+Team Sand Dollar Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Should the staff at Geocaching.com restore the Deer Valley Rock Art Center virtual cache. Quote Link to comment
+ScottJ Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 As I said in another thread, caving on this one sets a really bad precedent. The "official" is standing firm on a really indefensible position, and there's just no way we should allow that to stand. Remove any physical caches that are not welcome? OF COURSE. Apologize for the actions of a geocacher who might have improperly touched or fondled a petroglyph? WITHOUT QUESTION. Remove all references to a public location of general interest to geocachers, one that is doing no harm and breaking no law? ABSOLUTELY NOT! -- Scott Johnson (ScottJ) Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I also vote for ScottJ!!! "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
+evergreenhiker! Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 It's a virt....just do what ScottJ suggests above. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Well, now I commented on this in the other thread. If its a public place, and the public is invited there (and the fee to get is seems say they are) a VC is not only appropriate it's probably the better way to go. As for permision, none is needed for coordinates and a question that can only be found out by visiting. Hell you could do both by using the address (who in the hell forgot to ask permission to give the place an address!). They do not own the coordinates just as they do not own their address. As for applogizing for an arm on a petroglyph. Gimme a break. If any tom dick and harry could do that there is no reason to hang a geocacher out to dry for it. Put the dadgum rock behind glass if it's so important. That reminds me. I need to go out and get my personal petroglyph kit so that in 10,000 years I can cause probelms with my own petroglyphs. We all need a legacy. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
South_Cache Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 That reminds me. I need to go out and get my personal petroglyph kit so that in 10,000 years I can cause probelms with my own petroglyphs. We all need a legacy. Probably some young native american vandals created the things 10,000 years ago and now these guys are protecting them. What about the graffitti they scrubbed off of my office building this morning? I have often said that if we had environmentalist a million years ago we wouldn't have the Grand Canyon today. Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around. Your results may vary. Capn Skully Quote Link to comment
+MountainMudbug Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I vote no. If they really don't want it there that badly, then don't put it there. Such friction makes cachers look pushy and argumentative. There are plenty of other places to make virtuals. Quote Link to comment
+Quest Master Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 The cache owner should decide. I'd vote yes if I knew that they wanted it to be restored. Johnny Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Sorry, gotta go against the apparant popular opinion on this one. One simple reason, the place CHARGES AN ENTRANCE FEE. If they don't want us there, they DON'T NEED OUR MONEY. I my vote is not only, don't reinstate the cache, but BOYCOTT THE PLACE. Tell everyone you know to avoid the place. I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should happen to get back before I return, please ask me to wait. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I've got a cache in a Zoo that charges an Entree Fee. Quite frankly the zoo can use the money but the cache is real. It's there more for the idea and concept than because of the fee's. Besides A fee is ok for a park or non profit/museum type place. not for your local roller rink. There is a difference. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Whidbey Walk Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by IV_Warrior:One simple reason, the place CHARGES AN ENTRANCE FEE. Here in Washington all State Parks, National Forrest Service Trailheads and locations managed by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife all require fees. A no fee requirement for a cache sure would rule out an awful lot of locations. On the other hand, I can see disallowing caches where a fee is paid to a private individual or corporation due to the commercial nature of such a location. However the DVRAC is on public land and managed by a public organization making it closer to a State Park than Disneyland. On the subject of restoring the cache I made my point clear in the other thread but did add my yes vote to the tally. http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/ Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Guess I should clear up things a little. I understand the rules on caches at locations that charge a fee. I also don't have a problem paying an entrance fee at a State Park/National Wildlife Refuge/etc. My point was this place appears to have a poor attitude toward us, why put a cache there inviting fellow cachers to pay a fee to get to a place that doesn't seem to want us there? Why should we insist on giving them our money? I've got better things to do with my money than give it to an organization that doesn't like me. Makes about as much sense as a hunter giving money PETA. If they don't like us, let's NOT force a cache there and increase their cash flow, lets do the opposite, and spread the word to our friends that it's NOT somewhere they should go. I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should happen to get back before I return, please ask me to wait. Quote Link to comment
+Whidbey Walk Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 But then they win. http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/ Quote Link to comment
+WhereRWee? Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 As the cache owner I would like to see it restored. The reason I created the cache was to share what I still consider a very interesting site. My guess is that the person who complained to the web site is probably in the minority in their views regarding this. For those of you that are interested I have posted the offensive photo on the original thread about this matter. Thanks for your support, Ken WhereRWee? Quote Link to comment
+Jacksons Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 The person that complained about your cache, is a total idiot,and I think the cache should be restored.To let a "person" like this get away with having the cache removed is WRONG I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess. Quote Link to comment
+Team Sand Dollar Posted February 20, 2003 Author Share Posted February 20, 2003 For many of you who are unfamiliar with caching in Arizona, a while back an article came out in the paper stating that geocachers where destroying archeological sites and stealing artifacts. This whole article was based on the word of a couple of sit stewards that notice that there where geocaches near these THEIR sites. And I emphasize THEIR site. Although the article was baseless, a lot of negative press was given to geocaching. In fact, at the site where the site steward claimed that articles where taken, the nearby cache had been visited only three times. I was one of the three visitors to that site, and saw nothing that resembled and archeological site. Then again I’m no expert, and the proximity of the cache to the site is unknown. The site steward just assumed that since there was a cache nearby, cachers must be stealing the artifacts. Because of the bad press, many people responsible for the public land in Arizona see geocaching in a bad light. Much has been done since the article to educate these people about our sport but there is still a long way to go. There are still those in the area that still bad mouths geocaching to whom ever will listen. This situation may be a result of earlier bad press. For this reason this cache, which is a very fine example of what a virtual cache is all about, must not give in to the uneducated. This cache violated no rules and introduced the caching community to a great area. I must be brought back. Quote Link to comment
+MaxEntropy Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 What's the problem with entrance fees to private lands? There are at least two physical caches inside of Disneyland. One is quite clever. We all know that Disneyland charges a heck of an entrance fee yet I've never felt a need to call for archiving of these caches. quote:Originally posted by Whidbey Walk: quote:Originally posted by IV_Warrior:One simple reason, the place CHARGES AN ENTRANCE FEE. Here in Washington all State Parks, National Forrest Service Trailheads and locations managed by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife all require fees. A no fee requirement for a cache sure would rule out an awful lot of locations. On the other hand, I can see disallowing caches where a fee is paid to a private individual or corporation due to the commercial nature of such a location. However the DVRAC is on public land and managed by a public organization making it closer to a State Park than Disneyland. On the subject of restoring the cache I made my point clear in the other thread but did add my yes vote to the tally. http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/ Mickey Max Entropy More than just a name, a lifestyle. Quote Link to comment
+IV_Warrior Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by MaxEntropy:What's the problem with entrance fees to private lands? There are at least two physical caches inside of Disneyland. One is quite clever. We all know that Disneyland charges a heck of an entrance fee yet I've never felt a need to call for archiving of these caches. Mickey Max Entropy More than just a name, a lifestyle. Take from the requirements page this is why they should be archived and what's wrong with fees: Commercial Caches / Caches that Solicit What is a commercial cache? A commercial use of the web site cache reporting tool is an direct or indirect (either intentional or non-intentional) attempt to solicit customers through a geocaching.com listing. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should happen to get back before I return, please ask me to wait. Quote Link to comment
+ScottJ Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I was thinking about this last night and I think I have the perfect solution. If the admins don't or won't reinstate the cache (as the overwhelming majority seems to feel they should), then there's an alternative. Get the coordinates of the SIGN, at the entrance to this property. Post those coordinates as a virtual cache (no fee required!). To prove each find, the finder must take his photograph with the sign, preferably thumbing his nose at it or making some other derisive gesture (KEEP IT CLEAN, no mooning or flipping the bird.) It's perfect. It doesn't benefit the center financially, it still allows the center to be the subject of a virtual, and it gives everyone a great opportunity to vent (well, at least those who can get there and would have hit the original cache.) -- Scott Johnson (ScottJ) Quote Link to comment
+Quest Master Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I voted YES, then. If the cache owner is willing to take a stand here and take responsibilty for his cache in spite of threats that legal action may be taken by the DVRAC then I respect and support his decision to do so. Give him a fair chance to defend his cache! I, for one, really appreciate his effort to maintain this cache so that other geocachers might enjoy this unique and special place. Why is there this policy of "guilty until proven innocent"? Can anyone claim to be an authority and have a cache listing removed from the website? Does the cache owner not have a right to know the identity of his accuser? It isn't fair. Restore the cache! Johnny Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Quest Master:Why is there this policy of "guilty until proven innocent"? Can anyone claim to be an authority and have a cache listing removed from the website? Does the cache owner not have a right to know the identity of his accuser? It isn't fair. Johnny I agree that this cache was archived for the wrong reasons, but whoever said this cache is ok? If Jeremy doesnt want the cache listed, for whatever reason, he has the power to nix it (on the internet anyway). Quote Link to comment
+Mopar Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by welch:If Jeremy doesnt want the cache listed, for whatever reason, he has the power to nix it (on the internet anyway). Well, not the whole internet, just geocaching.com's corner of it. Guess someone COULD list it at one of the other geocaching sites if they so desired. Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon. Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mopar:Well, not the whole internet, just geocaching.com's corner of it. Guess someone COULD list it at one of the other geocaching sites if they so desired. Good point, I was, of course, referring to GC.com. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.