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Another is this a find?


rock33
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Found a cache yesterday that I couldn't log. There were ATVers parting at the overlook about 60 yards from the cache. I stopped to talk to them when they saw me coming up the path. I didn't want to let them see me at the cache. I took a picture of the cache and went back toward the car. Then it struck me why don't I leave my trade and log at the base of the tree were the road forks (at the coordinates the owner of the cache used)? If this can be logged as a find I will put the location and picture of where I hid my stuff on my log and ask the next cachers to put it in the cache. I did email the owner telling him my dilemma. I realize anyone could do this if they couldn't find a cache but I have the picture to prove I was there. Also this cache is about 2 ½ hours from home and I don't know when I would be able to get back. Sorry for the long post but what does everyone think

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This is a tough one. If one of the challenges intended by the hider was to be able to access the cache w/o beign observed then you didn't find it. If it was a freek occurence that these rv'er was there and you actually spotted the cache (100% sure) then you may have a case.

 

I would personally log it as a no-find - kind of the same as seeing the cache up a tree and not having a ladder with you.

 

----(sig line)---> Did you ever do any trail maintainence? - if so you will know that all but the most worn trails need continuous maintenance to prevent mother nature from reclaiming it. herd paths are quickly reclaimed - k2dave

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If in order to find it you had to sign the log book it's not a find. On the other hand if you didn't it's a find. Odd's are it's a find. Part of geocaching is being discrete. I've recently come across a similar situation where we found the cache but were wondering how the heck to retreive it. Lucily we did and singed the log book but the hole was so small we may not have been able to get it out.

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I just posted a similar topic and agreeded that my being in the exact spot of a missing cache was a no find but in your situation you did the honorable thing by not going to the cache to keep noncachers from finding it. I think that in this instance you could count it as a find since you did the right thing (unless of K2's suggestion that finding it alone is part of it which I doubt). If people knew in advance that they couldn't count it as a find, they might be tempted to dig it out in front of prying eyes.

 

If you and the hider are happy with it, then do it.

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I offer a dissenting opinion. Not a find, in my book. This situation has been brought up several times before, and I think its an interesting thing, being able to see the cache but not being able to pick it up and sign the log.

 

The original discussion is here.

 

More discussion here about non-geocachers in the vicinity.

 

This thread is about a logging a find for a cache hidden in a cave that you don't want to enter.

 

Of course, you are free to log it however you'd like, but in my mind... if the cache isn't in your hand, it's not a find. Sometimes that last 20 feet is the hardest.

 

Jamie

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I lean toward it being a find. I had a similar case where there was a cache near, but outisde a parknext to an old parking lot. I visited the cache and wherever I would try to retreive it from, I was in full view of a couple of guys working on their pickup. I decided that it wasn't worth the risk and I would just come back. I then left town for a month and during that time, the cache was archived. I decided to log it as a find since I wouldn't be able to return.

 

The one you did hasn't been archived but I'm certainly not going to drive 2.5 hours to refind a single cache. Some people are more purist than I and have more time to waste redoing those steps. If you're positive you saw it, log it as a find and let the owner decide.

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Find or not, I think you did the right thing by emailing the cache owner. It’s their cache, let them decide if you should get credit for a find. As for the idea of leaving items somewhere nearby and asking the next cacher to retrieve and place it in the cache, I think that would be a bad idea. It would be hard to argue that’s not littering. icon_frown.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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Find or not, I think you did the right thing by emailing the cache owner. It’s their cache, let them decide if you should get credit for a find. As for the idea of leaving items somewhere nearby and asking the next cacher to retrieve and place it in the cache, I think that would be a bad idea. It would be hard to argue that’s not littering. icon_frown.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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As Jamie Z pointed out we had pretty much exactly the same situation occur a while back and the consensus then was that if I had not signed the log I shouldn't get credit for a find even tho it was in plain view in front of me.

 

I asked the question which showed I had doubt whether it was a legitamate find or not. After the group decided it was a not find I actually felt pretty good changing my log to a not found.

 

Its interesting that it seems like the group concensus now is to log it as a find. I wonder if the old time geocachers, six months ago icon_smile.gif were more hard core? Or do we not have enough of a sample size to really decide?

 

--- yrium ---

 

P.S. did anybody understand the Lord of the Rings reference in the other thread? I didn't understand it then and I still don't. Don't know if KGB was putting me down or praising me.

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As Jamie Z pointed out we had pretty much exactly the same situation occur a while back and the consensus then was that if I had not signed the log I shouldn't get credit for a find even tho it was in plain view in front of me.

 

I asked the question which showed I had doubt whether it was a legitamate find or not. After the group decided it was a not find I actually felt pretty good changing my log to a not found.

 

Its interesting that it seems like the group concensus now is to log it as a find. I wonder if the old time geocachers, six months ago icon_smile.gif were more hard core? Or do we not have enough of a sample size to really decide?

 

--- yrium ---

 

P.S. did anybody understand the Lord of the Rings reference in the other thread? I didn't understand it then and I still don't. Don't know if KGB was putting me down or praising me.

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I thought the comment by KGB was for BluesPreacher and not you since his was the log above. If it was directed at BP the LOTR reference would make sense because no one was really sure they saw Bilbo or Frodo when they wore the ring. They didn't know if they were ever really there, much like the comment BP made about being sure you really saw the cache....just my thought.

 

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. E Roosevelt

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quote:
Originally posted by yrium:

 

P.S. did anybody understand the Lord of the Rings reference in the other thread? I didn't understand it then and I still don't. Don't know if KGB was putting me down or praising me.


 

It's impossible for anything associated with liking the LOTR to be a put down. I have to agree with PioneerGal, I'm guessing (though I have no idea) that it has to due with BP, maybe KGB was connecting the length of your post to the length of the LOTR (hey may be one of those poor misguided souls who think it's to long). That being said I love your posts, got to read them while I was out west staying at Rob's and Catherine's. If your ever out my way please please please hit myThe Fellowship of the Ring cache, I'd love to read the log of your adventure.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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Ohh yeah, and just my opinion but if you don't / can't sign the log book, it's not a find. Don't get me wrong, you did the right thing, cachers should never endanger a cache by getting it when people who may destroy it are watching, I'd log it as a note, and explain the story. It's only 1 find.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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There was one more thread about this that I was looking for, but I can't find.

 

Someone was in a museum, or a park office, and they could see the cache, plain as day inside a classroom, but that there was a class going on inside, and they didn't want to barge in. They even took pictures and posted them, but they weren't sure whether they should post a find or not.

 

I seem to remember that the consensus was that it was not a find.

 

quote:
Posted by yrium:

Its interesting that it seems like the group concensus now is to log it as a find. I wonder if the old time geocachers, six months ago were more hard core? Or do we not have enough of a sample size to really decide?


 

yrium, I was curious about that same thing. That was one reason I referenced your story.

 

quote:
Posted by Lazyboy:

You know what, we can get pretty anal at times about what is or isn't allowed. For me this is so simple. If you feel you deserve to log it, then log it. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks other than the guy who owns the cache. If he doesn't have a problem with it then no one else should either.


Lazyboy, of course that's what it comes down to, but it's nice to hear what other people think.

 

In my thread with a similar question, I could have simply gone and posted a find... but I thought it was an interesting story, and I figured I'd see what other people thought about it.

 

It's not really being anal, it's sharing a story and getting feedback.

 

Jamie

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In close cases like this it comes down to what you and the cache owner can live with, I guess.

In once instance, I found a micro cache and actually held it in my hands, but because it was in a precarious and very public place and I'd left my pencil back at the car, I didn't sign the log book.

I initially logged it as a find, but later changed it to a note and then went back and signed it later and logged it as a find.

Without a doubt I found it, and could have provided plenty of evidence to that fact, but I didn't feel like it was a 100% find until I scribbled something on the log sheet.

In your case, I would have tried to find some way to distract the ATV'ers and get to the cache ("boy, you should have seen that nude Swedish bikini team hiking a few miles south of here!" ) or came back another time.

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quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

As for the idea of leaving items somewhere nearby and asking the next cacher to retrieve and place it in the cache, I think that would be a bad idea. It would be hard to argue that’s not littering.


I agree with this comment... I checked the coordinates of where the stuff was left, it's a good distance from the cache location.

 

What happened to Rock33... no word from him since his original post.

 

Jamie

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quote:
Originally posted by mikechim:

That being said I love your posts, got to read them while I was out west staying at Rob's and Catherine's. If your ever out my way please please please hit my http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=14444 cache, I'd love to read the log of your adventure.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."


 

Mike,

 

I just checked out your referenced cache and I wish it was in my neck of the woods so I could easily visit. Only way I'm going to get that far East anytime soon is if someone sneaks a travelbug tag on my toe next time I fall asleep. icon_smile.gif

 

Oh yeah, Your name came up in a conversation the other day at my house, Whistlestick said "Who is this mikechim guy that took your place on the creekbed website?"

 

Whaaaaa... I've been replaced? My fifteen minutes of fame went by so quick.

 

icon_smile.gif

 

--- yrium ---

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quote:
Originally posted by mikechim:

That being said I love your posts, got to read them while I was out west staying at Rob's and Catherine's. If your ever out my way please please please hit my http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=14444 cache, I'd love to read the log of your adventure.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."


 

Mike,

 

I just checked out your referenced cache and I wish it was in my neck of the woods so I could easily visit. Only way I'm going to get that far East anytime soon is if someone sneaks a travelbug tag on my toe next time I fall asleep. icon_smile.gif

 

Oh yeah, Your name came up in a conversation the other day at my house, Whistlestick said "Who is this mikechim guy that took your place on the creekbed website?"

 

Whaaaaa... I've been replaced? My fifteen minutes of fame went by so quick.

 

icon_smile.gif

 

--- yrium ---

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Jamie Z, you must me talking about my find at a college green house on June 8, 2002.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=4814

 

I felt it was a find because I followed the cache owner’s instructions for access to the cache and still was unable to access it. He did email and apologized for not being available as he described he would be. He apparently allowed the "found" log because he did not delete it.

 

ABXGuy

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For what ever reason... the cache was missing or destroyed, the log was soaked or missing, you were physically, ethically, or psychologically prohibited from placing your hands on it...

If you feel you are still entitled to the find and you and the cache owner agree on it, then count it. If you still have a doubt in your mind, Then don't count it. This is a game, you are supposed to enjoy it. There is no reason to accumulate a burden of guilt here. You may feel better knowing that you have not taken credit for a cache half-found.

 

When the game is over [never, I hope] one will not be able to distinguish which tic on the slate was a multi-part 5/5 and which was a drive-by virtual 1/1. They will all look the same. The difference will be logged in the player's mind and the knowledge of how well the game was played.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:

I offer a dissenting opinion. Not a find, in my book. This situation has been brought up several times before, and I think its an interesting thing, being able to see the cache but not being able to pick it up and sign the log.

 

The original discussion is http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3810966883&m=5770921704.

 

More discussion http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=2810918334&r=2320919434 about non-geocachers in the vicinity.

 

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000900883&m=5790964384&r=7630988584 thread is about a logging a find for a cache hidden in a cave that you don't want to enter.

 

Of course, you are free to log it however you'd like, but in my mind... if the cache isn't in your hand, it's not a find. Sometimes that last 20 feet is the hardest.

 

Jamie


 

I have to jump in with the Not A Find group. I've placed many urban public place caches where the challange is getting to it without being seen.

 

On the idea that you can't be sure it was the cache I have to agree. One one hunt, I was sure I had found the cache, reached down and picked it up and on the bottom it had said, "This is not the cache". It was a decoy. Now this wasn't the typical rubermaid or ammo box so it's not like the hider left one empty box out there just to fool you. It was a more like a garden figurine so it looked more natural in its suroundings.

 

That box might have been a decoy. You don't until you pick it up, open it up, and sign the log book.

 

In the end it's up to the hider.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

5867_200.gif

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quote:

That is indeed the cache to which I was referring. Ironic, too.. since I referenced that exact thread earlier in this thread.

 

So... The question. Did you go back and sign the logbook like you promised?


 

Not yet, that cache is 3 hours from my house and have not been back in that area yet. I will be there again in August. I will certainly try to obtain access again.

 

ABXGuy

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I say log it as a fine. You found it, you have a picture to prove you found it. Personally I'd have went ahead and signed the book and made a trade if there was something I wanted to trade for. If the guys wanted to know what I was doing I'd tell them. I'm sure when they knew that all there was in the cache was mcdonald toys, pencils and other misc. stuff they wouldn't have botehred it. I've only logged 8 finds, but still don't understand completely the 'secret squirrle' aspect of the geocaching. Why be ashamed.

 

Chip

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quote:
Originally posted by yrium:

Only way I'm going to get that far East anytime soon is if someone sneaks a travelbug tag on my toe next time I fall asleep. icon_smile.gif

 

Oh yeah, Your name came up in a conversation the other day at my house, Whistlestick said "Who is this mikechim guy that took your place on the creekbed website?"

 

Whaaaaa... I've been replaced? My fifteen minutes of fame went by so quick.

 

icon_smile.gif

 

--- yrium ---


 

I'm sure those travel bug logs would get your much more then your 15 mintues icon_biggrin.gif

I don't know if I exactly took your place, but I will say if I could write with your style I'd probably be able to sell the story of my travels for millions. LOL I could just imagine some of the descriptions.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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quote:
Originally posted by yrium:

Only way I'm going to get that far East anytime soon is if someone sneaks a travelbug tag on my toe next time I fall asleep. icon_smile.gif

 

Oh yeah, Your name came up in a conversation the other day at my house, Whistlestick said "Who is this mikechim guy that took your place on the creekbed website?"

 

Whaaaaa... I've been replaced? My fifteen minutes of fame went by so quick.

 

icon_smile.gif

 

--- yrium ---


 

I'm sure those travel bug logs would get your much more then your 15 mintues icon_biggrin.gif

I don't know if I exactly took your place, but I will say if I could write with your style I'd probably be able to sell the story of my travels for millions. LOL I could just imagine some of the descriptions.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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quote:
Originally posted by Seay me:

but still don't understand completely the 'secret squirrle' aspect of the geocaching. Why be ashamed.

 

Chip


 

In my opinion (and the reason I am careful) isn't about being ashamed. It's over concern for the cache. I have to admit I don't follow any hard and fast rules, I'll often explain caching to hikers I meet on the trial and offer to take them along. Though at the same time I wouldn't want a group of drunken hillbillies or hundred's of peopled to see me retrieve a cache either. The chances of one of them stealing or damaging the cache would be pretty high. Caches get stolen and vandalized often enough without pointing them out to people, but I agree there is someleeway, there is a line between introducing new people to the sport and endangering a cache.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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I want to thank everyone who replied to this post. The cache owner told me to log it as a find. He has been having problems with his caches in that area being plundered. I think the fun of geocaching just isn't finding the cache, but getting to places you never even knew existed or had no reason to go. Thanks again.

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