Cheating

May 1, 2002

quote:
His logs must be deleted. Geocaching is a game, and like any game we have rules, and without rules there is no structure, and without structure there is no point. Our finds are our scores, they reveal accomplishments, triumphs, and hard work.....they are earned by all of us and therfore are more than just numbers...I say kick him out.....

-Sherlock=

Well said! I completely agree with you.

Philip

May 1, 2002

Regardless of what type of cache it is, if someone wants to cheat, they can (almost always). What does that prove?

I guess everyone has a unique agenda for this game/sport. For me, it is a great opportunity to go hiking with my kids (and usually some friends) and to hopefully find a little treasure along the way. If we can't find it - no big deal - we still had fun. If I find it, I log it as a find ... if I don't, I log as a didn't find. It seems so simple.

1.4k · May 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sherlockholmes:
His logs must be deleted. Geocaching is a game, and like any game we have rules, and without rules there is no structure, and without structure there is no point. Our finds are our scores, they reveal accomplishments, triumphs, and hard work.....they are earned by all of us and therfore are more than just numbers...I say kick him out.....

-Sherlock=

I deleted them. He reposted. I left a note above his post, stating that he had cheated. He edited his post to say derogatory things about my note. I deleted both his and my posts, emailed him (again!) and agreed to leave the logs as long as he stated in the logs that he had NOT actually visited the cache locations. I just got tired of playing games with the guy. He acknowledges he didn't do the caches the way they were intended, but feels since he followed the letter of the rules as stated on the cache page, it's ok to log them, regardless of intent. And since it didn't actually state on the cache page that you had to physically visit the cache...

I think he learned ethics from a certain former President...

1.4k · May 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sherlockholmes:
His logs must be deleted. Geocaching is a game, and like any game we have rules, and without rules there is no structure, and without structure there is no point. Our finds are our scores, they reveal accomplishments, triumphs, and hard work.....they are earned by all of us and therfore are more than just numbers...I say kick him out.....

-Sherlock=

I deleted them. He reposted. I left a note above his post, stating that he had cheated. He edited his post to say derogatory things about my note. I deleted both his and my posts, emailed him (again!) and agreed to leave the logs as long as he stated in the logs that he had NOT actually visited the cache locations. I just got tired of playing games with the guy. He acknowledges he didn't do the caches the way they were intended, but feels since he followed the letter of the rules as stated on the cache page, it's ok to log them, regardless of intent. And since it didn't actually state on the cache page that you had to physically visit the cache...

I think he learned ethics from a certain former President...

3k · May 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

I think he learned ethics from a certain former President...

Yeah, that Nixon was a skunk.

4.5k · May 1, 2002

If it makes the guy's day, big deal; let him enjoy it.

Alan

5k · May 1, 2002

Yeah...

It's apparent that folks have varying degrees of requirements for a find. I've seen countless logs that begin like this:

"We didn't find the cache, but we're logging this as a find because..."

And then some excuse. I wouldn't do that, but other people do. If I'm the owner of a cache with a log entry like that, I'd ask the person to change it to a or a . If they refused... um... I guess I'd let it go. If it made that person happy, then what else can you do.

Jamie

May 1, 2002

It may not be possible to catch every cheater, but some are obvious and their logs should be deleted. By definition (read the FAQs), a cache find requires physically going to the location. Looking up the answers on the internet may be fun and educational, and I wouldn't have a problem with someone logging a note to indicate that they had found the answer in that manner, but it should not be logged as a find unless they actually went there.

If this is not cheating, then why do these people lie in their logs by claiming or at least implying that they were there, instead of admitting the truth about how they got the answer?

I agree cache owners should be more careful with the proof that they require in order to prevent cheating, but that doesn't excuse cheaters when the proof is found on the internet either. That's like saying that it is okay to steal from someone's car if the doors were left unlocked.

4.5k · May 1, 2002

Cheating is a very serious matter. Justice should be met with penalties that meet the crime.

1st Offense - Immediate disabling of WASS feature

2nd Offense - No Deet during the height of the tick season.

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

4.5k · May 1, 2002

Cheating is a very serious matter. Justice should be met with penalties that meet the crime.

1st Offense - Immediate disabling of WASS feature

2nd Offense - No Deet during the height of the tick season.

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

May 1, 2002

I see what you mean, Web-ling. A real virtual tear! About 2/3 of their over 100 finds are virtuals, and half of their physical caches were found in the first month of their 6 months worth of finds. To each their own, I guess, but I'd get really bored with doing all my searches from a chair in front of my computer. Maybe if I was on bedrest? I notice that one D/FW virtual they have NOT logged is Smack the Ground. Maybe because I specifically tried to select verification questions that would require one to visit the spot? I couldn't find the answers online. Cache owners create the caches and lay out the guidelines. They decide what makes an acceptable find or not. If NOT, they are free to delete them. If I disagreed with a cache owner's treatment of my logs and couldn't change their mind, I'd log notes or not log at all. And if the quality of the cache hunts/sites weren't worth that, I'd just pass on them in the future.

T-storm

http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

May 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:
It may not be possible to catch every cheater, but some are obvious and their logs should be deleted. By definition (read the FAQs), a cache find requires physically going to the location. Looking up the answers on the internet may be fun and educational, and I wouldn't have a problem with someone logging a note to indicate that they had found the answer in that manner, but it should not be logged as a find unless they actually went there.

If this is not cheating, then why do these people lie in their logs by claiming or at least implying that they were there, instead of admitting the truth about how they got the answer?

I agree cache owners should be more careful with the proof that they require in order to prevent cheating, but that doesn't excuse cheaters when the proof is found on the internet either. That's like saying that it is okay to steal from someone's car if the doors were left unlocked.

GOOD GRIEF.....How can you possible say that logging a cache you didn't find is the same as stealing a car.

I was going to go put a few false logs on some of your caches. Can't do that cuz you don't have any. But as soon as you do the "cheater!" will strike.

May 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:
It may not be possible to catch every cheater, but some are obvious and their logs should be deleted. By definition (read the FAQs), a cache find requires physically going to the location. Looking up the answers on the internet may be fun and educational, and I wouldn't have a problem with someone logging a note to indicate that they had found the answer in that manner, but it should not be logged as a find unless they actually went there.

If this is not cheating, then why do these people lie in their logs by claiming or at least implying that they were there, instead of admitting the truth about how they got the answer?

I agree cache owners should be more careful with the proof that they require in order to prevent cheating, but that doesn't excuse cheaters when the proof is found on the internet either. That's like saying that it is okay to steal from someone's car if the doors were left unlocked.

GOOD GRIEF.....How can you possible say that logging a cache you didn't find is the same as stealing a car.

I was going to go put a few false logs on some of your caches. Can't do that cuz you don't have any. But as soon as you do the "cheater!" will strike.

4.5k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

Sorry. Wrong address. The correct link is lostoutdoors.com which is a actually really great site for 1:24,000 topos and aerials maps provided with the hard work of jfitzpat Everyone could be "taught a lesson" there, not just "violators".

Alan

4.5k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

Sorry. Wrong address. The correct link is lostoutdoors.com which is a actually really great site for 1:24,000 topos and aerials maps provided with the hard work of jfitzpat Everyone could be "taught a lesson" there, not just "violators".

Alan

20.7k · May 2, 2002

My old scout leader used to say that 'maturity means playing by the rules even when there are no rules'.

May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cheater!:

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:
That's like saying that it is okay to steal from someone's car if the doors were left unlocked.

GOOD GRIEF.....How can you possible say that logging a cache you didn't find is the same as stealing a car.

I had seen nowhere in Geo Leo's post about stealing a car...

Oh, and by the way. Did you make up this account to replay to this post???

"My gps say's it RIGHT HERE".

http://www.geogadgets.com

12 caches in 12 hours.

May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Steak N Eggs:

quote:
Originally posted by cheater!:

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:
That's like saying that it is okay to steal from someone's car if the doors were left unlocked.

GOOD GRIEF.....How can you possible say that logging a cache you didn't find is the same as stealing a car.

I had seen nowhere in Geo Leo's post about stealing a car...

Oh, and by the way. Did you make up this account to replay to this post???

"My gps say's it RIGHT HERE".

http://www.geogadgets.com

12 caches in 12 hours.

Quotes above are taken directly with no alterations. Read the last sentence of Geo Leo's post.

Answer to last question 5th...

1.1k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:

That's like saying that it is okay to steal from someone's car if the doors were left unlocked.

quote:
Originally posted by cheater!:

GOOD GRIEF.....How can you possible say that logging a cache you didn't find is the same as stealing a car.

quote:
Originally posted by Steak N Eggs:

I had seen nowhere in Geo Leo's post about stealing a car...

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:

Quotes above are taken directly with no alterations. Read the last sentence of Geo Leo's post.

I read it. It mentions "stealing from someone's car"...nothing about stealing the car itself.

-------

"I may be slow, but at least I'm sweet!"

1.1k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:

That's like saying that it is okay to steal from someone's car if the doors were left unlocked.

quote:
Originally posted by cheater!:

GOOD GRIEF.....How can you possible say that logging a cache you didn't find is the same as stealing a car.

quote:
Originally posted by Steak N Eggs:

I had seen nowhere in Geo Leo's post about stealing a car...

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:

Quotes above are taken directly with no alterations. Read the last sentence of Geo Leo's post.

I read it. It mentions "stealing from someone's car"...nothing about stealing the car itself.

-------

"I may be slow, but at least I'm sweet!"

May 2, 2002

I stand corrected. Stealing "from" somebody's car equates to posting a find you din't actually find. Therefore you "should" be put in jail for stealing. After all you stole an increase in you find count.

Mommy!!!! She got 3 red M&M's I only got 2 red ones.

1.4k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

Hmmmm... I already do this with most of the caches I find. Is that cheating?

1.4k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

Hmmmm... I already do this with most of the caches I find. Is that cheating?

20.7k · May 2, 2002

Web-ling-

That's not cheating, it's just very impressive.

4.5k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

Hmmmm... I already do this with most of the caches I find. Is that cheating?

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/25021_1200.gif

Nope. S & M

Alan

4.5k · May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

3rd Offense - GPS seized - Geocaching can only be done with base plate compass and maps from Outdoors.com( sorry Fitz, couldn't resist.)

Alan

Hmmmm... I already do this with most of the caches I find. Is that cheating?

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/25021_1200.gif

Nope. S & M

Alan

May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by cheater!:
I stand corrected. Stealing "from" somebody's car equates to posting a find you din't actually find. Therefore you "should" be put in jail for stealing. After all you stole an increase in you find count.

Mommy!!!! She got 3 red M&M's I only got 2 red ones.

You're still missing the point. I wasn't suggesting that cheating on a geocache and stealing from a car were equally serious. Obviously they are not. The point I wanted to make is that it is not okay to cheat just because the cache owner made it easy for you to do so. Just as it is not okay to steal from a car because the owner made it easy for you to do so by leaving the doors unlocked.

In other words, it is not okay to do something wrong just because it happens to be easy. (Sort of like setting up a fake account to start a flame war so that no one would know your real username?)

May 2, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Leo:

quote:
Originally posted by cheater!:
I stand corrected. Stealing "from" somebody's car equates to posting a find you din't actually find. Therefore you "should" be put in jail for stealing. After all you stole an increase in you find count.

Mommy!!!! She got 3 red M&M's I only got 2 red ones.

You're still missing the point. I wasn't suggesting that cheating on a geocache and stealing from a car were equally serious. Obviously they are not. The point I wanted to make is that it is not okay to cheat just because the cache owner made it easy for you to do so. Just as it is not okay to steal from a car because the owner made it easy for you to do so by leaving the doors unlocked.

In other words, it is not okay to do something wrong just because it happens to be easy. (Sort of like setting up a fake account to start a flame war so that no one would know your real username?)

I don't think I missed your point at all. I think you missed that I'm making fun of you and all that whine about logs and find counts and using words like "cheating" and "wrong". Now see if you can define "cheating" and "wrong" and do that without using the word "should" or the concept associated with "should". Wars and killing and all that type of thing are fought because of "should".

Now look at this activity, geocaching. Who and what are harmed by any log? Again avoid the word and concept "should".

But now I'm getting bored. It's too easy to get a rise out the "shoulders". I'll give my self 30 lashes with a wet noodle for picking on the narrow minded.

May 3, 2002

I think we should keep this sport very clear..

Cheating is a bad thing. here at www.Geocaching.com we don't want any cheating.. maybe some group of poeple have to start there own sport .... maybe ... www.Geocheating.com

~~Exploring the world with Geocaching~~

May 3, 2002

I think we should keep this sport very clear..

Cheating is a bad thing. here at www.Geocaching.com we don't want any cheating.. maybe some group of poeple have to start there own sport .... maybe ... www.Geocheating.com

~~Exploring the world with Geocaching~~

Cheating

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