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I'm Getting Tired Of All The Whining

Eric K

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First off, I personally want to thank the people here at geocaching.com.


They probably get a little irked at everytime the read the messages in the forums it's a message with somebody complaining about they don't like this or don't like this and so on and so on.


This is a FREE site. You have the OPTION to pay. No one here is saying you must pay if you want to play.


From what I've seen the members don't really get much more than the free players. It's an option that geocaching gives you and they don't hold it against you if you don't donate.




With the number of users they have on this site it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have all the rules acceptable to everyone.


If the people at geocaching don't want us advertising other sites that is their choice. To sound corny this is America, if you don't like this site no one is stopping you from opening up your own website where you can run it the way you want to run it.


In closing, thanks to the people here at geocaching.com for having a useful and fun website. The other sight I would put in this same category is wheresgeorge.com.


They both have the same concept. "Our site is free, you can donate if you like but we won't punish you if you don't. Just please abide by our rules is all we ask"


With both sites I don't know if they are losing money, breaking even, or raking in the dough and to me it doesn't matter. That is their business, not mine.

Edited by Eric K
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Y'know what I like to do?




Honestly, I don't get the whining at all...it's a game...this is what I do to get RID of stress in my life not to add more to it.


Winter's just starting, if this is the beginning of seasonal depression around here look out!



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I agree. Thank-you to the MOD's and everyone else too. I do enjoy off topic discussions but if they don't like it then fine i'll live. I do think the MOD's can be heavy handed but hey thats life. I would like to see less censorship but if not oh well. I do really only come here for the humorous posts though, they go I go too. But no big deal I can as easily find some other website for my humor. I have had some posts censored that I didnt agree with but ya whatever, it's not like this is the ACLU (those weirdo's will argue for anything it seems :P ) If we dont like whats going on here then we shouldnt read or post or send money in. That's the best form of censorship me thinks. Or dont I could care less. :P

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As with anything, growth causes pain. We hear the whining, we hate the whining, and whine about the whining. I whine sometimes too.


The folks here are doing a great job. Jeremy and comapny have decided that this site is dedicated to Geocaching and Geocaching only, so they work at keeping things in that direction. You're right, the site is free unless you want to pay.


I know where we can get a WHOLE LOT of CHEESE!

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Free forums on a free site paid for by people who don't have to pay to play. Gotta love the irony.




It doesn't matter how you slice it. Geocaching sites are not free. If they are free they won't remain free. If they remain free the generous owner will die and the kids will pull the plug. The future of geocaching is written in these forums. Much of it is being called whining but its there if you know how to listen. As for the go somewhere else comment. It’s happening and those sites will go through all the issues goecaching.com has, will have, and is going through now.


The site that gets it right in the long run wins.

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This is a FREE site. You have the OPTION to pay. No one here is saying you must pay if you want to play.

Do you really believe this? Are you interested in some really great property I have for sale in south central Florida? Get real -- GC.com is making a profit by running this sport, not losing money. Yes we are getting great value for the small amount of money we invest (as premium members) or help the site to generate via advertising revenue. You sir are a client, as am I. Don't for-profit companies like to know what their customers want? Do they call it wining?

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That cracks me up. The forums are the place where the clients say what they want? Lets see the actual numbers. If I had to guess, I'd bet members who participate in these forums makeup an insignificant percentage of all registered GC.com users. And even within that insignificant percentage, there is very little agreement.


Much of the time, this forum reminds me of a self defeatist support group. A handful of people kick and scream and convince themselves they are majority. If you sit back and take a look, it can be rather amusing.


Thanks for the post Eric. I couldn't agree more with you.

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CacheCreatures, people like to point out the percentage of people who post when they are supporting their side of an argument. They usually imply that the silent majority are on their side or at least not on the opposing side. It’s not a good argument in general. It’s the people who do show up and duke it out that make the decisions.


As for the insignificant percentage who do participate, it's the people in the forums, and the people who make websites, and the people who stand apart from the masses who just want to cache who drive this RASH. A lot of these people have put their money where their mouth is and are working to change the sport for the better. Not everyone agrees on what for the better means, but time will tell.


My subscriptions dollars are at work here. In addition its member cache listings that make this site possible. You can bet I’m going to fight to make the site I’ve chosen to list and find caches with into something better than it is. People like Eric who started this thread seem to forget that everyone in the forums has chosen this as their geocaching site. That includes people on both sides of every debate and flame war in these forums.

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Renegade Knight,


True enough. I should have removed the hostile tone from my post. An attack is not what I was after.


But Eric does have a point that I agree with. Specifically, lets talk geocaching here and leave the philosophical debate out of the discussion.


When I signed up, I didn't read that this site was a democracy. I read that a structure was in place, and if I'd like to be a part of this society I'd have to adhere to that structure. No where did it say that anyone who takes part has a right to demand change.


It's just unfortunate that the forums have turned into a battle ground. But who knows. Maybe the battles will better the spot somehow.

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When I signed up, I didn't read that this site was a democracy. I read that a structure was in place, and if I'd like to be a part of this society I'd have to adhere to that structure. No where did it say that anyone who takes part has a right to demand change...

Half the wars are over getting a structure in place that we can understand.


I've got a cache in limbo for it's approval. Not because of a missing logbook, or because it's by a RR track. It's in limbo because I have chosen to not divulge the names of the people with whom I've made arrangments to maintain the cache. My annual trip to the area wasn't enough in my opinion to do the job right so I made arrangments. How was I supposed to know that protecting these peoples privacy would be the sticking point? Maybe the cache will ultimatly get approved maybe not. But it's not in the guidelines. Things like this happen a lot and they should happen a lot. This is a young sport. It's evolving. Who is in charge of that evolution? We are through our discourse and discord.


Some people see whining. I see this hobby is young and healthy. But I have to agree some people could present their case much better.

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Lets see the actual numbers. If I had to guess, I'd bet members who participate in these forums makeup an insignificant percentage of all registered GC.com users.

Yes that would be interesting. I have seen this stated over and over again. I am not real sure I buy into it. We have no idea what the numbers are. But I am not sure that just taking the total amount of people that have registered and then comparing that to the number that post in the forums is accurate.


How many of those registered are still around? How many of those registered are active? How many of those registered are sock puppets? Then lets compare that to the number that have paid dues to the number that post in the forums. And just because someone does not post does not mean they don't read the forums. Besides what does that matter. In the USA what is it about 10 percent (I'm guessing but I don't know that it is much higher than that) of those that are actually eligible to vote really do? And those people are making decisions that are a hell of a lot more important and affect more people than anything that is being done on any stupid website.

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Everyone is a "whiner"....


As far as the site being free and all...it depends on how you look at it. Of course the average joe does not have to "pay to play", but the site depends on those who do pay in one way or another. Whether it's the premium membership or buying a sticker to put on your cache, you are helping support the website. Unless Jeremy got a big inheritance and can foot the bill for eveything himself, everyone who buys something here helps support the site. The site is a business and just like any other business it depends on it's customers to keep on functioning. Of course people are going to complaikn, it's nature. As others stated, people complain about people who complain. Hence the title of this topic "I'm getting tired of All the Whining". That's a complaint or a whine as you would put it. Our best bet is to move on to the topics that interest us. Whether it's a complaint topic or not.

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Well as usual, every time I choose to open my eyes I learn something. You're right, this is a young sport. You're right, the numbers might be less compelling that I think, and even so, its a sort of mute point.


Perhaps presentation is everything. If the "whiny" argument was presented without the whiny-ness TPTB might be more willing to listen? In that light, do you think these boards are doing more harm that good? Meaning, even if someone has a great point, the disagreeable nature of the presentation might turn off the powers that might be listening?


I dunno. I for one, sincerely hope this sport flourishes, and that we posters don't end up shooting ourselves in the foot.

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Quite frankly I think Jeremy is completely out of his mind. He's either not all that bright or he really truly loves geocaching and believes this sport should remain free, or as free as possible. (just for the record I think the ladder is true) He could make a mandatory membership fee of $9.95 per month, start an advertising campaign in magazines and TV. (he could easily get the proper capital to do so) He would lose probably 25 - 30% of the players here, but gain another 50% through advertising and the continued snowball effect of word of mouth. He is sitting on an absolute gold mine. He's not getting rich now, he's making a living at best. (of coarse that statement is a presumption based on nothing. maybe he is getting rich) Anyway, my point is I agree with the topic starter, if you've been whining, stop whining and go cache. And if you choose go cache for $3 a month. Let me clarify that by saying, if you think you are a whiner than you are a whiner, if you don't then your not. :P

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