Help with cache approval

[+SylvrStorm]

I'd like to get some opinions on a cache I want to have approved, but the admin has a problem with it. First, I have to say no admin bashing. He's been very helpful, responsive, and supportive, and is working with me to get this cache approvable.

 

I want to place a cache in a public building. I have permission from the facility manager. You don't need to bother people working there, but you do need to go during public hours (which I note on the cache page). The thing is, GPS reception is likely to be poor to non-existant inside the building.

 

My original solution was to post the coordinates to the front door. The cache description contains a general clue that should lead you to look in the right area once you're inside. The encrypted clue gives you more specific information as to where to find it.

 

The admin's problem is that he figured you could find the cache without a GPSr, which makes it more akin to a letterbox than a geocache. And in a way, he's right. Because I've stated that the cache is in a public building (had to, because of the hours, so people won't try it for night caching), a quick click to MapQuest could find you the right place. You could walk in and use the clues to find the cache without even warming up your GPSr.

 

My response was that there are other caches out there that can be (and have been) found without a GPSr, by using the internet to get the general area, and the clues to find the cache. Nevertheless, we've been trying to come up with an alternative that will fit closer to the regular guidelines.

 

The admin's suggestion was to make it into a multicache. I could either point the cache page to a micro hidden outside somewhere with instructions for how to find the indoor cache, or the indoor one could hold the coordinates to a traditional cache, which you'd use a GPSr to find. Good ideas, except that there's not a good place for a traditional cache nearby outside, and I'm afraid that hiding a micro outside would lead to cachers destroying the landscaping hunting for a needle in a haystack.

 

I came up with two other alternatives. The first is that I could make it into an offset cache by leaving the coordinates as they are (just outside the front door), and provide a compass bearing and distance to the cache. I compared this to other offset caches, but the admin contends that in those cases a GPSr is still required, while mine would still be findable without a GPSr.

 

My other alternative is that I could determine the actual cache coordinates. I'd probably have to resort to calculating them, and finders would probably have more difficulty locating it, but at least the coordinates on the cache page would be for the actual cache. Cachers would still have to be told it's inside a public building, but it would be harder to find without a GPSr. (Decrypting the hint might give it away, but that's the same for many hints; or I could make the hint harder.)

 

So, what do you think?

 

A) The original cache concept was fine because many caches could conceivably be found without using a GPSr.

Make it into a multi like the admin suggested, and take a chance on a questionable outdoor site.

C) Make it into an offset; even if you could do it without a GPSr, you're still using navigational (compass) skills, so that's okay.

D) Post the actual coordinates, and let cachers figure out how to find it with no reception for the final XX metres.

E) I'm open to other suggestions.

[+carleenp]

Interesting problem.

 

Does the building have a courtyard? I thought about trying to get permission to place a cache in a public building with a courtyard. The cache would be in the yard, and when people entered the building, they would lose reception, but would get it back again when they found the courtyard and went out there.

 

Otherwise, maybe use the actual coords but give some good encrypted hints?

 

[+SylvrStorm]

quote:

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Originally posted by carleenp:

 

Does the building have a courtyard?

---

 

Good idea, but no courtyard. It does have some nice outdoor areas around it, but nowhere to hide a large cache, and as I said, I'm worried about a micro out there becoming a needle in a haystack and leading to destroyed landscaping.

 

*** Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and they laugh at you. ***

[+Stunod]

The multi could work...just put the info onto a magnet (like the thin advertising ones) and attach it to a sign or fence post.

 

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."

[+pdxmarathonman]

Depending on the building you just might be able to get a lock inside. I typically get a lock on my GPSr while still in the locker room of a single story building. No windows in the locker room.

 

Who says that the micro has to be a stone's throw away. Make 'em work for it, place it a half mile away

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

How about posting fake coordinates and doing a small puzzle or math equation to get the final coordinates. Then there wouldn't be a map to show them where the building was.

 

Or the first stage in a multi could be the coordinates listed on a magnetic strip and placed on a sign in a parking lot somewhere nearby (even up to a mile away). You could then state on the cache page that the first stage is in plain sight and there should be no tearing up of the landscape. (I didn't post quick enough, two others posted before I got this idea out there.)

 

***********

 

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes

On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:

"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --

"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

 

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898

[Jamethiel]

So what if Mapquest would take you to the building. It would only get you to the general area. You are using the coordinates to detail a starting point,IE, which entrance to use to get into the building. This can't be much different from the cache at a stockbrokers in NY where you go into teh building, go to a certain office, give the Secretaries a password, and are handed the cache. At least your searcher will actually have to search for the cache.

Personally, I'd probably make it a multi, which takes people all the way around the building or block, then from data they gather from that trip, have them fill in blanks in the instructions to find the cache. You could just drive them nuts with that.

EX: at coordinates XX*xx.xxx... when you can read the word XXXX, you are facing (1).

Then, later in the instructions : Go (1) 50 paces, turn (4). go to the (2) door, (3) from this door, go (5) paces (6).

That could be fun.

-Jennifer

 

Age does not bring wisdom, but it does give perspective.

[+yumitori]

quote:

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Originally posted by SylvrStorm:

 

The admin's problem is that he figured you could find the cache without a GPSr, which makes it more akin to a letterbox than a geocache. And in a way, he's right. Because I've stated that the cache is in a public building (had to, because of the hours, so people won't try it for night caching), a quick click to MapQuest could find you the right place. You could walk in and use the clues to find the cache without even warming up your GPSr.

---

 

Sorry, but I don't see why this is a concern. I've certainly found caches before without using a GPSr, and there's other folks who have tracked down most of their caches that way.

 

When did GPSrs become a requirement instead of an option?

 

Ron/yumitori

[Moun10Bike]

quote:

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Originally posted by yumitori:

 

When did GPSrs become a _requirement_ instead of an option?

---

 

Use of a GPSr is the fundamental root of geocaching. While it is possible (and perfectly acceptable) to use other methods to locate many caches, it is a completely different thing to set up a cache in such a way that the GPS is rendered completely secondary. The cache is then by definition not a geocache.

 

That said, there is a huge gray area here, and I'm not sure where you draw the line between acceptable and not.

 

[+El Diablo]

I agree with Tsegi....add another stage that requires a gps that will lead to the building. There are a lot of caches (mine included) that dosen't require a gps to get to the final cache.

 

As long as it requires a gps unit at some stage...then to me it is a good cache.

good luck with it.

 

El Diablo

 

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

[+SylvrStorm]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I still think my original idea was reasonable, but I've taken some ideas from this thread, tweaked them a bit, and changed my cache to a multi. The original cache is now the final stage. Earlier stages have the cacher use a GPSr to collect info from signs etc., then use that info to find the final cache.

 

Feel free to continue this thread, as it seems there are a lot of ideas when it comes to what constitutes an acceptable cache, and I think it merits discussion.

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

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Originally posted by SylvrStorm:

 

The admin's problem is that he figured you could find the cache without a GPSr, which makes it more akin to a letterbox than a geocache.

---

 

Are letterbox hybrids not allowed anymore?

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

[+Renegade Knight]

Well...

 

There is no rule that says you have to have a GPS to find a cache. All a GPS does is make it easier.

 

Hmmm...

 

Any cache named after the 'spot' or which describes the view gives away it's location. My first cache was called Initial Point. It was hidden at Initial Point.

 

I've got one called Devils Coral at Devils Coral and others... With some map reading skills you don't need the GPS.

 

Your cache is a multia cache if it requires two finds.

 

I really don't see the problem, other than the GPS gets you to the starting point and not the cache, which isn't exactly an inovation.

 

Oh, there is a cache in Boise inside a building. It just doesn't say anything directly that would lead you to that conclusion.

 

Good luck. The cache isn't broke.

 

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

[+bystox]

How about a muli cache where the first cache has a blueprint (just a diagram really) of the building. Then, using the blueprint, the seeker can triangulate with their GPS from a couple of places outside the building to see where the cache is inside.