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Plan to Eliminate the Pirates: Yea or Nay


Pantalaimon
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quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

A friendly pirate perhaps, using a site frequented by the same unfriendly pirates that are antagonizing cachers elsewhere.


Yes a site may be used by both friendly and unfriendly people, but what site isen't? Do you agree with all the people who post here I now i sure don't. I post what I think most of the time, though I tone it down a bit for the weak at heart. I try and consider both sides and I figure thats one of my downfalls, I cannot be as one sided as some of the people that post here.

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If you are motivated to bother, have them arrested for stealing your property.

 

Since the cache is your property (you haven't lost or abandoned it), if someone steals the contests and you can pin it on them, have them arrested.

 

This does several good things, it provides ramification discouraging similar behaviour, it provides good PR for geocaching, it enlightens the police to geocaching, and it catches someone behaving illegally.

 

At the very least they'll have left fingerprints around unless the abscond with everything.

 

Let's not rebuild the wheel...

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

 

PS: Now where did that thread go on the trail/cache camera?

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That forum seemed much more heated then i felt necessary. The plain simple fact is we all have different views on most subjects and the fact that we cannot agree on one item is not tht big of a deal. Lets face it caches will be plundered, violated, and just plain stolen. We all have to deal with that, if we can in some small way stop some of the people doing this I think it is well worth the effot. If we can bring those on the "dark side" over to our point of view isen't it much better then just crying foul and bitc$$ng about it?

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quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

Are you serious?!??! You dump / abandon your litter (a geocache) in a park and then try to get someone charged with stealing it when they take it? This is just too funny! icon_rolleyes.gif


If I place a potted plant on my front porch, is it abandoned?

How about if I place it on the block wall separating my property from the neighbor's?

How about if I place it in the park down the block?

 

Either way, it is not bolted down and could be picked up by just about anyone. I haven't abandoned it, I've just put it in a specific location. It enhances my porch, wall, or the park. It just depends on weather or not I place it on private or public property.

 

What about placing an ammo can on my front porch? On the wall? In the park?

I haven't abandoned it either, I'm placing it there to keep track of visitors to a specific location.

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness bandbass.gif

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It seems we have a near 50-50 split on the original poll question: "Should Geocaching.com attempt to counteract the effect of the pirates by maintaining an organized effort to cleanse the site (cache pages, threads, ect.) of any reference to their activities?"

 

My take on the discussion is, most of the *Yeas* feel that repeated publicity encourages pirates.

 

Most of the *Neas* feel a concern for the censorship of history.

 

I, too, feel a concern for the preservation of the record.

 

I think the logical compromise is to accept a policy of no more pirate threads, and editing existing threads and logs at the discretion of the cache owner (or forum moderators).

 

ingeo-button2.gifbad_boy_a.gifpuke.gif

 

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

 

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

 

.

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quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

Seriously, this pirating has to stop. If you have to eliminate all mention of it to not encourage it, fine. Ban accounts and associated accounts, fine. Zero tolerance. None. People shouldn't screw with other people's caches. Period.


 

Yeah! Even when it comes to removing "Religious Propaganda"!

/me slaps hand... BAD HYDRA! BAD HYDRA! icon_smile.gif

 

-=Jerry A. Goodson=- W5BFF aka hydrashok407 smile.gif KoolAid Drinker smile.gif

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Real peace is not just the absence of conflict, it's the presence of justice" - http://www.hydrashok.com

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quote:
Originally posted by sept1c_tank:

I think the logical compromise is to accept a policy of _no more pirate threads,_ and _editing existing threads and logs_ _at the discretion of the cache owner_ (or forum moderators).


I agree with the 'no more pirate threads' but you contradict yourself with this comment:

quote:
I, too, feel a concern for the preservation of _the record._

Why edit or allow editing if it is supposed to be preserved for the record?

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness bandbass.gif

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I didn't vote because I disagree with the two choices given. I believe the solution is NOT to cloak the pirates' activities in further darkness, but to expose them to the light. Sure, pirates want notoriety, but anonimity is even more important to them; otherwise they wouldn't be hiding their identity. Is a pirate in your area? Spread the word. Get as many area cachers as possible to temporarily archive (and remove) their existing caches. Make nearly all new caches at least temporarily "MOC". Set some traps by creating a few new caches on private property with single entry points and parking locations; then organize "still watches" or frequent patrolling of the cache sites and parking spots. Record license plate/VIN numbers of all vehicles you see along with times and dates. The first objective is to gather intelligence that will enable you to identify and expose the pirate because exposure, or even a credible threat of it, can be a real demotivator for continued activities.

 

If the pirating continues and you eventually identify or catch the thief, prosecution may be an option. If not, there are still ample means of convincing the thief that the cost of further pirating will surely outweigh the benefits. He WILL stop playing his game when it is no longer fun, and there ARE things you can do to hasten the end of it.

 

worldtraveler

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.

quote:
I agree with the 'no more pirate threads' but you contradict yourself with this comment:

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I, too, feel a concern for the preservation of _the record._

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Why edit or allow editing if it is supposed to be preserved for the record?


There's really nothing that says anything is supposed to be preserved. And, after all, I guess we've already resolved that the cache owner *owns* the cache and can delete excessive photos, spoilers, etc.

 

The key word is discretion. For both cache owners and moderators. That's the system we're currently using.

 

ingeo-button2.gifbad_boy_a.gifpuke.gif

 

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

 

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

 

.

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quote:
Originally posted by M15a4spr:

For G-d's sake, Kouros is even in a panic about the word "cleansing". icon_rolleyes.gif


 

Well, I'm not really - but "cleansing" to mean "changing" is a somewhat nasty word, you must agree.

 

It's just another word for censorship, but with a PC title.

 

------

"There's Sparticus. That's him, over there."

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My vote: no.

 

My commentary: I think this whole discussion is highly absurd. First, while I recognize that the cache owner is going to be annoyed if they find someone has messed with their cache, it's even worse when the whole thing just disappears without a trace (usually by the hands of someone who doesn't even know this website exists and just tripped over the box).

 

At least with the organized piratecaching.com website, there are actually rules to how to pirate (e.g. place the contents in a container for the finder to use for their own cache and only X meters from original cache with a note and map, etc). If I had stumbled onto this instead of reading about it here, I'd be relatively intrigued and might actually get around to placing my first cache with the new container. It can even just be thought of as a temporary multicache.

 

The idea that we need to squelch this by pretending it doesn't exist or boobytrapping a cache or actually taking any action other than to tolerate a slight variation in the game is just a bit odd considering the dozens of slight variations people are continually trying to introduce and just happened to be accepted by the same people who want piratecaching to stop.

 

I think "the regulars" of this forum also need to really step back every now and then and remember that they're a very insignificant (yet vocal) minority in this game and that whatever their motivations or decisions, they do not necessarily consist with what geocachers actually want. Even if we go by the votes in the poll (and not the expressed opinions that qualify votes), then there are 50 people so far speaking out on the issue. I think that's about half or even a quarter of those who live and geocache in Boston Proper alone.

 

I'm pretty sure piratecaching.com isn't doing this to be antagonistic, but to present something some people will find enjoyable (and I'd imagine it's costing them a bit of time and money to do so). I'm sure that if every log at a pirated cache said "boy that ticks me off...just signed the log...why the heck would I ever go 30 meters out of my way to put this stuff back in the box and get a free container out of the deal", then the pirates would probably decide that they are more of a hinderance than a benefit. As I see it, this is almost the same thing that a cacher in New England was just praised by Panta in a different thread (placing cache content 30 meters from cache for extra hunt)...of course this one doesn't come with a pirate map for everyone to hate.

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quote:
Originally posted by ju66l3r:

As I see it, this is almost the same thing that a cacher in New England was just praised by Panta in a different thread (placing cache content 30 meters from cache for extra hunt)...of course this one doesn't come with a pirate map for everyone to hate.


 

I don't understand what this part of the post that mentions me means. I would appreciate an elaboration.

 

Pan

 

Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums.

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quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:

I don't understand what this part of the post that mentions me means. I would appreciate an elaboration.


 

Look Ma! I'm quoting myself.

 

Forget it, now I understand. You're equating Jeepers Keepers, who was leaving valuable walking sticks in the woods for others to find, to a pirate.

 

I strenuously disagree. Jeepers Keepers was simply leaving a great trade item near a cache (or not) because he wanted people to enjoy them, and they obviously wouldn't fit IN a cache, AND he didn't even trade for them! He just GAVE them away!

 

Even the most benevolent pirate, like the one who moves contents slightly, and then leaves a new cache container, is different from the wonderful selflessness of Jeepers Keepers.

 

Pan

 

Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums.

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The plan would involve agreed upon deletion of threads, alteration of logs, and an eventual cleansing of all things geocaching that reference any pirate activity, past, present or future. It would also involve work to stay on top of new information that is posted, and contacting the owners of caches and threads for the cleansing of such references.

 

QUOTE]

 

That whole Hitler thing was ugly and I think we should remove it from our histoy archives, burn the coppies of Anne Frank and penalize any Hollocaust[sp] survivors for relating thier stories in the future...WRONG! History repeats itself. The only way to fight the recidivism of bad things is to well document their existence. While the Hitler comparison is extreme, I am against any form of "cleansing" of the noted history of our logs.

Please note that I do not endorse or denounce the acts of the "Pirates" (7 out of twelve voices in my head have yet to reach a verdict). I must however argue that this proposed approach to deter them is wrong.

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Sorry about taking so long to get back. Change in works shifts and I needed to sleep.

 

As for those Pirates.

Everything I posted above is on the extreme side of things and was posted to see how far people wanted to go. Not much in the way of flames. As for burning the house down or the animal cruilty thing. So? Whats your point?

 

There should be a simple way to isolate this area/region on geocaching.com for people accessing those caches.

But, As I have no idea how to program a vcr let alone write code or whatever to do the job I am not sure how much trouble that would be and would it even be worth the effort to do so.

 

Once the pirates are located, they could have access denied until they start using public computers and then things would start over again.

 

Those effected with this pirate problem might just have to think up a new way to get the final numbers for their caches. Something along the line of a multi hunt and when the first section is found, you have to contact the cache owner with a code word before they give out the final numbers.

 

The thing wrong with that is: Lots of extra work on the owners part. Also, one pirate could be the "good guy" and just pass the numbers along to the "bad guy" who waits for three or four or a dozen hits on the cache before doing the pirate thing.

 

It sounds to me like you guys and gals need to start thinking harder then the pirates and make it not worth the time and effort for them to go after your caches.

 

As for deleting all mention of them from geocaching.com. Why?

 

logscaler.

 

"It is not fair to have a battle of wits with unarmed people."

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