Rice Family Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I have noticed that an electronic compass feature adds about $50.00 to a GPS unit. Could someone please tell me what you would use an electronic compass for and if it is worth the extra $50.00? Quote Link to comment
+Bloencustoms Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I bought a Vista for the compass and the mapping features. When you are closing in on a cache, movement becomes erratic as you stop to look in holes , under rocks, etc. The GPSr can only give you bearings when you are moving. It has to "connect the dots" to see what direction you are heading. A compass, on the other hand will allways point the same direction. It is not bothered by tree cover, and will even work underground in a cave! A good compass will cost you upwards of $60 at most sporting goods stores, and if you don't already have one, I'd get one before going into the woods again. As for the on-board compass in the GPSr, it really is great for pointing at a cache when yuo're standing still. Get off the cellphone and DRIVE! Quote Link to comment
+GOT GPS? Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 My very first cache with the eTrex Vista, was just that. I got near to the cache then stopped. I then aimed the Vista to line up the arrow on the screen, while sighting the GPS like a gun sight. While I lined up the arrow on the screen, with the gps near my eye, suddenly there it was 30 feet away. Neat feature. Always different...Hit refresh Quote Link to comment
McGoal Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 $60 for a "good" compass? Are you speaking about a electronic compass? You can definately get a good silwa for a lot cheaper than that! McGoal sez, AAAAAAAAWWWWWW, now I get it! Quote Link to comment
+Bloencustoms Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I paid about $60 bucks for my Silva Ranger at a local sporting goods store. It is compensated (the needle has a counterweight) for my area, has a sighting mirror, is adjustable for declination, and has a clinometer for measuring vertical angles (good for determining rough lattitude from Polaris). I might have paid too much, but it really is a great tool. You can get a good compass with less features for less $$. Get off the cellphone and DRIVE! Quote Link to comment
+DougsBrat Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by dtrice:I have noticed that an electronic compass feature adds about $50.00 to a GPS unit. Could someone please tell me what you would use an electronic compass for and if it is worth the extra $50.00? I love the compass in my VISTA. try looking inconspicous moving about looking at your cell phone I just stand hold it level then walk that direction. searously, I like being able to take a bearing while standing still. More rules = Less fun! Quote Link to comment
kg4mrv Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I think they really help a lot. Quote Link to comment
+apersson850 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I bought the Vista for its physical size and the 24 MB map memory. When I started to do some geocaching, I found that the magnetic compass is really helpful, when you are standing at a certain location, trying to get some stable position reading. Then all the time you do have a bearing reference too, as to where your target may be located. Since the positioning varies a little, more or less depending on the conditions, observing the unit at stillstand for a while may give you a clue to the general direction of the target. Anders Quote Link to comment
+Gimpy Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 For less than $50.00, you can get a real nice stand alone compass that won't die when the batteries in your GPSR do. I think most experienced cachers & outdoors folk carry along the basic compass anyway. But if you don't mind spending the extra bucks, it's a handy feature most of the time. Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life. Quote Link to comment
+apersson850 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 All those who argue that a conventional compass does the same thing, but at a lower cost, are wrong. A regular compass can't combine the three abouts: Whereabout, wantabout and northabout. You have to do that manually, by letting the GPS figure out where you are and have it compute the bearing to the target. Then you must manually set your compass to point in that direction. The built-in magnetic compass does that for you, automatically. Doing it once now and then is no big deal, but in bad conditions, the bearing reported will vary back and forth a little, which means you have to adjust your compass all the time. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not done automatically, as it is when it's built in. Hence, a regular compass and a GPS is definitely an inferior solution, compared to the combo unit. Function-wise, that is, since the regular compass will keep on working when your batteries are dead, but now we are talking safety-wise. So, in my opinion, there is no doubt that the flux gate compass is good. If it's worth the bucks is entirely up to each and every spender. Anders Quote Link to comment
+Gimpy Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Anders:All those who argue that a conventional compass does the same thing, but at a lower cost, are wrong. A regular compass can't combine the three abouts: Whereabout, wantabout and northabout. Anders Not saying they're the same thing. That's obvious. But which is more reliable? I think it's safe to assume that most cachers are concerned with 1 about, & thats "how about getting me to the cache". Both will do that. If your gpsr bounces off a rock or loses power, it's "how about getting me back to where I started from". Only one will do that. Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life. Quote Link to comment
jfitzpat Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Gimpy, By that reasoning, why take a GPS receiver at all? My Silva Ranger and a quad map have never failed me, require no batteries, work when it is colder, and can double as tinder and a signal mirror to boot. But, a GPS is very convenient, works well in the dark, and offers fairly precise distance measuring equipment. As Anders indicated, a compass can make the device more convenient still. A built in compass directly addresses the receiver's need to infer heading based on positional sampling. Just like mapping is no real substitute for a decent printed map, a 5 or 10 degree accuracy electronic unit is no substitute for a good, seperate compass. But both can make a GPS more convenient and, I think, a little less prone to human error; since cross referencing instruments is not always easy for some people. -jjf Quote Link to comment
+Gimpy Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 More convenient? For sure. But I believe not a necessity when considering the purchase of a gpsr. Just like some of the other extras that can be found on various models. That's the point I was trying to make to dtrice. He's curious as to whether or not the additional $50.00 to have an electronic compass is worth it. Like you said, you really don't need a gpsr at all. But I think the importance of carrying a conventional compass as well can not be overstated. Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life. Quote Link to comment
+azmark Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Assuming the cache is actually hidden at the listed cooridinants. It's usually off by a bit. Electronic compassas are usually not that accurate. Save the money, buy the less expensive edition, carry the old style compass as a backup. Or buy a Magellan. With the sun/moon icons you get a pretty accurate compass as long as the sun or moon are visible. btw, you can get a bering with a GPS without moving. Quote Link to comment
+apersson850 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 It seems like we all agree upon almost everything: Built-in compass is good. Bulit-in compass costs. Conventional compass is good. Conventional compass costs too (at least my compasses do). Electronic compasses are less accurate. Less accuracy doesn't matter, since the GPS will update its position and compensate for that. Ordinary compasses doesn't run on batteries. An ordinary compass is good as a backup. Extra batteries are also good for backup. If you have no pockets, you can carry them in your legwarmers Having a compass built-in saves some thinking for the user. One may argue about whether that's good or bad? Just how often do you find yourself so far away from some kind of civilization (perhaps represented by your car), that you wouldn't find your way back even if someone snatched your GPS once you found the cache?I'm not trying to call anyone stupid, but I've yet to find a GPS in this country, where I couldn't easily walk back without any GPS, compass or whatever. Are they usually hidden so far away from any driveable road in the US, or wherever you are? Anders Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 The only advantage in geocaching I've seen for a built in compass is the standing still and still pointing correctly thing. However since I automaticly take a bearing as I'm walking if I should stop and my GPS does it's dance. It doesn't bother me. I still know where I'm going, and how far to go. That's why I don't miss a real compass or an electronic compass. (Though I carry one now because it's very hard to take a bearing on a GPS, especially if you have to be moving to see an accurate compass). There is only 1 out of 350 caches that a compass would have helped on. Quote Link to comment
Cache Canucks Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 ...seem to assume that the only reason someone would own/use a GPSr is for GeoCaching (and have gauged the value of an internal compass accordingly). GeoCaching probably makes up only 25% of the use that my Vista sees (if that), and I find the internal compass to be quite useful ...regardless of whether or not I happen to be GeoCaching at the time. Quote Link to comment
+apersson850 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Other than geocaching?? Are you implying that there is another life out there??? All right, in any case when you have a desire to take a bearing at standstill (Sight-N'-Go as Garmin calls it) or home in to a point, then the flus gate compass can be useful. Anders Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I carry a walking stick in one hand and my Vista in the other. How do people also carry and use a magnetic compass? (Off topic - Welcome back Fitz. Hope you're doing well; haven't seen you around the forums. It's nice to know someone has been getting on with their life.) Alan Quote Link to comment
+leatherman Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Staple it to the top of your walking stick. quote:Originally posted by Alan2:I carry a walking stick in one hand and my Vista in the other. How do people also carry and use a magnetic compass? Do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do. Mokita! Quote Link to comment
jfitzpat Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 FWIW, I don't generally stare at either a compass or a GPS. I periodically take a look, get my bearings, select a visible landmark, and head for it. If I was constantly looking at map, GPS, compass, etc., I wouldn't get much enjoyment out of the trip. I also wouldn't be able to keep an eye out for drunken morons in hunting caps... -jjf Unrelated to Alan2, thanks. I do try to check out the forums once in awhile, but life has been (happily) hectic for awhile. Quote Link to comment
+ScottJ Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Most electronic compasses, including Garmin's, are single-axis flux gates, which means that if you're not holding the unit precisely level, they are wildly inaccurate. I have heard that the Meridian Platinum has a true three-axis flux gate compass, so that it's accurate regardless of the orientation of the unit. Anyone have any experience with this unit or (better yet) has anyone owned or used both? I have always been fairly loyal to Garmin (I own 5 Garmin GPS's, but none with internal compasses), but this feature of the MeriPlat has me thinking of purchasing my first non-Garmin GPS. -- Scott Johnson (ScottJ) Quote Link to comment
+Searching_ut Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 quote:Rinocacher said: "I have heard that the Meridian Platinum has a true three-axis flux gate compass, so that it's accurate regardless of the orientation of the unit. Anyone have any experience with this unit or (better yet) has anyone owned or used both?" That sounds about right. The compass on the Vista or 76S need to be held level. The receiver does warn you if you aren't holding it level (Hold level warning) The Platinum works with any orientation. Either one seems to offer accuracy somewhere in the neighborhood of +/- 5 degrees or so. Quote Link to comment
Team Bohica Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Anders:Other than geocaching?? Are you implying that there is another life out there??? All right, in any case when you have a desire to take a bearing at standstill (Sight-N'-Go as Garmin calls it) or home in to a point, then the flus gate compass can be useful. Unfortunately, yes, there is another life. But in my new line of work I do have use for a GPS and the compass on my MeriPlat comes in handy. I sell ranch land in Texas. It's really handy looking at a plat map and knowing that the next corner for the property is 1,254ft that-a-way while standing on the corner marker. I always bring a compass as back up but the MeriPlat's usually does a good enough job to get me close to that next pin. Think geocaching can be tough? Try finding a 1/2" iron pin in a 25 acre plot of land that is overgrown with oak, cedar, and vines. I get to combine geocaching and metal detecting into one. -- Not Necessarily Interesting News Quote Link to comment
jfitzpat Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 According to the manufacturer's specs, the Magellan compass is actually less accurate. But, as noted, more forgiving on unit orientation. -jjf Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I own a Vista and haven't had a problem with orientation. It's natural (for me anyway) to hold it hroizontally the same way you would hold a regular compass to get a decent reading. The only time it's vertical, is when it's mounted on my windshield. There it doesn't matter because you're getting the direction from the satellites and the compass would be worthless anyway due to the car's metal. NOw te Garmin 76S might be a different story. I don't own when so maybe someone else can add their experience. But I believe the 76S is held normal vertically to get better satellite reception so you have to switch the position for the compass where the Vista get it's best reception generally from the horizontal position. Alan Quote Link to comment
+apersson850 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Neither do I, own a 76S I mean, but you are right, Alan. Optimal position for reception is vertical and for the flux gate compass it's horizontal. It may be an entirely different thing that perhaps the technically better antenna in the 76S still is more sensitive than the Vista's, in spite of using the wrong orientation. That takes some real exeperimenting to find out, I guess, by someone with access to both kinds of units. Anders Quote Link to comment
+Poindexter Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Anders:Neither do I, own a 76S I mean, but you are right, Alan. Optimal position for reception is vertical and for the flux gate compass it's horizontal. Our GPS receivers do not use a Flux Gate Compass. They use Magnetoresistive Sensors. These are microcircuits housed in SOIC's (small outline integrated circuits). Why they decided to use a 2-axis sensor as opposed to a 3-axis one in the 76S I do not know. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.