+Teasel Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Well, for better or worse, the new trigpoint logging system, TrigpointingUK, is open for business! There are bound to be some bugs and there are still a few things still on the todo list, but most of it is in place. Many thanks to all the people who helped with the testing and also to Mark for providing server space. Cheers, Ian Quote Link to comment
Ben Pid Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Bloomin 'eck this was Dan not Pid! (Please make a delete option! ) Wow - thats so impressive. Will our finds be noted on the geocaching.com page or just geocacheuk? I will be finding my first trig tomorrow on the way to a cache so should be fun. Thanx! -------------------------------------------------------- www.buckscaching.co.uk Did I hear a rustling over there Dan? Nope its just young Dean! www.buckscaching.co.uk Quote Link to comment
+poshandbecks Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Nice site, have logged our finds but still unsure about having a duplicate trigpoint site. Also noted that the site uses a different numbering method for the waypoints than jeremyp. All our trig waypoints use jeremyp's numbers and if he pulls his site offline as hinted in a previous thread then we will be forced into changing all the waypoints to be compatable with this site. Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 As I understand it jeremy will keep his site online for as long as it is useful to people, so don't worry about it suddenly vanishing. Rich mobilis in mobili Quote Link to comment
+John Stead Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 This is brilliant - thanks Teasel for setting it up, and to jeremyp for his site too. My big worry now is my divorce - my wife (rightly) thought I was obsessed with Geocaches, now if I stop evry time we pass a Trigpoint there may be trouble! Quote Link to comment
+Teasel Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 quote:Originally posted by poshandbecks:Also noted that the site uses a different numbering method for the waypoints than jeremyp. All our trig waypoints use jeremyp's numbers and if he pulls his site offline as hinted in a previous thread then we will be forced into changing all the waypoints to be compatable with this site. The entries in my trigpoint table were produced by merging five (soon to be six) separate sources of data, and attempting to remove duplicates where appropriate. At the end of this process, the waypoint names were assigned such that the number is the same as the ID of the table row (same as GC.com do, except they use hex, rather than decimal). Jeremy's waypoint names come from Chris&Maria's file, which contains duplicates eg see UKTP0009 and UKTP0010 (Not a criticism - I'd put money on there being lots of duplicates in my database too! Removing them is harder than it may at first appear!). Duplicates aren't a problem for the merging process, but it would cause problems if I'd tried to align the two numbering systems. To have ensured that the trigpoint numbers in my database were similar to Chris&Maria's numbers where appropriate would have been very difficult, and there are at least four other naming schemes out there as well as Chris&Maria's (though, naturally, C&M's are the best known within the geocaching community). All in all, it seemed a lot less work to come up with a new numbering scheme. The rights and wrongs of creating T:UK have been discussed before and I don't intend to get drawn into that. However, for anyone wishing to double-log their finds, the logging systems of both sites work by grid reference, so there should be little difficulty. Quote Link to comment
Morseman Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Teasel: Jeremy's waypoint names come from Chris&Maria's file, which contains duplicates eg see UKTP0009 and UKTP0010 (Not a criticism - I'd put money on there being lots of duplicates in my database too! Removing them is harder than it may at first appear!). Duplicates aren't a problem for the merging process, but it would cause problems if I'd tried to align the two numbering systems. To have ensured that the trigpoint numbers in my database were similar to Chris&Maria's numbers where appropriate would have been very difficult, and there are at least four other naming schemes out there as well as Chris&Maria's (though, naturally, C&M's are the best known within the geocaching community). All in all, it seemed a _lot_ less work to come up with a new numbering scheme. One problem I found with the "UKTPxxxx" format was that my Garmin GPSIII+ cut the last two numbers off, which meant that I had to keep swaping about when trig points had the same first two numbers. It wasn't a great problem, but I did have to keep a track of what the real numbers were when I reloaded points I'd already visited. --... ...-- Morseman Quote Link to comment
+jeremyp Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I've decided to keep my site up and maybe even improve it. Unfortunately, this whole thing has really soured my view about geocaching in general and I probably won't be attending any events in the near future due to a childish desire to punch Teasel's lights out, sorry. ------- jeremyp The second ten million caches were the worst too. http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching Quote Link to comment
+John Stead Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I'm really sorry to read Jeremy's comments and while I understand his reaction hope he will be reconciled to the Geocaching fraternity as he has contributed a lot for which I for one am most grateful. At the same time I don't retract my earlier remarks re Teasel's site. Quote Link to comment
MCL Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by jeremyp:Unfortunately, this whole thing has really soured my view about geocaching in general and I probably won't be attending any events in the near future due to a childish desire to punch Teasel's lights out, sorry. Absolutely right. Childish is the word. What on earth has Teasel's and/or TheCat's trigpointing got to do with the rest of us here on GC.COM? You have decided to allow your prejudice against two people running a site not affiliated to GC.COM to govern your relationship with dozens of other people here on GC.COM. You might just as well say that because you don't like what the Mod Ants do on their site, that you are not going to patronise the National Trust any more! While we may or may not have sympathy with your postion over the trigpointing site, to take out your chagrin on the rest of us is just nuts, and some people might even consider it offensive. If I were Jeremy Irish, I might be asking you one question at this point: What has it got to do with me? Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by MCL:While we may or may not have sympathy with your postion over the trigpointing site, to take out your chagrin on the rest of us is just nuts, and some people might even consider it offensive. If I were Jeremy Irish, I might be asking you one question at this point: What has it got to do with me? Where is Jeremyp taking out his chagrin on the rest of us? He has just stated that his view of geocaching has been soured. There is no offensive remark aimed at the rest of us. Calm down MCL. Rich mobilis in mobili Quote Link to comment
+Kouros Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 MCL - I don't think JeremyP's comments were towards the community in general, just rather that he doesn't desire to run into Teasel by accident, hence not attending any events. Just how I understood his comment, is all. ------ An it harm none, do what ye will Quote Link to comment
MCL Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 quote:MCL - I don't think JeremyP's comments were towards the community in general, Well I suppose I looked at jeremy's words "this whole thing has really soured my view about geocaching in general " and thought the term "geocaching in general" rather suggested the community in general but maybe I'm wrong. Lets analyse it: If "geocaching in general" does not mean the same as "The community in general" then presumably it means "everything else except the community in general" But what else is there outside of the community? There is really only the hobby as practiced by individuals who work alone or in pairs. And people who have nothing to do with this site. Now, by logical inference you are implying that Jeremy's view of this part of geocaching has been soured. I have to ask how come? Why would his view of the sport as practiced on an individual basis be soured? Or his view of the sport as played by people who none of us have ever heard of, because they are outside this general community. There are two possibilities here: (i) His view of these anonymous players and the whole practice of finding caches independantly has been soured, or (ii) it hasn't. If (i) then I ask my question again "What has it got to do with us? why mention it on a forum on here? " If (ii) then I still ask "why say it on here?" The only reason Jeremy would have for mentioning his soured view of things is if it is relevant to us in here, and if as you say its not the "community in general", or "caching in general" that he is peed off with then why say it? His actions and the supposed meaning of the words he wrote simply don't logically stack up against each other. Thats what made me query. I'm quite calm about it, really I am. No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.... Quote Link to comment
+Firth of Forth Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Message for Teasel. Am relatively new to geocaching etc (& dont havea GPS), but today on a walk near the Crinan Canal daughter and I found a trig point. I downloaded the 1000 list compatible with Microsoft Autoroute from your trigpointing website, to find it not there. Is this because the list is incomplete or some other reason? Also couldnt access the forum page of your website, hence the message on this page (a few of the links dont seem to work). Is there an easy way for me to log the trig point without having a GPS? Quote Link to comment
Slytherin Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Firth of Forth:Message for Teasel. Am relatively new to geocaching etc (& dont havea GPS), but today on a walk near the Crinan Canal daughter and I found a trig point. What was the plate number? Alex. --------------------------------------------------- Knights of the Green Shield stamp and shout..... Quote Link to comment
+Firth of Forth Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Unfortunately, being new to this game I didnt know to look for one; only when I got home did I think about finding out about it. It is marked on the OS map of the area though. Quote Link to comment
+Teasel Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 quote:Am relatively new to geocaching etc (& dont havea GPS), but today on a walk near the Crinan Canal daughter and I found a trig point. I downloaded the 1000 list compatible with Microsoft Autoroute from your trigpointing website, to find it not there. Is this because the list is incomplete or some other reason? Also couldnt access the forum page of your website, hence the message on this page (a few of the links dont seem to work). Is there an easy way for me to log the trig point without having a GPS? A GPS certainly isn't necessary for trigpointing - to log the find, just click "log a find" and type in the OS grid reference of the trigpoint (eg SK235045). Since trigpoints are generally widely spaced, you don't need to be very accurate with your grid reference. If you've got a decent map, the old triangulation pillars (the familiar 4' high concrete monuments which are the definitive "trigpoints") really shouldn't need a GPS to find! Some of the newer passive stations (little rivets in the middle of an overgrown grass verge) are fiendishly difficult to find even with a GPS, so you're probably best printing out the photos from the OS site (there's a link there from the trigpoint details page). To answer your original question, though, it's because the database is incomplete. There is no definitive list of all UK trigpoints - part of the reason for running the site is to create one. The current database was constructed by merging six separate data sources, and there is a seventh and eighth in the pipeline which should fill in a few more of the gaps. If the grid reference you enter when trying to log a find is not sufficiently close to a known trigpoint, you will be given the option of adding a new trigpoint to the database. Quote Link to comment
+Firth of Forth Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Thanks Teasel. I'll put it in with OS coordinates. Quote Link to comment
Fellwanderer Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Firth of Forth:Thanks Teasel. I'll put it in with OS coordinates. My guess is that it was Dundardry. Quote Link to comment
+paul.blitz Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 quote: Since trigpoints are generally widely spaced, When I looked at your trigpoint map, that struck me straight away... but then I realised that, given what they are for, you'd EXPECT them to be widely and evenly spaced. Mind you, its interesting how in some places there are a lot around (loads in Hampshire, but also loads of hills) but few in others (the York area has almost none... its very flat!) quote:Some of the newer passive stations (little rivets in the middle of an overgrown grass verge) I've seen those rivets in paths on quite a few occasions. Are they all "formal" trig points, or are they often just "temporary intermediate points"? Paul Quote Link to comment
+Firth of Forth Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Yes, it was Dunardry, it's mispelt on the website. Quote Link to comment
+Teasel Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team Blitz:I've seen those rivets in paths on quite a few occasions. Are they all "formal" trig points, or are they often just "temporary intermediate points"? There are lots of rivets around the place, put there for some survey or another. The only ones which T:UK counts as "trigpoints" are those which are (or were) part of the OS "passive network", and whose exact coordinates are regularly monitored and made available on the OS website. Quote Link to comment
+Teasel Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 D'Oh - read the original post Ian! (message removed!) Quote Link to comment
DeputyDawg Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Originally posted by Firth of Forth:Yes, it was Dunardry, it's mispelt on the website.[Think your doing well w/o gps, and think there maybe potential or interest in 'collecting' same....please enlighten or give me your views?..Hey!..DD /QUOTE] Quote Link to comment
+Firth of Forth Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 The interest in 'collecting' these may be that they are generally on high ground, so if hillwalking is a prefered pasttime, they provide a good excuse. And if they are pillars, hard to miss, and therefore better for those of us without a GPS. Quote Link to comment
MCL Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 <blinks> ..you mean there are people *without* a GPSr? Quote Link to comment
+Firth of Forth Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Probably not many I guess, but its still possible to geocache plotting coordinates on multimap, decoding hints, being on the alert for likely hiding spots etc. I'm more interested in visiting scenic spots and the geocache locations provide ideas for good walks, as do trigpoint pillars. I may have to team up occasionally with a GPS owner if I want to be really serious about geocaching. Geocaching gives boys a good excuse to buy a new toy to play with, maybe girls have better things to spend their money on? Quote Link to comment
DeputyDawg Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Hey!!...Have got to agree with you FoF, in the same way that hillwalkers and climbers collect 'Munros' and 'Corbetts'.. Then why not if the're there?, gives a reason for a nice walk/hike etc!!...checked the stats on Trigpointing UK, and there are a lot out there still to be 'claimed' (if thats the word)...am off to get some in as soon as I get a chance!! Have some nice ones near here, looking out to sea, and must remember to take camera. Am not sure if you can add many comments, re access, terrain, view etc., that would helpful to others thinking of visiting...might be useful!. Happy hunting anyway, or am I sad? DD Quote Link to comment
+Teasel Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 quote:Originally posted by DeputyDawg:Am not sure if you can add many comments, re access, terrain, view etc., that would helpful to others thinking of visiting...might be useful!. Please add any extra comments you feel like, especially if they'll help others. For example, you might not want to go out of your way to visit this trigpoint. As well as the comments, please fill in an overall score for the experience of finding (or not finding!) the trigpoint. In future, I hope to include the average score in the search criteria and trigpoint lists. As for photos, the more the merrier! When I go hillwalking with a group of friends, we often take a group photo of everyone on/around the summit trigpoint. So don't feel restricted to the (fb, pillar, view) triplet of photos... GeocacheUK - resources for the UK Geocaching community. Quote Link to comment
DeputyDawg Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Thanks Teasel, Will bear it in mind!!! p.s all the best re Trig UK etc!!..fully appreciate and support you and the cats efforts! Regards DeputyDawg Quote Link to comment
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