Acceptable cache locations

January 13, 2003

I am keen to hide a cache in my local area (there are none at the moment) and wondered if it was alright to put a cache in a place that the public would have to pay an entrance fee to get into.

I have seen that there is at least one cache in EPCOT in Florida so the idea isn't so strange, My area is largely urban and I can't find many places that are remote enough for a cache. Any sugesstions and advice are welcome.

January 13, 2003

Putting a cache in a PAY TO FIND area would make it a commercial cache in my way of thinking , the place where it was hidden would make money from your cache , as yet I know of no cache in the uk that is a Pay to find cache , the one you speak of in America , was going to be looked into by the site owner and removed from the site, Jeremy must have fogotten about it, it did come up on a thread either here or the USA . Dont be put off by my views though, se what the rest of the forum members think, Do you not have any parks or recreation areas near to you where a cache would be suited, Try the search Field above, there is a thread about paying to find a cache , just search under the auther who is (The4Bees) AND THE SUBJECT IS REQUESTING PUBLIC OPINION.

Nige

January 13, 2003

In general, I agree with the Northumbrian. There may be situations where I'd allow the rules to be bent if I was the approver. Certainly, Epcott should be out as far as I am concerned. There aren't many places more commercial than Disney.

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

January 13, 2003

This is a tricky one, I do know of parks etc but they are certainly hazardous and potentially dangerous, I wouldnt want a geocacher being mugged or sticking themselves with a discarded hypodermic in the parks that I have knowledge of.

I'll have to think some more about this. Thanks for the input.

January 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 101325:
My area is largely urban

There are several very sucessful urban caches. The usual rules to cache planting apply: Find the right location, which is somewhere that people enjoy visiting but would not usually find without (your) local knowledge, and then look hard to find a way to hide it.

Think small (film canister?), perhaps cammoflagued, perhaps an unusual way of hiding the cache?

Enjoy it ...... this is a good part of the fun of cache hiding.

Dave

January 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Northumbrian:
Putting a cache in a PAY TO FIND area would make it a commercial cache in my way of thinking , the place where it was hidden would make money from your cache , as yet I know of no cache in the uk that is a Pay to find cache

In fact there is.

"Station X"

Entrance fee about six quid.

I know this since it is one of the nearest caches to me. I'm only two miles up the road from Bletchley Park. (still haven't done it though.....)

So does this mean it should be archived?

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

January 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:
Certainly, Epcott should be out as far as I am concerned. There aren't many places more commercial than Disney.

So you think that anyone who wasn't going to visit EPCOT anyway, would be tempted to pay $50 just to go looking for a cache?

Having recently done three caches in there, one virtual (a gimme), one virtual (a great one that took us to a part of the park that we would otherwise never have visited) and a VERY challenging micro, my view is that they just added to the experience. I was going there anyway. With or without the caches. The fact that there were caches in there just added to the fun of things. The caches that are in Orlando amusement parks have had over 400 hits which speaks for itself. The tourists go there anyway, and the locals all have dirt cheap annual tickets.

Disney turned over $22,000,000,000 last year of which I reckon geocachers contributed less than $4000, well maybe $6000 if they all got nailed for the 20 bucks for a picture of the kids with Mickey Mouse Banning caches from Disney property really would hit them hard. NOT.

We have done caches in France, the USA, Italy and the UK that required either an admission fee, equipment hire fee or a carking fee/permit. I really don't care.

It's a matter of choice. As with a lot of caches, if you don't like it - don't do it. But don't deny the chance for others to have fun,

January 13, 2003

When you post after just coming back from the pub.

Make sure you click the right bloody icons!!!!

Sorry about the duplicates.

1k · January 13, 2003

Crikey watch out! drunk person on the loose! LoL

How hard is it though??? Well you just try writing in a log book at Hornets Hide 1 cache when you have had a skinfull! never a good plan. LoL

--------------------------------------------------------

One ring to rule them all, One ring to find them, One ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them!

www.buckscaching.co.uk

January 13, 2003

Just wondering if car-park charges count as "paying to visit a cache"?

I agree with Slytherin: if you're going there anyway, what does it matter? It can only add to the experience, and it isn'tlike there aren't plenty of other caches around...

Anyway, 101325, what about doing a virtual cache? Just find somewhere historical with a few plaques dotted around town and build a series of clues from that (see the excellent "The Walls" by Rincewind & Luggage). This means you don't actually have to hide anything...

It's a tradition, or an old charter or something...

January 14, 2003

posted by The Northumbrian

quote:
as yet I know of no cache in the uk that is a Pay to find cache

The Dalby Forest caches are in an area with a toll road. Four quid to enter. Unless there is a nearer place to park than the four miles away spot I found, I reckon that makes it a pay to find.

naffita

January 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by naffita:
The Dalby Forest caches are in an area with a toll road. Four quid to enter. Unless there is a nearer place to park than the four miles away spot I found, I reckon that makes it a pay to find.

naffita

Isn't there an icon which lets people know that the cache might need you to spend some money, like parking fees, entrance fees, Tolls etc. ?

Or am I thinking of another site?

Either way, if it's not this site, how about putting something in the description about any money that you might need to pay to get to the cache, the seekers can then decide whether they still want to go.

After all, however you get there, you will have to buy fuel, pay a fare, or spend money on boot leather, so someone is gaining from your visit.

--... ...--

Morseman

January 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Slytherin:

So you think that anyone who wasn't going to visit EPCOT anyway, would be tempted to pay $50 just to go looking for a cache?

Having recently done three caches in there, one virtual (a gimme), one virtual (a great one that took us to a part of the park that we would otherwise never have visited) and a VERY challenging micro, my view is that they just added to the experience.

I did say that I would be prepared to bend the rules in some situations. Anyway, the guidelines are very clear on the subject:

quote:
What is a commercial cache? A commercial use of the web site cache reporting tool is an direct or indirect (either intentional or non-intentional) attempt to solicit customers through a geocaching.com listing. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

I submit that Epcot is a "for profit location that requires an entrance fee". These caches would not be acceptable if placed now. However, the guidelines also say that caches placed before the rule came in are OK.

The implication of the above is that a not for profit location with an entrance fee is OK e.g. National Trust sites (assuming the NT lets you place the cache).

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

1.4k · January 14, 2003

quote:
as yet I know of no cache in the uk that is a Pay to find cache

We have This cache which is.

Chris

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

January 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Chris n Maria:

quote:
as yet I know of no cache in the uk that is a Pay to find cache

We have http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=24314 which is.

Chris

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

I wouln'd class that as a commercial type cache, more than likely the money raised from the very small entrance fee goes towards the upkeep of the Castle for us all to enjoy, I suppose its no different than paying a small entrance fee to park a car if your visiting an area, say like Bolam lake in Northumberland. the money is plouged back into the location. and on the mention of Bolam lake Nr Belsay. someone has reported a Yetti type creature roaming the park. Now there a lot of Yetti hunters arrived at the park to look for Droppings and hair samples.

Some people will believe anything if they see it in the press,Two Fishermen reported it as having been hanging around in the bushes while they were fishing , I wonder if were carrying hip flasks

I may go over on Sunday , if nothing else , just to laugh at these boffins

Nige , Who hasn't yet been to the pub.

1.4k · January 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Northumbrian:
I wouln'd class that as a commercial type cache, more than likely the money raised from the very small entrance fee goes towards the upkeep of the Castle for us all to enjoy, I suppose its no different than paying a small entrance fee to park a car if your visiting an area, say like Bolam lake in Northumberland. the money is plouged back into the location.

Exactly our attitude to entrance fees - just wanted to check we wern't upsetting anyone.

Chris

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

January 14, 2003

There's this one too.

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

January 14, 2003

quote:
The Dalby Forest caches are in an area with a toll road. Four quid to enter.

You should have gone in winter.... its only £1.50 out of season! (we were up there a couple of weeks ago... luckily before the snow!)

Paul

Team Blitz

White gravel? What white gravel? I can't see any.... heck, who cares!

January 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team Blitz:
You should have gone in winter.... its only £1.50 out of season! (we were up there a couple of weeks ago... luckily before the snow!)

...and if you come in the back way, you might not even have to pay at all.

Just about everyone takes the clockwise route, so they don't bother to have anyone at the gate at the other end.

Not as much fun as EPCOT though. Then again, I know how to get in there for free too.

-

January 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:

What is a commercial cache? A commercial use of the web site cache reporting tool is an direct or indirect (either intentional or non-intentional) attempt to solicit customers through a geocaching.com listing. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

You could interpret that to mean a cache planted by someone for their own commercial gain.

ie Disney planting a cache in Epcott equals commercial equals immoral. However fan of geocaching plants a cache in a park he loves to visit and wants to share with others is not immoral, and can hardly be called commercial as there is no financial gain to the cacher.

I say go ahead and place caches in pay parks.

I have two choices open to me. Go or don't go! It is really that simple.

(Plus if I were out for a day in say a theme park I might jump at the chance of taxing the cells doing a multi virtual)

I woke this morning and my boat was not rocking...for one horrid moment I thought I lived in a house!

January 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Merman:

quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:

What is a commercial cache? A commercial use of the web site cache reporting tool is an direct or indirect (either intentional or non-intentional) attempt to solicit customers through a geocaching.com listing. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

You could interpret that to mean a cache planted by someone for their own commercial gain.

I think the word "non-intentional" covers the situation that currently applies at Epcot. I think the rule is pretty clear and leaves very little room for "interpretation". I concede that nobody is going to pay $50 just to do a geocache in Epcot, but it might sway them to spend $50 to get into Epcot rather than, say, Univeral Studios.

quote:
I say go ahead and place caches in pay parks.

I have two choices open to me. Go or don't go! It is really that simple.

Yes, but as I have discussed above, that would currently contravene the rules. Whether the rule is right in all circumstances is another matter.

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

January 15, 2003

Before posting this, We have waited for some replies to come in so that we can more accurately guage the feelings amongst UK cachers on this subject. Thanks for your feedback.

The Rules do say that if an entrance fee is required, the cache will not be approved.

However, because parking in the UK invariably involves a fee at any point of interest, we tend to let that go, within reason.

If a cache says "Go into Hilda's cafe, buy a cuppa and ask her for the box" there is no chance of getting it approved.

Where it comes to a fee for a park etc, we have to be a little more careful, we must not create a precedent that will be quoted by a cacher in the USA, for example. It's true to say that some caches do slip through the net (and get approved when they shouln't) but to be fair, when we (Tim & June) approve caches, we try to be a little more temperate and use some common sense.

I suggest that if you have a cache location which you are not quite sure about, email us with the details, we will try to help you make it fit in, and therefore approve it.

Tim & June (Winchester)

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong !

January 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:
It's true to say that some caches do slip through the net (and get approved when they shouln't) but to be fair, when we (Tim & June) approve caches, we try to be a little more temperate and use some common sense.

Common sense is the key. The guidelines are open to interpretation. I "choose" to read them the same as The Merman and that as long as someone doesn't place a cache for personal gain then it is OK.

Groundspeak are well aware of the Orlando caches and must be OK with them as they are not all old & established. Some of them have only been approved in the last couple of months. I take Jeremy's point about EPCOT, but there are caches in all of the Orlando parks as far as I can remember. I suppose 90% of people who visit Orlando are going to the parks anyway, so it isn't that much of a big deal.

As far as parking charges go, usually the amount is minimal but I know of at least one cache that we did in Minnesota that required the purchase of a state-wide annual parking permit ($30 I think) to park. We were with a local resident at the time who had bought one so I guess we were lucky on that one.

I suppose it still boils down to "if you don't like it - don't do it". Just like virtuals and locationless.

1.4k · January 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:
If a cache says "Go into Hilda's cafe, buy a cuppa and ask her for the box" there is no chance of getting it approved.

So this shouldn't have been approved?

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

January 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Chris n Maria:
So http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=13898 shouldn't have been approved?

I have to say that this one is the dodgyiest cache that we have done, regarding "commercial aspects".

Having said that, we were lucky that the place was open and Stallion is a really nice bloke, but to be fair even though it was established a long time ago, I still would support it being archived.

Alex.

3.8k · January 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 101325:

My area is largely urban and I can't find many places that are remote enough for a cache. Any sugesstions and advice are welcome.

Grassy hills, wooded slopes and awesome views aren't compulsory... Don't be put off setting a cache in an urban environment just because it isn't green and pretty. It's true that for some geocachers a pleasant walk in the country is the main thing but there are still some poor, demented souls out there who consider the challenge of the cache to be the main thing irrespective of the environment.

I set a multi-cache a couple of months ago that is, for the most part, in very urban surroundings. True, only three logs have so far been entered, but the feed back indicates that the geocachers who've attempted it found it both enjoyable and challenging. It was also the first cache I'd set so like I've said... Don't be put off by the lack of a 'remote' site... Just go for it

John

January 15, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Chris n Maria:
So http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=13898 shouldn't have been approved?

No I guess it should no. To be fair to the guy who approved it, it is difficult to tell from the description that it is so blatantly commercial. The placer of the cache has never found any caches at all.

I have asked for guidance from above as to what we should do with it now.

Tim & June (Winchester)

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong !

January 16, 2003

This is an area of some confusion and debate as is obvious from the traffic on this thread. I got in touch with the Rangers in my local park and they are happy for me to cache in the park and will help scout out suitable locations. I think it might even get some publicity for the Hobby.

When placed, the notes will point out that this cache is best done early in the day and probably best avoided in evenings etc, I think the grading system should help geocachers decide on it's suitability. I am very pleased to see so many posts and views as this suggests a very active and involved community. Thanks for all the input.

January 16, 2003

It appears from your last post that it is a country park that charges a fee when you drive in, is that right?

There are several down here in Hampshire that do just that and they have proved very popular.

I would never call that a commercial cache or half the ones in the States would have to be removed.

I woke this morning and my boat was not rocking...for one horrid moment I thought I lived in a house!

January 17, 2003

It is actually a local safari park. I live quite near and have a season ticket for myself and family.

Those of you that have known the poignant loneliness of seaside towns in the winter will understand the special nature of a safari park in February. It is a unique atmosphere, rides shut down, animals almost dormant, lakes of geese, frozen ducks, I dont want to be accused of commercialism so I won't go on. Simply a place that I go to a lot with family, and I felt a cache would enhance the visit for a certain group of people. I will put one in I think and see how it goes. Good luck to you all, I won't put it in with the Lions.

January 18, 2003

quote:
Good luck to you all, I won't put it in with the Lions.

Dan and Pid are going to be soooo disappointed

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

January 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 101325:
I will put one in I think and see how it goes.

Earlier in this thread, the virtuals and micro's in Florida parks were brought up as a precedent. There have been rumblings going on for some time over the placing of caches in these circumstances and we would be foolish to ignore what we are being told by those above us.

Firstly, a brief history for those who do not know. A while ago, all the caches placed worldwide were approved by people in the USA. UK caches were often rejected as too commercial becuse they mentioned something like "Call in at the Bull and Bush pub for a nice pint when you have found this cache". Discussing pubs is of course, as British as discussing the weather, or drinking tea.

Anyway, representation was made to Jeremy Irish (who owns the site) and he finally gave the UK moderators, Admin status so they could approve UK caches. We do not want to loose that facility and I'm sure Jeremy is keeping a weather eye on our performance.

In an earlier post I said "I suggest that if you have a cache location which you are not quite sure about, email us with the details, we will try to help you make it fit in, and therefore approve it." Believe me, we really do want to approve your and anybody elses cache, but please do not make it difficult.

I think I know which safari park you have in mind and whilst I have not visited, OS maps do seem to suggest that there are areas nearby which would be suitable outside the park. This would mean that cachers could visit the cache without having to visit the park but still can if they wish to.

Incidentally, over the past 6 months there have been 20,000 caches submitted (worldwide) so it is no surprise that a few slip through.

Tim & June (Winchester)

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong !

January 18, 2003

There will be no cache in a pay to enter site.

The sites I have enjoyed visiting so far have been free to enter and I would want that ethic to continue. Thanks for all your views.

January 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 101325:
...lakes of geese, frozen ducks,

..when I want frozen ducks, I generally go to Tesco, where you don't need a season ticket to get in....

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

1.8k · February 2, 2003

Having visited your First in Knowsley, I think you were right to avoid the Safari Park though I can think of a site within a few hundred yards of it where it seems that the local car thieves take their booty to strip them of saleable contents - now a cache there might attract the interest of the law!

Acceptable cache locations

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation