "To protect, serve, and get away with behavior we wouldn't tolerate if it was done to us."

Thanks Bons, I had always wondered how to determine the "good" guys from the "bad".

sheesh!  lighten up francis.  it's not an insult unless it's done to their face.

Oh, so I'm allowed to insult you just because this is "over the computer" and not "to your face"? Puh-leeze! If you can't say something nice, don't say it at all. it doesn't matter if they're around to hear you. An insult is an insult regardless of who hears you.

if you insult me "over the computer" it is an insult. it's directed at me. the OP didn't make an insulting comment about them. he just expressed his opinion. if i make a negative comment about something here it's my opinion, not an insult. now if i were to say i didn't trust little blue saxophone playing, 3 apple high creatures it would be an insult. i have yet to have trouble with them, :tongue: so i will just use the same caution i do with anyone. if they want to view this 48 year old horizontally enhanced woman with caution it won't bother me. expressing an opinion here is not an insult. at least it isn't in my book, and that's the one i read.

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I agree with being observant and trusting your instincts. We opted out of a geocache recently. As we drove down the road leading to the trail it was on, we started noticing shattered windshield glass along the roadside. Then we passed a parked car with shattered windows that had been stripped. Opted not to park and search.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with keeping your antenna up and being aware of your surroundings. If something doesn't feel right, or you if just don't like the look of someone you see by the trailhead, or your car, or anywhere it's not a crime to turn around. Most of us have developed our instincts over time and have a good idea when a situation might become unpleasant, or dangerous.

 

You're in a remote section of a park and encounter a dad and his kids, you wouldn't give it a second thought. If you encountered 3-4 teens in hooded sweatshirts, baggy pants and Air Jordans, in the same place its natural to view them with suspicion.

 

You're on a trail and pass a middle aged female, your internal warning meter probably won't budge. If, under the same circumstances you pass an unkempt, unshaven middle age man, without a full set of teeth, you will probably be checking over your shoulder to make sure he keeps going.

 

I often pass others on backpacking trips and we'll exchange pleasantries.Often they'll ask where I'm headed and I'll answer with a general "we're going to xxxx mountain, or yyyyy river" and be on my way. Once I passed a guy (kind of like the one I described above) and he seemed overly interested in where we were going, so I named a destination that was miles from where I was actually headed. Was I being paranoid? Maybe he was a nice guy who just wanted to make small talk. But I wasn't taking chances.

 

Can we be wrong? Of course. But most of us will err on the side of caution. Maybe the teens that we are suspicious of are a bunch of Eagle Scouts working on a community service project. Maybe the unkempt man is a college professor who enjoys wandering around without regard to the way he looks. Maybe that personable, well dressed young man is the next Ted Bundy. But it's our right to make judgements when our personal safety may be at risk.

Edited by briansnat
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I agree with being observant and trusting your instincts. We opted out of a geocache recently. As we drove down the road leading to the trail it was on, we started noticing shattered windshield glass along the roadside. Then we passed a parked car with shattered windows that had been stripped. Opted not to park and search.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with keeping your antenna up and being aware of your surroundings. If something doesn't feel right, or you if just don't like the look of someone you see by the trailhead, or your car, or anywhere it's not a crime to turn around. Most of us have developed our instincts over time and have a good idea when a situation might become unpleasant, or dangerous.

 

You're in a remote section of a park and encounter a dad and his kids, you wouldn't give it a second thought. If you encountered 3-4 teens in hooded sweatshirts, baggy pants and Air Jordans, in he same place its natural to view them with suspicion.

 

You're on a trail and pass a middle aged female, your internal warning meter probably won't budge. If, under the same circumstances you pass an unkempt, unshaven middle age man, without a full set of teeth, you will probably be checking over your shoulder to make sure he keeps going.

 

I often pass others on backpacking trips and we'll exchange pleasantries.Often they'll ask where I'm headed and I'll answer with a general "we're going to xxxx mountain, or yyyyy river" and be on my way. Once I passed a guy (kind of like the one I described above) and he seemed overly interested in where we were going, so I named a destination that was miles from where I was actually headed. Was I being paranoid? Maybe he was a nice guy who just wanted to make small talk. But I wasn't taking chances.

 

Can we be wrong? Of course. But most of us will err on the side of caution. Maybe the teens that we are suspicious of are a bunch of Eagle Scouts working on a community service project. Maybe the unkempt man is a college professor who enjoys wandering around without regard to the way he looks. Maybe that personable, well dressed young man is the next Ted Bundy. But it's our right to make judgements when our personal safety may be at risk.

best answer in this thread yet.

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You're on a trail and pass a  middle aged female,  your internal warning meter probably won't budge.  If,  under the same circumstances you pass an unkempt, unshaven middle age man,  without a full set of teeth ...

What happens if the middle aged female is missing most of her teeth? Do you look over your shoulders? :tongue:

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What happens if the middle aged female is missing most of her teeth?  Do you look over your shoulders?  :tongue:

That's depends on your point of view .... wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean? ;):P:lol:

 

Sorry couldn't resist :blink: Dang.. I'm helping derail my own topic.

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What happens if the middle aged female is missing most of her teeth?  Do you look over your shoulders?  :blink:

That's depends on your point of view .... wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean? :P:D;)

 

Sorry couldn't resist :lol: Dang.. I'm helping derail my own topic.

Off Topic: It's Okay real conversations take little side paths to.

 

On Topic: Uh sorry I don't have anything to say on-topic.

 

:tongue:

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There is nothing wrong with keeping your antenna up and being aware of your surroundings. If something doesn't feel right, or you if just don't like the look of someone you see by the trailhead, or your car, or anywhere it's not a crime to turn around. Most of us have developed our instincts over time and have a good idea when a situation might become unpleasant, or dangerous.

 

You're in a remote section of a park and encounter a dad and his kids, you wouldn't give it a second thought. If you encountered 3-4 teens in hooded sweatshirts, baggy pants and Air Jordans, in he same place its natural to view them with suspicion.

 

You're on a trail and pass a middle aged female, your internal warning meter probably won't budge. If, under the same circumstances you pass an unkempt, unshaven middle age man, without a full set of teeth, you will probably be checking over your shoulder to make sure he keeps going.

 

I often pass others on backpacking trips and we'll exchange pleasantries.Often they'll ask where I'm headed and I'll answer with a general "we're going to xxxx mountain, or yyyyy river" and be on my way. Once I passed a guy (kind of like the one I described above) and he seemed overly interested in where we were going, so I named a destination that was miles from where I was actually headed. Was I being paranoid? Maybe he was a nice guy who just wanted to make small talk. But I wasn't taking chances.

 

Can we be wrong? Of course. But most of us will err on the side of caution. Maybe the teens that we are suspicious of are a bunch of Eagle Scouts working on a community service project. Maybe the unkempt man is a college professor who enjoys wandering around without regard to the way he looks. Maybe that personable, well dressed young man is the next Ted Bundy. But it's our right to make judgements when our personal safety may be at risk.

I am so glad you came by today.....

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As a middle school and soon to be high school teacher, I've found that the kids I get unsettling vibes from are very often nudged off-kilter with a simple Hi! and direct eye contact. ;) It unnerves 'em to no end. :lol: Mostly they will move away from an authority figure (teacher, cop, adult) and pay you no more mind--if they're not up to something. Some will get a little smart-alecky and want to engage you on a topic that they expect will unnerve you. A nod and a turn on the heel usually settles that scenario.

 

Most kids, esp. teens, get a bad rap and I try to give 'em a chance first. The direct eye contact and a verbal Hello gives me a good idea what I'm going to be dealing with. But, I could tell you tales of menacing and threats, too, from kids who are out looking to "roll" anyone they come across. So, the point is as was pointed out at the start--keep yer head up and yer eyes moving and don't disengage yer brain.

 

Oh, and I've not yet come across a snake geocaching--well, except for the Viper cache here in Colorado. I won't even start about the dozens we have in our backyard. If I need a reminder to not put my hand in dark space, all I have to do is go out to the compost pile and lift the tarp!

 

Cache on, folks!

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I have also had experiences with snakes (of the human persuasion) along the trail. (This is not related to caching, but still burns me up).

 

Over the weekend me, my brothers, my dad, and a couple of my dad's friends went ATVing up a local canyon. We got there at about 9am and started up the canyon. A ways up the canyon there is a small camping ground, when we got there we decided to take a drive through it, just for the heck of it. We rode through quietly and slowly, so as not to make a racket. As we went in I noticed a group of people (looked late teens to early 20s), as we passed they sort of scowled at us, but I though nothing of it and we continued through the camping grounds and went back to the road. After we got to the road we stopped just above the camping ground so we could walk to a ridge with a great view of the canyon, just a couple minutes from the road. So we went to check out the view and then returned to our ATVs. When we got back my dad noticed that his gas cap was missing! I am certain that it was those teens who scowled at us, probably mad that we woke them before 3pm. Only if I had been certain of this I would not had hesitated to ride up to them and give 'em all a good dusting.

 

Luckily I had an emergency poncho with me. My dad cut a piece off and tied it on to where the gas cap would have gone. We then proceeded up the canyon.

 

On our way back down we decided to take another ride through the camp to see if maybe whoever took the cap left it there, or something. No such luck there, but about half way through the camp we saw a bronze SUV driving up the path (this is the same SUV that was with the people who scowled at us), so we all pulled over to let it pass. As it passed me, though, one the the people in the SUV gave me this real ugly look and threw a cheeto at me! At this point I'm certain that these must be the people who stole our gas cap.

 

I know that this really shouldn't bother me, but still, it really burns me up. ;)

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I have also had experiences with snakes (of the human persuasion) along the trail.  (This is not related to caching, but still burns me up).

 

Over the weekend me, my brothers, my dad, and a couple of my dad's friends went ATVing up a local canyon.  We got there at about 9am and started up the canyon.  A ways up the canyon there is a small camping ground, when we got there we decided to take a drive through it, just for the heck of it.  We rode through quietly and slowly, so as not to make a racket.  As we went in I noticed a group of people (looked late teens to early 20s), as we passed they sort of scowled at us, but I though nothing of it and we continued through the camping grounds and went back to the road.  After we got to the road we stopped just above the camping ground so we could walk to a ridge with a great view of the canyon, just a couple minutes from the road.  So we went to check out the view and then returned to our ATVs.  When we got back my dad noticed that his gas cap was missing!  I am certain that it was those teens who scowled at us, probably mad that we woke them before 3pm.  Only if I had been certain of this I would not had hesitated to ride up to them and give 'em all a good dusting.

 

Luckily I had an emergency poncho with me.  My dad cut a piece off and tied it on to where the gas cap would have gone.  We then proceeded up the canyon.

 

On our way back down we decided to take another ride through the camp to see if maybe whoever took the cap left it there, or something.  No such luck there, but about half way through the camp we saw a bronze SUV driving up the path (this is the same SUV that was with the people who scowled at us), so we all pulled over to let it pass.  As it passed me, though, one the the people in the SUV gave me this real ugly look and threw a cheeto at me!  At this point I'm certain that these must be the people who stole our gas cap.

 

I know that this really shouldn't bother me, but still, it really burns me up. ;)

You are to trusting. I would have never let my ATV out of my sight. The only person I trust wholeheartedly is my dear ol mum. Everyone else I trust with varying degrees. But thats just me ...

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