Cache Security

[+Renegade Knight]

One idea for securing a cache is this. Post wrong coordinates. Put a symbol or note in your short cache description saying “You use encrypted coordinates” and then only email corrections out to people who email you though the GC.com email system.

 

You can’t stop random finds and if your local cache maggot is someone who logs finds or has an account you won’t stop them. But if they do their nefarious work anonymously they probably won’t break their silence. I'm not sure what to do about newbie accounts. Though newbies won't have much fun if they just hunt for missing caches and find the nothing that remains.

 

You can simplify this by having each person state their unique correction. Compile a list and only share it with trusted locals. All caches become offset or puzzle caches but that beats the alternate which is giving up on caching within a city limits.

[+clearpath]

hehehe ... you said, "cache maggot."

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I'd rather attach a tripwire

[+TeamK-9]

heh

 

Let's just submit a couple caches that don't exist, and then invite cache maggots to try to be FTF...

[WH]

This cache of mine would make it difficult for a "cache maggot" to muggle it anonymously.

[+Gorak]

One idea for securing a cache is this.  Post wrong coordinates. Put a symbol or note in your short cache description saying “You use encrypted coordinates” and then only email corrections out to people who email you though the GC.com email system.

A local cacher did that exact same thing not too long ago. In fact, he changed the caches to Members Only and required you to email him for the proper coordinates. It didn't take long for him to change them back as virtually nobody went looking for them.

 

Around here we call those kinds of caches Zuukini caches.

[+MarcB]

This cache of mine would make it difficult for a "cache maggot" to muggle it anonymously.

You've right there! Anyone who trashes that has a serious problem!

MarcB

[+briansnat]

I did that to one of my caches when there was a pirate operating in the area. The posted coordinates were a few hundred yards from the real cache and people had to e-mail me for the correct coordinates. I received exactly 1 request for coordinates in close to a year. Once I changed back to the correct coordinates, its had a few finds.

 

I guess people just don't want to be bothered e-mailing for coordinates.

[WH]

With my cache, the person doesnt have to send an email requesting coordinates. I send them automatically when I get the email notification of TB activity.

[+Renegade Knight]

I was thinking of a simplified version. A list. But it would take all the locals to make it work otherwise I'd be doing the same thing as BrianSnat and either opening it up for general business or having to pull all non remote caches.

[bnolan]

My ideas for slowing down the cache maggots.

 

1. Same idea as mentioned above, make them email for exact location

 

2. Make them all 5 / 5 's

 

3. Put the cache in my own yard right in front of a window

 

4. Ask TPTB to make is so that you can't view a cache page ( or at least not be able to see the coordinates ) until you register. At least that way there would be some kind of record of who was viewing the pages of caches that disappear.

 

5. Hide it at the front desk of a police station.

 

That's about all I can think of. To me, the trinkets in the cache are for the kids. When somebody steals from a kid, it makes me very angry. I pray that if I ever find out who has been stealing the local caches, I have the presence of mind to let him off with a verbal accosting.

[CoyoteRed]

Here's another idea, I don't know how workable it is.

 

Reduce the open-to-the-public coords to minutes only. This would make the search area quite large and certainly thwart the less sophisticated maggot. But it would also allow new visitors to see the number of caches around them. They can view logs and most of everything else. Maps and such will not show--instead use a graphic detailing that maps will show when signed in and have it clickable to example maps.

 

Use "xxx" to replace the decimal place numbers in the coords and have it clickable and linked to a page explaining why it is so.

 

Allow owners to designate any of their own as "beginner caches" where they are open to the public. This will allow newcomers to hunt a few example caches before signing up. I know there are plenty of cache designated as beginner caches around here already.

 

Next stage in the scheme would be to allow you to designate your cache at a stage between signed in and MOC. This stage is defined as the cacher must have found at least 10 physical caches, has been a member for at least one month, and has a valid ISP email account on file. (The last part, while difficult, is workable.) I think that 99.99% of all cachers can meet those requirements.

 

While this is not a perfect scheme and I can see how a very determined maggot can get around it, I think it would stop the vast major of them that aren't members of our ranks. Those you have little defense against.

[+briansnat]

Then there is the Louisville Slugger cache. You place a cache, get a few buds and hide in the bushes with baseball bats. When the thief comes along...batting practice!

Edited May 6, 2004 by briansnat

[Find Now, Log Later?]

I did that to one of my caches when there was a pirate operating in the area. The posted coordinates were a few hundred yards from the real cache and people had to e-mail me for the correct coordinates. I received exactly 1 request for coordinates in close to a year. Once I changed back to the correct coordinates, its had a few finds.

 

I guess people just don't want to be bothered e-mailing for coordinates.

Which cache was that? I don't recall seeing it. I agree that most people wouldn't bother to e-mail someone for coordinates ... there are "plenty of fish in the sea."

[Find Now, Log Later?]

One idea for securing a cache is this.  Post wrong coordinates. Put a symbol or note in your short cache description saying “You use encrypted coordinates” and then only email corrections out to people who email you though the GC.com email system.

MOCs were created to address this issue. There is an audit trail to see who visited the page. There is/was also a fault in the system that allows people who use PQs to access MOC information without being added to the audit trail. That fault needs to be addressed, if it hasn't already. (Many people have been enticed to purchase memberships specifically for this feature, so it should do what it is advertised to do.) While the audit trail doesn't provide real security, it does narrow down the list of suspects quite nicely.

 

TPTB have stated many times that their basic concept of the game is an "open concept" where membership is not required and most information is freely available to the general public. To borrow a "solution" we see offered in these forums so very often, anyone who doesn't agree with that most basic concept should feel free to create their own website and do things their way.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[+briansnat]

Which cache was that?

 

Becker V2.0

[+CharlieP]

A few suggestions:

 

Don't put anything valuable in a cache - this encourages thieves.

 

Make the cache a bit challenging, either physically, mentally, or both. Thieves and other cache maggots are usually lazy, stupid ... or both.

 

If the cache is in a public place where it could be found by a non-cacher, hide it aggressively, and then give a very specific hint on the cache page so that geocachers have a reasonable chance of finding it quickly, without drawing attention from non-cachers in the area.

 

Don't hide caches in very public places where it is generally impossible to retrieve it without being observed.

 

I like the Louisville Slugger approach too.

[+Stem]

Here's another idea, I don't know how workable it is.

 

Reduce the open-to-the-public coords to minutes only.  This would make the search area quite large and certainly thwart the less sophisticated maggot.  But it would also allow new visitors to see the number of caches around them.  They can view logs and most of everything else.  Maps and such will not show--instead use a graphic detailing that maps will show when signed in and have it clickable to example maps.

 

Use "xxx" to replace the decimal place numbers in the coords and have it clickable and linked to a page explaining why it is so.

 

Allow owners to designate any of their own as "beginner caches" where they are open to the public.  This will allow newcomers to hunt a few example caches before signing up.  I know there are plenty of cache designated as beginner caches around here already.

 

Next stage in the scheme would be to allow you to designate your cache at a stage between signed in and MOC.  This stage is defined as the cacher must have found at least 10 physical caches, has been a member for at least one month, and has a valid ISP email account on file.  (The last part, while difficult, is workable.)  I think that 99.99% of all cachers can meet those requirements.

 

While this is not a perfect scheme and I can see how a very determined maggot can get around it, I think it would stop the vast major of them that aren't members of our ranks.  Those you have little defense against.

I like this idea, and think it has some merit. Beginners caches would be a good idea, because if a noob jumps in w/o checking details, they could hunt a 5/5 for their first find w/o knowing it. That probably will end up with a DNF and an uninspiring beginning for them. One problem that would need to be made clear to people, is that you need the full coords to make the search plausible. If a noob doesn't realize this, and goes hunting w/o the full coords, again a DNF and unhappy soon to be ex geocacher

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Then we could institute a "Pay per decimal place" system:

 

N 35 12.ABC

W106 37.ABC

 

$1 a month for A

$2 a month for A and B

$3 a month for A, B, and C

 

[Find Now, Log Later?]

Then we could institute a "Pay per decimal place" system:

 

N 35 12.ABC

W106 37.ABC

 

$1 a month for A

$2 a month for A and B

$3 a month for A, B, and C

Well, I suppose that's one way to guarantee that another of the geocache listing services would enjoy a huge surge in popularity.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[+PandyBat]

I still don't understand the reasoning behind not making people at least register before getting the co-ords from a cache page. There are tons of sites on the internet that don't allow access to certain parts of their site until a person registers. Also, there are tons of sites that keep track of IP addresses to weed out the sock puppet accounts, etc.

 

But seeing as how its a little too late to do it now since the site has been opened up like this since the beginning, I'm wasting my time just talking about it.....lol Nevermind me....I'm just rambling.

[CoyoteRed]

I know there have been plenty of times where I've gone to a site and was required to sign up before using even the most basic part of the site and I never do.

 

A commercial site--which this site is--doesn't want to limit the custoemr base. A true hobbyist site wouldn't have a problem with limiting membership.

[+Sparky-Watts]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: claymore mines.

[+Seamus]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:  claymore mines.

Oh my god! That's horrible! How could you think of such...

Huh?

Oh, MINES!

 

I thought you said "claymore mimes".

 

Heh. Nevermind, then. Carry on.

[+Sparky-Watts]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:  claymore mines.

Oh my god! That's horrible! How could you think of such...

Huh?

Oh, MINES!

 

I thought you said "claymore mimes".

 

Heh. Nevermind, then. Carry on.

You may be on to something there! Exploding Mimes!! If the mime itself isn't enough to drive them away, then the red mist following the explosion might be the trick!

[+bons]

Claymore mimes: Silent, but deadly.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Or just hide lame caches

[+Sparky-Watts]

Claymore mimes: Silent, but deadly.

[janx]

maybe this is why some people hide micros.

 

Some useful statistics would be:

 

How many geo-cachers are there on this site (have usernames, not Registered)?

 

How many users are registered (ie. payed GC.COM money)?

 

What % of caches go AWOL?

 

What % of urban caches go AWOL?

 

What % of long hike caches go AWOL?

 

This kind of info would tell you what your risks are on various cache types. Do pirates wreck the park-n-grabs only? Do they like hiking to the hard ones (figuring it'll ruin other people's day, having hiked that far for nothing)?

 

As someone else said, don't put valuable things in them. Don't make them too easy to find for muggles. And certainly don't fret if the cache dies. Just replace it and try again.