Gustaf Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Since the Groundspeak logo is protected by copyright laws, some of us think we need a public domain logo. View all the submitted logos here and choose your favorite. Quote
azog Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Gustaf #2 ---------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be also be like him. Quote
+Rusty & Libby Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Rusty... -------------------------------------------------- Friends don't let friends cache locationless! Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page Michigan Geocaching Organization Quote
+brdad Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 I like the Leatherman both for versatility, simplicity, and the "recognizability". However, I can't help that think there is a way to add the Leatherman to the Gustaf (and maybe most of the others) that would be awe-inspiring for web use or stickers, or other uses that can utilize the detail. Possibly if the GX was like a watermark type thing? (I don't have a watermark type thing button on my graphics software, so I couldn't try it ) We all have mental problems, it's just that some of us choose to show them. Quote
+worldtraveler Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 [Rant] Where would geocaching be without the strong foundation laid by Jeremy/Groundspeak at their own expense? And now that the investment might actually be showing a return, you want to siphon some of it off via a "public domain" logo? And you have the gall to discuss, design, and vote about it on a forum funded by the organization your actions are undermining? Have you no shame or sense of propriety? [/Rant] I will continue to show my gratitude to Jeremy and Groundspeak in a tangible way by purchasing the merchandise they offer and renewing my membership when it is due. I don't need "another" logo. Worldtraveler Quote
dboggny Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler: I will continue to show my gratitude to Jeremy and Groundspeak in a tangible way by purchasing the merchandise they offer and renewing my membership when it is due. I don't need "another" logo. Worldtraveler point taken. just to let you know, even though i have my own logo now, i will also still renew my membership when it is due. i will still pick up geocaching.com gear (especially for xmass). i will still be thankfull to Jeremy and plug geocaching.com for his hard work (which i have done already). but now i can have my OWN logo to go along with the Groundspeak logo. SR and dboggny. Quote
+trippy1976 Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 I just got my orange geocaching.com hat today. I'll still buy merchandise from their site as well. The logo's not to belittle Jeremy's efforts at all. I'll pay my membership again when it comes due and I'm DERN close to buying one of those new shirts They came out the day after I placed my last order. Think I need to pace myself just a scosh -------- trippy1976 Quote
+Rusty & Libby Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Yep, Jeremy will continue to get my support too, but I still want a logo I can use freely. Rusty... -------------------------------------------------- Friends don't let friends cache locationless! Rusty & Libby's Geocache Page Michigan Geocaching Organization Quote
+The Leprechauns Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler:[Rant] Where would geocaching be without the strong foundation laid by Jeremy/Groundspeak at their own expense? And now that the investment might actually be showing a return, you want to siphon some of it off via a "public domain" logo? And you have the gall to discuss, design, and vote about it on a forum funded by the organization your actions are undermining? Have you no shame or sense of propriety? [/Rant] As the originator of the "Logo for the rest of us" thread, I take this criticism seriously. Look back at my original post and at Jeremy's several posts in that thread. I suggested the idea basically to keep people from trampling over Groundspeak's trademark logo. People wanted to customize, now with a public domain logo, they can. I'm sure many will find uses for both; for example, on opposite sides of a Geocoin. And Jeremy isn't too ruffled over the discussion of the logos, elsewise he woulda locked those threads a long time ago. The logo debate has taken place in the utmost spirit of community, and respect for Groundspeak and the hard work done by Jeremy et al. If I needed to receive a traffic ticket from a forum cop, I'd rather be pulled over by Officer dboggny. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- What would life be like if there were no hypothetical questions? Quote
Team Bohica Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 quote:Originally posted by The Leprechauns:And Jeremy isn't too ruffled over the discussion of the logos, elsewise he woulda locked those threads a long time ago. This is amazing to me, just amazing. Why should someone whose own site claims it 'was created with the sole purpose to promote the new sport of Geocaching' try to squelch a legitimate discussion of the same? Geocaching is supposedly 'our' sport but we have to worry about whether we will offend one person who will effectively 'ban' us from discussing that sport? Does noone else see the problem with that? People having their own logo they can use as they see fit only helps the sport and right now what helps the sport helps Jeremy. I've already got a tshirt with that PD logo. I'll probably just start ignoring the forums and hope that things stay the same and my worries are unfounded. I'll keep supporting Groundspeak with my money and use their services until then. The Bohican -- Welcome to nowhere.nu. Now go home! Quote
+worldtraveler Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by The Leprechauns:...The logo debate has taken place in the utmost spirit of community, and respect for Groundspeak and the hard work done by Jeremy et al... But even assuming all was done with the best of intentions, the inevitable results such as this are a direct attack on the profitability of Groundspeak. And just because Jeremy has magnanimously permitted the discussion on these forums does not mean it is right or appropriate to do so. Would you consider it appropriate to use a forum funded by Garmin as a communication medium for developing a competing GPS receiver? Worldtraveler Quote
+brdad Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler:Nice words... The posting of these threads have nothing to do with competition. If we were voting on a logo for a new upcoming geocaching site, then that would be totally different. That type of discussion would be totally out of line on these forums. Your analogy is off. What we are doing is more like using the Garmin forums to decide on a logo for GPS's in general, so that if we wanted to make a sign depicting a GPS, we could do so without worrying about infringing on Garmin's copyright. Obviously, the letters "GPS" do this as well or better than a logo could, so there is no need for it. However, it would be nice to have a logo which would indicate geocaching as geocaching, and not geocaching.com. And the way I see it, with a public domain logo, more people may make use of it since they no longer have to worry about copyright problems with the Groundspeak logo, which will advertise the sport as a whole. Then when some stanger asks what the logo is, where is that geocacher going to send that person? More than likely it will be to geocaching.com - which in turn will help Groundspeak's profitability. We all have mental problems, it's just that some of us choose to show them. Quote
+trippy1976 Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 It's up to each person to decide if they are going to buy from people like this. Personally, I won't. My money will be spent at stores that benefit Geocaching.com or my state's group, etc. I'm not going to support anyone's mission to get themselves a new GPS V. But I'm more than willing (if I like the stuff) to purchase something that will help keep this site open or help fund area activities and event caches. It's not clear to me where the monies raised at the site you reference are going. I suspect straight into the pocket of the person who opened the site and at some level I resent that. I agree with The Leprechauns, this discussion and its result was in the utmost spirit of community. I felt as if everyone understood that, but to me this shop and the others like it that I have seen were not opened in that same spirit. So I will not support them. But I won't argue their right to do it. Just because it's legal - doesn't make it right. quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler:But even assuming all was done with the best of intentions, the inevitable results such as http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=geocachingpd are a direct attack on the profitability of Groundspeak. -------- trippy1976 Quote
+headmj Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 I really like the two items noted above. The leatherman one is cool but the C disappears. The C is ckearky readble in both of the variants above. Quote
+geospotter Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by trippy1976: I agree with The Leprechauns, this discussion and its result was in the utmost spirit of community. I felt as if everyone understood that, but to me this shop and the others like it that I have seen were not opened in that same spirit. Whoa! Wait a minute! You can't have it both ways! You say "Public Domain" and it's free and open to use as anyone sees fit. Whether it's in the "spirit" you intended or not, whether it's related to geocaching or not, and whether or not you like where the profits end up. Quote
+Centaur Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler: But even assuming all was done with the best of intentions, the inevitable results such as http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=geocachingpd are a direct attack on the profitability of Groundspeak. *chuckle* its not even a good copy of the logo... But seriously, please provide documentation on your statement that its a "direct attack on the profitability of Groundspeak." You work for them? You keep their books or do their business plan? Just courious. As a total outsider (other then being a geocacher) I dont see the connection. Now, if you were to say someone might purchase a generic geocaching shirt and then not buy a Groundspeak branded shirt, well then, I would say "Thats life, consumers choice. You get what you pay for." Still does not mean Groundspeak is any less/more/netural profitable. Just means someone goes about wearing a teeshirt with a (poorly done) GX logo on it. [This message was edited by Centaur on October 13, 2002 at 04:41 PM.] Quote
+cachew nut Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 I like the logo and the shirts but won't buy any of them unless it didn't have the word geocaching on it. Personal preference only, no other undertones. However, I'm wondering if Skydiver is testing the waters when Jeremy said not to worry about the word geocaching. Maybe I'll cafepress my own version Quote
Team Bohica Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by trippy1976:It's not clear to me where the monies raised at the site you reference are going. I suspect straight into the pocket of the person who opened the site and at some level I resent that. I agree with The Leprechauns, this discussion and its result was in the utmost spirit of community. I felt as if everyone understood that, but to me this shop and the others like it that I have seen were not opened in that same spirit. So I will not support them. But I won't argue their right to do it. Just because it's legal - doesn't make it right. Now this I don't understand. Only geocaching.com has a 'right' to make money off of geocaching? Is that what you're saying? You say you're not clear where the monies are going. Do you know where all the money Jeremy takes in goes? I don't see any claims of donating any money to anyone. Personally, I don't care. It's his to do with as he pleases. Remember, geocaching.com is _not_ geocaching. It has no inherent 'right' to be the only one to make money off of it. Geocaching does not 'belong' to Groundspeak. It belongs to the people who participate in the sport. Are you angry at GPSr manufacturers for making money off GPSrs that are neccesary to the hobby? I assume you bought your GPS through Groundspeak's link? If you don't like someone's product, don't buy it, it's that simple. But don't say someone else trying to make a living is wrong. I'm not against Jeremy, or anyone else, making money off geocaching but why should he be the only one? Because he has the biggest site around? Because he's cute? I don't understand... The Bohican -- Welcome to nowhere.nu. Now go home! Quote
+Nurse Dave Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 My question is why isn't geocaching.com selling all these products? With the number of people comming to this site I think they are just losing money not having coffee mugs and such. So there is someone else offering more variety. I want a sweatshirt with the logo in the corner. Can't get it here, but he's selling a version. I'm not going to buy one from him, but I wish I could from Jeremy. On a side note there's this company here named Nike that has it shirts all over the place. How is Jeremy supposed to move his product with this nike stuff taking all the rack space? ---Real men cache in shorts. Quote
+trippy1976 Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 Way to quote out of context. quote:Also from trippy: It's up to each person to decide if they are going to buy from people like this. Personally, I won't. My money will be spent at stores that benefit Geocaching.com or my state's group, etc. I'm not going to support anyone's mission to get themselves a new GPS V. I never said anywhere they couldn't. It's public domain so anyone doing so is within their rights, I just think the spirit of the conversation and graphic is violated when it's used for personal gain and I won't be party to it. That's all I'm stating. Flame away if you feel you must. It's my opinion and I'm perfectly entitled to it. Want to go buy his stuff? Fine. Want to set up a store just like it? Fine. I don't agree with its purpose and I don't like the items that are presented there. If I'm going to spend money on geocaching items - it's going to help a cause. And it's not going to be someone's cause to upgrade their GPS, it's going to be something that benefits some group that needs and depends on the help to provide services to their users and members. quote:Originally posted by geospotter: quote:Originally posted by trippy1976: I agree with The Leprechauns, this discussion and its result was in the utmost spirit of community. I felt as if everyone understood that, but to me this shop and the others like it that I have seen were not opened in that same spirit. Whoa! Wait a minute! You can't have it both ways! You say "Public Domain" and it's free and open to use as _anyone_ sees fit. Whether it's in the "spirit" you intended or not, whether it's related to geocaching or not, and whether or not you like where the profits end up. -------- trippy1976 Quote
+worldtraveler Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by brdad:...The posting of these threads have nothing to do with competition... I respectfully disagree. I believe it has everything to do with competition. Geocaching.com currently has the only universally recognized logo for geocaching and the sole right to market that logo for profit (100% market share). The inevitable result of developing another logo, whether intended by you personally or not, is that it will be marketed, thereby decreasing the market share of geocaching.com. That's why I assert that it's a direct attack on their profitability. My rant was not against developing the alternate logo or against competition, though I think it smacks of ingratitude in light of the willingness Jeremy has expressed in accomodating desires to use the logo for personal, non-profit purposes; rather it was against using the Groundspeak forums to develop a competing logo. Worldtraveler Quote
Rickfur Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 This whole thing could have been averted by the lawyers sticking to their word... As I last saw, minor modifications to the logo were okay, but out of the blue, the rules changed... The lawyers have the ability to allow the modifications that were presented, and subsequently approved. Something changed their mind... I had a very detailed and lengthy post regarding this but I'm not one to ruffle feathers, and I sure as hell don't want to start yet another flame war against *me* I'm just randomly ranting now but oh well... Contents Under Pressure... Quote
+st_richardson Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 How about a link to the logos so we can compare? Quote
Cache Canucks Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by worldtraveler:"...But even assuming all was done with the best of intentions, the inevitable results such as http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=geocachingpd are a direct attack on the profitability of Groundspeak..." ...if you look closely at the 'products'(?) being advertised, they're nothing more than digital mock-ups. A digital image of the GX logo (or a 'version' thereof) was simply super-imposed over photographs of 'blank stock' (shirts, sweatshirts and so on). Someone is clearly in a rush to 'cash in' on an opportunity to make a bit of pocket change ...as opposed to taking the time to bring quality products to market (rather the opposite of how the 'GeoCaching.com' store seems to operate). As was mentioned in an earlier forum, this is the price that's paid for the 'freedom' of a logo being in the public domain. Buyer beware... Quote
+El Diablo Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 I have been reading the fourms about the logo usage, and the problems that have been encountered. I just want to say that I have found it very easy to work with Groundspeak. You just have to follow the rules. You can create all the generic logos you want, but that is what they will always be...generic. Try modifiying the Nike logo to a generic and then market it...you won't find many buyers. Also name me one other company that will allow you to use their logo for personal use, modified or not. At least Groundspeak will allow you to use the logo for personal use, and if it's for profit they will work with you. Just an old farts two cents worth. Happy Geocaching! El Diablo Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse. Quote
+geospotter Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Nurse Dave & LKay:My question is why isn't geocaching.com selling all these products? With the number of people comming to this site I think they are just losing money not having coffee mugs and such. Um, actually, he does sell them. Look here. Quote
+Nurse Dave Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 Hey that's kewl. Must be new, I hadn't seen the link before. If they offer a sweatshirt I'm there. Thanks! ---Real men cache in shorts. Quote
+leatherman Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by geospotter: Um, actually, he does sell them. Where did you get this link? Preparation, the first law to survival. Mokita! Quote
+geospotter Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by trippy1976:Way to quote out of context. My intent was not to alter your message by quoting only a section. If I did then I apologize. I meant only to reply to that comment. I also didn't mean to direct it so fervently toward you. Please replace every instance of "you" with "we". My point is just that with PD you have NO control over its use. Your comment just gave me the opportunity to mention that (again). As to the rest of your message, I agree with you. My money will go to help those who brought this sport to my attention. Quote
+geospotter Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by leatherman: _Where did you get this link?_ _ If you go to Jeremy's gear page, read down the left side. It's there. Quote
+leatherman Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 Preparation, the first law to survival. Mokita! Quote
+cachew nut Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Nurse Dave & LKay:Hey that's kewl. Must be new, I hadn't seen the link before. actually, it's been here longer than you have Quote
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